Game Mechanics Temple Guardian (like dungeon guardian)

[Aceplante]

Similarly to how the dungeon is protected by dungeon guardians, the temple should be protected by "temple guardians" preventing players from entering until Plantera has been defeated. Regardless of whether the player got unlucky with a teleportation potion, farmed a rod of discord, did a hoik, or abused shimmer phasing, if a player is anywhere past the temple door, a head should fly up to attack them.

Their sprite would basically be a detached golem head that spins and maybe fires lasers, effectively a hardmode version of the dungeon guardian.

 

[Sora_92]

I think things like RoD does not works there pre-plantera. Hoiks do, but if you ever tried to break in the temple early via hoik - I know I tried - you would find that it barely offers anything valuable. the only actually useful thing is solar tablets so you can summon solar eclipses from the start of hardmode, to farm the stuff the early enemies can drop, allowing you to get neptun's shell, moon stone, bat wings, etc. early hardmode BUT that could be possible also if you just get a solar eclipse at random without you summoning it, as they can happen, even if they're rare.

otherwise there's really nothing in there, just a few gold coins and dynamites, and other random, not too interesting loot. I think you can't even mine the traps pre-golem now either.
that's why I think there's no real reason to go that far protecting the temple, because there's not a whole lot of reason to be so concerned about it. it only allows you to manually summon solar eclipses, nothing else, I think.
unlike the dungeon, which is full of valuable treasures that would be very powerful at the start of the game.

 

[Aceplante]

I think things like RoD does not works there pre-plantera. Hoiks do, but if you ever tried to break in the temple early via hoik - I know I tried - you would find that it barely offers anything valuable. the only actually useful thing is solar tablets so you can summon solar eclipses from the start of hardmode, to farm the stuff the early enemies can drop, allowing you to get neptun's shell, moon stone, bat wings, etc. early hardmode BUT that could be possible also if you just get a solar eclipse at random without you summoning it, as they can happen, even if they're rare.

otherwise there's really nothing in there, just a few gold coins and dynamites, and other random, not too interesting loot. I think you can't even mine the traps pre-golem now either.
that's why I think there's no real reason to go that far protecting the temple, because there's not a whole lot of reason to be so concerned about it. it only allows you to manually summon solar eclipses, nothing else, I think.
unlike the dungeon, which is full of valuable treasures that would be very powerful at the start of the game.

Then why bother having a locked door that requires a key dropped by plantera? Why make the bricks unbreakable? If they wanted you to get in, they would not have made rod of discord not work. Clearly, you are not supposed to get in there early. And any methods of doing so need to be fixed, but just as an extra layer of precaution, a temple guardian would help.

 

[Sora_92]

Then why bother having a locked door that requires a key dropped by plantera? Why make the bricks unbreakable? If they wanted you to get in, they would not have made rod of discord not work. Clearly, you are not supposed to get in there early. And any methods of doing so need to be fixed, but just as an extra layer of precaution, a temple guardian would help.

I think it's unnecessary. if it would been necessary, it would been implemented already.
did you try to "break in the temple" before with a hoik? just curious.

 

[Aceplante]

I think it's unnecessary. if it would been necessary, it would been implemented already.
did you try to "break in the temple" before with a hoik? just curious.

No i never have but now that i know it exists... well I suppose ignorance was bliss. Unfortunately, if there is a way to cheese something or get into the temple early for example, you can be sure players are going to.

 

[firecat666]

Pre-Plantera there's nothing useful inside the temple that can't be acquired outside of it. If you really want to get Solar Eclipse gear at the start of hardmode you can just sit at the entrance and some temple enemies will spawn outside of it and you can farm those for a tablet. Apparently eclipses can't happen until defeating one mechanical boss and I've never seen anyone go out of their way to make a tablet pre-bosses so I don't think this is really an issue.

But I kinda wish this Temple Guardian was a thing just so there's 50% more enemy variety in the temple.

 

[Sora_92]

No i never have but now that i know it exists... well I suppose ignorance was bliss. Unfortunately, if there is a way to cheese something or get into the temple early for example, you can be sure players are going to.

then how about you try, and see for yourself that there's really nothing useful there... XD (besides solar tablets)
the temple could use a little boost to make it more interesting, but adding another countermeasure to stop people from entering is not really what it needs, I think.

by the way, I didn't think about using a hoik on the door for quite a while at first either. what made me think of it was that on modded, one time, due to some sort of bug, a temple was generated without the door XD so, in that playthrough, when I found it, I was like "huh... well, then let's check it!" so I looted the temple right after EoC - because it spawned just after I found the temple, so I went back to fight it first. After that, looted the temple and I found nothing that would really break progression pre-hardmode. you can't even use the solar tablets pre-hardmode. I tried that via hoik later in vanilla too, and there's nothing useful there XD

the only slightly powerful things you can get from it are early solar eclipse loot. but even for solar eclipses, the more powerful monsters won't spawn pre-mech bosses, plantera, etc.
it's just the weaker monsters, so only a few good loot to get, and I think they're all equipments, not weapons. although neptun's shell can be useful, and I think bat wings are the highest tier wings you can get at that point, but they're still just like medium-tier.

 

[Aceplante]

then how about you try, and see for yourself that there's really nothing useful there... XD (besides solar tablets)
the temple could use a little boost to make it more interesting, but adding another countermeasure to stop people from entering is not really what it needs, I think.

by the way, I didn't think about using a hoik on the door for quite a while at first either. what made me think of it was that on modded, one time, due to some sort of bug, a temple was generated without the door XD so, in that playthrough, when I found it, I was like "huh... well, then let's check it!" so I looted the temple right after EoC - because it spawned just after I found the temple, so I went back to fight it first. After that, looted the temple and I found nothing that would really break progression pre-hardmode. you can't even use the solar tablets pre-hardmode. I tried that via hoik later in vanilla too, and there's nothing useful there XD

the only slightly powerful things you can get from it are early solar eclipse loot. but even for solar eclipses, the more powerful monsters won't spawn pre-mech bosses, plantera, etc.
it's just the weaker monsters, so only a few good loot to get, and I think they're all equipments, not weapons. although neptun's shell can be useful, and I think bat wings are the highest tier wings you can get at that point, but they're still just like medium-tier.

regardless of how good or bad the loot may be, the point is you can get into an area you clearly should not be able to. Thats why the brick is unbreakable, thats why the door requires a key dropped by plantera, why shimmer cannot be bucketed until much later etc. Any methods of getting in need to be patched, and a temple guardian would stop the few players that are able to glitch in anyways. Perhaps, with this addition... more loot could be added? a Lihzard yoyo perhaps? or a rod that shoots the golem lazers?

 

[Cave wizard]

There's no harm in letting the player enter early, meaning that the only real reason to do it is for the fun of it. Sequence breaking is considered a feature by many as it adds replay value. Don't fixate too much on how the game "should" be played, when there's absolutely no harm in deviating from the intended path.

 

[Sora_92]

regardless of how good or bad the loot may be, the point is you can get into an area you clearly should not be able to. Thats why the brick is unbreakable, thats why the door requires a key dropped by plantera, why shimmer cannot be bucketed until much later etc. Any methods of getting in need to be patched, and a temple guardian would stop the few players that are able to glitch in anyways. Perhaps, with this addition... more loot could be added? a Lihzard yoyo perhaps? or a rod that shoots the golem lazers?

the lizhard tepmle is pretty disapointing really. it's the last "biome" you unlock, but it has nothing really "wow!"
in fact, if you can loot the place pre-bosses(!) ...a place that is meant to be unlocked in the later half of hardmode! really, it has nothing. lizhards, rarely flying snakes - lizhards can be dispatched easily with a grappling hook and a handful of granades. flying snakes are a bit tougher, but not that bad. no impressive loot. traps can be disarmed easily. golem can't be summoned pre-plantera, but post-plantera he's just a ridicolous pushover. he got some changes I think, but he still seemed like a pushover...

I think the main thing about the temple is that while it is possible to enter via hoik - perhaps shimmer too? I dunno (shimmer might can't be moved with a bucket, it can be moved via pumps. there's really nothing valuable there you gain by doing so. (besides solar tablets.)

There's no harm in letting the player enter early, meaning that the only real reason to do it is for the fun of it. Sequence breaking is considered a feature by many as it adds replay value. Don't fixate too much on how the game "should" be played, when there's absolutely no harm in deviating from the intended path.

this. yes.

 

[firecat666]

I think the main conclusion from this whole discussion is that the temple needs some love.

 

[vessal]

the temple needs overhauled like add in areas pre boss hardmode post plant with new gen new enemies and new loot. similar to the dungeon

 

[Aceplante]

There's no harm in letting the player enter early, meaning that the only real reason to do it is for the fun of it. Sequence breaking is considered a feature by many as it adds replay value. Don't fixate too much on how the game "should" be played, when there's absolutely no harm in deviating from the intended path.

Like I said tho, once they patch all the methods of getting in early, then more/better loot can be added! And a temple guardian would help this issue

 

[stripytiger64]

I had that exact idea with that exact name but i was thinking plantera phase 2 head

 

[Cave wizard]

Like I said tho, once they patch all the methods of getting in early, then more/better loot can be added! And a temple guardian would help this issue

I'd say that's putting the cart before the horse. More importantly, post-Plantera is absolutely packed with gear but has little content to use it on. Adding even more loot to that part of the game is unnecessary. Now, you might point out that adding more content to the jungle temple would help with that, but with the temple being a locked-down, contained and linear location, it would take a massive overhaul (and size increase) to turn it into content that adds meaningful (not just time wasting) play time. I mean, it could be done, but that's a lot of work. And, well, if it's done to give more content to use the current gear on rather than bloating the post-Plantera gear pool further, then there would be no need to add a guardian anyway, if you ask me.

 

[Regret VIUS]

I'd say that's putting the cart before the horse. More importantly, post-Plantera is absolutely packed with gear but has little content to use it on. Adding even more loot to that part of the game is unnecessary. Now, you might point out that adding more content to the jungle temple would help with that, but with the temple being a locked-down, contained and linear location, it would take a massive overhaul (and size increase) to turn it into content that adds meaningful (not just time wasting) play time. I mean, it could be done, but that's a lot of work. And, well, if it's done to give more content to use the current gear on rather than bloating the post-Plantera gear pool further, then there would be no need to add a guardian anyway, if you ask me.

There needs to be more content post-golem but pre-cultist for this to be useful. An event or boss that can only be summoned after golem but isn't required in order to beat the game would be good to use these temple weapons on, in my opinion.

 

[Aceplante]

There needs to be more content post-golem but pre-cultist for this to be useful. An event or boss that can only be summoned after golem but isn't required in order to beat the game would be good to use these temple weapons on, in my opinion.

I'm saying that either way, regardless of whether new content gets added or not, there needs to be something ensuring we do not enter early when we are CLEARLY not supposed to be able to.

 

[vessal]

temple needs overhauled two emays anf traps its not been updated since 1.2 it needs updated more than the end does in minecraft

 

[Cave wizard]

There needs to be more content post-golem but pre-cultist for this to be useful. An event or boss that can only be summoned after golem but isn't required in order to beat the game would be good to use these temple weapons on, in my opinion.

The problem there is that the boss or event would presumably have to drop some kind of loot, bloating the gear pool further. The real issue is that post-Plantera, or arguably post-dungeon, there is nothing to explore, or no reason to explore. You move between gear tiers extremely fast.
"Cool, I got that drop I wanted from the dungeon, now to break my bank on reforging it."
10 to 30 minutes later
"Cool, I got that drop I wanted from the Golem."
10 to 30 minutes later
"Cool, I got that drop I wanted from Duke Fishron/EoL/pumpkin moon."
And so on. Or you can just go directly from Golem to the lunar invasion and get the penultimate gear. It would be really hard to add more worthwhile content to this stage of the game without doing something that takes significant effort, like other dimensions. I don't agree with the idea of adding more gear to this stretch of the game because it would be obsolete pretty much the moment it drops. Assuming it doesn't destroy balance by being massively overpowered, of course.

I'm saying that either way, regardless of whether new content gets added or not, there needs to be something ensuring we do not enter early when we are CLEARLY not supposed to be able to.

I think you care far too much about how the game is "supposed" to be played. There is nothing to be gained from entering the temple early, so there is no harm in letting players sequence break for fun or a challenge. The dungeon guardian exists because there is a lot of very useful stuff to be found in there. The jungle temple is locked to prevent you from summoning the Golem too early, but that issue was already solved by making it impossible to summon it without defeating Plantera.

 

[Regret VIUS]

The problem there is that the boss or event would presumably have to drop some kind of loot, bloating the gear pool further. The real issue is that post-Plantera, or arguably post-dungeon, there is nothing to explore, or no reason to explore. You move between gear tiers extremely fast.
"Cool, I got that drop I wanted from the dungeon, now to break my bank on reforging it."
10 to 30 minutes later
"Cool, I got that drop I wanted from the Golem."
10 to 30 minutes later
"Cool, I got that drop I wanted from Duke Fishron/EoL/pumpkin moon."
And so on. Or you can just go directly from Golem to the lunar invasion and get the penultimate gear. It would be really hard to add more worthwhile content to this stage of the game without doing something that takes significant effort, like other dimensions. I don't agree with the idea of adding more gear to this stretch of the game because it would be obsolete pretty much the moment it drops. Assuming it doesn't destroy balance by being massively overpowered, of course.


I think you care far too much about how the game is "supposed" to be played. There is nothing to be gained from entering the temple early, so there is no harm in letting players sequence break for fun or a challenge. The dungeon guardian exists because there is a lot of very useful stuff to be found in there. The jungle temple is locked to prevent you from summoning the Golem too early, but that issue was already solved by making it impossible to summon it without defeating Plantera.

Perhaps the difficulty of the Cultist/Lunar Events/Moon Lord could be raised in order to implement post-Golem bosses/events that drop stronger weapons, with players using the post-Plantera gear pool to fight these new bosses.