NPCs & Enemies A boss to to act as a bridge between golem and the lunatic cultist

[J Bame]

Before my reply i'm going to talk about your attitude here.

That's funny. In general, you're a good representation of the kind of people who just listened to the talk about its power without even paying attention to the obvious things.

No.

Genius!

No. And if it did, it just disappointed me socially.

Math can't be wrong, sir. I'm not arguing, I'm not calculating all theoretical situations, limitations and advantages, but that wasn't the main goal right now. I'm just stating facts, a

I say "no" because I see no point in explaining anything and consider it sufficient to simply express disagreement. In fact, it's not even relevant to the argument.

Do you think Daybreak is affected by absolutely no buffs? Holy , you're a genius!

You have several people taking the time to argue and explain their points to you, yet here you are, shooting everyone down with vague and condescending replies because you think beating Legendary a couple of times makes you better than everyone else.

Get off your high horse, realize that no one here cares that you only play FTW, and learn to have a proper discussion.

Still, 6.8 times the base DPS is a serious argument in favor of Daybreak, and it's silly to argue with that.

You had 3 people point out the glaring flaws in this math, addressed none of them, and then continued to pass it off as an obvious fact. You really don't care about what other people have to say.

However, he keeps his eyes open and not so little time,

Not little time, but also not so long that it's just 800 DoT at all times. If I had to average it out id put it at 400

Daybreak is only for single target, if we were talking about crowds, Terra Blade would be compared to Solar Eruption.

At the end of my post I said that in single targets Daybreak is undeniably better, yet the fact Terra Blade can get close to the average DPS on top of being great crowd control is very remarkable

Now for solar eruption, honestly I'd still take Terra Blade. Solar eruption has serious consistency issues, the dps gets gutted at mid to long range and its attack style is a slow swing that covers a narrow angle, unlike terra blade where you just hold M1 and everything in your line of sight gets stunlocked.

Honestly the 1.4.4 Terra blade before the hotfixes could've passed as a Fragment weapon with no issues beyond "below average against Moon Lord"

Actually, going deeper, the fact that it's a debuff also has the advantage of completely ignoring defense.

Defense impacts matter for weapons that rapidly hit for low-ish damage, like Razorpine or Phantasm's ghost arrows

Daybreak has as much as 150 base damage and it gets 27 armor penetration basically for free (sharpening station and ichor flask being very easy to get), defense may as well not exist when using it.

before Daybreak reaches its potential doesn't mean that Daybreak is ineffective, it means that those mobs are just weak.

No, it means that enemies have far less HP than bosses, so Daybreak's high dps just kills them before Daybroken gets any meaningful damage done.

If FTW was so boring, I simply wouldn't play it.

Not "boring", you can enjoy whatever you want. I said "tedious" because it's just a serious case of fake difficulty; like the Terraria equivalent of Kaizo Mario or the average PvZ mod that gives 10000 HP to Football Zombie and removes its would-be-counters; games where the difficulty comes from banging your head against the wall over and over until you win out of sheer persistence, instead of an actually meaningful challenge that forces you to learn new patterns and think outside the box.

If you have fun with this, good for you. But don't act like a certified expert Terraria pro when you have modders out there creating actually meaningful challenges that have far more depth than any FTW change.

 

[Eye Of Cthulhu 🌳]

Before my reply i'm going to talk about your attitude here.







You have several people taking the time to argue and explain their points to you, yet here you are, shooting everyone down with vague and condescending replies because you think beating Legendary a couple of times makes you better than everyone else.

Get off your high horse, realize that no one here cares that you only play FTW, and learn to have a proper discussion.

You had 3 people point out the glaring flaws in this math, addressed none of them, and then continued to pass it off as an obvious fact. You really don't care about what other people have to say.


Not little time, but also not so long that it's just 800 DoT at all times. If I had to average it out id put it at 400

At the end of my post I said that in single targets Daybreak is undeniably better, yet the fact Terra Blade can get close to the average DPS on top of being great crowd control is very remarkable

Now for solar eruption, honestly I'd still take Terra Blade. Solar eruption has serious consistency issues, the dps gets gutted at mid to long range and its attack style is a slow swing that covers a narrow angle, unlike terra blade where you just hold M1 and everything in your line of sight gets stunlocked.

Honestly the 1.4.4 Terra blade before the hotfixes could've passed as a Fragment weapon with no issues beyond "below average against Moon Lord"

Defense impacts matter for weapons that rapidly hit for low-ish damage, like Razorpine or Phantasm's ghost arrows

Daybreak has as much as 150 base damage and it gets 27 armor penetration basically for free (sharpening station and ichor flask being very easy to get), defense may as well not exist when using it.

No, it means that enemies have far less HP than bosses, so Daybreak's high dps just kills them before Daybroken gets any meaningful damage done.


Not "boring", you can enjoy whatever you want. I said "tedious" because it's just a serious case of fake difficulty; like the Terraria equivalent of Kaizo Mario or the average PvZ mod that gives 10000 HP to Football Zombie and removes its would-be-counters; games where the difficulty comes from banging your head against the wall over and over until you win out of sheer persistence, instead of an actually meaningful challenge that forces you to learn new patterns and think outside the box.

If you have fun with this, good for you. But don't act like a certified expert Terraria pro when you have modders out there creating actually meaningful challenges that have far more depth than any FTW change.

Wow
That was harsh
Maybe a little too much

You have my respect for that, you looked over the entire argument and saw the flaws
Somthing i probably couldn't do.

 

[Shаyd]

You have several people taking the time to argue and explain their points to you, yet here you are, shooting everyone down with vague and condescending replies because you think beating Legendary a couple of times makes you better than everyone else.

Get off your high horse, realize that no one here cares that you only play FTW, and learn to have a proper discussion.

I'm not going to agree everywhere, look for workarounds, the softest words with other people just to be polite. If a person speaks nonsense, then he speaks nonsense, if a person speaks the truth, then he speaks the truth.
I'm not saying that I'm a professional who knows everything better than everyone else, but nevertheless, playing on maximum difficulty gives experience, if on classic you can kill a boss with an obviously weak weapon that you found somewhere a long time ago, then on legendary it won't work. If a person passed the game on legendary in any way, then this any way you can pass the game on any other difficulty.

You had 3 people point out the glaring flaws in this math, addressed none of them, and then continued to pass it off as an obvious fact. You really don't care about what other people have to say.

What? Sir, in case you're not aware, the fact that a weapon isn't perfect doesn't make it bad or worse than other weapons.

Defense impacts matter for weapons that rapidly hit for low-ish damage, like Razorpine or Phantasm's ghost arrows

Daybreak has as much as 150 base damage and it gets 27 armor penetration basically for free (sharpening station and ichor flask being very easy to get), defense may as well not exist when using it.

Why prove to me what I myself recognized in the beginning?

At the end of my post I said that in single targets Daybreak is undeniably better, yet the fact Terra Blade can get close to the average DPS on top of being great crowd control is very remarkable

Actually, it's worth noting, the whole argument started over whether Daybreak or Terra Blade is better. I'm not interested in how good the item itself is, and I agree that Terra Blade is a gorgeous weapon for its stage, but it's still worse than Daybreak.

No, it means that enemies have far less HP than bosses, so Daybreak's high dps just kills them before Daybroken gets any meaningful damage done.

I.e., they're just weak.

Not "boring", you can enjoy whatever you want. I said "tedious" because it's just a serious case of fake difficulty; like the Terraria equivalent of Kaizo Mario or the average PvZ mod that gives 10000 HP to Football Zombie and removes its would-be-counters; games where the difficulty comes from banging your head against the wall over and over until you win out of sheer persistence, instead of an actually meaningful challenge that forces you to learn new patterns and think outside the box.

Let's just not talk about it, okay?
I've had enough of this argument, I don't really want to start another one.

 

[Unit Thirteen]

guys how about you guys end the argument and settle it over a terraria pvp match like true men/women/non-binaries?

 

[Shyguymask]

I've heard that Nebula Arcanum actually has more DPS

Only applies when you stack the projectiles for silly burst damage, in a similar vein as chloro arrow stacking. I'm talking about consistent DPS.

Bonuses to attack speed are no better than bonuses to damage or critical hit chance, or rather even worse, since its effectiveness is more affected by defense than both of the other two bonuses listed above. Therefore, achieving "maximum melee speed" makes no sense.
As for melee speed bonuses in general: yes, it's a big argument in favor of Terra Blade, but attack speed bonuses alone can't outweigh all the benefits of Daybreak.

Terra Blade has above average base damage, Sharpening Station and Ichor Flask. It literally does not care about enemy defense whatsoever.

It doesn't matter if Daybreak is better or not regardless, you made an unfair, invalid comparison and harmed your credibility in the process. And now you're arguing that a Melee weapon of all things should be worried about enemy defense.

I haven't forgotten about it, but I don't consider the ability to come up at point-blank range to increase damage an advantage.

Why not? It's a feature and mechanic the Terra Blade has, it is very usable and is blatantly shown to vastly increase its overall damage output. Are you suggesting we should just ignore entire major aspects and mechanics of weapons to conclude they are bad? Should we also ignore Daybreak's 800 DoT for the sake of it too? Or are you suggesting that approaching a boss to massively increase your DPS "too risky" or "not worth it"? That would be a you problem, especially for someone who bragged about their skills at the game for playing on Legendary mode (And as someone that has beaten it multiple times as well, it's more tedious and unfair than actually challenging and demanding genuine skills & creativity for the most parts.)

But... 1.4.3?.. Prior to 1.4.4, melee speed bonuses had no effect on how often Terra Blade projectiles fired.

There is a reason 1.4.3 Terra Blade was also nicknamed "Terra Fetid".

I don't really have anything else to say at this point.

 

[J Bame]

What? Sir, in case you're not aware, the fact that a weapon isn't perfect doesn't make it bad or worse than other weapons.

I'll have to explain it to you for the fourth time, then.

You are including 800 Damage over time in the base DPS. This is very misleading for 2 reasons:

• As stated several times Daybroken will rarely be maxed out on tier
• Even if it IS, somehow, it does not scale with damage bonuses, so its not actually base dps. There is a huge difference between 1125 base dps with an 800 DoT debuff and 1925 dps. In the former the weapon has a strong debuff. In the latter case the weapon is almost twice as strong.

And second, on enemies it is very unrealistic to actually get Daybreaks to blow up, so you wont have more than 500 dps with minor contribution from daybroken.

And third, you are completely ignoring terra blade's Melee speed scaling and true melee hitbox, all of which add a ton to its effective total.

So? Stop saying Daybreak is 6.8 times stronger than terra blade. That is simply never going to be true.

I.e., they're just weak.

In this game its actually very common for enemies to die in few seconds. Enemies dont have more than hundreds of health, and weapons from hardmode onwards have hundreds of base DPS.
This is true in the pillars. And also why Daybreaks high dps means it will never stack daybroken on normal enemies.

Why prove to me what I myself recognized in the beginning?

You barely elaborated on it meaning implying that enemy defense would actually matter in some way with Daybreak. I will shut that down rightfully.

if on classic you can kill a boss with an obviously weak weapon that you found somewhere a long time ago, then on legendary it won't work. If a person passed the game on legendary in any way, then this any way you can pass the game on any other difficulty.

Classic may be a joke but expert is not. People actually need to try to beat expert mode. Since master and legendary are just expert mode with inflated stats, whatever worked on expert will work on those too. Just bang your head against the wall a couple of extra times.

Legendary boss changes are subtle and mobbing is increased to Kaizo difficulty. Its a terrible way to build experience. What gives experience is testing loads of different weapons in many different scenarios, beating actually difficult bosses, knowing how the game works internally... basically, learning the game instead of dying 1000 times trying to do basic mobbing.

Telling people to believe you because you play on Legendary, or treating something you disagree with as "nonsense" while barely elaborating will hurt your credibility more than anything else.

 

[Unit Thirteen]

Telling people to believe you because you play on Legendary, or treating something you disagree with as "nonsense" while barely elaborating will hurt your credibility more than anything else.

I agree. I can beat legendary without much struggle yet I don't have a massive ego. (i don't play it often tho, as i prefer to play journey mode as its quite calm so please correct me if that's why) Everyone has the right to speak about their concerns, and everyone should respect that!

 

[Shyguymask]

Since master and legendary are just expert mode with inflated stats, whatever worked on expert will work on those too. Just bang your head against the wall a couple of extra times.

To be fair this won't really work against Legendary Wall of Flesh, where either cheesing or warding molten armor + night's edge is required for realistically beating the wall. Using standards strategies and weapons like Demon Scythe will just get you devoured by the super imps whether through the projectiles or the practically-telefragging. I even tried to look up guides and other footage on Youtube and every single player either cheeses it and/or facetanks upclose.

 

[Big Sammich]

To be fair this won't really work against Legendary Wall of Flesh, where either cheesing or warding molten armor + night's edge is required for realistically beating the wall. Using standards strategies and weapons like Demon Scythe will just get you devoured by the super imps whether through the projectiles or the practically-telefragging. I even tried to look up guides and other footage on Youtube and every single player either cheeses it and/or facetanks upclose.

Define "cheesing" in this scenario. I beat WoF as a pure mage in my first Legendary playthrough, but it required many, many Imp banners. Do those count as cheesing?

 

[Shyguymask]

Define "cheesing" in this scenario. I beat WoF as a pure mage in my first Legendary playthrough, but it required many, many Imp banners. Do those count as cheesing?

Yes, because the "strategy" is to make the Fire imps as close to non-existent as possible rather than actually engaging and playing around that aspect of the fight like intended (not that the intended way isn't unfair crap as I described). Even if you don't think it's cheesing by definition, it's still a ridiculous "solution" that requires ludicrous grinding.

 

[Impostor]

I definitely like this since I feel like Plantera to Cultist is a straight line. Head straight to the temple after Plantera, kill golem, and kill the cultist before any HM dungeon gear is really found. I also love the concept of post mech-crimson and corruption bosses so I have full support to this.

 

[MechaDasÜberGoober]

Ah!
We should get a desert biome themed boss!
We don't have any of those, so that'd be a really neat addition!

 

[Orchamut]

Space boss
Adapt to fighting in low gravity

 

[TechionPrime41 🌳]

Terra blade is good against moon lord
Ive used it (and won) in almost any playthrough
And dont hit me with the Daybreak nonsense, that thing we call a weapon is terrible.
Solar eruption is Decent against ML

Is it the attack range?

 

[Impostor]

Space boss
Adapt to fighting in low gravity

Gigawyvern?

 

[Shаyd]

Terra Blade has above average base damage, Sharpening Station and Ichor Flask. It literally does not care about enemy defense whatsoever.

Holy , speed bonuses are better than damage/critical strike chance bonuses? YES OR NO?

It doesn't matter if Daybreak is better or not regardless, you made an unfair, invalid comparison and harmed your credibility in the process. And now you're arguing that a Melee weapon of all things should be worried about enemy defense.

What the hell? "Doesn't matter if Daybreak is better or not"? That's what this whole argument is about.

Why not? It's a feature and mechanic the Terra Blade has, it is very usable and is blatantly shown to vastly increase its overall damage output. Are you suggesting we should just ignore entire major aspects and mechanics of weapons to conclude they are bad? Should we also ignore Daybreak's 800 DoT for the sake of it too? Or are you suggesting that approaching a boss to massively increase your DPS "too risky" or "not worth it"? That would be a you problem, especially for someone who bragged about their skills at the game for playing on Legendary mode (And as someone that has beaten it multiple times as well, it's more tedious and unfair than actually challenging and demanding genuine skills & creativity for the most parts.)

Yes, it's exactly more risky. If you approach the boss at point-blank range, you'll take more damage, if you take more damage, you'll die. And the higher the difficulty, the truer this rule is.
Besides, there are much better weapons for close range.

I'll have to explain it to you for the fourth time, then.
You are including 800 Damage over time in the base DPS. This is very misleading for 2 reasons:

• As stated several times Daybroken will rarely be maxed out on tier
• Even if it IS, somehow, it does not scale with damage bonuses, so its not actually base dps. There is a huge difference between 1125 base dps with an 800 DoT debuff and 1925 dps. In the former the weapon has a strong debuff. In the latter case the weapon is almost twice as strong.

And second, on enemies it is very unrealistic to actually get Daybreaks to blow up, so you wont have more than 500 dps with minor contribution from daybroken.

And third, you are completely ignoring terra blade's Melee speed scaling and true melee hitbox, all of which add a ton to its effective total.

So? Stop saying Daybreak is 6.8 times stronger than terra blade. That is simply never going to be true.

...
Just reread the posts again ....

In this game its actually very common for enemies to die in few seconds. Enemies dont have more than hundreds of health, and weapons from hardmode onwards have hundreds of base DPS.
This is true in the pillars. And also why Daybreaks high dps means it will never stack daybroken on normal enemies.

I.e., they're just weak. It doesn't matter much what weapon you use to kill enemies (as long as it is particularly effective against crowds, although I wouldn't say that Pillars enemies are particularly dense crowds), because a good enough weapon kills them in literally 1 second. Yes, you can argue that tower enemies are quite dangerous, but it's not about the difficulty of killing them individually, it's about their number, and while you're attacking one enemy, another enemy flies at you from behind at great speed, and the third one reflects your own projectiles back at you. While there are no weapons that literally kill enemies faster than they spawn, it doesn't really matter what weapon you use to kill them.

Classic may be a joke but expert is not. People actually need to try to beat expert mode. Since master and legendary are just expert mode with inflated stats, whatever worked on expert will work on those too. Just bang your head against the wall a couple of extra times.

Legendary boss changes are subtle and mobbing is increased to Kaizo difficulty. Its a terrible way to build experience. What gives experience is testing loads of different weapons in many different scenarios, beating actually difficult bosses, knowing how the game works internally... basically, learning the game instead of dying 1000 times trying to do basic mobbing.

Telling people to believe you because you play on Legendary, or treating something you disagree with as "nonsense" while barely elaborating will hurt your credibility more than anything else.

That doesn't answer anything.

 

[Eye Of Cthulhu 🌳]

Holy , speed bonuses are better than damage/critical strike chance bonuses? YES OR NO?

For most weapons? No.
For Terra blade? Yes

What the hell? "Doesn't matter if Daybreak is better or not"? That's what this whole argument is about.

He wasn't arguing that the daybreak was better, he was calling you out on something you did. Stop playing it off like he wasn't

Yes, it's exactly more risky. If you approach the boss at point-blank range, you'll take more damage, if you take more damage, you'll die. And the higher the difficulty, the truer this rule is.
Besides, there are much better weapons for close range.

What better weapons? Flower pow? Horseman's blade? Influx waver? Unless you can nane a weapon i don't know about, i doubt there is a weapon thats better for close range

...
Just reread the posts again ....

You seem to be completely missing his point

I.e., they're just weak. It doesn't matter much what weapon you use to kill enemies (as long as it is particularly effective against crowds, although I wouldn't say that Pillars enemies are particularly dense crowds), because a good enough weapon kills them in literally 1 second. Yes, you can argue that tower enemies are quite dangerous, but it's not about the difficulty of killing them individually, it's about their number, and while you're attacking one enemy, another enemy flies at you from behind at great speed, and the third one reflects your own projectiles back at you. While there are no weapons that literally kill enemies faster than they spawn, it doesn't really matter what weapon you use to kill them.

Yeah, they're weak. So hes explaining that Daybroken will only Ever stack in bosses.

That doesn't answer anything.

He wasn't trying to answer anything, he was calling you out on something you're doing.

 

[Orchamut]

Gigawyvern?

Noooo
Don't bring that up agaaiin

 

[J Bame]

Holy , speed bonuses are better than damage/critical strike chance bonuses? YES OR NO?

...
Just reread the posts again ....

I.e., they're just weak. It doesn't matter much what weapon you use to kill enemies (as long as it is particularly effective against crowds, although I wouldn't say that Pillars enemies are particularly dense crowds), because a good enough weapon kills them in literally 1 second. Yes, you can argue that tower enemies are quite dangerous, but it's not about the difficulty of killing them individually, it's about their number, and while you're attacking one enemy, another enemy flies at you from behind at great speed, and the third one reflects your own projectiles back at you. While there are no weapons that literally kill enemies faster than they spawn, it doesn't really matter what weapon you use to kill them.

Yes, it's exactly more risky. If you approach the boss at point-blank range, you'll take more damage, if you take more damage, you'll die. And the higher the difficulty, the truer this rule is.
Besides, there are much better weapons for close range.

What the hell? "Doesn't matter if Daybreak is better or not"? That's what this whole argument is about.

Back to the condescending vague replies like you were never called for them

Refusing to acknowledge your horribly flawed math after being corrected 4 times

Didnt even try to understand my or his points, the entire reply is a strawman's fallacy

You are a lost cause, im not going to waste my time here anymore. Take this as your win if thats what you really want, but if you keep going like this dont expect anyone to take you seriously in the future.

That doesn't answer anything.

Denial phase hits hard

 

[Shаyd]

For most weapons? No.
For Terra blade? Yes

Now explain why.

He wasn't arguing that the daybreak was better, he was calling you out on something you did. Stop playing it off like he wasn't

What? Man, read the original suggestion, read the post that started the argument.
I don't care if a weapon is good or not, I'm only interested in whether it's better than a CP weapon or not.

What better weapons? Flower pow? Horseman's blade? Influx waver? Unless you can nane a weapon i don't know about, i doubt there is a weapon thats better for close range

Are you serious now?
Sir, there are weapons that are designed for close range, and they are by definition better than weapons designed for long range.
Solar Eruption and Starlight, for example.

He wasn't trying to answer anything, he was calling you out on something you're doing.

Sir, he tried to reply, but instead badmouth legendary mode.

Back to the condescending vague replies like you were never called for them

Refusing to acknowledge your horribly flawed math after being corrected 4 times



Didnt even try to understand my or his points here, instead relying on cheap strawmans

You are a lost cause, im not going to waste my time here anymore. Take this as your win if thats what you really want, but if you keep going like this dont expect anyone to take you seriously in the future.


Denial phase hits hard

Holy , you yourself said Daybreak was better than Terra Blade in the beginning, and yet you trying manage to prove me wrong?

Didnt even try to understand my or his points here, instead going back to cheap strawmans

And you get my ing point of view, please.