So how to actually kill Fishron in 1.3....?

[FlakMaster]

Second, there isn't any real indicator that the player isn't allowed to lure him away from the ocean.

Wouldn't you say the same thing for Skeletron, Skeletron Prime (not the same, but some might be tempted to just try to survive instead of killing them) and Plantera?

Most people have to learn the hard way, if not the wiki. If it results in their death, then they'll feel that lesson even more.

 

[Snickerbobble]

Wouldn't you say the same thing for Skeletron, Skeletron Prime (not the same, but some might be tempted to just try to survive instead of killing them) and Plantera?

Most people have to learn the hard way, if not the wiki. If it results in their death, then they'll feel that lesson even more.

Skeletron and Prime will instakill you, but that's pretty much just the equivalent of them flying off to despawn only. There really is no reason why they should do this, but maybe the devs just thought it was funny or something. But if the player talks to the old man, he mentions to come back at night, hinting the boss can only be fought at night. Same with the EoC, the spawner only works at night and only spawns by itself at night. It also leaves when it becomes day. It's clearly obvious these bosses can only be fought during the night, and were intended to have a timer.

The Underground Jungle has many open areas big enough to fight Plantera, in fact, has become more spacious since 1.2 because of Plantera. Beach size has been untouched since Duke's enrage change (and even if it was, players would most likely be fishing at the shore). The whole underground is huge. The player will notice the change of damage and speed once they lure it above ground. The ocean, however, is tiny, giving almost no time for the player to notice the change of damage and speed. They fish him up, 3 seconds later they're out of the ocean biome and die. Plantera takes awhile to lure out so it gives the player a chance to notice, but this is the opposite for duke, as oceans are tiny.

Players fighting a boss for the first time should win with quick learning and skill. I killed Duke on my first try. Second try I took no damage. I hadn't looked him up on the wiki or youtube. I just watched his attacks and quickly adapted to his attack pattern. There were many close calls, but I did it, and it felt great. This is no longer possible, as now I would have been killed instantly, over and over, for something I shouldn't be expected to know. I shouldn't be expected to have an arena, I shouldn't be expected to know he weakens out of the ocean. I should be able to win on quick learning, but the time it takes to leave the ocean is too quick. Instant death is too quick, and is unfairly punishing the player for even attempting the boss. It's not good design. It's a change that didn't consider first time fighters.

 

[FlakMaster]

And I think Duke Fishron enraging outside of the Ocean Biome gives more benefits than downsides.

Maybe not you, but plenty of people are still so attached to using obscene movement methods to completely avoid the boss altogether. They should be discouraged from such methods.

And, really, how is the amount of room shown in the video I posted not enough space? That's plenty of it. Changing directions against this boss won't tear your guts out.

Players fighting a boss for the first time should win with quick learning and skill.

The average player fighting the boss (a frikkin' end-game boss here) are usually expected to die, but also to adapt and learn. No boss should be easily beaten first try, barring the first few introduction ones. The game would be too quick otherwise.

The devs also have stated that some/most bosses are designed to be fought in arenas, because this game is also a building game too. If you want to deny that, then that's just you handicapping yourself. Seriously though, how hard is it to build two strips of platforms and throw a couple of camplanterns everywhere? I get excessive preparation, but a simple arena like that is far from excessive.

An arena is part of the whole preparation skill, alike to potions and gear. This game isn't just about reflexes and aim.

 

[Snickerbobble]

And I think Duke Fishron enraging outside of the Ocean Biome gives more benefits than downsides.

Maybe not you, but plenty of people are still so attached to using obscene movement methods to completely avoid the boss altogether. They should be discouraged from such methods.

So a platform arena to make the boss battle easier is acceptable, but not an asphalt bridge? They're both forms of arenas.

And, really, how is the amount of room shown in the video I posted not enough space? That's plenty of it. Changing directions against this boss won't tear your guts out.

The player will likely fish him out from the shore, and not the edge of the map. The first thing that comes to mind is to run/fly away from a difficult boss, which ends up getting the player killed instantly. And when the player sees they are being hit for 200 damage, that only encourages asphalt bridges rather than discourage them. The player has no way of knowing the boss weakens in the ocean.

The average player fighting the boss (a frikkin' end-game boss here) are usually expected to die, but also to adapt and learn. No boss should be easily beaten first try, barring the first few introduction ones. The game would be too quick otherwise.

The devs also have stated that some/most bosses are designed to be fought in arenas, because this game is also a building game too. If you want to deny that, then that's just you handicapping yourself. Seriously though, how hard is it to build two strips of platforms and throw a couple of camplanterns everywhere? I get excessive preparation, but a simple arena like that is far from excessive.

An arena is part of the whole preparation skill, alike to potions and gear. This game isn't just about reflexes and aim.

Of course, it shouldn't be an easy kill (Looking at you Golem), but this is a completely unfair change, for the simple fact that the player has no way of knowing. You can't adapt and learn to something you have no way of knowing.

The boss was challenging enough for me out of the ocean, and was far more fun as well. I've defeated him since 1.3, but it's just so much less fun for me. If they want to make him enrage out of the ocean, that should be for expert mode only. It's a mode where players are expected to already know the game well, and to give them a challenge again. However, Normal mode is and should be designed for first time players. The boss can be hard, but there's a fine line between challenging and unfair. And punishing a player for something they have no way of knowing, even after 10 attempts, is unfair.

 

[FlakMaster]

The first thing that comes to mind is to run/fly away from a difficult boss

That's not the first thing that came to my mind...or anyone else I know for that matter.

Let's just get this fact out first: A lot of people use the wiki now. More do than don't. So, they'll know what they should be doing.

For those that don't, or otherwise immediately retreat out of the ocean, then maybe they just have to learn to face the boss? Besides, if they truly knew nothing and Duke Fishron came as a surprise, then maybe they should investigate it further. Maybe they should try engaging the boss in a method that doesn't involve abusing super one-direction speed? Heck, if the boss caught them by surprise, they would very likely die anyway, enraged or not.

So a platform arena to make the boss battle easier is acceptable, but not an asphalt bridge? They're both forms of arenas.

An arena that assists you in killing a boss is fine. An arena that completely negates any chance of the boss hitting you is not fine. If that's the way people kill it, then the boss might as well not exist in the first place. It's a waste of development time.

for the simple fact that the player has no way of knowing.

Maybe they'll recognise that the hits they are suffering increases dramatically upon leaving the ocean? Maybe they'll notice whatever buffs Enraged Fishron has the instance they leave it?

I certainly noticed the difference between Plantera and Enraged Plantera when I first made that mistake.

 

[Snickerbobble]

That's not the first thing that came to my mind...or anyone else I know for that matter.

A boss that quickly rushes at you? Hopping into the ocean only seems like suicide.

Let's just get this fact out first: A lot of people use the wiki now. More do than don't. So, they'll know what they should be doing.

I disagree. On expert maybe. But reading the wiki shouldn't be a requirement to face a boss for the first time in normal. Expert was meant for added difficulty, normal is meant for first time players. That's really poor design if needing to check out a wiki first is needed to take down a boss. A player should be able to win with quick learning and skill, and without this knowledge, diving into the ocean seems insane. It seems like suicide.

For those that don't, or otherwise immediately retreat out of the ocean, then maybe they just have to learn to face the boss? Besides, if they truly knew nothing and Duke Fishron came as a surprise, then maybe they should investigate it further. Maybe they should try engaging the boss in a method that doesn't involve abusing super one-direction speed? Heck, if the boss caught them by surprise, they would very likely die anyway, enraged or not.

In other words, "get gud," except they can't just do better if they have no real way of knowing. Your arguments would hold more in expert, but they certainly hold nothing in normal.

An arena that assists you in killing a boss is fine. An arena that completely negates any chance of the boss hitting you is not fine. If that's the way people kill it, then the boss might as well not exist in the first place. It's a waste of development time.

So then, it's completely subjective.

Maybe they'll recognise that the hits they are suffering increases dramatically upon leaving the ocean? Maybe they'll notice whatever buffs Enraged Fishron has the instance they leave it?

I certainly noticed the difference between Plantera and Enraged Plantera when I first made that mistake.

Not with the beach is so small. You seem to be expecting players to be fishing right at the edge of the world, which would give them more time to notice, but that's using wiki knowledge. With no wiki knowledge a player would fish at the shore, giving them just a couple seconds before they leave the ocean biome, and will likely see no change in damage.

Again, it's nothing like Plantera, as Plantera gives you a lot of time to notice, as the Underground Jungle is massive. The beach, however, is tiny, and it only takes 3 seconds to leave it. It takes far longer than that in the Jungle. I'm gonna step out though, because at this rate I'm just repeating myself and I don't feel you are actually countering my points. Apparently "read wiki" is the new "get gud."

 

[Marcus Eralice]

As someone who managed to kill the big pig fish in expert mode (In only two tries, at that), I would like to add my own input.While Fishron may be fast as all hell and seemingly impossible to avoid, turns out he is very predictable and is actually the opposite. I didn't need an array of platforms, I didn't need a railway to escape the enragement, all I had were two heart statues placed on either side of the ocean: More than enough of a setup.

As for my equipment
Chlorophyte Armor (Ranged)
Optic Staff
Daedalus Stormbow + Holy Arrows
Magic Quiver
Frost Wings
Shield of Cthulhu
Frog Legs
Lava Waders
Star Veil

My prefixes were a bit of a mess at the time, but I would highly reccommend Warding

Potions included:
Heartreach
Lifeforce
Ironskin
Archery

A couple notes I'd like to make about the accessory loadout.
The quiver and the Stormbow go hand in hand, vastly increasing the speed the arrows rain down , and overall increasing your accuracy with less need to lead your shots against something which moves fast.
Paired with wings, the Frog Legs allow you to fly as high as wearing the balloons, but without the clunky triple jump beforehand: A wonderful thing for mobility in any boss fight. I don't think I'll use the triple jump ever again knowing this.
The Shield of Cthulhu is perhaps the most important accessory in this fight, turning the otherwise impossible to dodge Fishron into a game of keepaway. It is a wonderful alternative to the Tabi/Ninja Gear that is usable even into late game.

It's rather simple, just keep dashing away from Fishron, making an occasional stop near a heart statue to heal up, and use potions only when necessary. The sharknados can simply be avoided by staying to the other side of the ocean, and the homing shots didn't even touch me once. During the blue haze, the shield comes into best use, but don't lose track of where Fishron is, that's how I lost my first fight.

It was an absolutely hectic fight, and an even more satisfying victory. To be honest, I have no idea if I was undergeared or not, being in Chlorophyte, but it was enough for me.

 

[FlakMaster]

But reading the wiki shouldn't be a requirement

I didn't say it should be. I actually think the wiki should burn to the ground. I just said that a lot of people do use the wiki.

except they can't just do better if they have no real way of knowing.

I really don't understand...are you expecting the majority to be incapable of attempting the boss again to gather more knowledge about it and perhaps defeat it? What is all of this that I am gathering that seems to sum up to "They summon the boss once, get slaughtered and never bother with it again".

I'll repeat this again. If they weren't expecting Duke Fishron, or it is their first time, they are likely to die whether it is enraged or not. So, motivation is not the issue here.

Not with the beach is so small.

Okay, maybe on a small world, which I don't recommend to play on anyway as worldgen does lots of stupid crap. But on what I had? A whole stretch of land. I'd get a screenshot to show just how much, but am currently playing another steam game.

So then, it's completely subjective.

There's nothing subjective about making a boss completely trivial through exploiting super mobility. What is subjective is whether that is okay or not. And the devs have declared what they think of it through this change.

I'm gonna step out though, because at this rate I'm just repeating myself and I don't feel you are actually countering my points. Apparently "read wiki" is the new "get gud."

And I feel the exact same way, seeing how you misunderstood the point of which I brought the wiki into this.

What I have an issue with is how you want a change for people that:

- Don't use the wiki
- Will run away at the first sight of the boss (heck, if people do this, why don't they just use the magic mirror?)
- Does not prepare an arena or have accessories such as the Water Walking Boots to help out
- Cannot recognise the difference between 100 damage and 200 damage as well as the excessive quick charges the boss does suddenly, and at the same time they don't consider that because it seems impossible, maybe they're doing something wrong.

That's a very specific list of requisites that barely anyone will have.

By the way, I am by no means trying to be hostile with this debate, nor am I feeling it. So, I apologise if I come out that way.

 

[General Milky]

My personal opinion;

My first fight with 1.3 Duke was in Expert. I thought the enrage was just his expert AI.

He slaughtered me at LEAST three or four times before I understood, because, my natural reaction to a boss that moved too fast to really dodge, was to get away from him as much as possible. This was my strategy for WoF and Plantera, too. How I learned I was enraging him? I saw someone on the forum mention "enraged fishron" so I looked it up and- sure enough.

It really isn't intuitive to a first time player. Someone who knows how Duke was before this can tell something's wrong and piece it together, but the blind player who can't tell the difference is SCREWED.

 

[Marcus Eralice]

My personal opinion;

My first fight with 1.3 Duke was in Expert. I thought the enrage was just his expert AI.

He slaughtered me at LEAST three or four times before I understood, because, my natural reaction to a boss that moved too fast to really dodge, was to get away from him as much as possible. This was my strategy for WoF and Plantera, too. How I learned I was enraging him? I saw someone on the forum mention "enraged fishron" so I looked it up and- sure enough.

It really isn't intuitive to a first time player. Someone who knows how Duke was before this can tell something's wrong and piece it together, but the blind player who can't tell the difference is SCREWED.

As a player who has never fought Fishron before, I knew enough about him to know what to, and what not to do. Had this been pre 1.3, I'd have likely taken him beyond the ocean, but seeing that he goes enraged in the changelog... In this day and age, information is vital to success. Those who do not have such information are likely to stumble and fall.

 

[TheGuide]

Fought Fishron in Expert with Daybreak/Solar Eruption and Beetle Armor. I like it that you're restricted to the ocean as it makes so you have to dodge attacks and learn patterns instead of run away left/right until Fishron is dead. About the expert 3rd phase Fishron has.... I don't dislike it, but it basically requires you to use certain weapons or else you can't kill him. He just moves way too fast. The only reason I could beat him several times was because I got his health from 10,000 to 3,000 while he was going into 3rd phase.

I used a skybridge on a small world with 475 and no buffs except well fed, it's not as hard as some people might think if you dodge him and use the right weapons.

 

[Xylia]

Well, at least one can just skip Fishron now, as none of his drops are actually important, lol.

 

[Priler]

Terraria is the first game in the world that can't be played normally without using wiki.
It just can''t be.

About fishron, developers are completely insane, in 1.3 (normal mode) i can't kill him in my beatle armor (97 defense) and with megashark + best bullets.
Thought, i killed him in 1.2.4.1 with Shroomite armor (70+ defense) with same weapon.
I've tried about 5 times and there is no result, he is unstoppable, even for me, even if i read on the wiki about tactics and etc.
Now im thinking about skipping this fish shot (or kill him with cheats), because it's at least soooo hard to kill him.

I will be not surprised if in Terraria 1.4 Fishron will have 1.000.000 hitpoints and will make 3.000 damage, and there will be only one tactic to kill this freak - not letting him to hit you even 1 time, or you dead, and for killing him with such tactic it will be required to spent about 72 hours of killing him, and ... after this, you will achieve ... 1 gold!!! yey!!!

 

[Juno Brier]

Terraria is the first game in the world that can't be played normally without using wiki.
It just can''t be.

About fishron, developers are completely insane, in 1.3 (normal mode) i can't kill him in my beatle armor (97 defense) and with megashark + best bullets.
Thought, i killed him in 1.2.4.1 with Shroomite armor (70+ defense) with same weapon.
I've tried about 5 times and there is no result, he is unstoppable, even for me, even if i read on the wiki about tactics and etc.
Now im thinking about skipping this fish shot (or kill him with cheats), because it's at least soooo hard to kill him.

I will be not surprised if in Terraria 1.4 Fishron will have 1.000.000 hitpoints and will make 3.000 damage, and there will be only one tactic to kill this freak - not letting him to hit you even 1 time, or you dead, and for killing him with such tactic it will be required to spent about 72 hours of killing him, and ... after this, you will achieve ... 1 gold!!! yey!!!

I'm going to have to argue Minecraft (which did come before Terraria) also needs the wiki if you want to know what the hell you're doing (looking at you, crafting recipes), but let's not continue that topic.

Anyway, I personally feel the biggest player-killer from Duke Fishron in expert is the new third phase when he's almost dead. The new attack pattern makes him hard to hit and even harder to dodge. It took me by surprise the first time, for sure.

 

[Priler]

I'm going to have to argue Minecraft (which did come before Terraria) also needs the wiki if you want to know what the hell you're doing (looking at you, crafting recipes), but let's not continue that topic.

Anyway, I personally feel the biggest player-killer from Duke Fishron in expert is the new third phase when he's almost dead. The new attack pattern makes him hard to hit and even harder to dodge. It took me by surprise the first time, for sure.

Minecraft got no such horrible bosses, at least, i mean when to kill a boss it is required to dance over the bonfire and ask gods to give you enough power to kill him.
[DOUBLEPOST=1437918043,1437917891][/DOUBLEPOST]I mean my friend killed Moon Lord 7 times, and still can't kill Fishron, i think Fishron is definitely most hardest boss in the game.

 

[Juno Brier]

I mean my friend killed Moon Lord 7 times, and still can't kill Fishron, i think Fishron is definitely most hardest boss in the game.

I suppose it's just that Fishron's harder to cheese.
Try to do it "fair", and it'll definitely be easier to beat Fishron, to my experience.

 

[Priler]

I suppose it's just that Fishron's harder to cheese.
Try to do it "fair", and it'll definitely be easier to beat Fishron, to my experience.

What you mean by "fair"?
Im not enraging him ...

 

[General Milky]

Moon Lord is like 500 times tougher than Fishron, lol.

Also, your problem is you're using a megashark. That's like, so two tiers ago. Upgrade your weapon to take him out faster, and be aware that you need to be in the ocean biome or he goes nuts.

 

[Priler]

Moon Lord is like 500 times tougher than Fishron, lol.

Also, your problem is you're using a megashark. That's like, so two tiers ago. Upgrade your weapon to take him out faster, and be aware that you need to be in the ocean biome or he goes nuts.

True story, pal.

And whats your advice about killing him?
In what? With what? And how?

Today i've tried about 5 times, no result.
I've tried teleportation, asphalt running, two rowed bridges ... only flying into space left.

 

[CanSteam]

ufo mount and put an ocean border