Items you think are overrated?

MechaDasÜberGoober said:
Full meteorite armor's not very good, IMO.
Using just the pants, a diamond robe/mystic robe and a wizard's hat is better.
Also space gun's just... Bad.
Click to expand...
Ever since the nerf to the wizard set, wizard's hat + diamond robe is just straight up worse than meteor in every way (less damage and less defence, and +mana and mana usage reduction are bad). If you have mystic robe, it's more worthwhile, but even then you are trading off 5 defence (plus free space gun) for ~9% extra damage. The free space gun (at least if you are doing mage only) is a much better damage increase than that, since while it isn't a great weapon by itself, you can shoot it while your mana regeneration potion (which you should be using for pre-hardmode bosses) restores your mana, giving you okay damage when you'd ordinarily have none. Wizard set is still solid during earlygame though.

SilkyVol2 said:
What is in place of your Mana Cloak?
Click to expand...
I feel like I can weigh in here too. I use mana potions via hotkey, so I also won't use a mana flower tinker. I don't really use much in place of a mana cloak (probably just an offensive or defensive accessory), since accessories solely devoted to mana restoration are bad once you have greater (or super) mana potions. If I'm using a mana cloak, it's because I am using last prism or laser machinegun (since on those weapons there's a fairly significant consequence for drinking a potion too late). I'd swap out my weakest damage accessory for it.

In pre-hardmode there's more merit to using a mana restoration accessory (mainly a celestial magnet tinker), since pre-hardmode mana potions aren't worth using. My approach is to use celestial cuffs in pre-hardmode (since magic cuffs are better than a mana flower if you aren't using mana potions, though the difference isn't too large).

When I'm in hardmode (but before defeating all the mechs) I'll probably not use any magnet tinker at all, though it's a bit less set in stone since early hardmode tends to have a lot of open accessory slots, so maybe I'll keep the cuffs on. Once I unlock celestial emblem, I switch to that as my magnet tinker and skip out on any additional mana restoration accessories (barring the 2 exceptions I mentioned earlier). As for where I get my second magnet to go from cuffs to emblem, I don't need one. I can simply toss my celestial cuffs into the shimmer to recover the magnet, and then make the emblem.

tl;dr mana restoration accessories as a whole are overrated (besides the celestial magnet, since it is solid during pre-hardmode and actually has good tinkers for hardmode). If you need to use a mana flower to drink potions, then that's really the only reason you should have one (though I do recommend you at least try out quick mana).
 
Last edited:
Dapling said:
Uzi: 37 damage x 4% crit chance x 6.67 hits per second = 256.5 dps.
Megashark: 32 damage x 4% crit chance x 8.57 hits per second = 285.3 dps.
Megashark has around 12% more base dps than Uzi, and this gap increases with better ammo damage due to its higher firerate. An entire Avenger Emblem worth of increased damage MINIMUM is not “exactly the same”
One is a quite rare drop from an enemy in the most difficult biome in the game.
The other is made of drops from a boss so ridiculously trivial to kill that people call literal normal kills of it cheese, and it’s summoned with incredibly common materials.

Learn to back up your points.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure the uzi is also far more inaccurate, making the difference in numbers more apart in realistic combat than doing simple calculations.

No, never mind, I just viewed it in combat and it’s not as inaccurate as I remember, though I do believe it’s not as accurate as the mega shark.
 
chewythebigblackdog said:
Ever since the nerf to the wizard set, wizard's hat + diamond robe is just straight up worse than meteor in every way (less damage and less defence, and +mana and mana usage reduction are bad). If you have mystic robe, it's more worthwhile, but even then you are trading off 5 defence (plus free space gun) for ~9% extra damage. The free space gun (at least if you are doing mage only) is a much better damage increase than that, since while it isn't a great weapon by itself, you can shoot it while your mana regeneration potion (which you should be using for pre-hardmode bosses) restores your mana, giving you okay damage when you'd ordinarily have none. Wizard set is still solid during earlygame though.
Click to expand...
That's part of the reason why I said Mystic robe, if you're not lucky enough to get it then diamond/any gem robe's a solid option, mostly because it doesn't require you destroy any orbs/hearts.

While I see your point with the mana regen potion, I don't really think that's a valid point. There are very few people that focus on switching to space gun when their mana is running low, especially not if you're fighting a master mode boss. That also doesn't take into account the fact that a lot of players would run mystic robe in place of their breastplate. This nullifies the set bonus and renders the space gun useless.

In early game there are only really 3 choices for mages: Meteorite set, Jungle set, and Wizard set, anyway.
 
Dapling said:
Uzi: 37 damage x 4% crit chance x 6.67 hits per second = 256.5 dps.
Megashark: 32 damage x 4% crit chance x 8.57 hits per second = 285.3 dps.
Megashark has around 12% more base dps than Uzi, and this gap increases with better ammo damage due to its higher firerate. An entire Avenger Emblem worth of increased damage MINIMUM is not “exactly the same”
One is a quite rare drop from an enemy in the most difficult biome in the game.
The other is made of drops from a boss so ridiculously trivial to kill that people call literal normal kills of it cheese, and it’s summoned with incredibly common materials.

Learn to back up your points.
Click to expand...

This is single target dummy dps. And that's of no practical value.

Add two more target dummies and Uzi will have more dps. But what is more important is the base damage value, Because armor exist. And this means that there is a breakeven point when Uzi deals as much DPS as Megashark does against even single target simply because Megashark damage is getting absorbed by the higher armor values.

Hence in the actual tactical situation multihit capability and higher base damage are more useful.

Also, as Jungle biome goes, the thing is you are stuck with it for a lo-o-ong time. Because it boosts spawn rate for the farms. For the most part Uzi is just a byproduct of general farming.
 
Last edited:
Lucky1 said:
This is single target dummy dps. And that's of no practical value.

Add two more target dummies and Uzi will have more dps. But what is more important is the base damage value, Because armor exist. And this means that there is a breakeven point when Uzi deals as much DPS as Megashark does against even single target simply because Megashark damage is getting absorbed by the higher armor values. Hence in the actual tactical situation multihit capability and higher base damage are more useful.
Click to expand...
For crowd-control you can use either high-velocity bullets or explosive bullets with megashark and even then there are better weapons for crowd-control. About the high defense, megashark has just 5 less damage than uzi which means megashark has better dps when not using musket bullets, and even then just use ichor, if you are in a corruption world you can either setup an underground crimson or a surface one and fish for crates.

Also why wouldn’t single target dps matter???
Lucky1 said:
Also, as Jungle biome goes, the thing is you are stuck with it for a lo-o-ong time. Because it boosts spawn rate for the farms. For the most part Uzi is just a byproduct of general farming.
Click to expand...
1/100 from a rare enemy is not easy to get, not to mention that you need good equipment to farm underground hardmode jungle right after WoF, if using an ore repeater with any hardmode ore armor just pair it with jester or unholy arrows to take out the destroyer and get ur megashark.
 
Last edited:
Lucky1 said:
This is single target dummy dps. And that's of no practical value.
Click to expand...
If you use literally any other bullet besides musket balls, the gap between the two guns increases further due to megashark’s high firerate. I actually heavily biased this calculation in uzi’s favor.
Lucky1 said:
Add two more target dummies and Uzi will have more dps.
Click to expand...
Add high velocity bullets or literally any other bullet type besides musket balls and tungsten bullets which are the two weakest bullets in the game which you probably shouldn’t be using anyway, and this point is moot.
Lucky1 said:
But what is more important is the base damage value, Because armor exist. And this means that there is a breakeven point when Uzi deals as much DPS as Megashark does against even single target simply because Megashark damage is getting absorbed by the higher armor values
Click to expand...
Defense does exist, yes. The breakeven point occurs at around 30 defense and this is assuming you have absolutely no armor penetration whatsoever AND are using musket balls AND have no other damage increases from armor or accessories, which means realistically this number will be higher. This means that megashark generally does not deal less dps than uzi for any required bosses until Lunatic Cultist assuming you are actually using a sidearm for ichor and are wearing literally any armor that boosts either gun (which you should be)
Lucky1 said:
Hence in the actual tactical situation multihit capability and higher base damage are more useful.
Click to expand...
Nope, had you actually checked your facts you would have thought twice before making that claim.
Lucky1 said:
Also, as Jungle biome goes, the thing is you are stuck with it for a lo-o-ong time. Because it boosts spawn rate for the farms. For the most part Uzi is just a byproduct of general farming
Click to expand...
By that logic, megashark is just a byproduct of progressing through the game. Destroyer is not a skippable boss and its drops are extremely worthwhile.
 
Last edited:
Dapling said:
If you use literally any other bullet besides musket balls, the gap between the two guns increases further due to megashark’s high firerate. I actually heavily biased this calculation in uzi’s favor.

Add high velocity bullets or literally any other bullet type besides musket balls and tungsten bullets which are the two weakest bullets in the game which you probably shouldn’t be using anyway, and this point is moot.

Defense does exist, yes. The breakeven point occurs at around 30 defense and this is assuming you have absolutely no armor penetration whatsoever AND are using musket balls AND have no other damage increases from armor or accessories, which means realistically this number will be higher. This means that megashark generally does not deal less dps than uzi for any required bosses until Lunatic Cultist assuming you are actually using a sidearm for ichor and are wearing literally any armor that boosts either gun (which you should be)

Nope, had you actually checked your facts you would have thought twice before making that claim.

By that logic, megashark is just a byproduct of progressing through the game. Destroyer is not a skippable boss and its drops are extremely worthwhile.
Click to expand...

You was using base stats as an argument. Uzi has innate multihit capability and higher base damage. So in terms of your own comparison baseline Uzi is actually better than baseline Megashark under circumstances described above (multiple hitboxes and armored target).

And this is why you must use different ammo, ap and damage boosting accessories for the Megashark. To close the gap created by the basic Uzi capabilities. Meaning that Uzi is better as it is.

And yes, you are absolutely correct: Megashark is a byproduct of boss progression. While Uzi is not.
 
Lucky1 said:
You was using base stats as an argument.
Click to expand...
Correct. Which is where uzi is at its least disadvantaged state. Any boost to megashark makes it pull even further ahead of uzi.
Lucky1 said:
Uzi has innate multihit capability and higher base damage. So in terms of your own comparison baseline Uzi is actually better than baseline Megashark under circumstances described above (multiple hitboxes and armored target).
Click to expand...
The first point only works under the assumption that you’re intentionally using the worst ammo for no reason. High velocity bullets are obtainable with just money by the time megashark is available, which means you can get infinite of them quite easily (in fact, I can link to you one of my many infinite money exploits if you like) and there is absolutely no reason not to use them on megashark too.

Also, please name an actually relevant enemy with more than 30 defense (I checked, such opponents are not common) and then name a reason you aren’t wearing armor, or using good ammo, or using accessories in post mech. It is genuinely baffling that you’re acting like using NONE of those things is a realistic scenario.
Lucky1 said:
And this is why you must use different ammo, ap and damage boosting accessories for the Megashark. To close the gap created by the basic Uzi capabilities. Meaning that Uzi is better as it is.
Click to expand...
using different ammo may as well be free (again, I can link you to one of many infinite money guides if need be) and you don’t even need damage accessories as long as you’re wearing literally any armor that has ranged bonuses at all whatsoever
 
Dapling said:
Correct. Which is where uzi is at its least disadvantaged state. Any boost to megashark makes it pull even further ahead of uzi.

The first point only works under the assumption that you’re intentionally using the worst ammo for no reason. High velocity bullets are obtainable with just money by the time megashark is available, which means you can get infinite of them quite easily (in fact, I can link to you one of my many infinite money exploits if you like) and there is absolutely no reason not to use them on megashark too.

Also, please name an actually relevant enemy with more than 30 defense (I checked, such opponents are not common) and then name a reason you aren’t wearing armor, or using good ammo, or using accessories in post mech. It is genuinely baffling that you’re acting like using NONE of those things is a realistic scenario.

using different ammo may as well be free (again, I can link you to one of many infinite money guides if need be) and you don’t even need damage accessories as long as you’re wearing literally any armor that has ranged bonuses at all whatsoever
Click to expand...

Uzi is at a disadvantage against a target dummy. Starting with two target dummies it is Megashark what is at a disadvantage.

I'm not using ammo. I'm speaking to you. You made a point out of base stats. No ammunition. No accessories. Just the basics. I'm using this till you take it back.

Relevant enemies with defense equal or above 30: black recluses, regular and biome mimics, chaos elementals and illuminant slimes/bats, corruptors/clingers, unicorns, werewolves.

And its not about getting ammo for free. Its about base stats.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom