Dapling
Duke Fishron
If you've been nohitting a boss for 5 years, increasing it by any amount that isn't outright multiplying it isn't going to make you stop now.
*DEVS* Did you even playtest 1.4 master mode??? #OVERTUNED
- Thread starter Brixtan
- Start date
Guest735
Terrarian
If this game’s master mode doesn’t offer more difficulty for you, it’s because you’re used to more difficulty than it has to offer, but not every terraria player is like that, many find difficulty and interesting challenge in the master mode the way he’s already is, for more difficulty that the master mode alone has there is the master mode with the seed "For The Worthy", if you do not find more difficulty in the master mode alone this seed is for you.
Dapling
Duke Fishron
It wasn't more difficult for me to complete, because the game didn't facilitate any new mistakes for me to make that wasn't new content from 1.4. For the Worthy is clearly meant to be a joke, look at the Golem fight.
Also, I'm so sorry that I assumed something titled Master mode was meant for actual masters of the game. It fails to test them, and why can't you understand that.
Guest735
Terrarian
But the fact that the seed increases the challenge is obvious.
The master mode with the seed in question come together for the maximum challenge the game has to offer, saying that both things are easy for everyone, I don't need to say why I don't agree with you.
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Guest735
Terrarian
So I assume that the challenge of the master mode is already complete the way it is already, joining with the seed "For the Worthy" the player has the maximum challenge that the game has to offer.
The increase in numbers in the master mode is enough to increase the challenge even more compared to the expert mode.
The increase in numbers in the master mode is enough to increase the challenge even more compared to the expert mode.
Are you trolling?
Raising stats =/= Raising difficulty.
Terraria mostly focuses on bosses for progression. Expert mode makes changes to these bosses' AI to make them harder. Master mode makes ABSOLUTELY NO CHANGE to their AI, meaning you can repeat exactly the same pattern you've done in Expert mode and still win against the Master mode boss, it just takes much longer and is more annoying to fight than expert. Plus it is a lot more punishing for minor mistakes you might make, which just makes the game not fun overall. When you're playing in Expert mode you'll be worried about the upcoming bosses. When you're playing in Master mode you're worried about the random encounter that might cause 400 damage to you, instantly ending the fight.
Dapling
Duke Fishron
I never said For the Worthy was easy. I said it's not meant to be taken seriously. There's a massive difference.
And yet it doesn't feel more challenging. I can still kite literally everything with the exact same methods as expert mode and experience no punishment for doing so. For the Worthy fixes it, but it also isn't always an option and again, isn't meant to be taken seriously. People liked Calamity's Revengeance and Fargo's Eternity Mode because it wasn't just number buffs.
Guest735
Terrarian
If you two no longer find a challenge in the master mode along with the seed, then look for one more challenge to add (play with only one class, play without using a jump or anything else you prefer) or you can even expect some increase-difficulty-mod that may exist in the future.
Dapling
Duke Fishron
I'm not going to constrain myself unnecessarily because the game failed when it promised it would.
Guest735
Terrarian
There is no perfect game.
In the real world there are different people with different tastes.
Dapling
Duke Fishron
The game doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to meet the standards that it set for itself. Expert set standards of altering AI and Master failed to meet them, simple as that.
Guest735
Terrarian
For that they made the seed, game completed.
And that proves what exactly? It is not us who dislike master mode. It is relogic's poor decision that makes the gamemode bad.
Dapling
Duke Fishron
The seed. is. a. joke. Some of it's changes didn't even make the game more difficult and were clearly not meant for vanilla. Look at Skeletron Prime's bombs.
Guest735
Terrarian
Me and other players think that the master mode is as good as it already is.
But some details are more challenging, some bosses were able to defeat the main character in one hit, if this is not a challenge for you, then look for a new challenge or wait for a mod like I already said.
Dapling
Duke Fishron
I can't do that in multiplayer, and the people who think it's good are far outnumbered by people like Leviathan and myself.
Guest735
Terrarian
If that’s true now it doesn’t make a difference, the last major update has passed, don’t expect an update with new AI from the game’s enemies to happen yet.
Nicol Bolas
Terrarian
I don't know that they planned on pleasing everyone. Indeed, I seem to recall them saying that Master Mode wasn't intended to be for everyone, but I don't have a quote for that.
Also, the primary reason to make a difficulty mode just a stat boost is cost: cost in development time and effort. It takes far less effort to apply some broad stat multipliers than it does to create and playtest all new AI patterns. Since they decided from the start that Master Mode would only be stat changes, they clearly budgeted it appropriately. So it should have been obvious that they were not going to suddenly decide to invest more effort than budgeted, to take developer time away from the other elements of 1.4 just to make a higher difficulty mode more engaging for some people.
So the only possible thing that could have happened over those 5 months would be to scrap the mode entirely. And here's the thing: a mode you don't use cannot make the game worse by simply existing. As such, 1.4 without Master Mode would be no more objectively better or worse for you than 1.4 with Master Mode. It might feel better because it doesn't have this "higher difficulty mode" that you don't enjoy, but it wouldn't actually be any different for you.
I'm not saying you're an idiot for having hope for a different outcome. I'm saying that you shouldn't blame the developers for you choosing to have that hope. My overall point is that the developers set the expectations in a way such that you should not have been surprised by what you got. You may have wanted more, but they never promised more based on the non-marketing information they supplied.
I never said or implied otherwise. Many people who like difficult gameplay do not like Master Mode. That's undeniable. But there are people who like difficult gameplay who do enjoy Master Mode even as it currently stands. They aren't wrong just because they disagree with the first group.
I don't read Terraria's Discord or Twitter, and yet I knew what Master Mode was back then too. I never said Master Mode was marketed to everyone, merely that everyone was told up-front what the changes for Master Mode would be.
It's important to note that nobody is claiming that Master Mode is good because it doesn't change AIs. What's being claimed is that calling the change "not more difficult" is just incorrect based on how people use that word. You don't have to like the difficulty it creates (and I'm totally with you on that), but it is undeniably creating difficulty.
And it's interesting to note that the games you mention tend to be newer ones. In the old days, difficulty modes was just either more enemies or enemies with more toughness/damage. Again, this is not a value judgment, merely a question of definition.
The only problem I have with this argument is the leading sentence, which is simply not correct. "Fake difficulty" is still difficulty even if it's largely unenjoyable. You've made a good case that the difficulty is unenjoyable. But it remains difficulty nevertheless.
If you're dying a lot to an encounter, that encounter is harder than one where you don't die much. If you're at greater risk of dying due to a "random encounter", then that encounter is harder than one where that risk is gone. If an encounter takes longer, with increased risk per-unit-time of failure, then that encounter is harder. Having to play perfectly for a longer period of time does represent increased difficulty.
That doesn't make it fun, but it does make it harder. This is the very definition of "fake difficulty": difficulty that isn't fun.
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Dapling
Duke Fishron
1.4.1 is still something that is going to happen, and we've had decent amount of content in 1.x.x updates before.
It doesn't change the fact that Expert changed AI and they had five years to do it again. They could have done it, they had already done it before, and they didn't. That's why I'm displeased. They didn't even have to change too much. Expert barely affected non-boss enemy AI and not all bosses were even changed.
You're saying the devs would have needed time to playtest everything in master mode if they had created AI changes, which means they put out stat changes to save their time and not playtest the game. Indeed, I seem to recall that there is a thread complaining about that exact problem, but I don't have a quote for that.
So why didn't they scrap the mode entirely? It would have been better off than frustrating players out of the game with artificial difficulty. Even the target demographic does not want anything to do with Master mode. The devs should not have hyped master mode as much as they have, if it were only stat changes.