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Wings Progression Overhaul

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by Xman101, Sep 21, 2015.

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Do you agree with my proposed changes to wings progression?

  1. Yes! Fantastic ideas!

    18 vote(s)
    81.8%
  2. No! The current progression is just fine.

    4 vote(s)
    18.2%
  3. Yes, but I have a different opinion on a change you've proposed... (please post!)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. No, but I have an opinion for a change that could be made... (please post!)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Xman101

    Xman101 Cultist

    Let's face it. The current wings progression is broken.

    Case and point - Frozen Wings, amongst many other examples.

    The point if this suggestion is to rectify the current problem that faces wings progression. I will also include the wings' current stats for comparison. All current wings stats can be found here, on the Official Terraria Wiki.

    Angel and Demon Wings
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    The forgotten, and original brothers of the 1.1 update. Since the introduction of all the other wings, these two wings have been outranked and outclassed by everything else, when in fact, the crafting recipe they have warrants a slight buff to their stats.

    Proposed Change:
    Buff to 1.83s flight time (+0.16s)
    Buff Horizontal Flight Speed Bonus to 117% (+9%) - On par with Bee Wings.


    EDIT 16th April 2016 - Rebalanced Fin Wings from previous no balance change.
    Fin Wings
    [​IMG]

    These wings require, potentially, a lot of pain, sweat and tears to acquire, as they can only be acquired by random chance through fishing quests. While it is possible to get lucky with acquiring them, for the amount of effort it would normally require to get them, the Fin Wings current stats seem very lackluster. For that reason, they should receive a small buff.

    Proposed Change:
    Buff to 1.83s flight time (+0.16s)
    Buff Horizontal Flight Speed Bonus to 117% (+17%) - On par with Jetpack.


    Jetpack
    [​IMG]

    As these 'wings' serve a special purpose, I shall leave these unchanged for now.

    Bee Wings
    [​IMG]
    Currently, these are on par with the current Fairy Wings. As they can be acquired before the Mech bosses, these wings should get a buff, but below that of the dev wings acquired via Treasure bags.

    Proposed Change:

    Buff to 2.33s flight time (+0.16s) - On par with current Harpy Wings, 0.17s less than Dev Wings.

    EDIT 16th April 2016 - Rebalanced Butterfly Wings from previous balance of on par with Dev Wings (2.5s).
    Butterfly Wings
    [​IMG]

    Currently, these on par with Fairy Wings. As crafting them requires killings Moths, a rare spawn in the Jungle, they should be made to be on par with the rebalanced Bee Wings, giving consistency amongst the pre-mech Jungle wings.

    Proposed Change:
    Buff to 2.33s flight time (+0.16s) - On par with current Harpy Wings.

    Fairy Wings
    [​IMG]

    With a relatively simple crafting recipe, these wings' stats should reflect that as well. As a result, these wings have been nerfed to that similar of the Angel and Demon Wings.

    Proposed Change:
    Nerf to 1.67s flight time (-0.5s) - On par with current Angel and Demon Wings.

    Bat Wings
    [​IMG]

    In their current state, Bat Wings are under-powered for when you can get them. As the Solar Eclipse, and therefore, Vampires, can only occur after a Mech Boss is defeated, it would make sense that they should have the stats to match.

    Proposed Change:
    Buff to 2.5s flight time (+0.17s) - On par with Dev Wings.
    Buff Horizontal Flight Speed Bonus to 150% (+50%) - On par with Spectre Wings. Vampires are super speedy!


    Harpy Wings
    [​IMG]

    Currently, Harpy wings are too powerful for when you can get them. Requiring only the Giant Harpy feather, this is quite easily one of the easiest of all the wings to acquire, so the stats should reflect that.

    Proposed Change:
    Nerf to 1.67s flight time (-0.66s) - On par with current Angel and Demon Wings.
    Nerf Horizontal Flight Speed Bonus to 108% (-25%) - On par with current Angel and Demon Wings.


    Bone Wings
    [​IMG]

    Another set of wings that are way outclassed by earlier wings currently. As these wings are only acquired post-Plantera in the Hardmode Dungeon, the stats of these wings need a buff.

    Proposed Change:
    Buff to 2.67s flight time (+0.34s) - On par with Spectre Wings
    Buff Horizontal Flight Speed Bonus to 150% (+17%) - On par with Spectre Wings


    All Dev Wings
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG](Yoraizor's Spell)[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    These remained unchanged, as they form part of my basis to balance the other wings.

    Mothron Wings
    [​IMG]

    These wings can only be acquired after Plantera during a Solar Eclipse, but currently these wings are not as powerful as their counterparts for when you acquire them. As a result, these wings need a buff.

    Proposed Change:
    Buff to 2.83s flight time (+0.16s) - On par with Hoverboard
    Buff Horizontal Flight Speed Bonus to 167% (+67%) - On par with Fishron Wings


    EDIT 10th May 2016 - The Leaf Wings are currently being investigated for their balance. Watch this space!
    Leaf Wings
    [​IMG]

    These wings are very powerful for when you can get them. While they do cost 1 platinum, from the Witch Doctor in the Jungle at night (so, very specific conditions), they outclass all wings prior in this list. These need either a further restriction for acquirement and rebalancing accordingly, or just a massive nerf.

    Proposed Change:
    Include further restriction - Must have defeated Plantera on top of other requirements to buy

    EDIT 10th May 2016 - The Frozen Wings are currently being investigated for their balance. Watch this space!
    Frozen Wings
    [​IMG]
    In my opinion, (one of) the elephant(s) in the room. These wings can be acquired very early in Hardmode (alongside Leaf Wings) with the proviso that you kill Ice Golems in the snow biome while it is snowing (raining). This needs a change, desperately. To keep its current stats intact, I propose a restriction to the acquirement of the Ice Feather.

    Proposed Change:
    Include restriction - Must have defeated Plantera for Ice Golems to drop Ice Feather.

    EDIT 10th May 2016 - The Flame Wings are currently being investigated for their balance. Watch this space!
    Flame Wings
    [​IMG]

    Same as Leaf and Frozen wings, but not to the same degree, as the Fire Feather can only be acquired post-mech currently. However, this is still too early.

    Proposed Change:
    Include restriction - Must have defeated Plantera for Red Devils to drop Fire Feather.

    Spectre Wings
    [​IMG]
    Currently, these are balanced for when you can get them, according to my proposed changes.

    Beetle Wings
    [​IMG]
    Currently, these are balanced for when you can get them, according to my proposed changes. (I consider Hardmode Dungeon and Golem to be of similar level.)

    Hoverboard
    [​IMG]

    As these 'wings' have a special purpose, I shall leave these unchanged for now.

    Festive Wings
    [​IMG]
    I find it strange that the Festive wings drop from the superior Frost Moon event, and yet are weaker than their inferior Pumpkin Moon counterparts. I propose that the stats of the Festive Wings and the Spooky/Tattered Fairy Wings are switched to better reflect the more difficult nature of the Frost Moon.

    Proposed Changes:
    Buff to 3s flight time (+0.17s) - On par with current Spooky and Tattered Fairy Wings.

    Spooky and Tattered Fairy Wings
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    See above at Festive Wings.

    Proposed Changes:
    Nerf to 2.83s flight time (-0.17s) - On par with current Festive Wings.

    EDIT 16th April 2016 - Rebalanced Steampunk Wings from previous balance of flight time on par with Beetle Wings (2.67s) and horizontal movement speed on par with Fishron Wings (167%).
    Steampunk Wings
    [​IMG]

    While these wings are a costly 1 platinum from the Steampunker post-Golem, their current stats put them equal with the current Spooky and Tattered Fairy Wings. I feel that these wings are a little overpowered, even for the asking price of 1 platinum, and so require a nerf. For these wings to still have some purpose, though, I feel that the wings can be repurposed to be overall speedy, but relatively short in flight duration, giving options for variety amongst the post-Plantera, pre-Moon Lord wings.

    Proposed Changes:
    Nerf to 2.33s flight time (-0.67s) - On par with current Harpy Wings.
    Buff Horizontal Flight Speed Bonus to 167% (+17%) - On par with Fishron Wings.
    Buff Max Accent Speed to 113% (+13%)
    Buff Acceleration slightly - On par with Stardust Wings

    Vortex Booster
    [​IMG]

    As I have given the Stardust Wings a buff to contend with these 'wings', I shall leave them unchanged for now.

    EDIT 16th April 2016 - Re-balanced Stardust Wings from previous no balance change.
    Stardust Wings
    [​IMG]

    When put side-by-side with the Vortex Booster, the Stardust Wings pale in comparison in terms of horizontal hover speed. While this is not necessarily a bad thing, the Stardust Wings currently have no real trade-off for their reduced hover speed. I propose that a trade-off be introduced, in the form of a longer boost time.

    Proposed Change:
    Buff Hover time to twice the duration of the Vortex Booster (+~100%)

    EDIT 16th April 2016 - The Fishron Wings are currently being investigated for their balance. Watch this space!
    Fishron Wings
    [​IMG]

    I believe these wings are balanced for when you can get them.

    EDIT 16th April 2016 - Re-balanced Nebula Mantle from previous no balance change.
    Nebula Mantle
    [​IMG]

    When put side-by-side with the Solar Wings, it becomes very clear that the Nebula Mantle is vastly outclassed by them. I propose that these wings become a trade-off from the Solar Wings, with more flight time, but less horizontal flight speed bonus than them.

    Proposed Change:
    Buff to 3.5s flight time (+0.5s)
    Buff Horizontal Flight Speed Bonus to 150% (+50%) - On par with Beetle Wings, 50% less than Solar Wings.


    Solar Wings
    [​IMG]

    As I have given the Nebula Mantle a buff to contend with these wings, I shall leave them unchanged.

    EPILOGUE
    So, what do you think? Do you agree with my proposed changes to the wings progression?

    Feel free to leave comments and your own wings suggestions!

    Thanks for reading!
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2016
  2. samufinland

    samufinland Terrarian

    Seems fair

    It really is weird how the festive wings are weaker than the Halloween wings

    Leaf Wings are extremely costy to reforge, it balances it a lot

    Unlike Frost Wings, they are still pretty cheap to reforge
    Edit: sorry, bad grammar, the Frost Wings are cheap to reforge so they should be needed or made rarer

    Ice Golems are pretty tough tho
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2015
    Xman101 likes this.
  3. Xman101

    Xman101 Cultist

    I never quite understood that from when Festive Wings were released.

    Plus, doesn't it seem odd that it is the only wings to not require souls of flight to craft?

    EDIT: Sorry, just realised this statement was too vague. I meant that of all the wings that are NOT purchased, the Festive Wings are the only set of wings that directly drop from an enemy, instead of a crafting material to be combined with souls of flight.
    In my opinion, high cost does not allow something to be overpowered in its tier. And it clearly falls under the Flame/Frost/Spectre tier of wings currently.

    But, if anything, Leaf Wings might need to be reduced in price, to say 50 or 75 gold (or maybe even less!). 1 plat seems a little steep, given the rebalancing I've given it.
    Nice to know you like my suggestion. And thanks for posting your feedback! :happy:
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2015
  4. samufinland

    samufinland Terrarian

    I'm not going to buy Leaf wings because the reforge would cost too much
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 21, 2015, Original Post Date: Sep 21, 2015 ---
    Plus on a side note, you could have used the shiny eye and the weird particles on The Dev Spell thing
     
  5. Xman101

    Xman101 Cultist

    If the price was 25 gold, that would make the standard reforge price 10 gold, if I remember correctly, which would make it equal to all the Duke Fishron weapons. But... for a whole set of wings, 25 gold sounds a little cheap, don't you think?

    It's a little a bit of a conundrum.

    Which I is why I preferred to go with something higher. You take a risk with your money to get a good set of wings, and go for pot luck with its reforge.

    Something like this will never satisfy everyone, unfortunately.

    EDIT: I see you've made a couple of edits. Let me address them.
    If they are cheap to reforge, perhaps the price needs to be raised. But I haven't really addressed reforge prices at all, so that'll have to wait until I have a closer look into it.

    And yes, Ice Golems are tough. But oh so cheeseable as well, even early on in Hardmode. So I don't think that justifies leaving the Frost Wings in their current state.

    I don't quite understand this statement. I know you are talking about Yoraizer's Spell, but that's about it. Perhaps you could elaborate a little clearer, please?
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2015
  6. samufinland

    samufinland Terrarian

    [QUOTE="I don't quite understand this statement. I know you are talking about Yoraizer's Spell, but that's about it. Perhaps you could elaborate a little clearer, please?[/QUOTE]
    Oh, sorry

    You used just text on Yoraizer's spell, it does edit the player's look, kind of

    With particles

    But it would be hard to find a clear picture of it because it can be changed so much and it changes depending if you move, fly or in whitch accessory a lot you placed the item

    Yeah, the text is fine
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 21, 2015, Original Post Date: Sep 21, 2015 ---
    Oh, maybe the buy prize would be too expensive then

    I think they might need a nerd
    And lower prize, altho I have seven platinum and I never farmed

    Haven't even beaten any Mechanical Bosses yet
     
  7. Xman101

    Xman101 Cultist

    I could find a suitable .gif of it, but not until I'm on a proper computer.
    I'll assume you're talking about the Leaf Wings.

    The problem with Frost, Leaf (and to a lesser extent, Flame) wings, is that they completely outclass all wings pre-Plantera at the moment. And since these wings can be acquired pre-Plantera, that throws off any sort of wings progression prior to Plantera, because a majority of people will try these powerful wings as early as they can, which they can do right now.

    And like I said, the high cost of the Leaf Wings is to make sure they are not too easily accessible. That's true now, and in my proposed changes. Maybe the price can reduced a little bit, but that's as far I would personally want to go.
     
  8. samufinland

    samufinland Terrarian

    [QUOTE="And like I said, the high cost of the Leaf Wings is to make sure they are not too easily accessible. That's true now, and in my proposed changes. Maybe the price can reduced a little bit, but that's as far I would personally want to go.[/QUOTE]
    Yeah, probably
     
  9. Sword Ace

    Sword Ace The Destroyer

    I agree! Leaf Wings really need a nerf.
     
    Xman101 likes this.
  10. Xman101

    Xman101 Cultist

    *Brushes up on 6 month old suggestion*

    Yes. It's either nerf the stats or nerf the time of acquisition, in my opinion.

    (I decided on time of acquisition, just because I didn't want to sit on the fence.)

    Anyway, nice to see my 6 month old suggestion is still reaching people. :D
     
    Sword Ace likes this.
  11. DaPielord

    DaPielord Eye of Cthulhu

    We need this. It makes more of a tech tree feel, and every set of wings has a chance at being top of it's tier. Maybe also a way to custom design wings using souls of flight?
     
    Xman101 likes this.
  12. Xman101

    Xman101 Cultist

    It would certainly give a lot more reasons to get the lower-tier wings early in hardmode, as Leaf Wings and Frost Wings currently hold that slot.

    And that way, you'll be visiting your old friend Wyvern more than ever before! :D
     
    Sword Ace likes this.
  13. samufinland

    samufinland Terrarian

    Speaking of Wyverns, when I was farming Moon Lords, I was forced to fly fight high on the air several times to dodhe the giant laser. Sometimes a Wyvern would just start following me at the middle of the battle, just to be ignored and killed seconds later
     
  14. Xman101

    Xman101 Cultist

    Yes, well, that's the Wyvern for you. But it's not exactly on topic, so let's try to keep it on the topic of wings and progression.
     
  15. samufinland

    samufinland Terrarian

    It has Wyverns and flying?

    Frost Wings are OP. Ice Golems are ridiculously easy to farm even in Expert Mode, they are slow and they shoot from their head. You can just create a small box with one side open and attack it with anything, its lasers will just hit the ceiling
     
  16. RealSaucer

    RealSaucer Plantera

    If it hasn't been changed recently, aI think the Vortex and Solar Wings are straight upgrades to Stardust and Nebula Wings respectively. That should be changed.
     
  17. Xman101

    Xman101 Cultist

    Hmmm. Now that I think about it, your right. I can especially see that Nebula is totally outclassed by Solar, since I ALWAYS go for Solar wings. Nothing else.

    Perhaps Solar is even a little too powerful compared to the other two, aside from horizontal movement...

    I'll get back to you on this one. It's going to require some thought.

    EDIT: And while I'm at it, I may as well consider some other wings that I have not considered up until now.

    The Fin Wings are very low powered for the blood, sweat and tears that one might go through to get these wings compared to other similar tier (time of acquisition, in this case pre-mech) wings. Of course, one might still get lucky with them as well.

    At this point, I may consider giving them a buff, but I still need to give this one some thought as well.

    The Steampunk wings rebalancing I gave still puts them above all other wings before Fishron or Celestial wings (maybe aside from the Hoverboard, but I'm not counting that for now.), so they're still probably a tad OP.

    I might consider a rebalance of flight time vs horizontal speed movement (and maybe flight speed), but once again this needs some thought.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2016
  18. Xman101

    Xman101 Cultist

    Thread Update!

    I have finished some of the aforementioned balancing of wings, namely the Fin Wings, Steampunk Wings and Nebula Mantle.

    Fin Wings are now balanced to be somewhere in the middle of pre-mech wing progression.
    Steampunk Wings have been completely repurposed as speedy, but short flight time.
    The Nebula Mantle now has trade-offs with the Solar Wings.

    I did a small change to Butterfly Wings, as I was never happy with my reasoning for making them the absolute best wings pre-mech. They are now on par with the rebalanced Bee Wings.

    I also changed the balancing of the Stardust Wings, to give them a trade-off compared to the Vortex Booster.

    That's it for the new content in the thread.
    Given that I have done a major amount of rebalancing for wings around post-Plantera, I was wondering if there was a need to change the balance of the Fishron Wings. For that reason I'll bring them under scrutiny sometime soon to see if it is balanced amongst my host of changes.
     
  19. The fishron wings are kinda weird, in that you CAN acquire them at any point in Hardmode, but it's not even remotely feasible to do so without at least Golem-tier equipment. They ARE extremely good, though, particularly in water; perhaps their out-of-water stats could be nerfed a little?
     
    Xman101 likes this.
  20. Xman101

    Xman101 Cultist

    It's been a little while, but here's just a quick update.

    Recently, I realised that while I've been balancing other wings around the stats of the Dev Wings, I have not addressed a major shortage of wings available Post-Mech, Pre-Plantera that are NOT reliant on Dev sets dropping from Treasure Bags; especially when you consider normal mode, which cannot get the Dev Wings at all. Granted, progression can be very quick at that part of the game, but I feel that should not justify a lack of wings progression.

    I have also noticed that per my changes, there appears to be a LOT of wings made available after Plantera's defeat right now, and so it feels a little congested in the number of wing options immediately available.

    To kill two birds with one stone, I was considering moving the trio of Flame, Frost and Leaf Wings to Post-Mech (from my change of moving them to Post-Plantera) and re-balance them accordingly. I can't decide whether to give them trade-off options for these wings or to just give them the stats of the Dev Wings (maybe slightly worse for the Leaf Wings) to keep them in line with the wing balance of Post-Mech, Pre-Plantera.

    In other news, I feel as though I didn't give the Stardust Wings enough of a buff to contend with the Vortex Booster, since the Stardust Wings with twice the duration but half the speed of the Vortex Booster averages out to be around the same distance travelled, at least in my head. I haven't tested whether the current balancing ends up putting the Stardust Wings at approx. half the distance travelled to the Vortex Booster, but if this is the case, then I would say doubling the Stardust Wing's duration of boost is perhaps not enough of a buff.

    Perhaps changing the duration of the Stardust Wing's boost to 2.5 or even 3 times the current balancing could make it balanced? I'm not sure.

    Suggestions for these ideas would be greatly appreciated.

    EDIT: Also updated the poll, because I felt a 'No, but...' option was needed to balance out the 'Yes, but...' option.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2016