Azu
Retinazer
The game shouldn't bend 95% of the game to fit the needs of 5% of it. Don't like an item, ban it.
PC With 1.3.1 coming up, I would like to speak on behalf of the PvP community. (read tl;dr)
- Thread starter Pikey
- Start date
Juno Brier
Eye of Cthulhu
Of course there's more to Terraria than digging and collecting.
There's also tons of PvE.
Forgot to mention that, didn't you?
xtpkt
Queen Bee
I didn't mention it because balancing should only be applied when pvp is toggled on.
If you take mods like tshock into the equation, then a plugin dev could simply implement a plugin that would allow server admins to ban certain items from being used when pvp is toggled. However, that is a third party mod and such a plugin wouldn't do much balancing for 1.3 balancing other than disabling items the server admin deems unfair completely.
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Pikey
Official Terrarian
This isn't what the thread is about. This is a thread regarding a simple opinion shared by the pvp folk. We're not here to dispute Pve and boss fighting.
There is enjoyment to that aspect of gaming of course. The developers of terraria didn't work on mob and boss AI's for no reason. They did it for players to be immersed.
It just so happens that there is a different kind of immersion when pvp is involved. It's hard to tell what goes on in the mind of another human being. No amount of programming can reproduce that kind of gameplay.
Again, we do not dispute that pve can be fun. It just isn't what this thread is about.
Pikey
Official Terrarian
Look, we are a different demographic of player than your crowd. What we present is a suggestion. Not exactly a demand. I'm sure you would be vocal about something you weren't happy with.
It's unfortunate that we have to be the ones who suffer instead of yourself. We can't really control what weapons go into the game and what don't. Yes, sure. Server operators can ban items and that's fine. There used to be heaps of servers with item bans and such. And many servers with item bans still do exist.
At the end of the day, if there won't be a change to the certain amount of scaling to endgame weapons, we can't really do any more than what we are doing. Operators of servers will have no choice but to ban certain gear. We wish it didn't have to be that way, but it's just how it is.
My single biggest issue is the invincibility frames when playing pvp multiplayer. That is most definitely a glitch.
And also, even if we did get our way regarding some aspects of the endgame gear, I seriously don't think the experience would be detrimental to the 95% as you've stated.
FlakMaster
The Destroyer
Glitches need to be fixed, so yeah, that's a given. I wouldn't really mind if people were given better tools to handle PvP servers (would that not come with modding support that Redigit hinted?). This is kind of meant to be a sandbox game.
Anything more, while it might not directly detract the PvE experience, will take up development time for the main focus of the game. That's the only real reason I can think of, unless the dev team are going full out on PvP for some random reason. I'm not going to follow the crowd and state that catering a little to PvP will cock up PvE balance completely, because that is simply not true.
I also need to reinstate why is it so that 1.3 messed up PvP balance whereas 1.2 made it perfect? 1.2 made the same leap in spammy weaponry in comparison to 1.1, and people were saying at the release of 1.1 the same thing as this. This isn't to say that 1.3 end-game weapons aren't imbalanced for PvP, it is to point out a little irony.
Anything more, while it might not directly detract the PvE experience, will take up development time for the main focus of the game. That's the only real reason I can think of, unless the dev team are going full out on PvP for some random reason. I'm not going to follow the crowd and state that catering a little to PvP will cock up PvE balance completely, because that is simply not true.
I also need to reinstate why is it so that 1.3 messed up PvP balance whereas 1.2 made it perfect? 1.2 made the same leap in spammy weaponry in comparison to 1.1, and people were saying at the release of 1.1 the same thing as this. This isn't to say that 1.3 end-game weapons aren't imbalanced for PvP, it is to point out a little irony.
Pikey
Official Terrarian
If anyone is interested, This is my official bug report on the invincibility frames issue.
http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/invincibility-frames-in-pvp-aegis.32136/#post-708410
You can read what I have to say. Instead, you can also go on the youtube link to see exactly what i'm talking about.
Note: You are going to have to watch it in fullscreen to read the txt. Sorry guys.
Also, Flak, I've looked up the 1.2 changelog and have seen the spammy weapons you're all talking about. They honestly aren't as bad as the new moonlord endgame.
Yes, it would be nice for us if these weapons were a little better balanced so servers wouldn't need to ban everything, but sometimes things do not work that way. And it may not work the way we want either.
But please, do not simply shut us down because we enjoy the game a little differently than you might. All the voices against us don't really have much business being on this thread. Whenever we have a conflicting opinion on this thread, it's simply you having a bad opinion of our own suggestion.
http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/invincibility-frames-in-pvp-aegis.32136/#post-708410
You can read what I have to say. Instead, you can also go on the youtube link to see exactly what i'm talking about.
Note: You are going to have to watch it in fullscreen to read the txt. Sorry guys.
Also, Flak, I've looked up the 1.2 changelog and have seen the spammy weapons you're all talking about. They honestly aren't as bad as the new moonlord endgame.
Yes, it would be nice for us if these weapons were a little better balanced so servers wouldn't need to ban everything, but sometimes things do not work that way. And it may not work the way we want either.
But please, do not simply shut us down because we enjoy the game a little differently than you might. All the voices against us don't really have much business being on this thread. Whenever we have a conflicting opinion on this thread, it's simply you having a bad opinion of our own suggestion.
FlakMaster
The Destroyer
Again, me comparing 1.3 to 1.2 and 1.1 was for a completely different point, not to say that x update was better balanced.
In response to what? What did I say that caused such a reaction? I'm in the middle here, not going with the anti-PvP folk, whereas not being on the other side either. That's known as unbiased.
In response to what? What did I say that caused such a reaction? I'm in the middle here, not going with the anti-PvP folk, whereas not being on the other side either. That's known as unbiased.
Hie the Badger
The Destroyer
Pikey
Official Terrarian
No matter what happens, pvp in terraria can never be 100% balanced. Even fighting games have tiers. And creators of fighting games spend months or years balancing only to find that there is a clear imbalance regarding classes and such. All we ask is for a way to utilize skill in some way that involves more effort and skill.
If you've ever played endgame pvp now, it's basically rock, paper, scissors. We just want a little variety to the endgame. The cool thing about last update is that many things that have been around for a plethora of patches were proven to be good weapons that needed a good amount of skill and patience to master.
@FlakMaster That comment wasn't entirely centered on you. I was just going over the entire thread after I read your reply.
"Also, Flak, I've looked up the 1.2 changelog and have seen the spammy weapons you're all talking about. They honestly aren't as bad as the new moonlord endgame."
-This is where my reply to you ended.
I think a pvp balance could even make mobfighting enjoyable too.
If you've ever played endgame pvp now, it's basically rock, paper, scissors. We just want a little variety to the endgame. The cool thing about last update is that many things that have been around for a plethora of patches were proven to be good weapons that needed a good amount of skill and patience to master.
@FlakMaster That comment wasn't entirely centered on you. I was just going over the entire thread after I read your reply.
"Also, Flak, I've looked up the 1.2 changelog and have seen the spammy weapons you're all talking about. They honestly aren't as bad as the new moonlord endgame."
-This is where my reply to you ended.
I think a pvp balance could even make mobfighting enjoyable too.
Juno Brier
Eye of Cthulhu
Yeah, if by "Rock-Paper-Scissors" you mean "Nuke-Meteor-Supervolcano".
I'd say PvP these days is, more accurately, a quick-draw. Whoever clicks first wins, pretty much.
Hie the Badger
The Destroyer
I've experienced it in a few MMOs where pvpers will complain up and down about something being too unbalanced in pvp and it ends up getting changed in pve as well. I for one don't want pve touched with pvp balancing just because people want to kill eachother with plenty of 
talk spam in the chat as well. We've already got a pvp mode so turning that on should activate hidden debuffs that balance things out.
That's the only way we can do this and make everyone happy.
talk spam in the chat as well. We've already got a pvp mode so turning that on should activate hidden debuffs that balance things out. That's the only way we can do this and make everyone happy.
FlakMaster
The Destroyer
PvP games can never be 100% balanced. That's something I've come to learn. If you think I'm talking out of my
, I do have many years of Halo (3, Reach and 4), Planetside 2 and other tid bits to give enough background for PvP games.Heck, I think 100% balance as a whole is an extreme rarity.
Apologies then, I didn't interpret your post properly.
Pikey
Official Terrarian
There is someone I was speaking to on a server I go on. He goes by the name, Catavalyst. He pointed something very important out regarding pvp balancing.I've experienced it in a few MMOs where pvpers will complain up and down about something being too unbalanced in pvp and it ends up getting changed in pve as well. I for one don't want pve touched with pvp balancing just because people want to kill eachother with plenty of
That's the only way we can do this and make everyone happy.
All your homing weapons, Chlorophyte Bullets, Flairon Bubbles, Scourge of the Corruptor, They all don't home in during pvp. That itself is a testament that there was a pretty strong desire of the devs to balance pvp in some way.
Again::::: Even if things weren't exactly touched next update, it's an issue the fans and players cannot really help.
Juno Brier
Eye of Cthulhu
That, or adding extra coding to make them home in on players is too much trouble, since they'd home in on players they can't hit (teammates, people not doing PvP, the user) if the devs didn't jump through the hoops to make them check if every player within the homing search range is in PvP and not on same team as the owner of the projectile before considering them as a possible target.
Plus most of the weapons with homing are insanely overpowered in PvP anyway, so the lack of player homing doesn't help in the slightest.
Pikey
Official Terrarian
So you seriously think that the developers would make homing weapons in a 2D pc game if it were easier to code? I honestly doubt they'd unbalance gameplay like that. And I am very sure there would be such an avenue to do so without all the problems you've stated. I do think they did have some pvp balancing in mind.
Explain the star veil or cross necklace bonus not being valid in pvp? I think that would be another act of balancing.
They didn't have the pvp button on the right hand side for no reason at all.
Psittacidae13
Terrarian
I'm still wondering: would it be difficult to program in a "Deals -x% Damage to Players" statistic for the Moon Lord drops? That way they're only nerfed in PvP, they would become more viable for PvP and no other aspect about them would come to any sort of harm, like the damage against any non-player mobs. They'll still be the gloriously overpowered weapons we all earned the hard way, and they won't turn PvP matches into curb-stomp battles against players who don't have them yet.
xtpkt
Queen Bee
^^^^^^^
PvP balancing would have no effect on PvE whatsoever, there is a PvP button, balancing should only be applied to when PvP is toggled.
Zesty_Limez
Terrarian
Sniper Rifle.
Juno Brier
Eye of Cthulhu
Also don't forget the Snowman Cannon.