Update 1.3.0.3 and Moon Lord

[Grimmsy]

You don't need to kill Golem again to spawn new probes. They're random, no matter if night or day, towards the middle or edge of the map. They even go underground if the shaft is wide enough. For some people they are rare, for others they are too common.

The speed of the infinite flying mounts is the trade off for..infinite flying. Do you want them to make so many pretty wings obsolete? It's best to have items with uses for different situations. Wings are much better for dodging, at least vertically.
You don't need, as with many previous bosses, to be able to sustain flight in order to fight them. Even hooks and some platforms can keep you pretty much all the time in the air, with some practice. I'm really not convinced that infinite flight mounts need a buff of any description.

What would be a good alternative is to restore the Rod of Discord to it's former glory and/or even add a quick-use shortcut key for it. Bet most of you forgot that that item exists.

Did anyone manage to make the portal gun useful for the final battle?

 

[Xylia]

You don't need to kill Golem again to spawn new probes. They're random, no matter if night or day, towards the middle or edge of the map. They even go underground if the shaft is wide enough. For some people they are rare, for others they are too common.

They really should tweak it a bit, IMO, one should spawn at the beginning of each day and be hidden away somewhere on the surface of the map, and should be slightly easier to kill to prevent the event from happening.

OR, after the said event... make a broken one spawn on the world that you ACTIVATE manually by destroying it with a hammer, similar to Plantera bulbs.

That way, only the very first invasion is started impromptu and the rest can be triggered by you manually.

The speed of the infinite flying mounts is the trade off for..infinite flying. Do you want them to make so many pretty wings obsolete? It's best to have items with uses for different situations. Wings are much better for dodging, at least vertically.

Wings are still useful underground where there's not a lot of room for a fast-zipping mount. Fishron Wings are still excellent in water. I'm more saying to bump the flying saucer up to the Unicorn's level as it seems a touch silly that something that runs on the ground is faster than a flying machine. The unicorn can ram enemies and do damage and not take damage in doing so.. that's its niche.

EDIT: And besides, saying "You're making wings obsolete!" is like saying "You're making rocket boots obsolete with wings!?"

You don't need, as with many previous bosses, to be able to sustain flight in order to fight them. Even hooks and some platforms can keep you pretty much all the time in the air, with some practice. I'm really not convinced that infinite flight mounts need a buff of any description.

But yet the Moon Lord is different. You either need a big long flat bridge which is boring to set up and make (and ugly unless you put it way up in the air), or you need infinite flight, because of all the darkness, you can't SEE the landscape very well and you keep bumping into hills and things if you try to fight him on the ground using your wings.

What would be a good alternative is to restore the Rod of Discord to it's former glory and/or even add a quick-use shortcut key for it. Bet most of you forgot that that item exists.

The Rod of Discord is incredibly rare, that's why most people forgot about it. It is too rare to even consider to be a "fix" to the problems Moon Lord presents. I don't want to have to farm a semi-rare enemy for an incredibly rare item that I've only ever seen ONE of in all my playthroughs. No Friggin Thanks.

Did anyone manage to make the portal gun useful for the final battle?

The Portal Gun is a drop from the very boss you're suggesting we should use on it? lol. That's cute. "You need X to kill Y, but yet X drops from Y" conundrum.
Not exactly the most ideal of "fixes".

 

[Grimmsy]

- Items that summon events worked fine. Would there be a reason not to have one for summoning the martian event?

- Rocketboots are what, 2 items? Along with balloons they're a stepping stone to wings. Yes, they do become obsolete because they were an intermediate solution. There's a reason we have so many hooks and wings an 1-2 rocketboots and a single hoverboard. But you're right about wings: infinite flight items have no use underground.
You are calling for buffs on a technologically advanced vehicle because it's slower than a mythical creature. No point here, I just found that train of thought hilarious.

-Are we talking Expert mode here? Cause you don't "need" infinite flight to fight Moon Lord. It's a big convenience to have infinite flight but it's not required. There are potions and the basic torches that can help you see the ground well enough. Also you can have scattered platforms to land on/hook to. You can also use wired teleporters to get distance from the boss.
I wouldn't say no to buffing the saucer mount. But is it needed? Hardly.

- People forgot about Rod of Discord because it was nerfed to uselessness, might as well removed it from the game; all because some very vocal elitists called it the destroyer of worlds and the most OP thing in existence in the history of gaming. Besides, I did not call it a "fix". I said it would be a valid alternative, maybe even a fun one, to fight the boss without cheesing (if it's fair for the boss to 3x beam you from 3 different sources, I'd say it's fair to blink-dodge that non-sense).

- The portal gun was an unrelated question, and it was a question, not a "fix" suggestion. Did I not understand correctly that you defeated the boss already? We discussed post Moon Lord gear and ways to fight in this thread quite often. Besides it's a 100% drop. Unlike other gear which requires the player to defeat the boss multiple times; and it's neither directly deals or protect from damage.

 

[Juno Brier]

- Rocketboots are what, 2 items? Along with balloons they're a stepping stone to wings. Yes, they do become obsolete because they were an intermediate solution.

Of course Rocket Boots are obsolete.
That's why you combine them with the Hermes/Flurry/Sailfish Boots to make Spectre Boots. Which you eventually upgrade to Lightning Boots, then Frostspark Boots.
No pair of wings can possibly replace the fast running on land, and all the fast-running mounts disallow flight.

 

[Father Grigori]

Why doesn't Expert Gear count? Surely you don't expect players to beat the Moon Lord before Duke Fishron, right? Besides, you don't need the Moon Lord gear to kill the Moon Lord. It just makes it easier.

Seems that you're forgetting that expert gear comes from expert mode, not Duke Fishron, so in no way did I ever imply anything like that. Nice straw man. Besides this, the commentary I had seen was that Fishron was a "side boss", and that the cultists spawn after beating Golem. Thus it seems that the intent of the devs is to beat Golem, then take on Moon Lord. Obviously, that isn't possible, as I had issues using FIshron & Pumpkin Moon gear, with a heart lamp and campfire, ironskin, endurance, swiftness, life regen, and wrath potions, and cursed flames flask.

My complaint is that the best solution for beating him was to farm Duke Fishron for the Shrimpy Truffle mount, which only drops in expert mode, or to use the portal gun to the nurse, which requires someone to already have beat him.

I'll agree with you on the Nebula enemies. Those homing balls are a pain. I don't mind as much though, since they're there for the challenge. They're difficult, yes. But all it takes is constant motion to dodge them. You should be able to keep what health you lose with potions.

It takes a bit more than constant motion, since they can keep up with frostspark boots+fishron wings. As I pointed out, if you mess up once, they can take a full health tank down in seconds, much faster than potion cooldowns or vampire knife regen. I like a serious challenge, but going all out just to not die constantly? I think I'd be ok with 1 hit, or slower projectiles; they just need maybe a 5-10% nerf, preserving the challenge but removing the frustration factor.

I'll hazard that the whole Lunar Event-Cultist, Pillars, and all-is a little easier for Mages and Rangers, since their playstyles already include a lot of dodging and weaving. It takes some time for Melee players to adjust since the Melee playstyle doesn't usually require aerial ballet tricks to survive.

Actually, my first character I set up as a Mage, and even this second character set up for melee requires a lot of jinking. I think that's oversimplifying and assuming a bit much; I'd never request a boss get nerfed so much that I could face-tank with previous boss gear. I really ought to get my mage up to speed; perhaps it'll be more entertaining that way.


Perhaps a better way to make Moon Lord attack would be to give him phases (like the moon): furious attack, phased but not attacking much, minions, etc. It'd encourage some creative arenas and force players to think. Terraria's strong point has always been forcing players to be clever, not just sending them through laser hell. I think it's time for me to try some of the arena suggestions and other fighting styles.

 

[Xylia]

@Father Grigori :

Are you having trouble with Normal, or Expert Moon Lord?

If you're trying to kill him for your first time in Normal, take a look at this guide I wrote. I do indeed suggest that you go straight from Golem to Moon Lord, with a couple side-trips for a few accessories. In my current playthrough, I have Moon Lord down (I did it following my own guide) but I've not touched any Moons nor Fishron.

EDIT: I will note it is written for Melee, but Terraria is a game where you can be anything you want to be and if one way isn't working out, maybe another way would work better.

 

[ψeud]

Seems that you're forgetting that expert gear comes from expert mode, not Duke Fishron, so in no way did I ever imply anything like that. Nice straw man. Besides this, the commentary I had seen was that Fishron was a "side boss", and that the cultists spawn after beating Golem. Thus it seems that the intent of the devs is to beat Golem, then take on Moon Lord. Obviously, that isn't possible, as I had issues using FIshron & Pumpkin Moon gear, with a heart lamp and campfire, ironskin, endurance, swiftness, life regen, and wrath potions, and cursed flames flask.

My complaint is that the best solution for beating him was to farm Duke Fishron for the Shrimpy Truffle mount, which only drops in expert mode, or to use the portal gun to the nurse, which requires someone to already have beat him.

I'm sorry if I came off as strawmanning; I had thought you were having problems with Expert ML, so I was wondering why you wouldn't be using the Truffle. If you want to fight him on Normal Mode with Normal items, you can use the UFO, a world-long skybridge, or an anti-projectile arena similar to the one used for the Saucer. The general idea is to minimize the amount of times you get hit, and the amount of damage you take when you do.

I've found that in most cases, tactics that keep ML on-screen results in dying horribly once the core appears. It's best to maintain a speed that lets you keep him just at the edge, close enough that he won't speed up or teleport to catch up.

It takes a bit more than constant motion, since they can keep up with frostspark boots+fishron wings. As I pointed out, if you mess up once, they can take a full health tank down in seconds, much faster than potion cooldowns or vampire knife regen. I like a serious challenge, but going all out just to not die constantly? I think I'd be ok with 1 hit, or slower projectiles; they just need maybe a 5-10% nerf, preserving the challenge but removing the frustration factor.

I agree; The Nebula Pillar as of now is becoming a bit annoying to fight through. It was fun the first few times, but the fight gets old really quickly when there's no way to prevent damage outside of danmaku-level dodging, even with post-ML gear. So, assuming that those homing death-balls are supposed to be the precursor to the Nebula Arcanum, I think they should be nerfed in terms of speed/frequency.

Actually, my first character I set up as a Mage, and even this second character set up for melee requires a lot of jinking. I think that's oversimplifying and assuming a bit much; I'd never request a boss get nerfed so much that I could face-tank with previous boss gear. I really ought to get my mage up to speed; perhaps it'll be more entertaining that way.

That's party why it was buffed, I believe. Especially tanky Melee builds could face-tank with the Knives before the leech debuff was added.

The whole "dodging" part is only partially the reason why I believe Rangers and Mages have an advantage fighting ML; Since taking hits now results in a serious case of death, Warriors' relatively low DPS is now no longer worth it--Rangers and Mages in Melee armor could do better.

Perhaps a better way to make Moon Lord attack would be to give him phases (like the moon): furious attack, phased but not attacking much, minions, etc. It'd encourage some creative arenas and force players to think. Terraria's strong point has always been forcing players to be clever, not just sending them through laser hell. I think it's time for me to try some of the arena suggestions and other fighting styles.

This is... actually an excellent idea. Props to you for thinking of it.

 

[Father Grigori]

*NOTE* This was written before trying 1.3.0.5

I'm sorry if I came off as strawmanning; I had thought you were having problems with Expert ML, so I was wondering why you wouldn't be using the Truffle. If you want to fight him on Normal Mode with Normal items, you can use the UFO, a world-long skybridge, or an anti-projectile arena similar to the one used for the Saucer. The general idea is to minimize the amount of times you get hit, and the amount of damage you take when you do.

No problem. No, my issues were 1st time normal mode. The 1st time I beat him melee style was pre-leech nerf with only occasional vampire knife usage and tons of jinking, and the second time (in normal) I had made an expert world just to farm for the truffle mount. With a solid-top arena (with campfire and heartlamp), truffle mount (for the core portion of the boss), solar melee armor, ankh shield, celestial shell, frostspark boots, master ninja gear, and solar wings, I had to use the mount to successfully beat him...but at least I got a star wrath. It's starting to look like you have to really cheese this boss if you don't have post-ML gear (like using a constant low dmg with star veil to grant dmg immunity). With all the issues getting any of the martian mounts, the truffle is the only reliable option, and that requires an expert mode world.
It goes back to pointing out (not necessarily to you) that the guides on beating the boss shouldn't make use of post-boss gear. I don't think it's great design to make a boss (in normal mode) that requires game-breaking tactics just to beat it; sure make it that way in expert, but not normal, as you'll alienate the non-pro players.

That's party why it was buffed, I believe. Especially tanky Melee builds could face-tank with the Knives before the leech debuff was added.

The whole "dodging" part is only partially the reason why I believe Rangers and Mages have an advantage fighting ML; Since taking hits now results in a serious case of death, Warriors' relatively low DPS is now no longer worth it--Rangers and Mages in Melee armor could do better.

The only bosses I can facetank with the knives and melee gear are always a level or two below my current gear; even in Solar armor Fishron will eat me alive if I only use the knives. The knives low dmg makes them most useful as a temporary regen tool...a way to wait out the potion cooldown.
I find that the melee sets' speed boosts make them more conducive to dodging...but maybe that's just the way I play.

This is... actually an excellent idea. Props to you for thinking of it.

Thanks! I have my moments every now and then. I'd really like to see this added; I think it'd make the Moon Lord much more interesting.
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@Father Grigori :

Are you having trouble with Normal, or Expert Moon Lord?

If you're trying to kill him for your first time in Normal, take a look at this guide I wrote. I do indeed suggest that you go straight from Golem to Moon Lord, with a couple side-trips for a few accessories. In my current playthrough, I have Moon Lord down (I did it following my own guide) but I've not touched any Moons nor Fishron.

EDIT: I will note it is written for Melee, but Terraria is a game where you can be anything you want to be and if one way isn't working out, maybe another way would work better.

Thanks for that guide; I'll give it a try soon. I may like it, or at least have some suggestions...maybe even write my own. That being said, I think that ML in it's current configuration is too much for golem gear...and you, sir/madam, are one crazy mofo to try it that way.

My issues are in normal mode; I can't beat the pillars in expert mode, even with ML level gear, crazy dodging, and chugging potions I die in 15 secs or so. In normal, I've beaten him 2x; the first I only got the portal gun and luminite, and the second time finally rewarded me with a star fury.