tModLoader Experience and Classes

[Saerus]

My quick two cents: I believe it could be decent enough to make the drop rate for Ascension orbs be something like 1% with the current requirements, while at the same time lowering the amount of EXP they give on usage to about 100 points and changing the boss orb:monster orb conversion rate to 1:5 or something and the amount of orbs bosses drop to something based on how much HP they have in total, just to make it so farming EoC and Twins isn't worth the same thing. That way, orbs become something that you can use to progress more quickly instead of saving to jobchange because they're so ungodly rare, or things that you might only ever see at a decent rate after beating bosses and converting boss orbs.

Another option could be making them give a percentage of the amount of EXP you need for the next level, maybe 1-5% I guess.

Keep in mind that I've barely played with this mod yet so I have no idea of how balance is at higher levels, both stat and experience-wise.

In the next version, the Ascension droprate is raised to 1/150 (from 1/200) and the experience exchange of both orbs scales with class tier:
Tier I: Ascension 125, Boss 250
Tier II: Ascension 250, Boss 500
Tier III: Ascension 500, Boss 1000
Tier III @ Level 50+: Ascension 1000, Boss 2000

I have also removed the limitation that Ascension Orbs only drop from monsters with base experience greater than one.

I do like the idea of granting percentage experience. Unfortunately, that would not be possible through the crafting system because recipes are predefined. All I can do in-game (that I know of) is toggle their visibility. I like the crafting system because it is so intuitive, but I wouldn't be opposed to switching experience conversion to a / command.

I agree that EoC dropping the same number of Boss Orbs as harder bosses is a bit strange. However, harder bosses still give much better experience overall so it is not as bad as it seems.
For example, at Tier III @ Level 50+, EoC would net a solo, expert player 176 experience and 1/4 Boss Orb = 676. The same player could get 14,640 experience and 1/4 Boss Orb from the destroyer = 15,140. This means that the destroyer gives this player 22 times more experience than EoC despite the easy Boss Orbs.

My intention with the Ascension and Boss Orbs is for them to be rare but obtainable at every stage of the game, and to be mostly used for class advancements and a little bit of extra experience at endgame.

Edit: Update on v1.1.0/v1.1.1
New version is up.

v1.1.1
-no actual changes, just updated the description

v1.1.0
-new command /expbartrans toggles UI transparency
-improved the check for whether a character has found an Ascension Orb before (no longer counts picking one up that has been dropped by a player)
-class tokens can no longer gain a prefix when crafted although the text above your head may include one (you can still add/change prefix)
-Ascension Orb drop rate increased to 1/150 (from 1/200)
-Ascension Orb and Boss Orb rate of exchange for experience now varies with current class Tier (125/250, 250/500, 500/1000, and then 1000/2000 at level 50+ of Tier III)
-individual exprate is no longer applied in multiplayer (uses global rate instead)
-individual ignore class caps is no longer applied in multiplayer (uses global bool instead)
-fixed a bug that could allow Saint to have level 2 and level 3 Defense Aura
-fixed a bug where Cleric Ichor Aura debuff lasted slightly too long
-Saint Life Aura now heals friendly NPCs too
-added announcements for finding Ascension Orb, Boss Orb, levelup, leveldown, craft Tier II, craft Tier III
-when a player acquires the mod by joining a server that uses it, the experience bar visibility bug should no longer occur and the player will be given a Novice Token to start (if they have room)
-tiers in class token names changed to roman numerals
-timing converted from ticks to milliseconds, no longer affected by pausing time with HERO's mod
-assassin operner attack can trigger every 2000milliseconds (and on any hits aginst full-life targets)
-periodic effects trigger every 5000milliseconds
-Ichor Aura duration adjusted to fit new trigger interval
-Saint Ichor Aura duration is now nearly twice Cleric
-several optimizations with auras
-all timing now uses real time instead of in-game ticks (more reliable, doesn't stop when pausing with HERO's mod)
-new command /expbarreset will reset the position, visibility, and transparency of experience bar
-Ascension Orb now also drop from monsters that give 1 experience (e.g., early slimes)
-multiplayer now has a auth feature, the code will display in the console, players can enter /expauth <code> to gain auth, enter /auth to check your status
-functions that adjust experience, rates, or class caps now require auth in multiplayer
-when a server is brought online, exprate defaults to 100%, ignore class caps defaults to FALSE, and authentications are reset
-many optimizations and organizations (too many to list)
-server now handles the experience in multiplayer (so many internal changes)
-to prevent potential experience reset bugs, the server cannot change an experience value until the player's initial sync is complete. the initial sync should occur within 500 msec of connection and repeats until successful. if, somehow, the sync is not possible then a server-wide warning messages will be sent out each time the server tries and fails to alter your experience value. if this ever happens, relogging will probably fix whatever is happening (please also report it to me)
-memory usage should be around 0.5mb highers

 

[Praetarius5018]

First of, cool mod, I like it!

So a few ideas/suggestions:
-the starter class should give 1 HP per level instead of 0.5; it does almost nothing for the time until you get a next class. 1-5 HP won't let us survive another hit even early game making it feel like a dead slot.

-maybe a recipe for Ascension Orbs so it is not completely luck based when you get your first class?
heart crystal + mana crystal + 20 gold/platinum bars
not completely free but certainly doable if luck wasn't on your side

-maybe add a "100" and "10000" version of exp orbs so we can eat the exp faster; with recipe to convert 100x 1 exp orbs to 1x 100 orb, etc.
I know we could use the command line but that always feels a bit cheaty to me, just a personal thing

-configurable level cap would be cool.

-would it be possible to add a configuration for stat growths? not per class but in general, e.g. if I'd set damage to 200% every class has double the damage values
with most of the stats I'm ok, but personally I'd like to cut damage bonuses down to 1/4 of what they are.
On expert with lv100 I can barely take one hit more than vanilla but damage output is just way too high.
So with those last two options, I could set cap to 50 and damage to 25% of what we have now and get something quite close to a "balanced accessoire" out of it; e.g. Sage would cap at 12% damage bonus with a couple more bonuses making it close to Celestial Shell

 

[harenm]

I seem to be unable to authorize myself for the server. I'm using like /auth 123456789

Am I doing this wrong?

 

[Saerus]

Thanks for the feedback!

So a few ideas/suggestions:
-the starter class should give 1 HP per level instead of 0.5; it does almost nothing for the time until you get a next class. 1-5 HP won't let us survive another hit even early game making it feel like a dead slot.

11/22 classes, including Novice, have a life growth rate of 0.5/level. Novice will not be increased unless the others are, and that is unlikely because giving these classes more than 25-50hp at high level (50-100) would probably be too much. The Novice Token isn't meant to be good on its own - it allows you to gain experience.

-maybe a recipe for Ascension Orbs so it is not completely luck based when you get your first class?
heart crystal + mana crystal + 20 gold/platinum bars
not completely free but certainly doable if luck wasn't on your side

Great idea! I'll get that into the next version. This will also help anyone who is more interested in mining than fighting.

That said, you would have to be very unlucky to not find a single Ascension Orb by Tier II. The droprate was just bumped up to 1/150 (from 1/200) and each character has a 1/75 rate until they find their first one.

-maybe add a "100" and "10000" version of exp orbs so we can eat the exp faster; with recipe to convert 100x 1 exp orbs to 1x 100 orb, etc.
I know we could use the command line but that always feels a bit cheaty to me, just a personal thing

I'll consider it, but I don't really see anything wrong with /expuse .

-configurable level cap would be cool.

You could "/exprate 0" to stop progression when you reach the level that you would like to stop at.

-would it be possible to add a configuration for stat growths? not per class but in general, e.g. if I'd set damage to 200% every class has double the damage values
with most of the stats I'm ok, but personally I'd like to cut damage bonuses down to 1/4 of what they are.
On expert with lv100 I can barely take one hit more than vanilla but damage output is just way too high.
So with those last two options, I could set cap to 50 and damage to 25% of what we have now and get something quite close to a "balanced accessoire" out of it; e.g. Sage would cap at 12% damage bonus with a couple more bonuses making it close to Celestial Shell

I am considering adding some config files. If I do, there will most likely be a field for overall damage. In the meantime, maybe some of the ideas in the Difficulty section of the main post can help.

When considering balance, please keep in mind that level 100 is truly insane to attain without cheat commands. Anything above 42 is "high" and 65 is basically the soft cap. After that, players can continue to grind as far as they like but the requirements grow very quickly. Anything above 95 is darn near impossible.
[doublepost=1483871620,1483871468][/doublepost]

I seem to be unable to authorize myself for the server. I'm using like /auth 123456789

Am I doing this wrong?

/expauth

Sorry about that. I can't tell you how many times I typed /auth during testing. I have updated the main post.

 

[sm644me]

I'll consider it, but I don't really see anything wrong with /expuse .

The thing that makes /expuse weird is that it's a command. Imagine if, when you got a few Heart Crystals, you had to type /heartuse 3 in order to use them. It works fine, it just doesn't feel right.

 

[Praetarius5018]

11/22 classes, including Novice, have a life growth rate of 0.5/level. Novice will not be increased unless the others are, and that is unlikely because giving these classes more than 25-50hp at high level (50-100) would probably be too much. The Novice Token isn't meant to be good on its own - it allows you to gain experience.

Why should it not be possible for those other "low health" classes to be a downgrade in that one regard?
I mean if you get your tier 2 class at level 10, you get dropped to level 1 so all HP bonuses are gone anyway.
It doesn't need to be good, but at 4 HP before the ideal exchange point it feels like a wasted slot when even a lowly slime hits for 12 on expert.

I'll consider it, but I don't really see anything wrong with /expuse .

mostly a personal issue, it feels "off" to type a command for what should be a regular ingame action when nothing else requires doing that

You could "/exprate 0" to stop progression when you reach the level that you would like to stop at.

this works for singleplayer with a single character, but multiplayer?
or singleplayer with often switching between characters?
you'd have to retype basically every login and that gets tiring fast.

In the meantime, maybe some of the ideas in the Difficulty section of the main post can help.

I used most of those; but they kinda backfire?
Each time I make enemies stronger they automatically also give much more exp, so I have to readjust every few hours, otherwise it boils down to "everyone is a glass cannon".
Expert alone is almost a 4x multiplier because of 2x health and 2x damage.

When considering balance, please keep in mind that level 100 is truly insane to attain without cheat commands. Anything above 42 is "high" and 65 is basically the soft cap. After that, players can continue to grind as far as they like but the requirements grow very quickly. Anything above 95 is darn near impossible.

dunno, I activated this mod around the time I had beaten Golem the first time on that character.
I attained level 1 to 45 mostly by farming Plantera and Golem because both simply refused to drop the one item I wanted for about 30 times each.
Add a couple content mods and equally bad drop luck on other things and level 90 isn't that unreal anymore.



a more out of there idea:
would it be possible to allow equipping multiple tokens but reduce the effective level?
since it takes another slot by something like
level * 2 / (1+equipped tokens)
e.g. when you're normally level 50 and equip Mystic and Soul Binder you would get their bonuses but only as if you were level 33.

 

[updatedude]

Option 3, tier based XP sounds good.

Regarding the novice token, might I make a suggestion? Bring back XP gain without needing to equip a token.

The novice token can still be kept as material, but will basically be a flavor item.

I actually wrote but then deleted a couple looooong posts on this because it felt like I was being a negative Nancy. If you want, I can go into excruciating detail on why I think XP gain without equipping tokens should be brought back.
[doublepost=1483878976,1483878603][/doublepost]I actually think that config files might not be necessary. Just make version 0.2.2 available for those who want greater stat gains and a different Terraria experience. That will save you some work and the trouble of trying to please everyone. Which, is an impossibility.

Personally, I use v022 myself, although I update to the newest versions to help play test and contribute feedback.

 

[Zurich]

Is that direct download you sent me a long while back to date? I am still unable to download the latest version through the mod browser. Thanks in advance.

 

[Saerus]

Is that direct download you sent me a long while back to date? I am still unable to download the latest version through the mod browser. Thanks in advance.

I have added a link to the Installation section of the main post. I will try to remember to keep that up to date.

@sm644me @updatedude @Sierrus
Novice will not be buffed because starter classes simply aren't meant to provide large bonuses. However, I will allow experience gain without the token so you can view it as a flavour item if you choose.

Several of the ideas discussed will be implemented as follows:

v1.1.2 (planned)
-Ascension Orb recipe: heart crystal + mana crystal + 20 gold/platinum bars
-can now gain experience and view experience bar without a token equipped
-can now craft Experience Orbs into x100, x1000, x10000, x100000, and x1000000 for faster command-free consumption
-consumption of Experience Orbs is now faster
-can now equip multiple classes, but effective level is reduced for each (e.g., a level 50 with 2 classes gains the level 25 bonuses from each), cannot equip multiple of the same class *the order that you equip classes will affect certain bonuses (e.g., periodic %life regen) and there is no nice way around this
-new personal setting /explvlcap # to limit gaining experience past the specified level (will move to config file if that is implemented later), works in multiplayer (not global)
-new personal setting /expdmgred # to limit bonus damage stats (0-100, 0% reduction is normal, 50% reduction is half, 100% reduction is no bonus damage), works in multiplayer (not global); affects damage, attack speed, and critical rate

These are also on my radar:

-potentially implement Familiar: new minion class that is limited to one super-powered minion

-potentially add a passive to Mystic that allows them to build charge with each hit, lose charge over time, and when charge is full the next hit does bonus damage and resets the charges

 

[Praetarius5018]

-can now equip multiple classes, but effective level is reduced for each (e.g., a level 50 with 2 classes gains the level 25 bonuses from each)

I think a full cut is a bit too hard considering it also takes another accessoire slot.

 

[Saerus]

I think a full cut is a bit too hard considering it also takes another accessoire slot.

Due to linear scaling and several flat bonuses, there would be basically no reason not to multiclass if the level adjustment were any more liberal. Many users of this mod have made it clear that balance (especially in server mode) is very important to them. Yes, multiclassing takes more slots, but the potential power is extreme. High level classes already vastly outclass vanilla accessories and I do not want to push that any further.

 

[harenm]

I had a friend die, and I lost experience as if I had died. It almost seems like a reverse experience sharing.

 

[Saerus]

I had a friend die, and I lost experience as if I had died. It almost seems like a reverse experience sharing.

Did you actually lose exp or is it that you just received the "You have lost x experience." message? I have found a bug in the gain/lose experience messages that can potentially show you other people's messages. The fix will be in the next version.

If you actually lost experience, I will need more information to troubleshoot this. I just tested it and have not been able to reproduce the issue.

 

[Praetarius5018]

Due to linear scaling and several flat bonuses, there would be basically no reason not to multiclass if the level adjustment were any more liberal. Many users of this mod have made it clear that balance (especially in server mode) is very important to them. Yes, multiclassing takes more slots, but the potential power is extreme. High level classes already vastly outclass vanilla accessories and I do not want to push that any further.

No doubt does it need a penalty.

Are the "special" abilities subject to this penalty?
I admit "immunity to fall damage" is hard to split, but x% chance to inflict debuff should be possible.
I was under the impression the splittable specials would also get the penalty, that's why I proposed 2 / (1+equipped tokens) (100% / 66% / 50% / ...)
If they don't get the penalty, I said nothing.

 

[harenm]

Ok, might have been just the message. I wasn't sure. I hadn't paid attention to where the xp was before and deaths are kinda unexpected for us.

 

[Saerus]

No doubt does it need a penalty.

Are the "special" abilities subject to this penalty?
I admit "immunity to fall damage" is hard to split, but x% chance to inflict debuff should be possible.
I was under the impression the splittable specials would also get the penalty, that's why I proposed 2 / (1+equipped tokens) (100% / 66% / 50% / ...)
If they don't get the penalty, I said nothing.

There are a few kinds of bonuses

• most bonuses are "scaling bonuses", which give a benefit in linear relation to level (e.g., 0.5 life per level) *most common bonus type
• some unlocked bonuses are "flat bonuses", which give a flat value once unlocked (e.g., +2 max minions, Ichor Aura) *least common bonus type
• the trickiest bonuses are "unlocked scaling bonuses", which have a scaling effect starting at some unlock level (e.g., Damage Aura)

An example what would happen with "level * 2 / (1 + #class)" (or anything less than 50%) penalty:
Level 50 Sage
50 life
7.5 life regen
75 mana
15 mana regen delay
2 defense + 10 from aura = 12
50% magic damage
37.5% mana cost reduction
Periodic Mana (7.5%)

Level 50 Saint
50 life
5 life regen
75 mana
2 defense
25% mana cost reduction
Immune to Silence
Immune to Darkness
Immune to Confusion
Immune to Curse
On Hit Regen
Ichor Aura
Damage Aura (150 base damage)
Life Aura (75 life)

Level 50 Sage/Saint (ultimate aura combo)
66 life
7.45 life regen
99 mana
10 mana regen delay
2 defense + 5 from aura = 7 (this would increase gradually with level and then jump to 14 at level 75)
33% magic damage
41.25% mana cost reduction (caps at 40%)
Immune to Silence
Immune to Darkness
Immune to Confusion
Ichor Aura
Damage Aura (100 base damage)
Life Aura (50 life)
Periodic Mana (5%)

The overall combination is quite absurd. Several stats actually increase and most are barely reduced.

 

[Praetarius5018]

minor inconsistency with the auras?
the defense aura only has the lower level version while the other auras actually have their effect lowered

this gives me to think; values that are capped should probably get a stronger penalty or at least magic cost reduction and ammo consumption


so compared to pure Saint we get:
+16 life
+2.45 life regen
+24 mana
def aura
+33% magic damage
10 mana regen delay
inc. to magic cost reduction (I think those stack multiplicatively?)
periodic mana

we lose:
1 accessoire slot
on hit regen
Immune to Curse
a bit power of 3 auras


apart from the high magic damage I could see that as comparable to Celestial Shell in overall power,
but that I'd prefer lesser overall damage increases on classes have I already mentioned earlier

if in doubt, maybe add it as a configuration option?
I mean, depending on what other mods are used, there are some accessoires that would be more powerful than the above, imo.

 

[updatedude]

Once more I am impressed by the work you put into this mod. Thanks very much

 

[Saerus]

Once more I am impressed by the work you put into this mod. Thanks very much

You're welcome.

Have an update:

v1.1.2
-multiclassing is now possible by equipping multiple tokens, but effective level is divided (e.g., a level 50 with two classes is level 25 in each)
-fixed a bug that could prompt the "You have gained/lost x experience." message each time ANYONE gains experience in multiplayer
-Ascension Orb recipe: heart crystal + mana crystal + 20 gold/platinum bars
-can now gain experience and view experience bar without a token equipped
-can now craft Experience Orbs into x100, x1000, x10000, x100000, and x1000000 for faster command-free consumption (not consumed by /expuse)
-manual consumption of Experience Orbs is a faster animation
-fixed a possible crash from invalid command arguments
-new personal setting /explvlcap # to limit gaining experience past the specified level (will move to config file if that is implemented later), works in multiplayer (not global, set to -1 to disable, disabled by default)
-new personal setting /expdmgred # to limit bonus damage stats (0-100, 0% reduction is normal, 50% reduction is half, 100% reduction is no bonus damage), works in multiplayer (not global); affects damage, attack speed, and critical rate (set to -1 or 0 to disable, disabled by default)
-reorganized packet sender functions (performance improvement + less likely to introduce bugs)

 

[sm644me]

I think you misplaced a period somewhere, Hybrid II now gives an entire 5% chance to inflict Midas per level rather than 0.5%.

Although having a 345% chance to inflict a debuff is hilarious, I don't think it's intentional.