Game Mechanics Make it so if you die with summons active they stay active when you respawn

[Dwooly]

I've recently been doing a master mode playthrough as a summoner and one thing has been consistently bugging me. That being, the fact that if I die with summons active and respawn, I have to re-summon them every single time. This is especially annoying during events such as the pumpkin moon and frost moon where you tend to die a lot (at least in the stage of the game I'm at.) This mean every time I die during the event, I have to spend like 6 seconds re-summoning my minions. So please make it so when you die with minions active they stay active when you respawn. It's a simple fix that would make my life (and countless others lives) easier.

 

[Big Sammich]

I really can't say this is a bad suggestion, but it just seems so minor to me. Re-summoning your minions takes at absolute most 10 seconds, during which time you are completely free to run away from enemies. It would be a time save, but a tiny time save.

 

[FroststormFrenzy]

The thing is, the Finch Staff already has a similar mechanic, automatically spawning a finch when you respawn if you have it on you. They could at least apply that to other minions.


Flasks are also buffs that persist after death, showing it's something they're capable of doing

 

[TforToe 💨]

I really can't say this is a bad suggestion, but it just seems so minor to me. Re-summoning your minions takes at absolute most 10 seconds, during which time you are completely free to run away from enemies. It would be a time save, but a tiny time save.

But it is also really annoying when you are tag-teaming with your friends on big bosses like Moon Lord, Duke Fishron, Lunatic, etc. Having it spawn automatically would be great, because you wouldn't have to move around your hotbar items during the moon lord fight.

 

[Stellar Mastodon 267]

Sentries will stay in place when you die (unless one’s active due to a buff), so it should be reasonable that minions can too. Now, maybe there needs to be some kind of buffer so that dupe glitches or other OP things happen, because having your minions like this might be a bit cracked. Maybe a summon item upgrade or a buff or even a certain armor set.

 

[Aceplante]

oHhhH no, you have to spend 10 mana 3-5 times. how annoying and terrible.

Edit: to clarify, I'm saying I view this as a very minor non issue. Then again, I dont play summoner, and dont really remember ever getting spawncamped during events, but perhaps, even if unneeded, it would be a nice quality of life change? Certainly enough people complain about this constantly that it must be worse than I realized.

 

[TechionPrime41 🌳]

The thing is, the Finch Staff already has a similar mechanic, automatically spawning a finch when you respawn if you have it on you. They could at least apply that to other minions.


Flasks are also buffs that persist after death, showing it's something they're capable of doing

They've got a point, Big Sammich.

 

[Seagull of Rage]

oHhhH no, you have to spend 10 mana 3-5 times. how annoying and terrible

Yeah....? Thats the entire point of the suggestion.

 

[CTNC]

oHhhH no, you have to spend 10 mana 3-5 times. how annoying and terrible

First of all, this is needlessly rude.

Secondly, even though it's really easy to dismiss this as a minor time save, it's a bigger deal than it sounds. You have 7+ minions in late game and needing to take the time to resummon minions can be the difference between being able to recover and being stuck in a death loop until the Pumpkin Moon ends. I also really wanted this when fighting the Daytime Empress of Light as a summoner. Taking over 100 tries means I probably spent over 10 minutes summoning minions for rematches. Never underestimate how much the little things can add up or how much small quality of life features can improve a game.

 

[Stellar Mastodon 267]

Maybe there is a right click / second use feature that lets them stay after death (will still vanish upon exiting the world) but will cost extra mana. That could work and would make the need for mana in the summoner class be more prevalent.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

I'll never support this, and I trust the Devs stick to their guns and keep this feature the way it currently is!

Minions are a Buff and Summoners aren't the only Class that can use Minions, that being the case, your Minions "resetting" is part of the Fail State/ punishment for dying, with Invincible Helper Pets [that can't die, mind you]! Finch Staff is a beginner's Starter Minion, which is specifically why it has a different set of rules from other normal Minions, it's meant to be a crutch, not the standard. Minions can also be mixed and matched, and with Loadouts, this mechanic gets even more complex and flexible, unless your previous set-up of pets is somehow "stored", it can be any combination of Minions.

If you need lingering Helper Pets, use Sentries and the new Nimbus and Clinger Wall "Magic Sentries"! The Player Character doesn't need any more buffs.

 

[Seagull of Rage]

Minions are a Buff and Summoners aren't the only Class that can use Minions, that being the case, your Minions "resetting" is part of the Fail State/ punishment for dying, with Invincible Helper Pets [that can't die, mind you]!

No other class has extra punishment for dying, so why should summoner be punished more?

 

[Terraria_is_goat🪓]

Maybe an expert consumable kinda like the demon heart

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

No other class has extra punishment for dying, so why should summoner be punished more?

...because it's an Advanced Class, always has been, always will be [hopefully]. Just because Summoner is going through an obvious identity crisis, doesn't change its original, intended gameplay-style. In addition, if you're using your Sentries [because you keep dying], you pretty much get the persistent defense everyone here is asking for, as if it doesn't already exist. Even better, you can get two [2] of them pre-Hardmode. There's literally no excuse...

 

[Stellar Mastodon 267]

Even better, you can get two [2] of them pre-Hardmode.

Which two may I ask? I know of the Houndius Shootius, but what is the second?

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

Which two may I ask? I know of the Houndius Shootius, but what is the second?

You get the ability to Summon up to two [2] Sentries at once [War Table], with the selection of five [5] Sentry-types, all pre-Hardmode [and possibly even three total (Apprentice's Scarf)].

 

[FroststormFrenzy]

I'll never support this, and I trust the Devs stick to their guns and keep this feature the way it currently is!

Minions are a Buff and Summoners aren't the only Class that can use Minions, that being the case, your Minions "resetting" is part of the Fail State/ punishment for dying, with Invincible Helper Pets [that can't die, mind you]! Finch Staff is a beginner's Starter Minion, which is specifically why it has a different set of rules from other normal Minions, it's meant to be a crutch, not the standard. Minions can also be mixed and matched, and with Loadouts, this mechanic gets even more complex and flexible, unless your previous set-up of pets is somehow "stored", it can be any combination of Minions.

If you need lingering Helper Pets, use Sentries and the new Nimbus and Clinger Wall "Magic Sentries"! The Player Character doesn't need any more buffs.

Flasks are a buff, and Melee isn't the only class that can use flasks; Summoner is also able to use them. However, Flasks still persist after death, and there are no problems there.

They could easily just make dying not reset minions.

 

[CTNC]

...because it's an Advanced Class, always has been, always will be [hopefully].

I don't think this isn't your point, but it sounds like you're saying people should suffer extra punishment for dying they playing a more complex class...

One very important part of game design is, "Don't punish failure, reward success." I'm not saying you shouldn't be punished for dying. Of course you should be punished for dying. I'm saying you shouldn't add insult to injury. That makes games more frustrating than fun.

Just because Summoner is going through an obvious identity crisis, doesn't change its original, intended gameplay-style.

The original play style is based around having Minions. People are asking to keep having minions immediately after death. I don't see how this has anything to do with intended gameplay. (Unless you think needing to resummon your minions after death is part of the intended style. If so, you're just assuming it's part of the intended gameplay-style. Summoning is an obviously major part of Summoner, but why would they intentionaly make death extra punishing as part of intional design?)

In addition, if you're using your Sentries [because you keep dying], you pretty much get the persistent defense everyone here is asking for, as if it doesn't already exist. Even better, you can get two [2] of them pre-Hardmode.

Even with Sentries giving persistent defense, Summoners are worse off than other classes because they respawn with their weapons at full power. Summoners need to take time to resummon their minions instead of respawning with their offences at full power.

Fun fact: There was only one sentry before 1.3 and the two added in 1.3 were post Moon-Lord. There pre-Plantera sentries until the Old One's Army in 1.3.4. Saying to use Sentries seems like it goes against the "original, intended gameplay-style." you said literally a sentence earlier.

There's literally no excuse...

You have an oddly extreme stance against a small quality of life feature. You should probably chill.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

Flasks are a buff, and Melee isn't the only class that can use flasks; Summoner is also able to use them. However, Flasks still persist after death, and there are no problems there.

As I said earlier, Summoner is going through an identity crisis, and I've been pretty vocal about it since version 1.4.2+. Summoner merely adopted aspects of Melee Class [because it made sense] and "Melee" retained certain benefits for a reason, as a rather new Melee Class player myself, I have my suspicions as to why that is, but I can't prove any of it because I'm still new to the Class overall, but I can say to some things just have "carry-over", and if these aspects don't do much harm, there's no real reason to change them.

In addition, Flasks, even in 1.4.4.9, retain a special feature that even Buff Stations don't possess [and vice-versa], so it's safe to assume that this feature was especially designed for Melee Class, with Summoner adopting that feature later on, which the same can be said for Minions overall [which aren't unique to Summoner either]. That doesn't suddenly mean that Flasks and Minions should possess the same unique features, just that 1.4+ entertains the idea of some cross-over.

I don't think this isn't your point, but it sounds like you're saying people should suffer extra punishment for dying they playing a more complex class...

Minions are "Free, invincible, DPS Helper adds, without a timer", they're a passive Buff that can kill things automatically, without any input from the Player... like, at all. In fact, Minions are so potent, that they practically neutralize certain Notorious Enemies during certain portions of the game that are meant to be challenging [i.e. Blades Staff vs. Diabolist/ Pyromancers]. Being able to 'stun-lock' an Enemy immediately after respawning is absurd... just, NO!

One very important part of game design is, "Don't punish failure, reward success." I'm not saying you shouldn't be punished for dying. Of course you should be punished for dying. I'm saying you shouldn't add insult to injury. That makes games more frustrating than fun.

You're simply losing your buffs after death, which is totally consistent with how other Buffs in the game already work, choosing to focus on Minions specifically, because you feel the impact of losing a powerful advantage, more than another, doesn't make it any better or worse than any other buff being lost; at least it's mostly free [at the cost of Mana].

The original play style is based around having Minions. People are asking to keep having minions immediately after death. I don't see how this has anything to do with intended gameplay. (Unless you think needing to resummon your minions after death is part of the intended style. If so, you're just assuming it's part of the intended gameplay-style. Summoning is an obviously major part of Summoner, but why would they intentionaly make death extra punishing as part of intional design?)

You saying it's "extra punishing", doesn't make your conclusion true or false, but if I was to say, it doesn't matter which Class you play as, you'll lose your Minions upon death will actually be true, in which case, no single Class is being singled out, it simply means that you lose your Minions when you die, and that's all it means, you adding extra sauce on it doesn't change that fact. This counts for most other Buffs too, even the update Buff Stations; why should Minions get special treatment, especially being so powerful?

Even with Sentries giving persistent defense, Summoners are worse off than other classes because they respawn with their weapons at full power. Summoners need to take time to resummon their minions instead of respawning with their offences at full power.

"...and that's what makes them unique... ta-dah!"

Now you have a new type of struggle to manage, upon death, you have to regroup, isn't that interesting? That's what it means to play as an architype; strengths and weaknesses.

Fun fact: There was only one sentry before 1.3 and the two added in 1.3 were post Moon-Lord. There pre-Plantera sentries until the Old One's Army in 1.3.4. Saying to use Sentries seems like it goes against the "original, intended gameplay-style." you said literally a sentence earlier.

DD2 conceptually added [and fleshed-out] a newer style of play to Summoner Class, "Tower Defense". Exactly what's your point here?

You have an oddly extreme stance against a small quality of life feature. You should probably chill.

I can only give information, how you receive that information is out of my control. If you suspect that I'm losing sleep over this thread... I mean, okay??

 

[CTNC]

As I said earlier, Summoner is going through an identity crisis, and I've been pretty vocal about it since version 1.4.2+. Summoner merely adopted aspects of Melee Class [because it made sense] and "Melee" retained certain benefits for a reason, as a rather new Melee Class player myself, I have my suspicions as to why that is, but I can't prove any of it because I'm still new to the Class overall, but I can say to some things just have "carry-over", and if these aspects don't do much harm, there's no real reason to change them.

In addition, Flasks, even in 1.4.4.9, retain a special feature that even Buff Stations don't possess [and vice-versa], so it's safe to assume that this feature was especially designed for Melee Class, with Summoner adopting that feature later on, which the same can be said for Minions overall [which aren't unique to Summoner either]. That doesn't suddenly mean that Flasks and Minions should possess the same unique features, just that 1.4+ entertains the idea of some cross-over.

No comment because it's not about if minions should stay after death.

Minions are "Free, invincible, DPS Helper adds, without a timer", they're a passive Buff that can kill things automatically, without any input from the Player... like, at all. In fact, Minions are so potent, that they practically neutralize certain Notorious Enemies during certain portions of the game that are meant to be challenging [i.e. Blades Staff vs. Diabolist/ Pyromancers]. Being able to 'stun-lock' an Enemy immediately after respawning is absurd... just, NO!

For Summoners, invincible helpers is just how their main source of damage works and makes the class what it is and it'd be really nice to not have to resummon them. For other classes, using Minions is very nice bonus damage, but I don't think they're powerful enough to worry too much about automatic resummons. It'd happen to be a nice bonus for non-Summoners. It's even nicer with some Minions that others though. The Blade Staff feels so OP when it stun locks or immeditly jumps to an enemy that keeps teleporting. (So fun, but so not helping my case.) I defintly see where you're coming from, but it's letting one class suffer so other classes don't benefit more from using Minions.

You saying it's "extra punishing", doesn't make your conclusion true or false, but if I was to say, it doesn't matter which Class you play as, you'll lose your Minions upon death will actually be true, in which case, no single Class is being singled out, it simply means that you lose your Minions when you die, and that's all it means, you adding extra sauce on it doesn't change that fact. This counts for most other Buffs too, even the update Buff Stations; why should Minions get special treatment, especially being so powerful?

I see the point of not singling out any class, but the nature of Summoners means not singling them out in this case means they either benefit even more than other classes or suffer even more than other classes depending on if Minions stay after death or not.

Reminding that you don't respawn with the Bewitching Table made me realize you'd have one less than "max" minions if you always uses Bewitching Table... (and you should always use it) That wouldn't be a problem if the Bewitching Table buff was also changed to was changed to automatically summon another minion when right clicked though, but that could be tricky to make work for people that mix minions instead of using just one type at a time. Honestly, that does more to put me against the idea of respawning with minions than anything else. (It feels like a, "How was that the thing that convinced you?!" thing for a minor annoyance to be the thing that could talk me out of this suggestion.)

"...and that's what makes them unique... ta-dah!"

Now you have a new type of struggle to manage, upon death, you have to regroup, isn't that interesting? That's what it means to play as an architype; strengths and weaknesses.

It's way more painful than interesting in the middle of a Solar Eclipse or Pumpkin moon. There's no denying strengths and weaknesses are very important and they help make classes feel different and fun in different ways, but being more vulnerable to being spawn killed over and over is a very unfun a weakness.

I can only give information, how you receive that information is out of my control. If you suspect that I'm losing sleep over this thread... I mean, okay??

You also give a tone with your choice of words.
There's a pretty major diference between how saying No, Hell no!, or HELL ING NO! would be taken and what you've said is more than just no.

I'll never support this, and I trust the Devs stick to their guns and keep this feature the way it currently is!

There's literally no excuse...

just, NO!

I'm not sure how this can be read as anything less than a harsh no. IMO, saying there is literally no excuse for what's being asked for in this thread feels like a pretty intolorant no if you take "literaly" in a litteral way.