Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

[Justerbate]

So ideally you want the terra blade to be crafted w/ the broken hero sword after golem but at this point can only gate mothrom behind plantera. Would an ancient manipulator for the crafting station (with a suitable buff) be considered too late? Theres not much in the way of materials that is exclusive to post golem content besides fragments and golem loot drops.

 

[Acamaeda]

I like the idea of True Night's Edge becoming a pre-Mechs weapon, to make it more rewarding to go through the effort to get Night's Edge in the first place.

 

[JohannSimm]

In an ideal world . . . Terra Blade would be post-Golem, I think. But I see even less of a clean way to do that, aside from locking Mothron behind Golem, and I don't think I can swing that one, it would require rebalancing multiple items to account for it, and probably buffing Mothron as well. Too much damage left in its wake.

As for the whole Excalibur/True Excalibur situation, I think True Excalibur has room to grow, it could support buffs. Its biggest limitation is that if I buff it too much, it invalidates Terra Blade, which could not be similarly buffed in turn. This re-arrangement will probably allow me to buff all three.

-> Mothron spawns post-Plantera (it drops EoC and Mothron wings)
-> After you defeat Golem, Mothron now also has a chance to drop Broken Hero Swords

Maybe adding Beetle Husks, Shroomite and Spectre bars to the Terra Blade's recipe? (Only using Husks is a bit weird)

Here's an idea I had. This makes True Night's Edge post-mechanical boss(es), True Excalibur post-Plantera, and Terra Blade post-Golem.

True Night's Edge (crafting)
– Night's Edge
– 1 Soul of Fright
– 1 Soul of Might
– 10 Soul of Night
– 1 Soul of Sight

OR

True Night's Edge (crafting)
– Night's Edge
– 10 Soul of Night
– 3 (any mech boss soul)

True Excalibur (crafting)
– Excalibur
– 10 Soul of Light
– 6 Spectre Bar

Terra Blade (crafting)
– True Night's Edge
– True Excalibur
– 1 Broken Hero Sword (now post-Golem drop)

Broken Hero Sword now only drops from Mothron post-Golem (and possibly also 0.4% from Frankenstein and Swamp Thing), or drops from Golem as a guaranteed drop the first time you defeat it (similar to how the Grenade Launcher drops from Plantera as a guaranteed drop the first time you defeat it). Now that Broken Hero Sword no longer drops pre-Plantera, Mothron is moved to post-Plantera to be in line with its main drops.

All three swords get rebalances to be in line with their new places in the progression. True Excalibur now makes True Night's Edge obsolete, but both are obsoleted by Terra Blade, which ends up being on par with the Influx Waver. (The choice of which to use should come down to preference and convenience.)

So ideally you want the terra blade to be crafted w/ the broken hero sword after golem but at this point can only gate mothrom behind plantera. Would an ancient manipulator for the crafting station (with a suitable buff) be considered too late? Theres not much in the way of materials that is exclusive to post golem content besides fragments and golem loot drops.

Currently Mothron is gated behind the mechanical bosses, but most of its drops are gated behind Plantera. Broken Hero Sword can easily be gated behind Golem in a similar fashion. Therefore, no special crafting station is necessary. Naturally, Mothron would have to be moved to post-Plantera, as it would no longer have any post-mech drops.

The Broken Hero Sword can even be made a Golem drop to reduce RNG, but it's probably better that it remain on Mothron, as making it a Golem drop would reduce the usefulness of Solar Tablets and Solar Eclipses.

 

[Justerbate]

Leinfor already stated he would have a difficult time getting broken hero sword gated behind golem approved, though i do agree that still may be the easiest solution

 

[Mental Mouse]

Another item that's extremely rare is the demon conch, crafting it from magic conches and ash near lava would be neat, and kind of intuitive. And yeah, you can get one from fishing in lava, but uh... how often can you actually fish in lava without several long trips to the underworld?

Well, you don't necessarily need "several long trips", but you do need to catch some Hellbait. Once you get that you can make your own lava pool and fish for crates until you get the Lavaproof Fishing Hook, and then Bob's your uncle.

 

[JohannSimm]

Leinfor already stated he would have a difficult time getting broken hero sword gated behind golem approved, though i do agree that still may be the easiest solution

In an ideal world . . . Terra Blade would be post-Golem, I think. But I see even less of a clean way to do that, aside from locking Mothron behind Golem, and I don't think I can swing that one, it would require rebalancing multiple items to account for it, and probably buffing Mothron as well. Too much damage left in its wake.

I think the problem was moving Mothron to post-Golem, as it would mess up Mothron's other drops. The Broken Hero Sword can easily be made post-Golem without any changes to the enemy. There's already precedent with Mothron's other drops – despite being a post-mech enemy, most of Mothron's drops only drop after Plantera is defeated. Mothron could easily be changed to only drop the Broken Hero Sword post-Golem, without affecting the enemy's place in the progression at all.

Unless Leinfors said something specifically against moving the Broken Hero Sword (and only the Broken Hero Sword) in the progression, I think that making it post-Golem shouldn't be too hard a sell.

 

[Justerbate]

Ah you're right Johann, he was referring to Mothrom itself and not just the drop. In which case i do agree with your solution. I think i said the same thing earlier actually lol =P

 

[JohannSimm]

Ah you're right Johann, he was referring to Mothrom itself and not just the drop. In which case i do agree with your solution. I think i said the same thing earlier actually lol =P

Frankly, I'm quite relieved. For a moment, I was afraid I'd missed something.

True excalibur could be post plantera with ecto, and make the broken hero sword drop post golem or include it earlier in the crafting line

You did indeed say the same thing earlier. I've got to give credit where credit is due. You definitely had the idea of using Ectoplasm/Spectre Bars to craft the True Excalibur before I did.

 

[Leinfors]

Ectoplasm/Spectre Bars was a resource that could have been really useful here, but putting one of the True Swords at HM Dungeon tier didn't separate it enough from "post-Plantera" BHS drops, IMO.

If I were to do something as dramatic as:
- True Excalibur - Spectre Bars/Ectoplasm
- True Night's Edge - Chlorophyte
- Terra Blade - Post-Golem Mothron drop

. . . I would need to have a serious conversation with Red. I think it would be a viable solution, but it would be a longshot due to the heavy restructuring. If the opportunity arises to have such a discussion, I'll try to take it.

 

[a31337]

Ectoplasm/Spectre Bars was a resource that could have been really useful here, but putting one of the True Swords at HM Dungeon tier didn't separate it enough from "post-Plantera" BHS drops, IMO.

If I were to do something as dramatic as:
- True Excalibur - Spectre Bars/Ectoplasm
- True Night's Edge - Chlorophyte
- Terra Blade - Post-Golem Mothron drop

. . . I would need to have a serious conversation with Red. I think it would be a viable solution, but it would be a longshot due to the heavy restructuring. If the opportunity arises to have such a discussion, I'll try to take it.

Could you also ask him why the Enchanted Swords are so rare in Golden/Titanium crates? My world didn't spawn with one and I had to find a seed to get it for Zenith, I fished for 72 minutes to no avail.

 

[Leinfors]

They are meant to be very rare in crates, as a last chance fallback. However, we are looking into actual shrine spawn rates themselves.

 

[Mental Mouse]

Could you also ask him why the Enchanted Swords are so rare in Golden/Titanium crates? My world didn't spawn with one and I had to find a seed to get it for Zenith, I fished for 72 minutes to no avail.

They're meant to be rare in general, and crates are the backup option. Did you have your fishing power maxed out? Once you've got all the Angler equipment and pick good fishing times, it's still gonna take a while to get that many Golden Crates, but eventually you can get it.

 

[reinaXIX]

I'm not a frequent forum-er, so please take my suggestion with a grain of salt:

I know through peripheral here and there, combining some lategame wings with the final boots (now being Terraspark) is considered too good by some/many. Though is there a middle-ground of using the T.S.B. on wings but weakening some of the abilities of either or both? Or have certain wings have a lower flight-time or max height in exchange for, say, water-walking on Fin Wings, (maybe lava-walking for certain the Fire Wings or ice-mobility on Ice Wings) and/or the ability to run? Would also give different wings more unique aspects aside from just looks and slight flight capabilities.

I'm not advocating making some near-broke, one-slot movement accessory, but one thing I always struggled with over the years was the inability to run without wasting an entire slot on boots in Hardmode. (Especially with this new higher difficulty, ;p)

 

[Maza]

True Excalibur could be post-Plantera, requiring Ectoplasm.

True excalibur could be post plantera with ecto, and make the broken hero sword drop post golem or include it earlier in the crafting line

True Excalibur (crafting)
– Excalibur
– 10 Soul of Light
– 6 Spectre Bar

Haha, it is said that great minds think alike.

I think it would be a viable solution, but it would be a longshot due to the heavy restructuring.

I can see why the restructuring could be problematic, but it's a bit hard to balance the swords so that they are unique and at the same time don't require any new content.

 

[a31337]

They're meant to be rare in general, and crates are the backup option. Did you have your fishing power maxed out? Once you've got all the Angler equipment and pick good fishing times, it's still gonna take a while to get that many Golden Crates, but eventually you can get it.

Yes, I was fishing with the maximum fishing power. There's no way I was going to sit through another hour of just fishing though.

 

[Mental Mouse]

Yes, I was fishing with the maximum fishing power. There's no way I was going to sit through another hour of just fishing though.

Oh, fishing for an hour straight is for the birds. I just keep an eye on the moon and weather, and any time I've got a good slot (Gibbous or better, Overcast or better, getting near 3 AM or 3 PM) I'll run out a Crate Potion or two (with the other potions, of course). I keep my fishing stuff in my Safe for quick changeover.

 

[Mental Mouse]

I'm not a frequent forum-er, so please take my suggestion with a grain of salt:

I know through peripheral here and there, combining some lategame wings with the final boots (now being Terraspark) is considered too good by some/many. Though is there a middle-ground of using the T.S.B. on wings but weakening some of the abilities of either or both? Or have certain wings have a lower flight-time or max height in exchange for, say, water-walking on Fin Wings, (maybe lava-walking for certain the Fire Wings or ice-mobility on Ice Wings) and/or the ability to run? Would also give different wings more unique aspects aside from just looks and slight flight capabilities.

I'm not advocating making some near-broke, one-slot movement accessory, but one thing I always struggled with over the years was the inability to run without wasting an entire slot on boots in Hardmode. (Especially with this new higher difficulty, ;p)

The thing is, sinking two slots into mobility is a significant investment, and when you do that with mid-to-late-game stuff, you really should get a lot of mobility! The Terraspark boots by themselves are pretty darn powerful, but they suit the "master of your world, for now" condition of late pre-Hardmode, and remain useful into Hardmode. Once you do get to Hardmode, there's a temptation to replace them entirely with wings, but then you lose your ground mastery in exchange for flight. Using both at once means one fewer slot for combat accessories, in exchange for not being sharply limited either in the air or on the ground.

 

[Dapling]

The thing is, sinking two slots into mobility is a significant investment, and when you do that with mid-to-late-game stuff, you really should get a lot of mobility! The Terraspark boots by themselves are pretty darn powerful, but they suit the "master of your world, for now" condition of late pre-Hardmode, and remain useful into Hardmode. Once you do get to Hardmode, there's a temptation to replace them entirely with wings, but then you lose your ground mastery in exchange for flight. Using both at once means one fewer slot for combat accessories, in exchange for not being sharply limited either in the air or on the ground.

But the thing is, mobility is so much more freeform in the air with the Shield of Cthulhu and Winged Insignia being options, that the Terraspark Boots get completely outclassed. The only real function that helps you in hardmode is the Hermes Boots effect. You can use a fast mount like the Unicorn for far more effective grounded mobility, without using up an accessory slot.

 

[CrabBar]

But the thing is, mobility is so much more freeform in the air with the Shield of Cthulhu and Winged Insignia being options, that the Terraspark Boots get completely outclassed. The only real function that helps you in hardmode is the Hermes Boots effect. You can use a fast mount like the Unicorn for far more effective grounded mobility, without using up an accessory slot.

It is worth noting that Rocket Boots still affect wings, by giving them bonus flight time. Although that niche is usually fulfilled better by Frog Leg accessories (and Amphibian Boots in particular can be considered quite an "upgrade" compared to even Terraspark).
Overall my personal take was always "Rush to Spectre Boots, find a missing part for Lightning Boots if there is time to spare. Arctic and Terraspark only if they come for free". Would be nice to see last two to get some commonly utilized perks.

 

[Mental Mouse]

If you want to take the tradeoffs of swapping your boots for Frog Legs, or depending on a mount for ground travel, fine. But that's what it is, a tradeoff. Likewise for Amphibian Boots. "You pays your money and you takes your choice". Me, I lurve my Terraspark boots.

But the thing is, mobility is so much more freeform in the air with the Shield of Cthulhu and Winged Insignia being options, that the Terraspark Boots get completely outclassed. The only real function that helps you in hardmode is the Hermes Boots effect. You can use a fast mount like the Unicorn for far more effective grounded mobility, without using up an accessory slot.

(edited) Both of those are Expert Mode items -- I haven't even played Expert Mode yet, let alone Master. And the Soaring Insignia is also a new (1.4) Hardmode item, from a new, tough, boss. I haven't yet reached Hardmode in my new 1.4 game, largely because I've spent the last two weeks working on a big build before starting Hardmode. It may well be that the Insignia in particular changes the calculus, making it more worthwhile to just fly everywhere -- but then, you just fly everywhere, and never mind that you're slow on the ground. (And re-accustom yourself to watching out for lava....)