Weapons & Equip Prehardmode Summoner Still Has Issues.

DialgaTheTimeLord

Steampunker
Prehardmode Summoner progression is still terrible. There is no clear sense of progression and not enough variety in tools like every other class has access to. You can easily see this by just going to the official wiki's Class setups guide. There is no summoner armor whatsoever until after Queen Bee, while ranged gets Fossil, mage gets Meteor AND Jungle, and of course melee gets Shadow. That's three bosses later when the rest only take two or less to get. Summoner needs an earlier armor set that grants a single additional minion slot some time before the Bee Armor. It'd be a natural progression from one to two to three in prehardmode.

In addition, there's no reliable summoner weapons until Queen Bee. All the rest are RNG based. Slime Staff is hideously rare, and Vampire Frog has way too many RNG factors involved: first a blood moon, then catching the right enemies, and finally having said enemies actually drop the item, which also involves killing painfully tough enemies with nothing but a basic finch staff, which has poor AI, low damage, and unless you're playing Journey ALSO requires RNG to get in the first place. Specifically, from the outer 2/3 of the map generally, often having to pass several dangerous areas with no access to a summoner weapon. Sure, prehardmode encourages branching out from your class, but all other classes at least have the option to play solely within their own damage types. Prehardmode Summoner doesn't have that option feasibly. You're basically going into fights with the Summoner equivalent of an Amethyst Staff or similar until you beat QB, if you even find the Finch Staff in the first place. Make some craftable Summoner weapons before the Hornet staff. Nobody should have to grind 10,000 slimes for the slime staff, Vampire Frog should be optional like most powerful fishing items, and Finch Staff should just be a craftable starting weapon. 10 wood and a Bird. Easy. Then perhaps make a Shadow summon that's a tiny Corruption enemy. Bam, I just fixed the biggest issue with Prehardmode summon with one new weapon and an added recipe for an existing one.

1.4 introduced whips, which admittedly are an amazing addition, buffing up your single target DPS immensely. The problem they have is... exactly the same problem Staves have. Zero sense of progression. The Snapthorn is a jungle weapon, which while technically can be acquired at any point, keep in mind, chances are you're going into the Jungle with nothing but a Leather Whip and a Finch Staff. Also to get the Leather Whip in the first place, you need to get the Zoologist to spawn and to unlock the whip, which means killing enough enemies with nothing but a Finch Staff. And only one Finch. And nothing else. There should be a weaker whip just before the Leather. Make it out of Wood and have it be a tree branch or something. Branch whips are a thing and probably the simplest a whip could get. Then add another craftable whip between Leather and Snapthorn. Again, Corruption themed seems like a good place for it.

Finally, accessories. Summoner has zero accessories before Hardmode. Ranger also has this issue, but without all the other glaring flaws. Something simple like a slight damage boost and/or a knockback increase would be a nice touch to cap everything off.
 
Terraria on the whole is very bad about helping the player interact with the class system at all before Hardmode. Gunners have the same issue, with the only gunning set being locked behind Skeletron. The only real class before hardmode is melee with maybe a side of mage, who gets both meteor AND Jungle sets to play with.

However, the final tier of armor for pre-hardmode is Molten which only comes in melee flavor, cementing once again that pre-hardmode is no place for real class choice.

I was hoping Journey's End would include a number of tiered class armors for early-game, which would really amp up the replay value, but as it stands with the majority of changes taking place in late hardmode what is even the point of starting all the way over?
 
Terraria on the whole is very bad about helping the player interact with the class system at all before Hardmode. Gunners have the same issue, with the only gunning set being locked behind Skeletron. The only real class before hardmode is melee with maybe a side of mage, who gets both meteor AND Jungle sets to play with.

However, the final tier of armor for pre-hardmode is Molten which only comes in melee flavor, cementing once again that pre-hardmode is no place for real class choice.

I was hoping Journey's End would include a number of tiered class armors for early-game, which would really amp up the replay value, but as it stands with the majority of changes taking place in late hardmode what is even the point of starting all the way over?
Ranged at least got the Fossil armor as of 1.4, as Throwing was... uh, thrown out. Also from what I've seen, Ranged at least has reliable weapons. Minishark, Boomstick, various bows, etc. Summoner weapons pre-hardmode are VERY limited by comparison.
 
Ranged at least got the Fossil armor as of 1.4, as Throwing was... uh, thrown out. Also from what I've seen, Ranged at least has reliable weapons. Minishark, Boomstick, various bows, etc. Summoner weapons pre-hardmode are VERY limited by comparison.
I cant agree more with u,summoner class even with whips still feels left out ,and its such a cool clas to begin with
 
Terraria on the whole is very bad about helping the player interact with the class system at all before Hardmode. Gunners have the same issue, with the only gunning set being locked behind Skeletron. The only real class before hardmode is melee with maybe a side of mage, who gets both meteor AND Jungle sets to play with.

However, the final tier of armor for pre-hardmode is Molten which only comes in melee flavor, cementing once again that pre-hardmode is no place for real class choice.

I was hoping Journey's End would include a number of tiered class armors for early-game, which would really amp up the replay value, but as it stands with the majority of changes taking place in late hardmode what is even the point of starting all the way over?
To be fair, before Molten melee is only really a class if you have a Corruption world and go for Shadow. I think a major philosophy of pre-Hardmode is that players should mix-and-match different weapon types to get a feel for each one. The enemies are weak enough and the set bonuses are small enough that there's not much of a disadvantage to doing so. It's only after Hardmode starts that the armor sets and accessories almost demand more specialization. Hell, I'm nominally doing melee on my Expert playthrough, and yet I still used a Demon Bow with Jester's Arrows to take out Skeletron.
 
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To be fair, before Molten melee is only really a class if you have a Corruption world and go for Shadow. I think a major philosophy of pre-Hardmode is that players should mix-and-match different weapon types to get a feel for each one. The enemies are weak enough and the set bonuses are small enough that there's not much of a disadvantage to doing so. It's only after Hardmode starts that the armor sets and accessories almost demand more specialization. Hell, I'm nominally doing melee on my Expert playthrough, and yet I still used a Demon Bow with Jester's Arrows to take out Skeletron.
As I've mentioned though, each class at least has the option if you really want to. If nothing else, you can at least ignore armors and only focus on weapons in your class... unless you're summoner. From what I've seen, most pure class runs allow neutral armors anyway. The problem is ALL of a summoner's DPS is in the summons, so not having an early game set means having half the damage you could otherwise have. The alternative solution would be having the Witch Doctor sell the minion necklace in prehardmode. The other, bigger issue is that Summoners just don't get good, reliable prehardmode weapons.
 
As I've mentioned though, each class at least has the option if you really want to. If nothing else, you can at least ignore armors and only focus on weapons in your class... unless you're summoner. From what I've seen, most pure class runs allow neutral armors anyway. The problem is ALL of a summoner's DPS is in the summons, so not having an early game set means having half the damage you could otherwise have. The alternative solution would be having the Witch Doctor sell the minion necklace in prehardmode. The other, bigger issue is that Summoners just don't get good, reliable prehardmode weapons.
You're right, of course. The fundamental difference with summoner is that the other classes can (and usually do) use its basic mechanic as an extra hands-off damage bonus on top of their usual class items, but summoners will never have that option by the very nature of the class. What's frustrating is that it feels like the devs were so close to adding enough to make a pure summoner playthrough practical, yet stopped just short of doing so. I wish they'd taken those last few steps.
 
You're right, of course. The fundamental difference with summoner is that the other classes can (and usually do) use its basic mechanic as an extra hands-off damage bonus on top of their usual class items, but summoners will never have that option by the very nature of the class. What's frustrating is that it feels like the devs were so close to adding enough to make a pure summoner playthrough practical, yet stopped just short of doing so. I wish they'd taken those last few steps.
I honestly believe it's because they just plain have no interest in doing anything more with pre-hardmode. Their entire focus is on adding new content to the lategame, which is alright of course, but leaving your earlygame to rot means that you're giving up on improving half the experience for new players, and giving vets less motivation to go back that far in new runs.

Because Summoners in earlygame are basically limited to JUST BEES, I tend to skip right to hardmode on a new playthrough every time. Get that Spider Armor, and proceed from there.
 
Exactly, in addition to summons can't crit. What i never figured out why
It's because red is too lazy to code in weapon-specific crit chance. Since crit chance is dependent on currently equipped weapon, not only is Ruthless the best modifier for summoners, so is it for Rainbow Gun and other lingering projectile weapons (because they take the crit rate of whatever magic weapon you are holding right now, like, say, a Nebula Blaze).
 
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