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Make Finch staff 100% guarantee on a world....

Blob [FBI]

Terrarian
Ever since 1.4.1 all my prayers were answered:

A pre-boss summoner armour
Another summoner weapon thats early game
A summoner accessory prehardmode
a new whip, flasks affect whips, obsidian armour rework for summoner, summon ai changes
Buffs to existing summons, changes to summon staff drops and whip size changes and overall increased progression

Everything is amazing and its everything I ever wished for, summoner is now 99% almost complete...
"What? 99%? Whats that 1%?"
Funny, out of all the changes they made for summoner in 1.4 and 1.4.1, they seemed to fix almost every issue summoner has had...except for 1
When you spawn in, and youre doing a summoner only playthrough, you have only a few options
1. Finch staff
2. Slime staff
3. Leather whip

1. Finch staff:
Idk how...idk why.....but out of all the changes they did they forgot the 1 change that would fix summoner progression and overall make it the best class ever........making Finch staff a 100% garantee on your world.

Its hard to understand why the devs made leaf wand and living wood wand a renewable item instead of finch staff? You explore your world, finding living wood trees only to have all the chests contain these wands, even though they are easily accessible from hitting a tree. In my opinion, since these wands can now be obtainable from hitting trees, they should be overall removed/decreased from Living wood chests, as the Finch staff might never be able to spawn due to them, aswell as world gen eliminating the tree rooms.
Other than that, maybe being able to craft finch staff would be good. a simple wood and bird critter would be a balance crafting recipe as you can only catch birds once youve obtained the merchant.
If Finch staff was changed to a 100% garantee then summoner would finally have a set progression, it would finally be the same level of all the other classes.

2. Slime staff:
The slime staff...you know it, I know it....its the 1 weapon us summoners had to use before 1.4....this staff is a joke with how rare it is.....there is no point in it being so rare now. It isnt connected with any special trivia, thus not making it anything special, its a weapon that sits at pre-boss with how little damage it does, its generally a weapon you have to grind for and only use it once when youve killed BoC or EoW. And with 1.4.1, there are now 3 more summons and whips thatare far better than the summon. With this weapon I dont think connecting it with King slime would do it any justice as youd generally use a better summon to kill that boss. The only spot I think for this weapon to be in is for normal surface chest loot...maybe increasing the slime drop rate but for the most part its just useless, idk how youd manage to change where it would come from but for the most part its a starter weapon with no real simple way of getting it.

3. Leather whip:
Let me tell you a story that happened about 30 minutes ago....
Once upon a time I now wanted to do summoners playthrough to check out all the new summoner stuff 1.4.1 had brought. I spawned in my large world and came around 3 living wood tree biomes......and not 1 of the trees had a finch staff, but hey, I got 2 living leaf and 2 living wood wands out of it =)
Now....I had hope, as the beastiary requirement for leather whip was only 10% now...so I went to work...capturing and trying to get as many npcs and critters to get that 10%.....which took me 4 hours.....I couldnt kill any mob as I had no summon weapon, thus I couldnt fill out my beastiary fast enough......at the end of it all, I finally got the zoologist and leather whip...you think I was happy? no....I have exhausted...drained out.....all that for a whip.....its better now that you get it garanteed from zoologist.....but if you dont find finch staff youll have to grind to get that other summoner weapon......


Making finch a 100% garantee isnt game breaking or progression breaking.....Its the last thing summoner needs to be playable....Have a living wood tree spawn with a finch staff garantee....youll be praised, worshiped and loved. Every youtuber has loved this update for summoner but all of them have said the same thing...make finch staff 100% garantee, cause thats the last issue summoner has, and once that is gone, no more problems, no more complaints, summoner now has progression and Terraria can be 100% complete....
 

Sora_92

Terrarian
The game is never 100% perfect - and wouldn't be, even with finch staff guaranted, but that's how games (or anything else) are, there's always place to improve a bit, even on games as awesome as Terraria.

But this is an interesting issue.
On the other playthrough (start in hardmode) there was only 1 living tree in that world, and that one had no deep roots, so, since such worlds generate as well (either having living trees with no chests, or even some has no living trees at all - so, even then, finch staff wouldn't be guaranted.

However, interesting. I started a new playthrough when 1.4.1 come out, to try out things. New character, new world, expert. Nothing really special, but interestingly enough, half a minute after spawning, a pinky appeared. It caught me off guard first and killed the character (try to hit it with a copper shortsword...) but luckily it stayed around the spawn, and I managed to craft a wooden sword and kill it when respawned. I only really thought that the gold it drops will be great to have the merchant move in right away, but it dropped a slime staff as well! So, I decided to try a summoner playthrough now, so, ...because of that, I can share my opinion on summoner matters a bit, I think XD Otherwise I didn't actually really tried playing this class pure before always as a hybrid. (and I have other weapons on the side now too, just in case XD)

Slime staff.
It's ridicolously rare, and putting aside this extremely lucky start, you usually get it way later in the game when you don't need it anymore. It's an alright minion for early game though.
Being able to craft it wouldn't be a bad idea probably.

Finch staff.
I found 3 living trees in this world (next to each other) all 3 had roots, and all of them had rooms, but oddly enough most rooms had no chest in it. One (like out of 4-5 rooms) had living wood & leaf wands, and a living loom. that's nice, but no finch staff. I got another living tree wand 10 minutes later from a tree XD - however as a builder, I do appreciate the changes on that, because they were often unobtainable if not generated with the word.

Now that applies only to the finch staff, out of the living tree loot (and sandstorm in a bottle otherwise. seriously, because most of the worlds still doesn't want to generate a piramid...)

The finch is an alright minion by the way, I tried it out on a previous playthrough. It has this interesting unique thing that it is already summoned when you re-enter the map with the character, if it was summoned prior. I think other minions don't do this.
It was however annoying (but I read on the changelog that it was changed) that it would sometimes knock back the enemy right into your face.
It was (dunno if it changed) also making airborn enemies go hiiiiiiigh up, out of the screen, so if you wanted to hit them with any weapon with a range meanwhile, you wouldn't see where the enemy is (e.g. demon eye and harpies)

it's also the only minion that nests on your head, which is cute, but makes you cool headgear (if you have any cool headgear) invisible. (not technically invisible, it just covers it.
this is funny though, because I remember a suggestion about a zoologist sort of NPC, where we/the thread finally deciden on that NPC having a look with a bird on the top of her head XD much like how the finch staff is. I wonder if the developers were inspired by that thread regarding the finch staff?

Anyway, maybe it could be craftable as well.


Leather whip.
I don't think that you actually can do pure summoner using only summoner class weapons, if you don't cheat something in. This is very much like mage, which - theoretically... - could use the wand of sparkling as starter weapon, but that weapon is way too random, you never find it when you actually want it. you're better just crafting gem staffs, most of the time. but until that, you can't really do pure mage.

So, I think the summoner's start is very similar. You have to rely on non-summoner weapons early game. Even if you want a slime staff (or a snow flinx staff) you have to kill monsters, to get either the staff, or the crafting material for the staff.
You will most likely need to kill slimes, or toch zombies or such to get torches for housing anyway. We take them as granted, but the crimson challange taught too, that you actually sometimes have to do much more for acquiring some torches. - theoretically they can be found in pots, but it's very random if even found any pots near your spawn.

So, you can't just go around observing critters to get the 10% bestiary, because you need at least bare minimum, a few houses for NPCs, including the zoologist herself. It seems you managed to do that somehow (not sure how you got torches if you couldn't kill anything though) but as your example shows, that's a bad approach, because it's just tiring, frustrating, and no fun.

But... as for the leather whip itself, I tried to buy it (I used a wooden sword first, then the sickle and a bloody machete, besides the slime staff (and got the snow flinx as well a bit later, but that took some grinding)
I might used it wrong or someting, but I found the leather whip absolutely garbage for that roughly 15 gold I had to pay for it (even with the golfer lived next to the zoologist) it seems to has low stats to normally kill much stuff, and the slime and the snow flinx are both land-based (though they can jump) and usually just stand iddle watching why are their master is flailing around with that rope.

meanwhile, you can get the material for the snapthorn for (practically) free with diving into the jungle. yes, it is a dangerous biome, but you still can aquire it possibly even before getting the leather whip. Even if it's available at 10% bestiary now, I think it's too expensive for how weak it is... the bloody machete was more useful, even though I generally don't like boomerangs, because you're a sitting duck until it returns.

I did crafted a diamond staff later, but got the snapthorn as well, and that's an actually decent weapon, and actually awesome for how ridicolously cheap it is to craft it.


other things.
The snapthorn is awesome, but you can acquire it very early, and there's no other whip after prior to spinal tap, which is post skeletron (who is, to begin with, often a quite tough boss on anything that's not normal mode)
Why there are no EoW/BoC tier whips for example? something with shadow scales/tissue samples, to fill the gap between snapthorn an spinal tap.

I don't know how good or bad spinal tap is, because I didn't got post skeletron in this new playthrough yet.


But as for the flinx staff - and the flinx fur coat - they are awesome, and great that there are craftable pre-boss summoner weapon and armor (interesting it's a single piece and not a set)
But. since I had the slime staff as well, and with the coat allowing 2 minions the same time, I had both summoned for early game. And they are different in a few ways. There are some basic things, like slime floats on water, and flinx sometimes seem to jump high to reach airborn enemies - some other times it just sits around -but
The biggest problem with the flinx is, it seems to do contact dmg to any creatures, criters included, so until you have the guide to critter companionship, the snow flinx will massacre all critters it touches. It won't actively hunt them down, but it will still accidentally kill a bunch of stuff you might wanted to catch or something.

But in general, (I'm not super familiar with summoner, I'm doing an actual summoner class playthrough pretty much now the first time. I usually play melee or mage.
There are a few things I really don't like in summoner.

  • Certain minions kill critters as well (like the snow flinx) - this can be remedied with the guide to critter companionship as well, so you can catch the golden squirrel before the snow flinx would eat it.
  • Minions that have projectile attacks destroy environment (this includes pots that are too far away to pick up what dropped from them, but also vegetation, in some cases things you did not wanted to destroy. like a wildflower field, or... cattails! because cattails are even needed for dragonglies to spawn, but your hornet minion will destroy them all when trying to kill a random zombie that walked into the lake.
    This is actually an issue with ranger class as well, and mage too to some extent. As some suggested it before too, a book to protect nature (similar to critters) would be really useful.
  • Imps, which are theoretically the best pre-hardmode summons are completely useless against anything that's underwater, as well as in most boss fights, because they fly away somewhere never to be seen again, or just don't really attack the boss itself... right? The "fire weapon is uselss underwater is a characteristic they share with other hell weaons though, like the flamelash, so whatever...
  • Minions (even those that doesn't kill critters on contact, like the slime) will rush to kill any monsters, including
    - gnomes! seriously, you don't want to kill these guys, they worth a real lot more if you can lure them to the sunlight, but your minions will brainlessly kill them on the spot.
    - lava slimes on expert. Just why?! Leave those things alone, please. the lava also destroys all the painings, so if you wanted to collect them, too bad for you.
    - vodoo demons over lava. seriously, I had them spawn WoF on me while I was trying to gather some lava critters. needless to say it didn't end well.
  • Most minions can't go through solid blocks, and tend to stuck in the corner of a room or something. You can re-summon them - even outside of the house, and they might fight, but sometimes arbitrarily decide to either return to you, or jump to the roof and refuse to fight. Charizard is that you...?
    Couldn't they spend most of the time when it's a blood moon, or invasion or something outside fighting, instead of being stuck in the corner or the room?
  • But minions that pass though blocks aren't any better either ...looking at you, stardust dragon. It will blast off to kill things waaay offscreen, and potencially start to focus killing the monsters in an engine (like crabs) instead of actually fighting the boss.
Just why is minions' AI this bad...?
If they at least wouldn't destroy the environment (like plants and pots), leave critters alone by base, and completely ignore special enemies (gnomes, lava slimes and wodoo demons)... I think that would make them a lot better, even if they will still spend most of the blood moon or solar eclipse looking for tiny spiders or anything in the corner of the room.

So, while a guaranted (or rather, a craftable!) finch staff would be really nice, I think these stuff also would be nice if get changed. Because it's no good that you have to de-summon them all, the second you spot "gnome" on the lifeform analyser...

Edit:
I forgot to mention the feral claws.
Now that they have the ability to make all melee weapons - and summoner whips - autoswing, this pretty much renders it a must for summoner class, if you want to actively fight, not just watch and dodge.

This might be why snapthorn seems to be so awesome, in comparison to the leather whip, because you might find feral claws while gathering the components to craft the snapthorn, so, you will have a fast autoswing whip, which makes it extremely more powerful in comparison to the leather whip (without autoswing)

However this makes me wonder if feral claws could be tinkered into other things too, besides titan glove, etc. which a summoner might doesn't actually needs/wants that much.
Instead, it could have an alternative crafting tree with other stuff a summoner might needs and wants. such as how about tinkering it with the pygmy necklace? or the rhinoceros beetle/papyrus scarab or something? the later might would be a bit OP though...
 
Last edited:

Blob [FBI]

Terrarian
The game is never 100% perfect - and wouldn't be, even with finch staff guaranted, but that's how games (or anything else) are, there's always place to improve a bit, even on games as awesome as Terraria.

But this is an interesting issue.
On the other playthrough (start in hardmode) there was only 1 living tree in that world, and that one had no deep roots, so, since such worlds generate as well (either having living trees with no chests, or even some has no living trees at all - so, even then, finch staff wouldn't be guaranted.

However, interesting. I started a new playthrough when 1.4.1 come out, to try out things. New character, new world, expert. Nothing really special, but interestingly enough, half a minute after spawning, a pinky appeared. It caught me off guard first and killed the character (try to hit it with a copper shortsword...) but luckily it stayed around the spawn, and I managed to craft a wooden sword and kill it when respawned. I only really thought that the gold it drops will be great to have the merchant move in right away, but it dropped a slime staff as well! So, I decided to try a summoner playthrough now, so, ...because of that, I can share my opinion on summoner matters a bit, I think XD Otherwise I didn't actually really tried playing this class pure before always as a hybrid. (and I have other weapons on the side now too, just in case XD)

Slime staff.
It's ridicolously rare, and putting aside this extremely lucky start, you usually get it way later in the game when you don't need it anymore. It's an alright minion for early game though.
Being able to craft it wouldn't be a bad idea probably.

Finch staff.
I found 3 living trees in this world (next to each other) all 3 had roots, and all of them had rooms, but oddly enough most rooms had no chest in it. One (like out of 4-5 rooms) had living wood & leaf wands, and a living loom. that's nice, but no finch staff. I got another living tree wand 10 minutes later from a tree XD - however as a builder, I do appreciate the changes on that, because they were often unobtainable if not generated with the word.

Now that applies only to the finch staff, out of the living tree loot (and sandstorm in a bottle otherwise. seriously, because most of the worlds still doesn't want to generate a piramid...)

The finch is an alright minion by the way, I tried it out on a previous playthrough. It has this interesting unique thing that it is already summoned when you re-enter the map with the character, if it was summoned prior. I think other minions don't do this.
It was however annoying (but I read on the changelog that it was changed) that it would sometimes knock back the enemy right into your face.
It was (dunno if it changed) also making airborn enemies go hiiiiiiigh up, out of the screen, so if you wanted to hit them with any weapon with a range meanwhile, you wouldn't see where the enemy is (e.g. demon eye and harpies)

it's also the only minion that nests on your head, which is cute, but makes you cool headgear (if you have any cool headgear) invisible. (not technically invisible, it just covers it.
this is funny though, because I remember a suggestion about a zoologist sort of NPC, where we/the thread finally deciden on that NPC having a look with a bird on the top of her head XD much like how the finch staff is. I wonder if the developers were inspired by that thread regarding the finch staff?

Anyway, maybe it could be craftable as well.


Leather whip.
I don't think that you actually can do pure summoner using only summoner class weapons, if you don't cheat something in. This is very much like mage, which - theoretically... - could use the wand of sparkling as starter weapon, but that weapon is way too random, you never find it when you actually want it. you're better just crafting gem staffs, most of the time. but until that, you can't really do pure mage.

So, I think the summoner's start is very similar. You have to rely on non-summoner weapons early game. Even if you want a slime staff (or a snow flinx staff) you have to kill monsters, to get either the staff, or the crafting material for the staff.
You will most likely need to kill slimes, or toch zombies or such to get torches for housing anyway. We take them as granted, but the crimson challange taught too, that you actually sometimes have to do much more for acquiring some torches. - theoretically they can be found in pots, but it's very random if even found any pots near your spawn.

So, you can't just go around observing critters to get the 10% bestiary, because you need at least bare minimum, a few houses for NPCs, including the zoologist herself. It seems you managed to do that somehow (not sure how you got torches if you couldn't kill anything though) but as your example shows, that's a bad approach, because it's just tiring, frustrating, and no fun.

But... as for the leather whip itself, I tried to buy it (I used a wooden sword first, then the sickle and a bloody machete, besides the slime staff (and got the snow flinx as well a bit later, but that took some grinding)
I might used it wrong or someting, but I found the leather whip absolutely garbage for that roughly 15 gold I had to pay for it (even with the golfer lived next to the zoologist) it seems to has low stats to normally kill much stuff, and the slime and the snow flinx are both land-based (though they can jump) and usually just stand iddle watching why are their master is flailing around with that rope.

meanwhile, you can get the material for the snapthorn for (practically) free with diving into the jungle. yes, it is a dangerous biome, but you still can aquire it possibly even before getting the leather whip. Even if it's available at 10% bestiary now, I think it's too expensive for how weak it is... the bloody machete was more useful, even though I generally don't like boomerangs, because you're a sitting duck until it returns.

I did crafted a diamond staff later, but got the snapthorn as well, and that's an actually decent weapon, and actually awesome for how ridicolously cheap it is to craft it.


other things.
The snapthorn is awesome, but you can acquire it very early, and there's no other whip after prior to spinal tap, which is post skeletron (who is, to begin with, often a quite tough boss on anything that's not normal mode)
Why there are no EoW/BoC tier whips for example? something with shadow scales/tissue samples, to fill the gap between snapthorn an spinal tap.

I don't know how good or bad spinal tap is, because I didn't got post skeletron in this new playthrough yet.


But as for the flinx staff - and the flinx fur coat - they are awesome, and great that there are craftable pre-boss summoner weapon and armor (interesting it's a single piece and not a set)
But. since I had the slime staff as well, and with the coat allowing 2 minions the same time, I had both summoned for early game. And they are different in a few ways. There are some basic things, like slime floats on water, and flinx sometimes seem to jump high to reach airborn enemies - some other times it just sits around -but
The biggest problem with the flinx is, it seems to do contact dmg to any creatures, criters included, so until you have the guide to critter companionship, the snow flinx will massacre all critters it touches. It won't actively hunt them down, but it will still accidentally kill a bunch of stuff you might wanted to catch or something.

But in general, (I'm not super familiar with summoner, I'm doing an actual summoner class playthrough pretty much now the first time. I usually play melee or mage.
There are a few things I really don't like in summoner.

  • Certain minions kill critters as well (like the snow flinx) - this can be remedied with the guide to critter companionship as well, so you can catch the golden squirrel before the snow flinx would eat it.
  • Minions that have projectile attacks destroy environment (this includes pots that are too far away to pick up what dropped from them, but also vegetation, in some cases things you did not wanted to destroy. like a wildflower field, or... cattails! because cattails are even needed for dragonglies to spawn, but your hornet minion will destroy them all when trying to kill a random zombie that walked into the lake.
    This is actually an issue with ranger class as well, and mage too to some extent. As some suggested it before too, a book to protect nature (similar to critters) would be really useful.
  • Imps, which are theoretically the best pre-hardmode summons are completely useless against anything that's underwater, as well as in most boss fights, because they fly away somewhere never to be seen again, or just don't really attack the boss itself... right? The "fire weapon is uselss underwater is a characteristic they share with other hell weaons though, like the flamelash, so whatever...
  • Minions (even those that doesn't kill critters on contact, like the slime) will rush to kill any monsters, including
    - gnomes! seriously, you don't want to kill these guys, they worth a real lot more if you can lure them to the sunlight, but your minions will brainlessly kill them on the spot.
    - lava slimes on expert. Just why?! Leave those things alone, please. the lava also destroys all the painings, so if you wanted to collect them, too bad for you.
    - vodoo demons over lava. seriously, I had them spawn WoF on me while I was trying to gather some lava critters. needless to say it didn't end well.
  • Most minions can't go through solid blocks, and tend to stuck in the corner of a room or something. You can re-summon them - even outside of the house, and they might fight, but sometimes arbitrarily decide to either return to you, or jump to the roof and refuse to fight. Charizard is that you...?
    Couldn't they spend most of the time when it's a blood moon, or invasion or something outside fighting, instead of being stuck in the corner or the room?
  • But minions that pass though blocks aren't any better either ...looking at you, stardust dragon. It will blast off to kill things waaay offscreen, and potencially start to focus killing the monsters in an engine (like crabs) instead of actually fighting the boss.
Just why is minions' AI this bad...?
If they at least wouldn't destroy the environment (like plants and pots), leave critters alone by base, and completely ignore special enemies (gnomes, lava slimes and wodoo demons)... I think that would make them a lot better, even if they will still spend most of the blood moon or solar eclipse looking for tiny spiders or anything in the corner of the room.

So, while a guaranted (or rather, a craftable!) finch staff would be really nice, I think these stuff also would be nice if get changed. Because it's no good that you have to de-summon them all, the second you spot "gnome" on the lifeform analyser...

Edit:
I forgot to mention the feral claws.
Now that they have the ability to make all melee weapons - and summoner whips - autoswing, this pretty much renders it a must for summoner class, if you want to actively fight, not just watch and dodge.

This might be why snapthorn seems to be so awesome, in comparison to the leather whip, because you might find feral claws while gathering the components to craft the snapthorn, so, you will have a fast autoswing whip, which makes it extremely more powerful in comparison to the leather whip (without autoswing)

However this makes me wonder if feral claws could be tinkered into other things too, besides titan glove, etc. which a summoner might doesn't actually needs/wants that much.
Instead, it could have an alternative crafting tree with other stuff a summoner might needs and wants. such as how about tinkering it with the pygmy necklace? or the rhinoceros beetle/papyrus scarab or something? the later might would be a bit OP though...
Thanks for replying, I never intended this big of a reply lol
But Ive read through it all...like you said, summoner is best off using a non-summon weapon at the start to get your summon weapon
But every single other class doesnt require this...even if mage doesnt have a starter weapon you are guaranteed a gem staff while as Summoner isnt a garanteed summon weapon

I get that Summon ai is hard to code, it hard to balance and etc. but thats not what Im saying....
1 simple change for making Finch staff a guarantee on your world would finally bridge the gapin the summoner progression
Yes they added new pre-boss summon gear, but how can you obtainit without a finch staff
Theyve done things like this before, sometimes you werent guaranteed a living wood/lead wand, while now you can just hit tees and they fall out of them...which makes them 100% obtainable....now why did they do that for the wands and not the finch staff....they didnt even make the wands in living wood chests have a lower chance of spawning in them....
I also agree with all the other changes they can do, but as we know we can never ask too much
Thus why Im asking for this 1 simple change that would make summoner class whole, youtubers would want to actually play summoner on the first world they generate without having to go on it, search for finch staff and realise it aint there.....

Its funny how whenever I make a world where I play whatever class I get like 3 finch staffs
But once I wanna start a summoner playthrough, finch staff never spawns

So please relogic...do the same with finch staff like you did with the living wood/leaf wands

Make it craftable, make it drop from a tree or Make a living wood tree always have a finch staff in it......
If you do one of these then summoner is complete
 

Sora_92

Terrarian
@Blob [FBI]

Asking for too much is one thing, but I think it's quite viable points I brought up, like, seriously, with any other class, you can just decide not to attack a gnome, or a lava slime, but minions will kill them on their own...

And, theoretically, it's possible to craft a gem staff without any fighting, but on the other hand, not really, because, you need torches to explore underground, so you likely need to kill slimes. you can buy torches once the merchant moved in, but you won't likely get him without some fighting.

I'm wondering about it more like, what is the reason you say "no fighting"? Is it because you want a playthrough where you only do summon dmg? so, anything that does other, like a sword is no good? or is it about it's tough to kill enemies with other weapons? I'm assuming your point is the first, that you want a playthrough with dealing only summon dmg? but... do you want to avoid slimes and look for pots with torches? or are you planning waiting for the guide to kill a slime or two to get gel? that confuses me a bit.

I think, like with mage, summoner start is not really possible. without cheating in stuff. but if you're not that set on "only summon dmg" you can just run around with a sword, bow, or something, until you kill enough snow flinxes or get enough money to buy the leather whip. and after that, it's quite possible to do pure summoner, if you want.

I think if you make finch staff guaranted in living wood chests, it still can happen that
- world generates with no living trees at all.
- world has living trees, but no deep roots and no treasure room, so no chest (and therefore no finch staff either)
- world has living trees, and they do have finch staff, but they're very very far from spawn, e.g. near the ocean shores, and you have to cross the entire map (including very hostille and hard to travel trough biomes) to get it. I fail to imagine most people could aquire those without fighting.

As for tree shaking, most of the times, nothing falls from the trees. and when something does, it's very random. if it would have 1% chance to drop a finch staff (or any crafting material to craft it) it would be way too rare and heavily rely on RNG. you might get one from the first tree you chop, or not a single one through the whole game.
Shaking trees for it would get just as tedious than when you were trying to catch obsidian crates for a lava charm pre 1.4.1 (now it's significantly more common, I got one from the 8th crate now, while couldn't get one from 106 crates the other time. even then, when got on other playthrough, it took around 30-40 crates. it's not fun.
Shaking 300-400 trees doesn't sound fun either.
You would be just stuck doing that if you really want to deal only summon dmg.

The only actually useful way to make it guaranted is, if you can craft it, IMO.

So, I don't think it would be "guaranted" even if it's guaranted in living wood chests, because your world might doesn't have any, or they're extremely far, and beyond very hostile lands.
To make it guaranted, just make it craftable.
And considering the points I brought up, I still wouldn't think summoner would be 100% perfect still. minions, please, leave the gnomes alone. because luck makes a huge difference.
 

Blob [FBI]

Terrarian
@Blob [FBI]

Asking for too much is one thing, but I think it's quite viable points I brought up, like, seriously, with any other class, you can just decide not to attack a gnome, or a lava slime, but minions will kill them on their own...

And, theoretically, it's possible to craft a gem staff without any fighting, but on the other hand, not really, because, you need torches to explore underground, so you likely need to kill slimes. you can buy torches once the merchant moved in, but you won't likely get him without some fighting.

I'm wondering about it more like, what is the reason you say "no fighting"? Is it because you want a playthrough where you only do summon dmg? so, anything that does other, like a sword is no good? or is it about it's tough to kill enemies with other weapons? I'm assuming your point is the first, that you want a playthrough with dealing only summon dmg? but... do you want to avoid slimes and look for pots with torches? or are you planning waiting for the guide to kill a slime or two to get gel? that confuses me a bit.

I think, like with mage, summoner start is not really possible. without cheating in stuff. but if you're not that set on "only summon dmg" you can just run around with a sword, bow, or something, until you kill enough snow flinxes or get enough money to buy the leather whip. and after that, it's quite possible to do pure summoner, if you want.

I think if you make finch staff guaranted in living wood chests, it still can happen that
- world generates with no living trees at all.
- world has living trees, but no deep roots and no treasure room, so no chest (and therefore no finch staff either)
- world has living trees, and they do have finch staff, but they're very very far from spawn, e.g. near the ocean shores, and you have to cross the entire map (including very hostille and hard to travel trough biomes) to get it. I fail to imagine most people could aquire those without fighting.

As for tree shaking, most of the times, nothing falls from the trees. and when something does, it's very random. if it would have 1% chance to drop a finch staff (or any crafting material to craft it) it would be way too rare and heavily rely on RNG. you might get one from the first tree you chop, or not a single one through the whole game.
Shaking trees for it would get just as tedious than when you were trying to catch obsidian crates for a lava charm pre 1.4.1 (now it's significantly more common, I got one from the 8th crate now, while couldn't get one from 106 crates the other time. even then, when got on other playthrough, it took around 30-40 crates. it's not fun.
Shaking 300-400 trees doesn't sound fun either.
You would be just stuck doing that if you really want to deal only summon dmg.

The only actually useful way to make it guaranted is, if you can craft it, IMO.

So, I don't think it would be "guaranted" even if it's guaranted in living wood chests, because your world might doesn't have any, or they're extremely far, and beyond very hostile lands.
To make it guaranted, just make it craftable.
And considering the points I brought up, I still wouldn't think summoner would be 100% perfect still. minions, please, leave the gnomes alone. because luck makes a huge difference.
true, I think craftable finch staffs would be nice
but ofcourse summoner wont be 100% perfect, nothing ever is.....
Its 9pm, wanna rest...thanks for the great talk.....I just want/need a summon weapon we can access...even if its on the other side of the planet, I can make it
 

Quba

Terrarian
I think that a good option for getting the Finch Staff and maybe even Slime Staff could be fishing since it's the main way of getting the items that don't spawn in your world. I don't see any problem with adding a Forrest crate that would contain all of the items found in the Living Trees.
 

Sora_92

Terrarian
I think that a good option for getting the Finch Staff and maybe even Slime Staff could be fishing since it's the main way of getting the items that don't spawn in your world. I don't see any problem with adding a Forrest crate that would contain all of the items found in the Living Trees.
That could work too, but you're still at the mercy of RNG, like all the time with fishing... so, it could still be very frustrating. so, it is a good idea, but crafting it would be the easiest.
 

Blob [FBI]

Terrarian
That could work too, but you're still at the mercy of RNG, like all the time with fishing... so, it could still be very frustrating. so, it is a good idea, but crafting it would be the easiest.
Also, I started a new summoner run, this time just using any weapon I can get till I get my summon
I now havevampire frog staff and a bunch of flinx fur to make the new armour set later

So yeah, definitely more fun this way
 

Sora_92

Terrarian
Also, I started a new summoner run, this time just using any weapon I can get till I get my summon
I now havevampire frog staff and a bunch of flinx fur to make the new armour set later

So yeah, definitely more fun this way
Yes, I think that's really the best way to start, even if you want a pure summoner playthrough. You can't really start as summoner (or mage) but can get the gear for it, now even quite early, even before any bosses. but until that, just use some other weapons.
And this way, it's quite fun. I think.
 

Blob [FBI]

Terrarian
Yes, I think that's really the best way to start, even if you want a pure summoner playthrough. You can't really start as summoner (or mage) but can get the gear for it, now even quite early, even before any bosses. but until that, just use some other weapons.
And this way, it's quite fun. I think.
Indeed
I just really wanted summoners to actually have the option for only summon damage playthrough
But now I realise I geuss that would be too draining and unfun
I got the flinx stuff and I realise the frogs are better than the flinxs in my opinion
 

Timofey7331

Terrarian
I got idea: Class bag. You get it at the start of the game, and you can craft 4 other bags of it. They gives weak start class weapons.
 
Just give a craft recipe for the staff, maybe with wood and some other accessible materials. Seems like a pretty easy fix, i don't see any reason why they wouldn't do this, just like giving 720p screens the same field of view as 1080p screens, something they haven't done despite getting complaints for it for years.
 

Etotheipi

Retinazer
Just give a craft recipe for the staff, maybe with wood and some other accessible materials. Seems like a pretty easy fix, i don't see any reason why they wouldn't do this, just like giving 720p screens the same field of view as 1080p screens, something they haven't done despite getting complaints for it for years.
Expanding on what Unit One said, if you want to complain about resolution issues in every post, put it in your signature =)
 
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