Looking for Mods that....

N

Nssheepster

Terrarian
I'm very, very tempted to buy Terraria now that it's complete. I've been tempted for a while yet and held off. However, looking at the final update, it seems like the Devs decided to 'force' a certain way of playing to access two new features... And I'm asking here to see if there are mods that correct this, or if I should wait for them to be made before coughing up money.

I'm aware that 'Bad Torch Luck' is gone. As far as I'm aware 'Good Luck' still exists... And I don't want to have to build/play a certain fashion to get better drops. Is there a mod that just sets this to maximum constantly, or a way to just do it in the game files?

The other one, of course, is the Happiness system and its features. I like the idea of making a little town with all my NPCs in it.... But now if I do that, I don't get the Pylons, I can't use the Pylons if I got them anyways because the NPCs won't be near it, and the discounts won't happen either. The discounts matter less to me than the fast travel system. Is there a mod that decouples the Pylons from the NPCs, so I can play as I wish and not have to go without the fast travel?

On a side note.... Any way to be certain everything spawns/is obtainable in a world? As far as I can find out, the closest you can come to that is spawning a 'Large' 'Journey Mode' world with the 'Drunk World' special seed, because that'd give the only Journey Mode exclusive item, access to the Expert and Master Mode exclusives, and it'd give you the best chance of all the chest-only items spawning because of more space for more chests to spawn in. If there's a better way, or a mod, I'd love to hear about it.
 
Okay. I assume that that's being worked on, so I'm not too worried on that.....

Are there mods for it to load that do this, though? Given what you said, I'd guess 'not yet', since these are both 1.4 features?
 
Nssheepster said:
Okay. I assume that that's being worked on, so I'm not too worried on that.....

Are there mods for it to load that do this, though? Given what you said, I'd guess 'not yet', since these are both 1.4 features?
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I highly doubt that there are any standalone mods that do this
 
Well, I guess I'll bookmark this thread and come back in a month then. Hopefully by then TModLoader has caught up. I'm clearly not the only person irritated by these things, so presumably they'll be modded for once TMod has caught up.
 
Nssheepster said:
Well, I guess I'll bookmark this thread and come back in a month then. Hopefully by then TModLoader has caught up. I'm clearly not the only person irritated by these things, so presumably they'll be modded for once TMod has caught up.
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I dont think tModLoader 1.4 will be released in 1 month, it will prolly be at least still 3 months
 
There are certainly no mods affecting these things, because, like the other person said too, Tmodloader didn't caught up with Terraria 1.4 yet. and that likely will take months.

Still, while it's up to you what you do, I would say that these things aren't as big problems. There are some unpleasant bugs here and there, but...

once negative torch luck's been eliminated, it's a biiiiit of a weird thing to say the game "forces" you to play it the way developers want. you can put any sort of torches anywhere and you will never get bad luck from them. sure, you won't get good luck either, but still - and asking for setting luck to maximum right away? then why those things like luck potion even exists? also, there are garden gnomes, ladybugs and whatnot.
and with torch god's favor, putting up biome torches is extremely easy and convinient.

pylons are also not perfect, but it just makes sense to have something to "lock the feature behind" when fast travel is so extremely convinient and OP. you can set up teleporters in hardmode with a large cost and lots of work, but pylons as there nearly since the start of the game, require no wiring or anything, so... how to make it not super OP?
by the way, there's a mod for example like "wall mounted magic mirrors" that works really similar to pylons that require no NPCs nearby. they can be found scattered around newly generated worlds and can be placed elsewhere, and also can be crafted too, in hardmode. yes, the crafting recipes are expensive, but again, fast travel is extremely useful.

increased prices matter little too. it only really matters very early game when it can take some grinding to buy expensive stuff, but later, when you often have several plats lying around, it really does not matters is they charge more some a few items, you barely ever buy anything at that point anyway.


there's also no guarantee that a world would have everything. the "drunk worlds" only really offer two exclusive items, Moon Lord legs, and Red's Potion. the former is more a joke and novelty item, though might make interesting vanity. the later is not really something you want to drink anyway...
certain other items can be a pain if not present in a world, but you can always create more worlds, or fish for crates.
 
Apparently I get notifications about this? Handy. The time scale is handy to know, thank you.

Biome Torches are easy to make from what I understand.... But I don't want to use them, I want consistent lighting, which that clearly isn't. So I can either use them anyways, to get the better drop rates, or I can play the way I'd like to, and get worse drop rates because I'm not doing what Red apparently wants me to. I can understand luck potions, but the rest of it? That's just uneeded really. Given that there are some things with insanely low drop rates, if you're farming for them... Having even a smidge less luck than the maximum could add hours to your grind, so yeah, feeling 'forced' to do what Red wants to get luck is entirely a thing here.

As for the Pylons... You CAN play the game entirely without them, yes. Clearly, as the game existed before them. However... They aren't 'OP', they're what's called Quality Of Life, or QOL. Locking QOL behind playing a specific way is a rather infamously bad thing that more than a few games have done in the past... It's also often locked behind paywalls in many games, leading to the P2W debate in various communities. I want my NPCs in one place, not all over the map, that's both irritating and prevents me from making a little town for them.

I agree on pricing, clearly it's fairly easy to grind money in various ways, I'm not really worried/caring about that, just about the Pylons.

I expected there'd be no way, but I figured I'd ask anyways. Good to know for certain though.
 
@Nssheepster
Again, it's a bit of an odd thing to say that not having "good luck" is the same as having "bad luck" I get your point, but having "neutral luck" is not really a penalty. like in some other posts others pointed out, it's just like buff potions.
let's take iron skin potion for example. it's quite handy to have that buff, perticularly for boss fights, but it's a bonus. the normal state of things is not having it.

aesthetics/looks is an arguable aspect though. I personally love the looks of most biome torches, but demon torches' lights are awful for the already pitch dark obsidian brick towers... so, that is one place where I would really consider just using normal torches. but also could just use other lightsources, that doesn't affect luck at all. but now that there's no negative luck, there's probably no penalty using normal torches there - there are already demon torches there by worldgen.

as for drop rates, it's still just RNG. and as that, even with maxed out "luck" you can be so unlucky with RNG itself that you still have to grind for an hour for a megaphone... but other times you get 5 nazars even with no "luck"
it might matters a bit more with dmg. dealt and taken. I think luck affects that too, and that's much less RNG dependant.


Pylons are QoL, yes. but, you can get them super early game, and they are insanely convinient. how would you like to balance out that? there usually must be something to make something balanced, isn't it?
or in modded, you could go for those wall-mounted magic mirrors I mentioned. if you don't like that there are only 5-10 or somethin scattered around in the world and crafting more is hardmode, feel free to cheat in a hundred more with cheatsheets, and you can fast travel anywhere from anywhere any time you want. no penalty, no drawback or anything. no need for town NPCs nearby either.

how fragile NPCs are, they are also actually much safer in towns out of nowhere, than in the central town that always gets massacred by blood moons, goblins, solar eclipses, wraits, pirates and everything else...
I built some large towns before too, but it really only safe with mods like "friendly NPCs don't die" otherwise you will end up with a ghost town evey third day...

and normally, accessing town NPCs residing in far-away towns isn't much of an issue, because of the pylons. there are times though when they don't work though, like at certain events - like lunar events - which is annoying. or if an invasion wiped out your central town - again... - then you still have to walk to another to use the pylons...
it's not perfect. but I wonder how other way you could balance it out, how awesome they are, than to have some sort of thing like "2 NPCs nearby"

there's also an item in Thorium mod for example, called "wormhole mirror" which works on town NPCs too, so you can teleport to them. even before we would hear about the pylon system, using - and abusing - that item was quite convinient and easy for fast travel, you only needed one NPC housed somewhere to function as your "anchor point". arguable if they were happy living alone in the middle of the underground jungle or whatever other place, but that's not quite different from pylons anyway.

Or again, look up wall mounted magic mirrors. it might be pretty much the mod you're looking for (regardless that Tmodloader did not caught up with 1.4 yet.)
 
Nssheepster said:
I'm very, very tempted to buy Terraria now that it's complete. I've been tempted for a while yet and held off. However, looking at the final update, it seems like the Devs decided to 'force' a certain way of playing to access two new features... And I'm asking here to see if there are mods that correct this, or if I should wait for them to be made before coughing up money.

I'm aware that 'Bad Torch Luck' is gone. As far as I'm aware 'Good Luck' still exists... And I don't want to have to build/play a certain fashion to get better drops. Is there a mod that just sets this to maximum constantly, or a way to just do it in the game files?

The other one, of course, is the Happiness system and its features. I like the idea of making a little town with all my NPCs in it.... But now if I do that, I don't get the Pylons, I can't use the Pylons if I got them anyways because the NPCs won't be near it, and the discounts won't happen either. The discounts matter less to me than the fast travel system. Is there a mod that decouples the Pylons from the NPCs, so I can play as I wish and not have to go without the fast travel?

On a side note.... Any way to be certain everything spawns/is obtainable in a world? As far as I can find out, the closest you can come to that is spawning a 'Large' 'Journey Mode' world with the 'Drunk World' special seed, because that'd give the only Journey Mode exclusive item, access to the Expert and Master Mode exclusives, and it'd give you the best chance of all the chest-only items spawning because of more space for more chests to spawn in. If there's a better way, or a mod, I'd love to hear about it.
Click to expand...


It's pretty much the same Terraria (mechanics wise) except for npcs and some other things.

- Drops are the same. Luck will increase your odds for many things. It is an improvement.
- Npcs and discounts. It's a pretty easy system to set up, one person already created a guide here for it, and unless you are completely dead set on having everybody in one spot I find it to be useful for discounts.
- There is an item that increases your NPCs ability to fight. Haven't tried it out as NPC are far to passive anyways.

Now restrictions? Here they are:
- Reaver shark no longer mines any prehardmode block. You have to defeat the EoW/BoC in order to mine hellstone during prehardmode.
- You cannot avoid meteor storms that mess up the place if you kill EoW/BoC. Second you kill either one meteors become activated.
- Throwing damage is gone, wasn't much to begin with. It is now combined with Ranged and prehardmode Ranged armor took a serious hit in usefullness.
- Targeting monsters with your cursor to focus all summon attacks is now replaced with a melee weapon.

That's pretty much the bulk of the major stuff.
 
Sora_92 said:
once negative torch luck's been eliminated, it's a biiiiit of a weird thing to say the game "forces" you to play it the way developers want. you can put any sort of torches anywhere and you will never get bad luck from them. sure, you won't get good luck either, but still - and asking for setting luck to maximum right away? then why those things like luck potion even exists? also, there are garden gnomes, ladybugs and whatnot.
and with torch god's favor, putting up biome torches is extremely easy and convinient.

pylons are also not perfect, but it just makes sense to have something to "lock the feature behind" when fast travel is so extremely convinient and OP. you can set up teleporters in hardmode with a large cost and lots of work, but pylons as there nearly since the start of the game, require no wiring or anything, so... how to make it not super OP?
Click to expand...

Let's say a drop rate is 1%. If you put down the right torches, let's say that becomes 2%. (Numbers for example only.
Now let's say a drop rate that WAS 1% is now buffed to 2%. BUT, if you have the wrong torches down, the drop rate goes down to 1%.

There is no functional difference between these two scenarios. Either way, if you don't have the torches the Dev wants you using present, you are getting a worse drop rate than you would otherwise be. It's just PR.

"It's OP"... Wait what? What 'power' do you think this adds to the player? Does it make them mine faster? No. Does it make them build faster? No. Does it make them fight better? No. Can they take more damage because of them? No.

Pylons are not a 'power' feature. They cannot be OP by their very nature, because they add no strength to the player whatsoever. It is STRICTLY a quality of life feature, nothing more, nothing less. Things that purely lessen tedium, not grind, are called quality of life for a reason, because all they do is add to the quality of life within the game.

There is no need to balance Pylons, as there is also no way TO balance Pylons. Balance them against what? The 'power' of walking? Balance refers to maintaining the player's strength in comparison to that of the enemy or enviroment. Pylons add no strength, just convenience. So you'd be balancing convenience against... lack of convenience? You can't even claim that it's too strong to let you avoid the enemies you might encounter, seeing as you can fly right over them with a mount, just slower.
 
Nssheepster said:
Let's say a drop rate is 1%. If you put down the right torches, let's say that becomes 2%. (Numbers for example only.
Now let's say a drop rate that WAS 1% is now buffed to 2%. BUT, if you have the wrong torches down, the drop rate goes down to 1%.

There is no functional difference between these two scenarios. Either way, if you don't have the torches the Dev wants you using present, you are getting a worse drop rate than you would otherwise be. It's just PR.

"It's OP"... Wait what? What 'power' do you think this adds to the player? Does it make them mine faster? No. Does it make them build faster? No. Does it make them fight better? No. Can they take more damage because of them? No.

Pylons are not a 'power' feature. They cannot be OP by their very nature, because they add no strength to the player whatsoever. It is STRICTLY a quality of life feature, nothing more, nothing less. Things that purely lessen tedium, not grind, are called quality of life for a reason, because all they do is add to the quality of life within the game.

There is no need to balance Pylons, as there is also no way TO balance Pylons. Balance them against what? The 'power' of walking? Balance refers to maintaining the player's strength in comparison to that of the enemy or enviroment. Pylons add no strength, just convenience. So you'd be balancing convenience against... lack of convenience? You can't even claim that it's too strong to let you avoid the enemies you might encounter, seeing as you can fly right over them with a mount, just slower.
Click to expand...

From what I understand of luck currently it is:

Luck now >= What luck used to be.

So it's either the same or better depending on whether you want to participate in the luck system.
 
Nssheepster said:
Let's say a drop rate is 1%. If you put down the right torches, let's say that becomes 2%. (Numbers for example only.

Now let's say a drop rate that WAS 1% is now buffed to 2%. BUT, if you have the wrong torches down, the drop rate goes down to 1%.

There is no functional difference between these two scenarios. Either way, if you don't have the torches the Dev wants you using present, you are getting a worse drop rate than you would otherwise be. It's just PR.
Click to expand...

These situations aren't technically equivalent. The difference is that with the current system, the 1% is the default. If the 2% were the default, then that default would be in effect before any torches are even placed. But the current system doesn't give you the 2% from the start, then punish you for placing the wrong torches. It doesn't give you any bonus from the start.

With the removal of negative torch luck, the addition of torch luck is now a net benefit. If you wish to ignore luck, the game is no different in this respect than it was in the previous iteration. From my view, it just doesn't follow that this is an enforced playstyle, no more so than any aspect of progression in this game is enforced. And certainly no more an enforced playstyle than the absence of the improved droprates was in previous iterations.

You could make a similar argument saying that the only fair value for the droprate is 100%, and that the game in its current form is no different than an unfair -99% droprate penalty imposed by the devs upon the playerbase.

Nssheepster said:
Biome Torches are easy to make from what I understand.... But I don't want to use them, I want consistent lighting, which that clearly isn't. So I can either use them anyways, to get the better drop rates, or I can play the way I'd like to, and get worse drop rates because I'm not doing what Red apparently wants me to. I can understand luck potions, but the rest of it? That's just uneeded really. Given that there are some things with insanely low drop rates, if you're farming for them... Having even a smidge less luck than the maximum could add hours to your grind, so yeah, feeling 'forced' to do what Red wants to get luck is entirely a thing here.
Click to expand...

If this is about "not doing what Red wants", you could just as easily use the same logic to say that crafting and searching for potions is too much trouble, and that Red is unfairly exercising his will in forcing players to obtain those benefits via temporary buffs. Somebody once made this exact argument on these very forums, in complete and utter sincerity. After railing against torch luck, they argued that all potions should be removed, and their buffs infinitely and intrinsically bestowed upon the player, because a temporary buff is no different than a penalty by default. This example is a gross exaggeration, but I think it illustrates that there isn't much dissimilarity between torch luck and potions.

Now, I'm not saying that increasing the droprates would cause imbalance; indeed it might improve quality of life in many cases. There are many droprates in this game that are arbitrarily low. Which overall makes me think that the problem is not torch luck, but that certain droprates are so low that torch luck ends up having a disproportionate impact. Even so, the actual concrete impact of torch luck has been overstated by many, due to initial inaccuracies on the Wiki page becoming widespread via word of mouth.

Note that with maximum luck, a one-hour grind will only be reduced on average by about 17 minutes. Maximum torch luck only accounts for around a fifth of that. So if we hold that 43 minutes is the new standard, then that grind is only increased by 17 minutes if you ignore ALL luck. So on average it's definitely not adding hours and hours, not unless it's one of the rarest items in the game you're grinding for. (Source)

I understand that you would rather have consistent lighting, and would like to be able to benefit from the droprate bonus without undertaking arbitrary actions. But I would argue that the game is still worth it even in spite of these inconveniences. As I have stated prior, not taking advantage of torch luck is no different than it not existing, which is how things were in every incarnation before 1.4. If the torch luck bonus didn't exist at all, nobody would be complaining. I suspect that a visible percentage of the hatred towards this mechanic is a direct result of Red's infamous tweet. Still, I doubt that he harboured any genuine ill will towards the community for "using the wrong torches", and if he were truly as cruel and arbitrary as people have made him out to be, the game would never have achieved its current popularity. Not to mention that he and the other devs listened to feedback by removing negative torch luck, and also went to the trouble of introducing an all-new mechanic just to more easily facilitate the obtainment and placement of (most) biome torches.

I'm not going to make any argument about NPC happiness, as I believe the criticisms there are more justified, from the standpoint of previous builds and playstyles losing viability. Even so, Terraria's still the same great game as it's always been. There's been a lot of doomsaying coming from various people, and a lot of overblown criticism of the devs, who have done nothing but work hard all through these past months. I would recommend that you buy and play the game first, and not let other peoples' criticisms affect your decision. These inconveniences, which many players don't even count as inconveniences at all, should not be the deciding factor in whether or not the game is worth it to you, even if these hypothetical mods are never created (and most likely some variation will). The game will still be excellent in almost every respect, and only you alone can decide the extent to which these mechanics detract from that. At most they are a slight blemish on a brilliant product; for me they don't even come close to being a dealbreaker.
 
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The major difference between buffs and luck is fairly simple to me: One is a set benefit. You know what you are getting, and for how long you are getting it. Luck is an alteration to drop rates, and even knowing the drop rates, you don't actually know how long it will take to get what you are trying to. You do, however, know in advance that many of the drop rates are freaking insane, so any benefit you can get is of immeasurable value. Luck could do nothing, because you were going to get what you wanted first try, or it could save you, quite literally in some cases, multiple hours of grinding.
I certainly wouldn't ask for all buffs to be removed or infinite. I would ask for luck to be set at a flat amount, however. I can deal with a standard drop rate just fine. Having to jump through multiple hoops to get the best drop rate would quickly irritate me in practice. You're also not incorrect that, if the luck mechanic simply didn't exist, I'd not be asking about a drop rate modification of any kind, I'd just stick with what was in the game and be fine with it.

I don't really intend to cause a debate over the 'correct' way to handle luck and drop rates. I'm just waiting patiently for the mod loader to catch up, and hoping for a mod that will eliminate something that would detract from my personal enjoyment of the game.

The thing I would 'debate', such as it is, is the pylons, because that is a directly good feature that you can only get through very specific actions set up by the developer intentionally, differing for each pylon. That, I will straight up say, was IMO a clearly bad implementation of what, as far as I can tell, was a desperately desired feature for a long time. There seem to be more than a few mods for providining similar functionality, at least, suggesting that it was something people wanted. It's a strict convenience feature, not offering any direct benefit outside of convenience, and thus has no need to be locked behind having two NPCs nearby. If the mechanic for buying them was the only issue, I'd shrug it off. Irritating as hell, and wasted work IMO, but I'd deal with it. The constant need to keep NPCs near it changes it from a one time irritation to a repeat irritation whenever I need to deal with multiple NPCs. I'd deal with an irritation once. I would not intentionally subject myself to it over and over again. THAT I think all but demands a mod and I would be stunned if such a mod isn't run out very quickly once the mod loader supports the version.
 
For anyone looking for the same things I was:
forums.terraria.org

THIS THREAD IS RETIRED

THIS THREAD IS RETIRED
forums.terraria.org forums.terraria.org

Has the tweaks required to deal with Pylons, Luck, and NPC Happiness. According to the wiki, 1.4 is the maximum Luck value, but having higher than 1 is meaningless, so that's what you set the Luck tweak for. It has a LOT of other, more cheaty options to it, but it also has the option to just disable the luck and happiness systems.
 
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