Discussion in 'NPCs & Enemies' started by |.Terrarian.|, Jan 26, 2019.
Except would work on more than just melee
yeah, got that. they still are just temporary buffs though aren't they? so maybe a variant like an item that gives you the same buff could be interesting too
My issue with the 2nd half of the idea is the teiring. It could be a bit of an issue to have a say, skeleton staff intended for dungeoun teir by fighting underground skeletons.
Well, like I said before, the idea would be to have these items unlocked by killing and discovering a certain amount of mobs.
I'll use the Skeleton Staff as an example since you brought it up.
There are 17 Undead Mobs in Pre-Hardmode that I'll count:
Common Undead: Uncommon Undead: Rare Undead:Boss:
Most likely by the time you reach dungeon-tier. You've probably seen all except these 9 here:
By that logic, you've most likely seen these wandering 8 around:
So based on what the player has most likely already seen, I could say that this dungeon tier staff would be "Amount of Mobs Players Have Most Likely Seen + 2 (in this case because of Skeletron would most likely use 1 usually"
Aka: 10 Undead Mob Discovery Requirement for Skeleton Staff to be an option to obtain.
But! If the player were trying to discover more mobs or biomes and happen to run across Tim, Doctor Bones, or go to hell and see a Serpent, then that player would be rewarded for adventuring!
EDIT: Whoops I forgot the Bride and Groom...well they would be under they would belong under Uncommon and at least one the player probably might've seen.
And this is how the Bestiary would also work since I already have those sprites above...This would be the entire Undead Bestiary:
Whew what a cast
Edit: Wouldn't it be so fun to see these mobs just slowly fill up in your Bestiary? <3
--- Double Post Merged, Jan 28, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 28, 2019 ---
Ooo just got a good idea thanks to you, maybe the Pocket Bestiary could literally be an accessory that grows with a permanent +Damage% vs. ______ perhaps maxing it 15% for each category!
Handing it physically to the Zoologist would make her AI spit out a book that would be appropriate for the number of mobs you have Discovered/Killed.
--- Double Post Merged, Jan 28, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 28, 2019 ---
The "see and kill X amount of these" might could work, but I wonder if coding stuff to have "or" conditions could be dangerous (like "kill a bunch of these" or "kill some of these and some of those"... I dunno)
And the list of those creaures makes me wonder about a few things
as for one, I dunno if bone thresher(?) and floaty gross are undead? crimson's theme is generally deformed fleshy monsters that are very much alive (maybe even a bit too much alive XD) I dunno if those would classify as undead.
- would some creatures belong to several cathegories?
e.g. crimslime - "slimes" "crimson creatures"
I guess, if you could have an item that works like a portable banner that adds bonuses against every monster in the bestiary, that would be a quite powerful accessory. Which would make filling the bestiary into an even more rewarding thing to do, and not just for the sake of it being fancy and cool.
To the Idk if a Floaty Gross is undead: https://terraria.gamepedia.com/Floaty_Gross I used this, it says its an "Undead Enemy" not sure how reliable seeing as how Ghouls are classified simply as "Fighters", I see what you're getting at though
And of course there would be hybrid creatures such as a Slimer which is Avian/Slime
And of course filling the Bestiary, such a HUGE multi-world feat, would have to reward the player with an equally as good accessory!
Checked it, and it indeed says that, but yeah, lots of entries just says "enemy" and such.
(not to be confused with "AI type" some enemies have AI that isn't really the group the creature itself would belong to, it's just the AI it follows in behavior (e.g. clinger has plant AI, but it's not a plant. grasshopper follows slime AI but it's obviously not a slime, etc.)
Yeah, hybrid entries makes sense, and a big reward too (how would it e possible to code an equipment or item that grants more buff as you fill up the bestiary pages?
Like I said before, you physically give the Zoologist the Pocket Bestiary (click and drag into a slot) in a section of her chat most likely called "Discover" then when you click another "Discover" button she'd say a phrase like "It seems you've discovered -enemies-! I'll tell you everything I know about it/them!" And next time you hover over your Pocket Bestiary, it will update correspondingly with status and functionality (what is inside the pocket bestiary.)
So basically, she spews out a corresponding updated pocket bestiary based on what you've discovered.
Bam! New Pocket Journal Idea sprite:
(Of course these sprites aren't final, seeing as I can't do pixel art, all I can do is recolor with minor modifications, sorry if you find my renditions plagiarist-esque...)
Are there any other NPCs who can do such? I dunno if it would be possible to code. I could imagine something like the pocket bestiary have tiers or volumes or something, and let's say, tier 1 gives X% bonus agains certain monsters, tier 2 gives more bonus, against more monsters, and so forth.
but I dunno if it would be possible to do something very specific that gets the data completely based on the bestiary entries. that sounds like way too much variables.
so, let's say... she gives you a quests "bring me one banner from all the following creatures: green slime, blue slime, zombie, etc. etc. and if you do, in return, she'll give you a tier 1 bestiary, that provides bonuses against those creatures the banners you collected. then she gives you a new quests, with other monsters, and if you complete it, she either "upgrades" (replaces) your tier 1 bestiary to be tier 2, or gives you a tier 2 bestiary - which grants bonuses against everything tier 1 does, and adds the new monsters' banners' bonuses to it.
this would exclude seriously rare monsters such as nymphs because no one will try to get their banner.
or, the bestiaries could be biome specific (collect various banners from the monsters of a certain biome, trade them with zoologist for the respective volume of the bestiary - AND, you could fuse them at the tinkerers' workbench to your like. in the end, it would create a large bestiary that provides bonuses against pretty much everything, except very rare creatures and bosses. but you could decide to to not get all volumes (e.g. you play on a crimson world and you don't need the corruption bestiary volume or such)
I think the book sprite looks all right, though maybe a bit plain...
Stop the presses, I think you just figured this entire thing out! That is the ultimate cure for an easy code-able Bestiary! Have the Zoologist's Bestiary as one full complete encyclopedia which you can always refer back to, but she could sell biome specific bite-sized volumes that could be crafted into bigger ones!
I'll get started on how that would work, you are amazing ! :3
Yeahh, anything specific you'd like to see it do? If you couldn't tell I literally just recolored the "Book" and took off a line of scribble text xD :
EDIT: Let me come up with some volume names...:
Vol 1. Arbor Adversaries (Forest) -Sold after Slime King/Eye whatever comes first.
Vol 2. Frigid Foes (Snow) -Sold in Snow Biome/During Snowstorm
Vol 3. Tropical Terrors (Jungle) -Sold by default (because she was trapped/obtained from there)
Vol 4. Oceanic Opponents (Ocean) -Sold in Ocean/Fishing in Ocean/Post-Pirate Invasion
Vol 5. Hectic Hell-bringers (Hell) - Sold after Wall of Flesh's defeat
Vol 6. Sandy Soul-Snatchers (Desert) - Sold in Desert Biome/During Sandstorm
Vol 7. Grotesque Guardians (Crimson) - Sold after Heart defeated
Vol 8. Corrupt Contenders (Corruption) - Sold after Worm defeated
Vol 9. Magical Malignants (Hollow) - Sold after 1 Mech boss defeated
Vol 10. Dank Depths (Cavern Depth) -Sold same as Forest
Vol 11. Carnivorous Caves (Underground Depth) -Sold after killing Skeletron
Vol 12. Sporadic Spores (Mushroom Biome Surface/Underground) -Sold by Shroom NPC?
Vol 13. Ancient Anomalies (Celestial Towers) - Sold after Goelm/During Celestial Event
Vol 14. Bloody Brawlers (Blood Moon) - Sold during Blood Moon.
Vol 15. Pumpkin Pummelers (Pumpkin Moon) - Sold during Halloween/Pumpkin Moon
Vol 16. Seasonal Scoundrels (Frost Moon) - Sold during Holidays/Frost Moon
Vol 17. Cross-Dimensional Creatures (Old One's Army) - Sold after Eye of C. defeated
Vol 18. Urban Usurpers (Solar Eclipse) - Sold during Solar Eclipse
Vol 19. Otherworldly Opponents (Martian Event) -During Invasion
Vol 20. Goblin Gauntlet (Goblin Invasion) - During Invasion
Vol 21. Scurvy Shanties (Pirate Invasion) - During Invasion/Pirate Cap can sell?
I feel like Spider/Granite/Marble are too small yet kinda rare to be included in Vol 10. though....
EDIT AGAIN: Looking at it like this, it feels a lot more overwhelming...perhaps have it like a chain, like mix Vol 1. and Vol 2. and get something, then with that Combo + the Vol 3. Vol 4. Combo you get a Combo Combo, and so on so forth?...
EDIT EDIT EDIT: So say if THIS were the ocean book...
and THIS were the desert book...
Perhaps you could combine them
to create Vol 4&6. Sandy Submergence
Which offers buffs against Desert/Ocean creatures?
The idea is part from expedition mod's photo albums and almanacs again. there, albums are often about certain enemy groups (e.g. zombies) and some are more or less biome specific (e.g. antlions) and they can be "fused" into almanacs, although that doesn't happens at tinkerers workshop, but you simply trade all the albums with the clerk for the respective volume of the almanac.
But I think similar method could work nice here too. but you could use tinkerers workshop and stuff, and then not the photo quests, but trading banners or something for respective volumes of the bestiaries.
So, I guess I'm not that amazing XD but I think that that base idea, edited here-and-there, could work nicely for this as well?
Question, would the zoologist sell those books? or would it work like she gives you quests and if you complete it she gives you a book? that could be problematic if quests are random, you could get several copies of the same book and not a single one of others. If you can complete any quests at any times though, then it's fine.
Or alternatively (but this wouldn't follow the banner idea) her shop could change as the character defeats more bosses, that, like, her starter shop has only some volumes, like "slimes" "zombies" and such (based on when she would move in) and as you defeat some bosses, new volumes appear there too (like... "harpies" "antlions" etc.)
Alternatively if it could cause balance issues, she could use some coupon/token system for her wares, not money (similarly to the clerk or the tracker) but questionable what monsters would drop those tokens or how to get them (like, if it would be "trade a banner for a token, you could just farm slimes and zombies for them, which isn't really balanced...
dunno how it would be the easiest to code and the most balanced for the game
as for the book sprite, if it has several volumes, they all could look different. somehow related to the biome or something (you could check out the photo albums' and bestiaries' sprite too from expeditions mod (but copying them would be plagiarism indeed
Lemme edit my last post to explain how she would sell them...
EDIT: Did it. Also added Martian, Pirate, and Goblin, forget them! ;3
As for volume names, they are pretty clever. but this pretty much follows a pattern of "dangerous", which is true, but maybe a zoologist would look at creatures with a more "neutral" eye. where the focus is not on that these creatures can kill you, but that these are the creatures inhabiting a certain place.
maybe I'm getting that idea wondering about the small mod I created, Corru Crim NPCs, and the two fangirls are totally obsessed with the two evil biomes most people on their right mind would try to avoid.
So the zoologist could be a bit "crazy" too from the adventurers'/warriors' viewpoint, that she looks at these creatures as animals and such (noting they aren't harmless though) while your regular adventurer looks at them as dangerous monsters and such. this is just an idea though.
As for fusing volumes though, that possibility would leave toooooons of variables. while it could be convinient, it looks largely unnecessary.
It could follow some pattern like...
first few volumes: common enemies you could see early game. basic slimes, zombies, etc. you can buse these volumes into a single one. no idea on the name yet.
next group of volumes: biome specific volumes. you could fuse all of them into a single volume like dunno... "wayfarers bestiary" or "travelers' bestiary" or something.
you could fuse the started Fused bestiary and the fused travelers' bestiary into a single volume (no idea on name yet)
there could be some more volumes for invasion enemies - goblin invasion only for pre-hardmode... right? or do I forgotten something?
this could be fused with the previous fused one, to make a bestiary that covers most (vanilla) pre-hardmode creatures.
then similar pattern could continue in hardmode.
common hardmode enemies (fuse, then fuse with the book for pre-hardmode)
biome specific hardmode enemies (fuse, then fuse with the previous)
event (invasion) enemies - although... dunno if pirates would be in the bestiary, since they are humans. but they are enemies... so... how would it be the best?
up to lunar events. then lunar event enemies as the last 4? volumes, then fuse them and fuse with the previous to get a bestiary covering pretty much every monsters in the vanilla game.
the fact that a regular world only have either corruption or crimson though, leaves that question, whether you have to get both curruption and crimson volume, or there's some way to avoid having to go to another world to acquire both volumes...
Note: Didn't read the whole thread first, only the OP.
I'm envisioning two possibilities, based on the old banners and the current music box...
Each enemy defeated has a X% chance to drop a page. The page fills in the bestiary for that enemy. Ideally X won't be too low or the pages would be too rare. (Like with banners pre-1.3.)
When the book is 'active', it has a chance to capture information about an enemy when the enemy is killed. (Like music boxes being equipped to record music.)
Tinctures are an interesting idea but they might need something to differentiate them from Flasks. Affecting specific enemy types (e.g. the example given in the OP is silver affecting undead creatures) might be sufficient. Tinctures should probably only be sold after a certain number of enemies in the category have been defeated, probably by way of collecting volumes/pages for the bestiary. That should mean a player has to defeat an invasion / event properly before they can get boosters to make it easier next time.
Too many summon items / staves for my liking. (I often play as a summoner.) I know she's intended to be summon based, but summons already have a decent weapon progression. A selection of various unique items could work - think of unique weapons like the V-Knives, Piranha Gun, Arkhalis or Fetid Baghnaks. Or leave it with just Tinctures being the reward?
That's also an interesting idea! Wow you guys are amazing
If the books are sols by the zoologist, then some of those conditions should be changed I guess. be in the biome sounds okay for biome specific I guess, at least pre-hardmode (although it is a hassle to move NPCs all the time)
but now some of those conditions mean you could get the book when an event is going on, like the current conditions you written for the moons. plus considering the more dangerous enemies spawn the later in the event, you would buy it while only lame mobs spawn, and then it would provide bonuses against the stronger ones too, the first time too you face the event, which is unbalanced.
Old one's army, after defeating dunno... tier 1 old one's army or something? or having 3 vols for the 3 tiers or dunno.
Celestial events probably should be post moon-lord or something.
And should balance some others better too. It's not really good while an invasion is on. after it would be better, IMO.
The problem with having any monsters be able to drop pages, dunno if it would need some huge overhaul of every monster drops which is probably difficult to code, plus it probably lower the chance of other drops which isn't very good since some items already have pretty low chance to drop...
Well this entire concept can be rather game-breaking/game-changing depending on how this specific part goes, its quite the puzzler...
if they behave similar to banners, then not that game breaking. banners would do pretty much the same. the only differences are, this is more banner in one, and its portable
Nah like in the way you aquire these Volumes to get buffs, I KNOW theres tons of ways this could be cheated...just trying to find out what the best way is...the pages system might be kinda extra...I feel the Volume system might work pretty well though especially since they are all bound to the player having to explore and try new things in Terraria.
Well, Flasks can only be used after Plantera and can be used for a much more broad scope of things... in the melee class that is.
Tinctures can be used for any weapon, (hopefully) for use MUCH earlier on, AND are incentive to a new player discovering and searching the nooks and crannies Terraria offers. Whilst flasks are just...oh you unlocked this... 1 bottle of water + ichor = Ichor Flask (which for being so easily attainable and lasting for 30 minutes is extremely over-the-top in my opinion but whatev -3- )
Separate names with a comma.