Weapons & Equip [Expert] Make the Crimson great again!

[delete this account_65433]

With just one change, I'll be willing to play crimson worlds again. The brain of confusion is so stupid. sooooooo stupid. Confusion isn't that good, it doesn't work on bosses, it's only a chance, it uses an accessory slot, and to use it, you need to get hit, which is frankly not an option with some of these expert mode enemies. I say, we make it an Ideal counterpart to the worm scarf. +17% critical strike chance. That way, there isn't an obvious imbalance between corruption or crimson in expert worlds. You use the Worm scarf for the whole game if you get it, and the brain of confusion you'll probably never equip, unless you just happen to have an extra slot and don't know what to put there.

+17% damage would be too boring, and the direct nature of just adding damage conflicts with the theme of the premeditated, lawful-evil, strategic theme of the Brain of Cthulhu. So, Crit chance fits better, and actually becomes more useful as the game progresses: In early game, you have few bonuses to damage or crit chance, so they stay mostly even. In Hardmode, though, you get increasing amounts of gear to boost your damage, and so precious little for your critical strike chance. If you do the math out, you max your DPS when your total Damage bonuses and your total Crit chance bonuses are equal, and so the 'Strategic Brain', which would be an appropriate name, I think, would counter this massive swaying towards the only-damage-matters mindset.

Plus, I need an incentive to even look at crimson worlds right now. The only benefits they have are the vampire knives (meh), and the easy BoC boss. Easy compared to the Eater of Worlds, of course, which I almost die to while trying to get the music box post-moon lord.

 

[•ӍλЯѴЇИ•]

I like it, would use on ranger builds

 

[neoselket]

i agree that the brain of confusion needs a buff, although i find your arguments about the strength of the crimson somewhat ill-founded. the vampire knives are amazing, with the proper melee loadout you can literally just stand still and be invincible. also, the crimson has ichor, which lowers enemy defense. also, the brain of cthulhu is harder than the eater of worlds, and if you can die to the eater of worlds after moon lord, you might be doing something wrong.

 

[Zidane471]

Yeah, Im going to second that crimson in general doesn't need a "buff". It is almost unarguably the better of the two variations. If anything Worm Scarf was a desperate attempt to make corrupt relevant again.

Also, 17% crit on a normal mode boss is FAR too powerful, especially if it is classless damage. It would clearly out perform the eye of golem which is mid hardmode. In fact, from what I read it would be the second most powerful damaging accessory in the game, behind destroyer emblem which is a total of 18%. (Sniper Scope also reaches 20% for ranged only.)

Excluding the Worm Scarf which is the anomaly, the other boss gear is designed to give the player a "special" ability. Rather than improving their combat stats.

King Slime - Slimes become passive
Eye of Cthulhu - Prehardmode damaging dash
Brain of Cthulhu - Long term confusion (comparable only to flask of nanites, and it is still better.)
Queen Bee - Bees (only) deal 15% extra dmg
Skeletron - One of the few powerful throwing weapons, can be modified and is unlimited (provided the player has bones)
Wall of Flesh - +1 accessory slot in expert mode
Mech Bosses - Max speed mine cart, fastest non exploit movement in the game (provided the player has mine track)
Plantera - Spore bombs that automatically attack enemies
Golem - Increased regen outside of combat
Duke Fishron - The most powerful mount in the game, unlimited flight, damage and movement bonuses
Moon Lord - ...lol, You beat the hardest boss on the hardest setting I guess, congrats.

It doesn't make sense to make Brain a direct damage related bonus as none of the others are. Again, I am very confident that Worm Scarf only exists to make corrupt not totally ignored. After all, of 14 bosses, the one expert mode accessory that everyone swears by just happens to be in the corrupt? Even when corruption has never had a history of defensive gear. I can understand changing confusion (though personally I don't see why) but, the replacement would need to be in a similar vein. Advanced Ichor debuff perhaps. Expert mode enemies have higher HP so increased damage after you take damage might be viable. Perhaps enemies lose 30 or 40 defense, effectively increasing player damage by 5 or 10 over normal Ichor debuff. Additionally, this is all prehardmode. Giving players early access to a powerful Ichor debuff.

 

[delete this account_65433]

i agree that the brain of confusion needs a buff, although i find your arguments about the strength of the crimson somewhat ill-founded. the vampire knives are amazing, with the proper melee loadout you can literally just stand still and be invincible. also, the crimson has ichor, which lowers enemy defense. also, the brain of cthulhu is harder than the eater of worlds, and if you can die to the eater of worlds after moon lord, you might be doing something wrong.

You must not spend much time in expert mode. The vampire knives are next to useless lategame, they're super rare, and they're entirely useless against the Moon Lord. The Pre-hardmode crimson enemies deal less damage than the corrupt ones, and you can easily avoid their damage with a cactus sword's knockback. Ichor is good, but limited in its usefulness. I agree, the Brain of Cthulhu is easier than the eater of worlds on normal mode, and dying to it post-moon lord would be a shame. But on expert mode, The Eater of worlds spams normally hardmode projectiles at you, while all the brain does is add a few easily identifiable replicas, and that only in the second phase. Add to that that I had to fight the thing for half an hour without damaging it to get the music box. And the powers of Nebula armor only take effect when you kill stuff. I'm effectively at the same level defensively as a late-prehardmode player. I dare you to survive with the expert eater of worlds for half an hour with molten armor. Not only that, but I didn't die, I got to, like, half health.

On that note, I mean no hostilities to you. Your arguments are well founded, but rather subjective at times, like mine. Remember that suggestions are opinions, and mine might be different than yours. If you find the crimson hard, whoop de do for you, But I think it could use a major buff in expert mode.

[doublepost=1481567502,1481566967][/doublepost]

Yeah, Im going to second that crimson in general doesn't need a "buff". It is almost unarguably the better of the two variations. If anything Worm Scarf was a desperate attempt to make corrupt relevant again.

Also, 17% crit on a normal mode boss is FAR too powerful, especially if it is classless damage. It would clearly out perform the eye of golem which is mid hardmode. In fact, from what I read it would be the second most powerful damaging accessory in the game, behind destroyer emblem which is a total of 18%. (Sniper Scope also reaches 20% for ranged only.)

Excluding the Worm Scarf which is the anomaly, the other boss gear is designed to give the player a "special" ability. Rather than improving their combat stats.

King Slime - Slimes become passive
Eye of Cthulhu - Prehardmode damaging dash
Brain of Cthulhu - Long term confusion (comparable only to flask of nanites, and it is still better.)
Queen Bee - Bees (only) deal 15% extra dmg
Skeletron - One of the few powerful throwing weapons, can be modified and is unlimited (provided the player has bones)
Wall of Flesh - +1 accessory slot in expert mode
Mech Bosses - Max speed mine cart, fastest non exploit movement in the game (provided the player has mine track)
Plantera - Spore bombs that automatically attack enemies
Golem - Increased regen outside of combat
Duke Fishron - The most powerful mount in the game, unlimited flight, damage and movement bonuses
Moon Lord - ...lol, You beat the hardest boss on the hardest setting I guess, congrats.

It doesn't make sense to make Brain a direct damage related bonus as none of the others are. Again, I am very confident that Worm Scarf only exists to make corrupt not totally ignored. After all, of 14 bosses, the one expert mode accessory that everyone swears by just happens to be in the corrupt? Even when corruption has never had a history of defensive gear. I can understand changing confusion (though personally I don't see why) but, the replacement would need to be in a similar vein. Advanced Ichor debuff perhaps. Expert mode enemies have higher HP so increased damage after you take damage might be viable. Perhaps enemies lose 30 or 40 defense, effectively increasing player damage by 5 or 10 over normal Ichor debuff. Additionally, this is all prehardmode. Giving players early access to a powerful Ichor debuff.

I agree, 17% crit would be rediculous on a normal mode boss, but you must remember, Expert drops only drop on Expert mode. Hence 'Expert Drops'.

Besides, I think the Worm Scarf is just as OP. -17% damage taken is the equivalent of SIXTY EIGHT DEFENCE against an attack of 300 damage, which is entirely possible in lategame expert mode, most notably from the Martian Deathray and Phantasmal Deathray, as well as the attacks of Red devils. I think you should know that 68 is more defence from one item than any other item in the game. In fact, you'd be better off wearing just the worm scarf against a phantasmal Deathray than full Turtle Armor, with its 65 defence. 17% extra damage is somewhat mild in comparison, don't you think?

As far as not fitting the game, That doesn't make sense. Why is the Corruption allowed to block so much damage if Crimson can't inflict a little more? Both of them stand out from the other expert mode items; that's the point.

 

[Zidane471]

I agree, 17% crit would be rediculous on a normal mode boss, but you must remember, Expert drops only drop on Expert mode. Hence 'Expert Drops'.

Besides, I think the Worm Scarf is just as OP. -17% damage taken is the equivalent of SIXTY EIGHT DEFENCE against an attack of 300 damage, which is entirely possible in lategame expert mode, most notably from the Martian Deathray and Phantasmal Deathray, as well as the attacks of Red devils. I think you should know that 68 is more defence from one item than any other item in the game. In fact, you'd be better off wearing just the worm scarf against a phantasmal Deathray than full Turtle Armor, with its 65 defence. 17% extra damage is somewhat mild in comparison, don't you think?

As far as not fitting the game, That doesn't make sense. Why is the Corruption allowed to block so much damage if Crimson can't inflict a little more? Both of them stand out from the other expert mode items; that's the point.

Even for expert mode, 17% outclasses it's own items. Its OP within its own mode. Additionally, expert items are allowed back into normal mode. I could progress up to Brain in expert mode, then face roll all the way through normal mode. (There is really no other expert mode drop that does that. Demon's Heart is locked to expert.)

You are right Worm Scarf is arguably OP, though the balance in Expert mode is somewhat questionable as is. But, this thread isn't a nerf to Worm Scarf, its asking another item be elevated to equally OP. Again, as I said before. Worm Scarf is an attempt to make Corrupt relevant. Without it, I can almost promise everyone would only use crimson as they do in normal mode.

Thing about percentages is, they grow in effectiveness based on the base value. Yeah, worm scarf blocks tons of damage on a heavily damaging attack, but next to nothing on weak attacks. Same is true for this suggestion. It is weak early but with things like Terrarian, Meowmere and other endgame items it is significantly more powerful. So the same argument for Worm Scarf being OP applies to this item also being OP. Also, since Expert enemies often deal 50% to 100% more damage than normal counterparts, -17% is just bringing things back into balance. (Like how banners have double effect in expert mode.) Plus don't forget Def in Expert has a 75% reduction instead of 50%, So an attack doing 100 damage on a player with 100 def becomes 25 damage instead of normal modes 50. Conversely, enemies don't get increased defense, only increased health. Making a 17% increase in damage is equally effective in Expert mode as it is in normal mode.

Speaking of, since the game does not force characters to be exclusively expert or normal. Gear must be balanced to be used in both. You personally may think it is cheap to move between expert and normal to progress but other players and the game's design allow for such tactics. To assume players only play on a single difficulty for balance is a bad idea.

Finally, I think you misunderstood what I said about Worm Scarf being in Corrupt. The fact is it DOESN'T make sense, which is one of the reasons I believe it exists only to give corrupt purpose. Corrupt has never show favor to defense, why is this lone item the exception? Why is it the only expert mode exclusive item to have such a heavy impact on combat? But, again we aren't here to determine if Worm Scarf is OP. The thread wants to find a stronger alternative to the "weaker" Brain drop, what I am advocating is the solution presented is unfitting and overpowered. (If one item is already out of place, making another one out of place doesn't fix the first one.)

Frankly, if any boss needs a buff to expert drops its Moon Lord. But, there are already several threads on the topic. (And, lol at the mech bosses needing to be combined to make a single mine cart. Duke's drop says Hi.)

Oh, and you know that Eater's theme can also be obtained from Eye of Cthuhlu and King Slime right? That Eater adventure you had, was unnecessary.

 

[neoselket]

You must not spend much time in expert mode. The vampire knives are next to useless lategame, they're super rare, and they're entirely useless against the Moon Lord. The Pre-hardmode crimson enemies deal less damage than the corrupt ones, and you can easily avoid their damage with a cactus sword's knockback. Ichor is good, but limited in its usefulness. I agree, the Brain of Cthulhu is easier than the eater of worlds on normal mode, and dying to it post-moon lord would be a shame. But on expert mode, The Eater of worlds spams normally hardmode projectiles at you, while all the brain does is add a few easily identifiable replicas, and that only in the second phase. Add to that that I had to fight the thing for half an hour without damaging it to get the music box. And the powers of Nebula armor only take effect when you kill stuff. I'm effectively at the same level defensively as a late-prehardmode player. I dare you to survive with the expert eater of worlds for half an hour with molten armor. Not only that, but I didn't die, I got to, like, half health.

On that note, I mean no hostilities to you. Your arguments are well founded, but rather subjective at times, like mine. Remember that suggestions are opinions, and mine might be different than yours. If you find the crimson hard, whoop de do for you, But I think it could use a major buff in expert mode.

[doublepost=1481567502,1481566967][/doublepost]
I agree, 17% crit would be rediculous on a normal mode boss, but you must remember, Expert drops only drop on Expert mode. Hence 'Expert Drops'.

Besides, I think the Worm Scarf is just as OP. -17% damage taken is the equivalent of SIXTY EIGHT DEFENCE against an attack of 300 damage, which is entirely possible in lategame expert mode, most notably from the Martian Deathray and Phantasmal Deathray, as well as the attacks of Red devils. I think you should know that 68 is more defence from one item than any other item in the game. In fact, you'd be better off wearing just the worm scarf against a phantasmal Deathray than full Turtle Armor, with its 65 defence. 17% extra damage is somewhat mild in comparison, don't you think?

As far as not fitting the game, That doesn't make sense. Why is the Corruption allowed to block so much damage if Crimson can't inflict a little more? Both of them stand out from the other expert mode items; that's the point.

funnily enough, most of my worlds nowadays are expert mode. however, they're all corrupt(just like my non expert worlds) just because i like the corruption better. i've managed to literally stand still during the pumpkin moon and not die, and that's with crimson gear(beetle armor and vampire knives). ichor is amazing, it allows you to deal a ton of extra damage, and when combined with the vampire knives, it increases the lifesteal. as for the eater of worlds, the vile spit projectiles don't deal as much damage as the corruptor(hardmode) ones, and you can avoid them by fighting him underground. also, the EoW is a worm enemy, which means you can deal a lot of damage to many segments using piercing weapons, wheareas with the BoC, the creepers are less predictable than the worm segments, as they follow where the brain teleports.

as for dying to the EoW/BoC with nebula armor, i would recommend destroying a few of the segments/creepers before attempting to get the music box, and like the other guy said, you can get them from other bosses as well.
personally, i do feel that the brain of confusion does need a buff, although i would probably change it to a damage reduction rather than crit chance. perhaps the brain could give 17 defense to work similarly to the worm scarf's 17% damage reduction. given that crimson has the flesh knuckles, those+paladin shield+modified brain of confusion would give a total of 30 extra defense(although at the cost of 3 accessory slots.)

sorry for the wall of text post, i'm too lazy to edit the quote.

 

[ManaUser]

I disagree about the brain of confusion. It's not as cool as the worm scarf, there's no doubt about that, but it's actually pretty decent. For the sake of argument, let's point out that you also "need to get hit" for the worm scarf to do anything. Confusion can definitely save you sometimes, it wouldn't even surprise me if it saves you from around say... 17% of the hits you might otherwise take. Although, not against bosses, as you say.

 

[Battle Bee]

+17% crit chance is way too good to be an exclusive expert item.

...Or maybe that's my inner jealousy speaking - because I really really like to go hard on crit buffs, but I also really really dislike expert mode.

 

[Zario777]

The Brain of Confusion should inflict direct attackers with a buffed version of the Weak debuff (or inflict all within the normal radius of the Brain of Confusion with the regular Weak debuff). This would make it on par with the Worm Scarf as enemies would be dealing less damage to you, but for different reasons. It should also be renamed as a result to be in line with its new reworked design.

 

[Gotcha!]

I am not going to read everyone's post here; just wanted to say that +17% critical hit chance is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much.
I do agree that the BoC's trinket is useless.

 

[delete this account_65433]

I am not going to read everyone's post here; just wanted to say that +17% critical hit chance is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much.
I do agree that the BoC's trinket is useless.

To summarize a previous post, just the worm scarf is better than full turtle's defense against a phantasmal deathray, and it's okay that way, and is waay more powerful than a 17% crit chance bonus.

 

[Gotcha!]

To summarize a previous post, just the worm scarf is better than full turtle's defense against a phantasmal deathray, and it's okay that way, and is waay more powerful than a 17% crit chance bonus.

I don't have the numbers, but I do know that getting hit in expert mode whether wearing a worm scarf or not, it'll hurt like hell.
Sure, it helps wearing it, but I didn't wear the thing at all and tried a different tactic: Dodging. It leaves me with a free slot so I can use something much more important. So I don't think this item deserves a godlike praise.

Now a 17% crit chance bonus on top of all your other crit chance bonuses... Just checked and it'd make it really easy to get a crit chance of 76% for my current character. Drink a potion and I am at 86%. Perhaps I can even make it higher with some accessory I forgot about.
Sounds insanely more powerful than some damage reduction.

Edit: I checked the available accessories and I could get a crit rate of 101% on my current character if the suggested item existed.

 

[delete this account_65433]

I'm not saying it's overpowered, I personally prefer dodging as well. I'm saying that an item that's 15% inferior to a lifeforce potion is powerful enough it's worth an item that's 15% inferior to a rage potion and a wrath potion.