Weapons & Equip Balance and Weapon rework suggestions

AngryNimbus

AngryNimbus

Terrarian
Dear Re-logic team and forum members!
Thank you for the game I've been playing for 7 years, since 1.2.3.
Want to share some suggestions with you, concerning weapon reworks or balance.
Completely agreed with the CellarDoor96's post and would like to add something.
CellarDoor96 said:
So after having a bit of time to play with the current game balance as of 1.4.1.2, I think that the game for the most part is more balanced than ever before, but I do have a few suggestions. Since content development is ended and the devs are moving on to other projects now, these suggestions are all ones that I think would be pretty easy to implement, i.e. no new items or mechanics, although I'm not a coder so I could be wrong about some of them. Anyway, I don't know how likely the devs are to implement any more balance tweaks at this time, but I think that these changes would definitely help polish off the game and leave it as reasonably balanced as it could be.

After 1.4 and 1.4.1 buffed the Rainbow Crystal Staff, the Lunar Portal Staff now finds itself basically outclassed. Since there's no longer any incentive to use multiple types of sentries, and the RCS now performs better than the LPS in pretty much every situation, there's no reason ever to use the LPS unless it just happens to drop first. I think that an ideal buff would be something along the lines of letting the LPS fire multiple beams at once, but short of that, increasing its base damage to around 80-100 would also put it in a more comfortable place. (Honestly, I would actually buff both the RCS and LPS to like 180 and 120 damage respectively, since they're both still underwhelming compared to other Moon Lord drops - even considering that they're only supposed to be support - but if you're only trying to bring the LPS up to par with the RCS then something like 90 would work.)
Still the worst Frost Moon drop, even after its buff in 1.4. Tbh there is no reason that any item restricted to post-Plantera should inflict the basic On Fire debuff, since even by like late prehardmode 4 DPS is negligible. I suggest making it inflict Frostbite like the Frost Armor, along with making its fire blue to match.
Even after its speed was buffed, it's still just too slow to be worth it even with its insane range. I suggest bumping its mining speed to like 4. That way it'll still be slower than the Luminite Drills and Luminite Pickaxes/Picksaw + a decent mining speed setup, but not too much slower.
It's not trash anymore, but it still needs a little something to compete with the Firecracker. Ideally something like, having the snowflake tag enemies instead of dealing damage itself, but short of that changing the Frostburn debuff to Frostbite would help give it an edge.
It's better than before but still outclassed by the Xeno Staff, mostly because of its accuracy. I have no idea how difficult this would be to implement, but the best thing for the Tempest Staff would be to have the Sharknadoes try to get closer to enemies before they shoot, to reduce the amount of missed shots. Failing that, I'd honestly suggest just raising the projectile velocity again, because right now it isn't enough.
Pretty much the same critiques as for the Tempest Staff tbh. Minions that shoot projectiles from a distance are inherently worse than minions that chase enemies themselves, because fired projectiles usually don't home and minions don't know how to lead their shots. I'd make the same suggestions for the Pygmies as for the Sharknadoes.
Unlike most of the other items discussed here, I think the Wand of Sparking is now a little too good. Just a little, though. I'd revert either the damage buff or the crit buff from 1.4, because I don't think it really needed both.
All caps because out of everything on this list this is probably the thing I personally want the most, lol. Put simply: MORE SPEED PLS. Sure, there are wings that can give you plenty of horizontal speed, but it would just be a great QoL improvement if the speed bonuses on the endgame armors were bumped up just a little. At endgame most of your time is going to be spent building or doing other menial things, not fighting, and when you do fight most things will melt in seconds anyway, so tbh speed bonuses are more appreciated than combat ones. I don't think it would be too much to ask for the Luminite armors to have their speed bumped up to be at least on par with the Tavernkeep armors, so around 20-30% each. I'd suggest a 30% boost for Solar Flare, 20% for the other three.
After the introduction of the Celestial Starboard, the Luminite Wings pretty much have no purpose in Expert and Master modes anymore. They are still useful in Classic, but I think that even in Classic mode the game would benefit from the following simple change: removing the Luminite from the Luminite Wings' recipes. This would make them craftable before the Moon Lord fight, which would give players better mobility in that fight than before, but tbh I think it would benefit the fight as a whole. Sure it would be easier, but I don't think it would make it that much easier, and imo it would also make it more fun.
Please for the love of god give this autofire.
Its DPS is just not high enough to compensate for its short range, especially considering the Fetid Baghnakhs are available before it and do like twice as much DPS, even with the defense penetration. Honestly I would suggest tripling, yes tripling, the Arkhalis's base damage, or else increasing its slash size dramatically.
A similar case to the Arkhalis, though slightly less dire. But like the Arkhalis, Starlight's DPS, while high, just isn't enough to compensate for its short range, so I'd suggest either increasing its range by about 50% or buffing its base damage to like 90-100.
The Stardust Cells are definitely not bad, but they're just not as good as the Stardust Dragon. Unlike the Tempest and Pygmy Staffs, their projectiles do home, so their problem is not accuracy, but rather just plain DPS. Yes, they fire extra shots at targets you're actively attacking, but the problem is that not only is this still not enough to keep up, but those extra shots frequently do nothing because the target is still invulnerable from the attack you just hit it with. I'd suggest increasing their fire rate, probably by something like 30-50%. That sounds like a lot, but even then, the Stardust Dragon will still do more DPS; the goal isn't to make the Cells as strong as the Dragon, but rather to close the gap just enough that their crowd control advantages will outweigh their lower damage.
It's not bad by any means, but similar to the Elf Melter up above, there's no reason any post-Plantera item should be inflicting the basic Poisoned debuff. At minimum it should be changed to Acid Venom instead, but increasing the damage, velocity, or number of the spores could also improve this item.
It's pretty bad. I think either the damage or fire rate of the projectiles should be increased, but also their velocity and/or range needs some help.

I'll probably add more things as they occur to me, but feel free to discuss in the meantime.
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I don't have an exhausting knowledge of game mechanics, so it is likely that something was misunderstood.
North Pole is an incredibly dominant weapon in theory, but its 1.2.3 rework (projectile cap) is a bit disappointing. It does not affect performance if shot horizontally, however when shot upwards (or high in air), snowflake density and damage greatly decrease. It makes this mechanic outdated in 1.4, as many bosses are aerial (Duke Fishron) or small and fast (Empress of light). I suggest reworking it to be similar to cursed darts, where flames disappear after falling, rather than become less in quantity and less damaging.

Deadly Sphere Staff is a really cool looking minion, with some easily solved flaws. Suggestion: reduce cooldown a bit more. It has been already decreased from 10 to 8, but still, even with all-menacing build and spooky armor they give only ~900 DPS on single-targets. That’s is low-ish for the post-Plantera. You may also concider a simple damage buff (for about 25%), to make it more viable with the Firecracker, but it'll not solve per-slot scaling problems by much. Synergy with whips needs to be improved, (fixed amount of hits/sec = bad with dark harvest; mediocre base damage = not good with the Firecracker) Aggression range and ramming speed is also low a bit.

Is it possible to make Flairon to act similarly as Journey End flails? (Make bubbles bounce for the ground attack and increase their velocity + lifetime for spinning attack)

Increase fire rate of Flower Pow projectiles a bit in all modes.

Piranha gun should have more velocity, it unlatches during EoL fight. It may be a bit OP, but at least one piranha needs to instantly go through blocks. Rangers do not have such type of weapons, and Piranha homing ability should pair well with it.

Add chance not to consume ammo to the Super Star Shooter (50%-66%), as it not an ultimate weapon in HM, like the Star cannon was and to the Coin Gun (25%). Add piercing (with HV bullet-like mechanics) for gold and platinum coins.

Shadowbeam staff still has low DPS even against 10 enemies, single-target DPS is disappointing. Smart bounce mechanics, like with chlorophyte arrows, should also improve its efficiency in enclosed areas.

Cool whip's snowflake should be more agressive and damaging, more like the Blade Staff minions.

Star Wrath – make the projectiles non-piercing, nerf their damage if needed.

Reduce Terrarian's i-frame cooldown.

Buff Magical Harp's knockback and overall velocity.

Add some type of secondary right-click attack or projectile to HM ore swords and spears, and (maybe) the same for Nights Edge. As for spears, Storm Spears' way of range-increase works pretty well.

If some of you happen to read this post, feel free to leave your thoughts on this, I’ll answer as soon as possible. Some more suggestions may be added later.

Make Angry Nimbuses invincible and oneshotting for players, it is fun, trust me. Reduce Nimbus Rod drop rate to 1 in 1000000.
 
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For
north Ice pole thing:
What I suggest is having a reduced attack time and for the snowflakes,instead of having the snowflaeks stay afloat in air,i t drops the second it get's thrown in the air.
let me explain.the snowflakes should be more like gyrating shurikens that drop immediately and have a fast spin animation.
for flairon:
I think the bubbles are too op,but it to compensate,the flairon gets strong knockback when it spins.
Cool whip:
it should be much,much faster.rights now it is very slow and can barely keep up with bosses like the twins and duke fishron.
Shadowbeam staff:
*Sigh* what to say about this?
it should be fast and should disrupt/freeze enemies for a few second to compensate for the low dps
that's all for now!
 
AngryNimbus said:
Deadly Sphere Staff is a really cool looking minion, with some easily solved flaws. Suggestion: reduce cooldown a bit more. It was already decreased from 10 to 8, but still, even with all-menacing build and spooky armor they give only ~900 DPS on single-targets. That’s is low-ish for the post-Plantera. You may also concider a simple damage buff (for about 25%), to make it more viable with the Firecracker, but it'll not solve per-slot scaling problems by much. Synergy with whips needs to be improved, (fixed amount of hits/sec = bad with dark harvest; mediocre base damage = not good with the Firecracker) Aggression range and ramming speed is also low a bit.
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I think the easiest solution to this is to just give them individual iframes. They could also use more aggro range.

AngryNimbus said:
Increase fire rate of Flower Pow projectiles a bit in all modes.
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I find Flower Pow pretty decent, actually. Got it on my first Plantera kill recently and it does really well at what flails do, as well as stunlocking and disrupting multiple enemies in its dropped form. It’s just tbat Seedler is so strong that this weapon becomes unappreciated by comparison.

AngryNimbus said:
Star Wrath – make the projectiles non-piercing, nerf their damage if needed.
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This, yes. Star Wrath is such a disappointment because of iframes, with poor DPS and really trash range. I’d also give the stars slight homing, make it a single target focused weapon to contrast with Meowmere.

AngryNimbus said:
Buff Meowmere, it has low DPS and velocity, lower than other ML weapons and attacking with the sword itself is worthless.
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I actually disagree, Meowmere is a disappointment for single target, but it has uncompeted power for crowds (namely Pillars) because you’re throwing a stupid number of piercing projectiles with small AoE explosions, that bounce around and flood an area with high base damage. I’d just make it not deflected by Selenians (although that’s an issue with Selenians to begin with, not Meowmere) and maybe half the blade’s use time so it swings twice per projectile cycle.
 
CursedSliver said:
By that I meant without global immunity frames, like how you can shoot luminate bullets really fast and rapid and it pierces but it still accounts all of the damage
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Understood (didn't know that) . Its a good thing for the meowmere too, since summoners may use this as a secondary
 
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Changes that are more complicated than tweaking some numbers or setting a value are unlikely to be implemented at this time. So for the Shadowbeam Staff, for example, I'd just suggest increasing its base damage or reducing its use time rather than something like smart bounce.

Deadly Sphere Staff does need local immunity, though. I don't know how difficult that is to program, but honestly all minions should just have local immunity by default. And I agree about the Star Wrath too, it's worse than the Meowmere for crowds and the Terrarian for single targets, so it's just kind of outclassed at everything it does. The only niche it has at all is hitting stuff from behind blocks, but that strategy has been heavily nerfed. Giving its stars local immunity would probably be the most ideal buff.

Speaking of the Star Wrath actually, I really wish its stars behaved like the Lunar Flare's projectiles so it was actually usable underground. Probably too much to ask now though.
 
CellarDoor96 said:
Deadly Sphere Staff does need local immunity, though. I don't know how difficult that is to program, but honestly all minions should just have local immunity by default. And I agree about the Star Wrath too, it's worse than the Meowmere for crowds and the Terrarian for single targets, so it's just kind of outclassed at everything it does. The only niche it has at all is hitting stuff from behind blocks, but that strategy has been heavily nerfed. Giving its stars local immunity would probably be the most ideal buff.
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I agree all minions should have local immunity, and if that's too much then they should get a damage nerf to compensate....
It's not hard to code it's like 3 lines to give a minion local immunity, or at least its 3 lines when I make a modded projectile with it.

However I suggested this back when the official balance discussion page was open and Leinfors said that Red wouldn't allow any old minions to gain local immunity... no compromising.
 
Maybe it is even better, because imagine that all Terraria weapons are good. Thats boring. Can partially kill interest in experiencing new content
Because of the question "Why should I try to obtain something different if the current one is okay?"

HM summoner progression would be like
if all weapons would be flawless

1.spider staff (now latches on flying bosses reliably, why do I need the Pirate Invasion?
2. optic staff (buffed a bit (i-frames 12 to 8), not the best, but why should I kill grindy Dreadnautilus and optional Queen Slime?
3.pygmy staff is decent now. Then why should I grind for the desert key? In Classic mode it would probably last up until Xeno/Dragon

You'll be bound to the main progression
Mechs-Plantera-Golem-Lunar in this case
For the first playthrough, of course
 
The idea, I think, is to make different weapons good at different things. Either that, or make them equivalent to others that can be obtained at the same tier. Right now, for instance, there's no reason to get the Deadly Sphere Staff when the Sanguine and Blade Staffs are just better, and available much earlier.
 
AngryNimbus said:
Maybe it is even better, because imagine that all Terraria weapons are good. Thats boring. Can partially kill interest in experiencing new content
Because of the question "Why should I try to obtain something different if the current one is okay?"

HM summoner progression would be like
if all weapons would be flawless

1.spider staff (now latches on flying bosses reliably, why do I need the Pirate Invasion?
2. optic staff (buffed a bit (i-frames 12 to 8), not the best, but why should I kill grindy Dreadnautilus and optional Queen Slime?
3.pygmy staff is decent now. Then why should I grind for the desert key? In Classic mode it would probably last up until Xeno/Dragon

You'll be bound to the main progression
Mechs-Plantera-Golem-Lunar in this case
For the first playthrough, of course
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Nah, I disagree. It’s fine if most weapons are equal in strength for their tier, as long as they fulfill different niches.

For example, Optic and Deadly Sphere *should* be great minions for crowds (they desperately need buffs) while Blades and Sanguines are be single target focused; and Blades is separate from Sanguines in that it profits more in pure summoner builds. Then Pirate preforms insanely well on the ground but is basically incompotent in aerial battles. Or later on, you could make Pygmies great on the ground, and you have Desert Tiger for single target or Ravens+Harvest for crowds.

It’s also fine to make multiple weapons in a tier good at the same thing to give the player options. Razorpine and Bat Scepter are roughly the same tier, and are both single target focused but Razorpine has much more immediate DPS whils Bat Scepter is much more effective at longer distances.

Lastly, what you said about progression being singled out is an even bigger problem when something is just better. Yeah you might not want to get Sanguines if they were nerfed to be about the same strength as Blades, but what about Sanguines right now? Almost nobody even considers other options because Sanguines are just better.

Of course, some weapons will always be better than others but I don’t think it’d be a bad thing for most weapons to be as equal in strength as the others as possible.
 
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AngryNimbus said:
Maybe it is even better, because imagine that all Terraria weapons are good. Thats boring. Can partially kill interest in experiencing new content
Because of the question "Why should I try to obtain something different if the current one is okay?"

HM summoner progression would be like
if all weapons would be flawless

1.spider staff (now latches on flying bosses reliably, why do I need the Pirate Invasion?
2. optic staff (buffed a bit (i-frames 12 to 8), not the best, but why should I kill grindy Dreadnautilus and optional Queen Slime?
3.pygmy staff is decent now. Then why should I grind for the desert key? In Classic mode it would probably last up until Xeno/Dragon

You'll be bound to the main progression
Mechs-Plantera-Golem-Lunar in this case
For the first playthrough, of course
Click to expand...
Well if only some weapons in Terraria are good, there's no point in "experiencing new content" when the weapon you have already is better than the weapons that you can only get later in progression. Also, there isn't really a way to not be "bound to the main progression". If you want to kill the Moon Lord and "beat" the game, you have to defeat the Mechs, Plantera, Golem, and Lunar Events.
 
Thanks for you opinions, the are all right
I tried to see the positive, since about 2/3 of all weapons range from "fine" to "excellent" and is already a very good result for a game with 500+ of them in total
 
Tested Meowmere aganist Solar Eruption & Daybreak combo
(It should win, if not – underpowered)

Moon Lord: Daybreak is slightly better
Pillars: Meowmere wins
Moons/OOA T3 if not finished: Meowmere wins
Lunatic Cultist — a tie. Daybreak is better in terms of DPS, but really hard to aim
Solar eruption needs to be in a point-blank range to outdamage Meowmere or Daybreak.
Meowmere can hit a false copy accidentally, but it doesnt matter really; it decimates the Phantasmal Dragon
3:2, Meowmere wins

A tier higher — a bit better
Considering melee philosophy (endgame = meowmere - > zenith; every other class just recieves its final weapon, between those in power), it is fine
So, suggestion deleted

Let's move on to the Star Wrath vs. Daybreak & Eruption combo.
Moon lord: Daybreak is better.
Lunar events: for me it was more convenient than Eruption, so Star Wrath (+ cannot be reflected)
OOA T3– Solar Eruption wins.
Moons – a tie. Daybreak is simply not designed for those, Solar Eruption has less range (half of the screen vs full screen). DPS is also on Star Wrath's side.
Lunatic Cultist – Star Wrath, kills slightly faster than Eruption, and idk, its easier to aim than the Daybreak
3:3, should be buffed, as its a higher tier weapon

The Terrarian is fine, but when I imagine how much dps it actually loses using piercing mechanics, it drives me crazy
 
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I have an idea for the night's edge and hardmode ore swords.
there could be this feature where the more you keep your roght clicked held,the more damage it would get up to a limit.
isnpired by overhaul.
 
Wanted to include the Imp Staff to the list, but it turned out that it is good!
Effective vs Skeletron (misses quite rarely + good damage), excellent vs OOA T1 with a couple of frogs
New cooldown is only for 6 frames instead of 10, so realistically speaking, it is not a great issue – scales well until 4-5 minions
(you'll almost never have more in pre-HM)
The only drawback – poor dps boost from tag damage. Use with 2 frogs.

Theoretical single-DPS is also up to its tier ~27*10 = 270 DPS (as with the Bees Knees+ hive pack in crimson armor)
 
AngryNimbus said:
Wanted to include the Imp Staff to the list, but it turned out that it is good!
Effective vs Skeletron (misses quite rarely + good damage), excellent vs OOA T1 with a couple of frogs
New cooldown is only for 6 frames instead of 10, so realistically speaking, it is not a great issue – scales well until 4-5 minions
(you'll almost never have more in pre-HM)
The only drawback – poor dps boost from tag damage. Use with 2 frogs.

Theoretical single-DPS is also up to its tier ~27*10 = 270 DPS (as with the Bees Knees+ hive pack in crimson armor)
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The problem I have with the imp staff is that the flinx staff seems to out perform it... a weapon you get at the beginning of the game.
Even though its base damage is lower it attacks much faster and its much better at distrubing enemies, and if you bring whips into the equiation there is no competition.

Sure once you get 3 flinxes they'll attack so fast that you'll want to use another minion... the vampire frog, imp gets the honor of being your 6th minion and at that point I'd ask... why are you using bee armor?
 
I wouldn’t say Flinxes are the best prehardmode minion, if that’s what you’re getting at. Vampire Frogs’ combined body and tongue have easily more DPS by a big enough margin to make up for the difference in AI, which isn’t even that severe, and Frogs can jump through multiple targets at once. Vampires do have iframe clashes though, so it doesn’t hurt to run another minion with them.

I do agree that Imp isn’t very viable though. The issue comes from the fact that Imps are the least viable minion to fill in for slots not occupied by Frogs, not counting finch and slime (don’t). A Flinx and Snapthorn pulls 14 damage per hit, while an Imp with the same whip pulls 23... and we all know the difference in attack rate between the two. In fact, I’d also say Hornet is better than Imp for single target with their slightly higher fire rate, can’t be interrupted, and greater benefit from whip tags.
 
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