NPCs & Enemies Attack pattern of enraged Duke Fishron is too simple and need to be buffed

[AkiVic]

Just some simple tracks and wooden minecart (see image below). He can never hit (even in expert phase 3)!

Since truffle worm can be farmed before defeating any of the mechanical bosses, this method provide an easy way to get OP weapons immediately after Wall of Flesh, without any skill or gear requirement. IMO it should be buffed with more complex attack patterns.
(For example, leaving track of stationary bubbles when lunging?)

Edited: Added more examples of abusing enraged duke fishron.

#1. Anti-gravity hook. Simply grapple and keep spinning.

#2. Long platforms. Jumping practice and muscle memory are required for fixed lunging patterns.

 

[PixelPatcher]

Just some simple tracks and wooden minecart (see image below). He can never hit (even in expert phase 3)!
View attachment 274685
Since truffle worm can be farmed before defeating any of the mechanical bosses, this method provide an easy way to get OP weapons immediately after Wall of Flesh, without any skill or gear requirement. IMO it should be buffed with more complex attack patterns.
(For example, leaving track of stationary bubbles when lunging?)

Here's my view on this:

If it is really easy to make such a minecart track, yeah, it needs to be changed. Some added randomness should do the trick.

But if this formation is quite hard to make (it needs to be a certain size, and you need a certain minecart for it to work), then it seems more like a feat of player ingenuity that it works, almost an "easter egg".

 

[Sora_92]

Woah, that's really interesting! Lol, I never know you could cheese duke fishron like this XD
He's that one boss I usually had the most trouble with, he's insanely fast and really hard to dodge with wings or ufo mount, and/or then hard to hit without tracking weapons. Although on mage playthrough, nebulla arcanum was very effective against him. XD

 

[AkiVic]

Here's my view on this:

If it is really easy to make such a minecart track, yeah, it needs to be changed. Some added randomness should do the trick.

But if this formation is quite hard to make (it needs to be a certain size, and you need a certain minecart for it to work), then it seems more like a feat of player ingenuity that it works, almost an "easter egg".

I tried several times in both single player and multiplayer. I concluded it requires certain sized tracks for different minecarts in order to get the perfect performance like this example. It may take multiple tries and deaths to build one, but once succeed, it will succeed for every following times because of no randomness for its enrage pattern.

Cheesing duke fishron like this is a great idea, and great ideas are always spreading. Anyone have seen its design in game (or media with ruler added) can make a copy with minimum efforts (wood + iron + hammer + several booster track). In addition, it don't have to be perfect. Especially if you get better minecart, survivability items(healing, damage dodging, buffs, etc.) and more players riding.

So, it's not easy, nor hard. But I'm posting here because of two reasons. First, they changed Reaver Shark and Meteorites, and these two are popular gear boosting strategies in expert mode. Duke fishron after Wall of Flesh should be the third. Second, the boosting effect of defeating duke fishron is super significant (than previous two). One can easily take all three mechanical bosses together with fishron weapons, essentially RUIN other players' experience in multiplayer.

I'm not sure if devs know this or not. Simply moves truffle worm spawn after plantera will work, but it may be a 'punish' for those who can really defeat duke fishron with gears before any mechanical bosses in ocean biome, which requires much more patience, skill and practice than just copying a rigid minetrack design.

 

[Stuffsss]

I'm going to disagree with you on just how easy this actually is. I've tried to set this up multiple times in my own worlds and i kept running into a few important drawbacks. First off Duke Fishron will pause in place during his transformations between his 1st and second form and his 2nd and 3rd expert mode exclusive forms. If he pauses ontop of the track to change forms you will cycle around and ram your cart into him taking large amounts of damage and potentially killing you if you don't have very high defense armor or damage dodging effects. Also it would be hard to really consider this an exploit as all this arena is an automated method for dodging a bosses attack. I understand that you beleive that duke fishron needs more complex AI in his enraged form but his enraged form is already almost a guaranteed instant kill for anyone in anything but post moonlord gear or extremely compentent at dodging his attacks.

 

[AkiVic]

I'm going to disagree with you on just how easy this actually is. I've tried to set this up multiple times in my own worlds and i kept running into a few important drawbacks. First off Duke Fishron will pause in place during his transformations between his 1st and second form and his 2nd and 3rd expert mode exclusive forms. If he pauses ontop of the track to change forms you will cycle around and ram your cart into him taking large amounts of damage and potentially killing you if you don't have very high defense armor or damage dodging effects. Also it would be hard to really consider this an exploit as all this arena is an automated method for dodging a bosses attack. I understand that you beleive that duke fishron needs more complex AI in his enraged form but his enraged form is already almost a guaranteed instant kill for anyone in anything but post moonlord gear or extremely compentent at dodging his attacks.

Pausing ontop of the track is not guaranteed.
And even if you get hit, one hit will not kill (~300HP). Getting hit on small-cicle tracks could be lethal, but multiplying length of the minetrack could prevent ramming twice and make this system less sensitive to minor error in length.

 

[deut]

thanks for the uh tip on how to shorten my playthroughs by a few hours

 

[|.Terrarian.|]

thanks for the uh tip on how to shorten my playthroughs by a few hours

Yeah like what? Duke Fishron is so hard for me I defeat Moon Lord before Duke xD.

It's your choice if you want to cheese the Fishron fight, just like how it was your choice if you wanted to use a Daedalus Stormbow or if you want to Nurse abuse.

While the minecart track thing seems to be super easy I feel like if I tried to do that I'd never get it right and just waste time trying to cheese when I could just practice getting good.

This seems like the type of thing where you originally had so much trouble with the boss you searched up how to beat it and now it's too easy, because speaking for myself and the other commentor's reactions, none of us knew it could be that easy xD

 

[Dapling]

Eh... this won’t really affect me too much. I can already kill him with a single layer of platforms over the ocean at the start of hardmode. I don’t think this would really help anything.

 

[AkiVic]

Eh... this won’t really affect me too much. I can already kill him with a single layer of platforms over the ocean at the start of hardmode. I don’t think this would really help anything.

With new Terraboot we don't even need platform xD

The problem is duke fishron doesn't obey the rule - "enraged boss should be significantly harder to kill". I've tried most enraged boss fights and find out his enraged mode could be an obvious weakness. I believe devs think "ok we just give it infinite superfast lunge and it should wipe out any player in a matter of seconds" and I'm proving they're wrong.
Listing the possible consequences like getting op weapons doesn't change the fact that this enrage pattern is a lazy and bad design that does not suffice.

 

[Cutcut]

Confirming from my end that this works in Master Mode too. (No reason why it shouldn't anyway)

I haven't gotten it to work with the mechanical cart yet but I suspect increasing the rail by about 50% should do the trick.

 

[smeagolheart]

Eh... this won’t really affect me too much. I can already kill him with a single layer of platforms over the ocean at the start of hardmode. I don’t think this would really help anything.

Let me guess, using the Copper Shortsword?

 

[Dapling]

Let me guess, using the Copper Shortsword?

Haha, funny.
Orichalcum armor with the stormbow, actually. They may have nerfed it but it’s still at least average in power minimum.

Being able to EASILY kill master mode mech bosses in under two minutes is not bad, people.

 

[Gotcha!]

The Duke doesn't need a buff; people just shouldn't cheese him if they are bothered by it. Problem solved. Don't make a boss harder for regular players just because some players outsmart the game.

 

[Ambaire]

The Duke doesn't need a buff; people just shouldn't cheese him if they are bothered by it. Problem solved. Don't make a boss harder for regular players just because some players outsmart the game.

Design a game for the 95/99%, not for the 5%/1%. Agreed. Even if it may be a very vocal minority sometimes, they should NOT be listened to.

 

[Dapling]

Design a game for the 95/99%, not for the 5%/1%. Agreed. Even if it may be a very vocal minority sometimes, they should NOT be listened to.

Well, I mean, if a form of cheese actually requires creativity to execute (so NOT nurse cheese in 1.3.5), can you really call it cheese so much as good planning? I don’t think you should patch a specific elaborate contraption that takes even more effort to construct than beating the boss normally, even if it makes said boss easily permanently.

 

[Fortuna Major]

Sorry for the late post, but can someone post the dimensions for master mode? I cant seem to get it right.

 

[QUEENOFCHICKENS]

i have NOO idea what ur talking about, i think hes hard enough, but i get your point of view, although i do believe that if it becomes random then hed probably be WAY too hard, but still, i get what u mean, whos side am i on?

 

[smeagolheart]

Sorry for the late post, but can someone post the dimensions for master mode? I cant seem to get it right.

Or could someone post a tedit schematic that we can plop in and see the dimensions that way you don't even have to measure it...

I can't get the final mode to work. slaughter in phase 3. I can get past the first two phases.. By the way this method takes forever due to Duke Fishron's increased armor