Opinions on dodging, defense, and overall skill.

[CannedPotato]

You will/have not gotten a very large range of Terraria's playerbase here, specifically the only people here on the Terraria forums are pretty advanced players pair that with the bandwagon effect and you will only get responses glorifying glass cannon playstyles as the final evolution of Terraria skill. This is like asking an ESports team of their opinion on the tutorial, may as well remove it because they don't want to do it.

What I will forever preach for Terraria is playing the game how you want to, I won't reply to 'I beat moon lord with a lawnmower' by saying it's unoriginal though, if you want to do that by all means. But a lot of replies here are 7 levels above dismissive of a playstyle that really is just going for a different kind of victory, if someone wants to make the little shield number very big they aren't less than you. Which is a sentiment feel strongly when I read...

due to just not being good enough to dodge everything

Treat Defense like your training wheels

eventually "shunning" defense will let you get to a [higher] level

High defense and health regen builds allow players a lower entry point to tackle certain bosses or biomes earlier or in a 'less prepared' fashion

Dodging is the true solution ... Defense is the temporary solution

I get you are all trying to be helpful and shed some insight to the other end of the field of playstyles, but at the end of the day a well prepared tank and dps build can both kill a boss...

PS if the problem is not being able to beat bosses fast, you don't want a dps build you want an inner tube and a jousting lance
PPS star cloak

 

[Baconfry]

We get 3 loadout slots, and that's more than enough to run either an offensive or defensive set depending on what you feel like doing. On one hand, offensive sets are absolutely more skill-based, but on the other hand, defensive sets allow you to get away with using silly that would get you killed instantly if you attempted using them with offensive sets. It's perfectly possible to have fun while playing with a tank set (for example, Shadowflame Hex Doll tank mage) and it's also perfectly possible to have no fun at all while playing with an offensive set (for example, fighting Moon Lord).

I will emphasize one important thing: if someone approaches me and asks me for loadout advice with a boss that they are struggling with, I will tell them to switch to a tank set. Almost 100% of the time. A true shinobi knows the difference between victory and honor.

 

[Orchamut]

Out of a sort of paranoia I always use a lot of both movement and defensive accessories, and never any offensive ones. If you can dodge almost every attack and also shrug off the ones that do hit you, a little extra DPS doesn't really matter, right? Right..?

Edit: Except for when I'm using summon weapons anyway, because then you kind of need those accessories. Makes summoner pretty hard though but I will say it's helped me learn how to live without a lot of movement accessories.

 

[chewythebigblackdog]

One thing to add is that defensive setups tend to have bosses where they do disproportionately better on. These tend to be fights that kill you via lots of "small" hits, such as the destroyer's lasers. The more defence you have, more of the game becomes "small" hits, allowing for you to become effectively unkillable more often. There are fights were defensive setups are less useful (this isn't to say that it's not possible to tank these fights, it's just a LOT harder), like duke fishron, especially if you are fighting him in early hardmode.

I usually opt for a somewhat "balanced" loadout, opting for warding reforges and a damage reduction accessory or two, but not to the point of replacing more standard accessory options with +defence stat sticks. I do think full tank is probably the overall easiest setup to beat (most) bosses with though. When I beat hardcore master mode, I used a very tanky loadout for the entire game (though I didn't know the power of stacking defence at the time, so my accessory loadout was more "standard"). Probably my favourite setup from that run was a beetle shell hybrid class setup (accessories were betsy's wings, insignia, celestial shell, worm scarf, destroyer emblem, star veil, and a flex slot). I used a mix of weapons from all classes, which made it pretty interesting to play. iirc I had flying dragon, eventide, snowman cannon, razorblade typhoon, betsy's wrath, and a desert tiger summon (though as I was getting weapons for the setup I also used bubble gun, tsunami, and scourge of the corruptor).

 

[Dapling]

There are fights were defensive setups are less useful (this isn't to say that it's not possible to tank these fights, it's just a LOT harder), like duke fishron

until you bring vampire knives into the mix, and then you end up with that silly video of one of my friends beating duke fishron in master mode without moving with one hand while eating porridge with his other hand


how on earth do people not think this is the most broken weapon in the game I will never understand that

 

[Ferrin🌳]

You will/have not gotten a very large range of Terraria's playerbase here, specifically the only people here on the Terraria forums are pretty advanced players pair that with the bandwagon effect and you will only get responses glorifying glass cannon playstyles as the final evolution of Terraria skill. This is like asking an ESports team of their opinion on the tutorial, may as well remove it because they don't want to do it.

I think you're overreacting quite a bit in every part of your comment

You say that it's bad that only expirienced playeres talk about this, I'd say only expirienced players know true limitations of each build and playstyle, additionally you should consider that these defensive setups that you say are somehow undervalued here were mostly created by expirnced players. Stacking damage reduction % and immunity frames with as much healing as possible all optimised by expirenced playres.

The examples you give are out of context and without adnotation from where they come but they don't have to be hate against players using defensive setups. Allow me to give possible reasoning

due to just not being good enough to dodge everything

that can be just statement that defence is generally more relieable coz most players are not good enough to dodge everything. Just an objective truth

Treat Defense like your training wheels

I mean as you play more it seems natural that you'll get better at dodging an ones you do defense becomes obsolite, it does not have a different function besides helping if you get hit

eventually "shunning" defense will let you get to a [higher] level

i mean there is no particular levels in terraria so this one doen't make much sense but playing master mode pretty much forces you to relly on both dodges and defense if not dodges alone

High defense and health regen builds allow players a lower entry point to tackle certain bosses or biomes earlier or in a 'less prepared' fashion

yup just an objective truth, meybe besides 'less prepared' i'd argue that defence builds need more preparation

Dodging is the true solution ... Defense is the temporary solution

I'd say that sometimes defence is a true solution depending what kind of run or purpose a build is made for, but ussually dodging will be more 'optimal'
never the less they're both a solution

 

[Salty_]

You will/have not gotten a very large range of Terraria's playerbase here, specifically the only people here on the Terraria forums are pretty advanced players pair that with the bandwagon effect and you will only get responses glorifying glass cannon playstyles as the final evolution of Terraria skill. This is like asking an ESports team of their opinion on the tutorial, may as well remove it because they don't want to do it.

What I will forever preach for Terraria is playing the game how you want to, I won't reply to 'I beat moon lord with a lawnmower' by saying it's unoriginal though, if you want to do that by all means. But a lot of replies here are 7 levels above dismissive of a playstyle that really is just going for a different kind of victory, if someone wants to make the little shield number very big they aren't less than you. Which is a sentiment feel strongly when I read...






I get you are all trying to be helpful and shed some insight to the other end of the field of playstyles, but at the end of the day a well prepared tank and dps build can both kill a boss...

PS if the problem is not being able to beat bosses fast, you don't want a dps build you want an inner tube and a jousting lance
PPS star cloak

Dodging and Defense are not playstyles. They are a skill and a build respectively, and they are not mutually exclusive.

The reason why I call dodging the true solution is because it is a skill that never leaves you and will always be useful regardless of your class.
Dodging an attack is always an option. Defense might not.

Cherrypicked example? Daytime EoL. A boss you literally cannot beat without dodging.

 

[SOUR LEMON]

I think you're overreacting quite a bit in every part of your comment

You say that it's bad that only expirienced playeres talk about this, I'd say only expirienced players know true limitations of each build and playstyle, additionally you should consider that these defensive setups that you say are somehow undervalued here were mostly created by expirnced players. Stacking damage reduction % and immunity frames with as much healing as possible all optimised by expirenced playres.

The examples you give are out of context and without adnotation from where they come but they don't have to be hate against players using defensive setups. Allow me to give possible reasoning

that can be just statement that defence is generally more relieable coz most players are not good enough to dodge everything. Just an objective truth

I mean as you play more it seems natural that you'll get better at dodging an ones you do defense becomes obsolite, it does not have a different function besides helping if you get hit

i mean there is no particular levels in terraria so this one doen't make much sense but playing master mode pretty much forces you to relly on both dodges and defense if not dodges alone

yup just an objective truth, meybe besides 'less prepared' i'd argue that defence builds need more preparation

I'd say that sometimes defence is a true solution depending what kind of run or purpose a build is made for, but ussually dodging will be more 'optimal'
never the less they're both a solution

Why are you breaking down his entire argument, like what did bro do to you?

 

[Eye Of Cthulhu 🌳]

I can say dodging is more important than defense

That's why i play summoner, because I can dodge

 

[Impostor]

Mix of both for me. I go with half menacing and half warding for accessories. Dodging is preferred but if I get hit, my warding worm scarf leaves me way better off than if I had nothing at all

 

[Ferrin🌳]

Why are you breaking down his entire argument, like what did bro do to you?

honestly nothing, never seen that man before in my life, but I saw his comment and felt like "absolutely not"

nah, but in all seriousnes i have nothing agains him, just decided that his comment would be good example to straighten up some points a lot of people make here, to ensure that these point are not taken as some sort of personal attack on players who choose defensive builds.

 

[VenonUIO]

I believe defence's viability depends on how you approach it. If you're still actively trying and succeeding at dodging bosses attacks, while still having high defense in reserve for the rare occasions where you do get hit, then it's a reliable safety net. On the other hand, I can imagine defence being considerably less effective if someone is using it as a crutch for the purpose of supplanting dodging, which is something that generally doesn't lead to the easiest wins on the higher difficulties. In that sense, I suppose defence is more reliable...the less you rely on it.

It's easy to get hit by stray lasers or projectiles if you happen to not be in the perfect position during the entire boss fight, so having the defence to mitigate the bulk of the damage caused by those sorts of attacks is welcome. It definitely helps out during fights with projectiles flying around left and right, like the Destroyer or Lunatic Cultist.

 

[Mark The Devourer]

A bunch of good comments that went completely under my radar, and I want to thank all of you for giving your feedback, but after play Mage and and Ranger for a bit (rather than Melee and summoner) I have noticed something. Dodging is important and arguably better defense in boss fights. But doesn't defense help quite a bit? In events that send A lot of enemies your way, I much preferred having a higher defense stat then just sheer dodging. Having some random Greek fire projectile take out a third of your health bar killed me a little inside when in my melee play through I could afford to get hit once or twice and not sweat out of every pore of my body. in boss fights, I've found that it depends on the boss. Bosses like skelletron prime, empress, and the twins definitely benefit from having a more glass cannon build in my eyes, but for bosses like the destroyer, plantera, and golem, and the dreadful queen slime; tank builds felt so good man.

Another thing to mention is that my favorite class is melee, and one of those reasons is having an absurdly high defense stat. It feels good obtaining new accessories that allow you to become stronger and stronger,and you really feel that power coming to you. Plus even if I set everything to warding and not menacing I still kill bosses and most enemies just fine.
But when I played summoner, it was a rude awakening. OOF, post plantera summoner made me truly understand what people meant when they said "glass cannon."

But Ranger and mage both usually have more defense than summoner, and while I don't expect either of them to be pulling as much defense as the melee class, I strangely felt more comfortable with them. Granted these are just first impressions, I have yet to enter hard mode with both classes (but I am very close to doing so). I'll have to keep you guys posted on my experiences, but as far as I'm concerned defense is valuable. Even if in theory you can just dodge everything if your good enough, I like defense. It's fun! At least to me.

Oh, and I don't care for mods like calamity or Fargo's or whatever. Not my thing at all, no thanks.

I probably just have a skill issue but that neither her nor there (':

 

[VenonUIO]

A bunch of good comments that went completely under my radar, and I want to thank all of you for giving your feedback, but after play Mage and and Ranger for a bit (rather than Melee and summoner) I have noticed something. Dodging is important and arguably better defense in boss fights. But doesn't defense help quite a bit? In events that send A lot of enemies your way, I much preferred having a higher defense stat then just sheer dodging. Having some random Greek fire projectile take out a third of your health bar killed me a little inside when in my melee play through I could afford to get hit once or twice and not sweat out of every pore of my body. in boss fights, I've found that it depends on the boss. Bosses like skelletron prime, empress, and the twins definitely benefit from having a more glass cannon build in my eyes, but for bosses like the destroyer, plantera, and golem, and the dreadful queen slime; tank builds felt so good man.

Another thing to mention is that my favorite class is melee, and one of those reasons is having an absurdly high defense stat. It feels good obtaining new accessories that allow you to become stronger and stronger,and you really feel that power coming to you. Plus even if I set everything to warding and not menacing I still kill bosses and most enemies just fine.
But when I played summoner, it was a rude awakening. OOF, post plantera summoner made me truly understand what people meant when they said "glass cannon."

But Ranger and mage both usually have more defense than summoner, and while I don't expect either of them to be pulling as much defense as the melee class, I strangely felt more comfortable with them. Granted these are just first impressions, I have yet to enter hard mode with both classes (but I am very close to doing so). I'll have to keep you guys posted on my experiences, but as far as I'm concerned defense is valuable. Even if in theory you can just dodge everything if your good enough, I like defense. It's fun! At least to me.

Oh, and I don't care for mods like calamity or Fargo's or whatever. Not my thing at all, no thanks.

I probably just have a skill issue but that neither her nor there (':

To be honest, Melee is my favourite class, and that's one of the reasons why. I'm doing a Mage playthrough for once, and the lack of defence sucks, as does the requirement that you stop attacking every few seconds while waiting for your mana to regenerate. If the Mage class did exponentially more damage to justify the wet tissue paper durability and crippling micromanagement of mana at all times, then I wouldn't mind, but the damage seems shoddy too, despite my investment in all the usual magic equipment you'd be using for boss fights. I'm actually dealing less damage-per-second than I was during my Summoner and Melee playthroughs, and this is with Magic Power Potions and no Mana Sickness. The class doesn't have too many problems in pre-Hardmode, but I'm already struggling with the Twins. Any one of Retinazer's lasers (which would tickle you on a melee build) will take off an entire third of your health as a mage, which becomes especially noticeable during the second phase. I can only imagine how quickly the Destroyer's barrage of lasers could eviscerate this class.

I rarely use the buff potions in playthroughs, as I usually feel there's little need to, but playing as a mage is bringing forth this urge to chug as many Endurance, Lifeforce and Ironskin Potions as I can get all of a sudden.

There are no shortage of people who praise the Mage class for being "overpowered" and capable of melting everything, so I'm sure I'm missing something, but I can't pretend the low defence isn't a flaw either. Even bumping into a zombie during a boss fight will put you on the brink of death with this class, so you have to sweat your backend off doing the exact same things classes like Melee could approach comfortably, even if it's something banal like building or mining. Granted, this is my first time playing as a Mage in years, so maybe I'm just not used to its playstyle, all things considered.

 

[Mark The Devourer]

To be honest, Melee is my favourite class, and that's one of the reasons why. I'm doing a Mage playthrough for once, and the lack of defence sucks, as does the requirement that you stop attacking every few seconds while waiting for your mana to regenerate. If the Mage class did exponentially more damage to justify the wet tissue paper durability and crippling micromanagement of mana at all times, then I wouldn't mind, but the damage seems shoddy too, despite my investment in all the usual magic equipment you'd be using for boss fights. I'm actually dealing less damage-per-second than I was during my Summoner and Melee playthroughs, and this is with Magic Power Potions and no Mana Sickness. The class doesn't have too many problems in pre-Hardmode, but I'm already struggling with the Twins. Any one of Retinazer's lasers (which would tickle you on a melee build) will take off an entire third of your health as a mage, which becomes especially noticable during the second phase. I can only imagine how quickly the Destroyer's barrage of lasers could eviscerate this class.

I rarely use the buff potions in playthroughs, as I usually feel there's little need to, but playing as a mage is bringing forth this urge to chug as many Endurance, Lifeforce and Ironskin Potions as I can get all of a sudden.

There are no shortage of people who praise the Mage class for being "overpowered" and capable of melting everything, so I'm sure I'm missing something, but I can't pretend the low defence isn't a flaw either. Even bumping into a zombie during a boss fight will put you on the brink of death with this class, so you have to sweat your backend off doing the exact same things classes like Melee could approach comfortably, even if it's something banal like building or mining.

Have you tried using the mana flower potion thing? Yeah, I know mana sickness is a thing, but God damn I can't imagine playing mage without that thing. I also recommend getting your hands on a rainbow rod. It's a great weapon that should take out the twins no sweat. Get a life drain if you can, it's awesome- and the clinger staff shreds the destroyer and OOA. And don't be afraid to use other classes' weapons!

The way you describe mage is how I secretly feel about summoner. Summoner was really fun until I got into post plantera and started drowning in my own sweat, ha ha! Though mage has higher defense than summoner but not by all too much.

 

[CannedPotato]

I also recommend getting your hands on a rainbow rod. It's a great weapon that should take out the twins no sweat

Man

I enjoy playing mage quite a bit, but the process of making the class work is what deters a lot of players, rightfully so as well.
When in high intensity battles you pretty much need a mana regen potion and a star in a bottle, there are of course other ways around mana shortages but they require a level of preparation that make it very situational to the range of places a player may end up in.

 

[VenonUIO]

Have you tried using the mana flower potion thing? Yeah, I know mana sickness is a thing, but God damn I can't imagine playing mage without that thing. I also recommend getting your hands on a rainbow rod. It's a great weapon that should take out the twins no sweat. Get a life drain if you can, it's awesome- and the clinger staff shreds the destroyer and OOA. And don't be afraid to use other classes' weapons!

The way you describe mage is how I secretly feel about summoner. Summoner was really fun until I got into post plantera and started drowning in my own sweat, ha ha! Though mage has higher defense than summoner but not by all too much.

I have a Mana Cloak, but the thought of Mana Sickness (another delightful handicap for this class) accumulating and reducing my already mediocre damage output is such a harrowing prospect that I try and keep my mana high with regen instead. Might have to consider using the Mana Potions anyway though, just so I don't have to consistently divert my attention to the mana bar on the side of the screen. Maybe my weapons are just letting me down, because I'm not actually sure if the Orange Zapinator and Spirit Flame are the best mage weapons for the Twins. Mage ostensibly has a higher barrier to entry than some of the other classes, which I'm definitely coming to terms with now. Hoping I can take advantage of its best attributes soon, because I'm still not experienced enough with the Mage class.

 

[CannedPotato]

I'm not actually sure if the Orange Zapinator and Spirit Flame are the best mage weapons for the Twins

At that point in the game it is pretty hard to go wrong with weapon choices, your picks seem completely fine but if you want to try some other ones I recommend Sky Fracture, Crystal Serpent, Flower of Frost and of course Golden Shower, which is pretty much a custom of every boss which can get the ichor debuff.
You've made it pretty far already, so I am sure you can finish the world. But it is nice to keep in mind that not everything works for everyone, which is just the reality of a game where your options are so varied. It's okay to not like playstyles, I certainly don't like playing how others would but that is okay. Good luck with your game.
I'll stop talking about this topic in particular though because what I am saying doesn't very well relate to the topic of the thread.

 

[chewythebigblackdog]

Regarding mage, using warding reforges and maybe a defensive accessory or 2 (something like worm scarf/brain of confusion can help a lot on less tanky setups) to pump up your defence can help to feel less squishy. Retinazer's lasers do around 140 (100 on the spam) damage in master mode, and with 70 defence (mage adamantite set + 7 wardings + shield of cthulhu + ironskin), you reduce it to 70 (or 30 on the spam), which is pretty manageable (and more defence makes it even better). As someone who loves mage, I will agree that mage doesn't have too many great pre-mech weapons for killing bosses (besides the spirit flame, which is quite possibly the most annoying pre-mech weapon to obtain). Spirit flame is pretty great though, investing in some defence will make things easier.
At the pre-mech stage, despite mage's lack of good single target (that isn't spirit flame), mage's crowd control options are unmatched, with weapons like cursed flames, clinger staff, nimbus rod, and life drain. Once you get rainbow rod (and especially once you get your hands on dungeon gear) mage really comes into its own damage wise, plus you'll get spectre hood to become almost as unkillable as a tank setup (at least one without vampire knives) while mostly going glass cannon.
As for mana potions, the amount of damage you lose by waiting for mana to regenerate (at least when you have greater/super mana potions) is less than the amount you'll lose by drinking the potions. As long as you don't drink another potion while mana sickness is still present (which shouldn't happen with 95% of weapons), the damage loss is only around 10%. Personally, I ditch the mana cloak and just use a hotkey to drink potions (if you are playing on PC and have side buttons on your mouse they are perfect for this), but for those that don't want to do that the cloak works fine (though the better option is to use magnet flower until mechs are dead, then decraft it with shimmer and go with celestial emblem + mana cloak).

 

[fargoSoulsEnjoyer]

As the name says, I love challenge mods. Specifically, ones like Fargo's Souls - extremely challenging and hard to dodge attacks, but they're all fair, and predictable.
I also love dodging. Souls literally tries to make you run warding by making it give you more max HP, but that's still not as good as Lucky (translates into lifesteal later on) or Quick (nyoom) or even Menacing (when your weapons deal 15000 damage, you want that 28% damage increase). Generally, i'd rather be faster/do more damage/have a 'loud' [read: visually noisy] dodge than just have more defense or damage resistance.
also, ""70 [damage] (or 30 [damage] on the spam), which is pretty manageable"" is very funny because the spam is massive electricity balls that do 200 upfront damage and 50 in DOT but to each their own, and not everyone enjoys being hit by a truck for being off by a pixel.
Therefore, worm scarf worse than brain (you get better from dodging, not facetanking!)