Weapons & Equip The magnet flower feels somewhat useless

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octability

Terrarian
It's as the title says; the magnet flower is useless when I can just equip Celestial Cuffs and a Mana Flower for a superior effect. Is there some way we can combine these crafting trees? 🤔
 
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Among mana-related accessories I cannot consider magnet flower useless.
Arcane flower is however questionable as an upgrade of its ingredients since it doesn't inherit damage and crit bonuses from putrid scent.
 
I would say that the Mana Flower itself is useless really. You can bind a "quick mana" key, and that way you don't drink extra mana potions when you don't really need to -- whereas Mana Flower will always force the player to guzzle a mana potion when they're out of mana. Generally though, even for that I would recommend just using Mana Regeneration Potions, as you don't get any debuff from using those, and mana recovery only takes a second or two (as opposed to 5-10 seconds of less damage dealt).

I do agree that the Celestial Cuffs or Celestial Emblem are better if you need the magnet effect, and then you can do whatever else on the side. If mana flower could be made to be like.. not bad, I think that would resolve this issue quite well. Maybe mana potions used by it have a lesser negative effect, or maybe it has a regeneration effect of some sort, or hell I think it'd even be interesting to make the Mana Flower (or an upgrade thereof) recover a small amount of the player's mana when they hit an enemy.

I guess an option is just to make Mana Flower effect toggle-able, and maybe make the upgrades' effects different? The only really okay Mana Flower upgrade is the cloak, Arcane Flower (as mentioned above) doesn't keep crit/damage stats, and Magnet Flower is reasonably easy to replace with Celestial Cuffs.
 
R3verse said:
as you say is's a superior effect for the price of an accessory slot.
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Thats the thing, if you wanted both effects it would cost two slots anyway

I feel as though the logical conclusion is to have something that combines the two, given both trees involve the celestial magnet.

Stardust9681 said:
I would say that the Mana Flower itself is useless really. You can bind a "quick mana" key, and that way you don't drink extra mana potions when you don't really need to -- whereas Mana Flower will always force the player to guzzle a mana potion when they're out of mana. Generally though, even for that I would recommend just using Mana Regeneration Potions, as you don't get any debuff from using those, and mana recovery only takes a second or two (as opposed to 5-10 seconds of less damage dealt).

I do agree that the Celestial Cuffs or Celestial Emblem are better if you need the magnet effect, and then you can do whatever else on the side. If mana flower could be made to be like.. not bad, I think that would resolve this issue quite well. Maybe mana potions used by it have a lesser negative effect, or maybe it has a regeneration effect of some sort, or hell I think it'd even be interesting to make the Mana Flower (or an upgrade thereof) recover a small amount of the player's mana when they hit an enemy.

I guess an option is just to make Mana Flower effect toggle-able, and maybe make the upgrades' effects different? The only really okay Mana Flower upgrade is the cloak, Arcane Flower (as mentioned above) doesn't keep crit/damage stats, and Magnet Flower is reasonably easy to replace with Celestial Cuffs.
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I could agree to an extent, but the mana flower is very convenient for me and many, many others. Though as far as im aware, the cloak has far superior combinations.
 
imo, it's actually the cuffs that are useless. If you need mana flower (say, playing on mobile/console, don't want to use quick mana, or using last prism), magnet flower is a meaningful upgrade in pre-hardmode (granted, celestial emblem is better once you can make that but that's what shimmer decrafting is for). Mana cloak is only "good" if you already have celestial emblem since at least it does something over the regular flower. The problem with the cuffs is you never plan for them to go off (sure it's nice getting a full mana refill when almost out, but that NEVER happens). Especially on higher difficulties, if you are taking enough hits to get value out of the cuffs you kind of just die.
 
chewythebigblackdog said:
imo, it's actually the cuffs that are useless. If you need mana flower (say, playing on mobile/console, don't want to use quick mana, or using last prism), magnet flower is a meaningful upgrade in pre-hardmode (granted, celestial emblem is better once you can make that but that's what shimmer decrafting is for). Mana cloak is only "good" if you already have celestial emblem since at least it does something over the regular flower. The problem with the cuffs is you never plan for them to go off (sure it's nice getting a full mana refill when almost out, but that NEVER happens). Especially on higher difficulties, if you are taking enough hits to get value out of the cuffs you kind of just die.
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There's merit to this, I hear you -- cuffs aren't exactly the greatest either, and as far as OP's comment goes, yeah the emblem should almost certainl be used over cuffs if you need the magnet effect.
Mana Flower I just think is much worse right now. Sure, there are a couple small situations where it may be helpful -- Last Prism eats too much mana for some players to reliably use mana keybind -- but overall I would say that automatically consuming mana potions will always be a downgrade. Remember that mana potions inflict a debuff that lasts for 5-10 seconds (reapplications will extend the duration to a max of 10 sec), and the debuff reduces your damage by X%, where X equals the buff duration multiplied by 5.
Now, if some players want that, that's fine, but I don't think it should so much be a forced effect of the accessory, maybe something that can be turned on by config, maybe something that can be toggled as a part of the accessory itself, really anything else. The issue I see is that competent players will be able to do the same thing that flower does.. without the effects of the flower, which then negates its whole purpose.

So maybe we can address really all of the mage accessories here. There aren't many, which is really a tragedy in and of itself.
I'm fully content to leave mana flower to config -- much like what was done with autoreuse (since it's just pressing a button over and over), maybe we can give some other meaningful effect to mana flower and/or its upgrades. Meanwhile, what do you think should be changed about cuffs and/or cloak, if anything, since you seem rather opposed to those two?
 
Auto consuming potions isn't a downgrade compared to manual, it just does it with perfect timing. The only time that manual may be better is when your weapon consumes so much mana that it goes to the 50-25% decrease stage, but this does not happen with super mana potions (unless using last prism or, get this, meteor staff). It's probably a slight increase in damage as it avoids poor timing. The main issue with dedicated mana accessories is that they just aren't meaningful damage increases. The magnet is definitely the best case for mana accessories as it can give quite a bit of mana during invasions and general gameplay. However, with basically all hardmode weapons, even infinite mana is roughly a 10% damage increase (then again, it is multiplicative so that's not bad). In pre-hardmode, mana potions suck, so the magnet (or upgrades) becomes worth running on its own, especially vs. wall of flesh. This post is really detailed in reviewing mana options (there's a short summary at the end) and concludes the same. Honestly, if mana flower got a tinker that provided a slight damage/crit buff (maybe like 5-10%) it would feel less bad to use. For cuffs, you'd probably need a total rework (not sure exactly what would be reasonable).
 
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