1.4.4 Summoner Minion, Whip & Armor In-Depth Tier List

[Shyguymask]

The cells fire extra shots at enemies you are attacking with another weapon. That's what you see here, it's intentional behavior. Besides that, I think it's just Xeno Staff AI.



Ok so its only use is being slightly stronger than an Early Hardmode minion (a busted one, but early hardmode nonetheless) except that it doesn't matter that much because Iframes and worse AI mess it up.

Yeah no this honestly deserves D as well. Availability is another thing against it, Deadly Spheres are relatively uncommon and the time spending farming Solar Eclipses could just be spent AFKing in a desert killing Mummies for the Tiger.

C rank is already a very low rank, Deadly Sphere Staff is bad but at least it functions. It's aerial, knows the concept of going after an enemy and attacking it from what I saw and has solid base damage. Again IT IS very bad, but it's not outright depressing like the Pirate Staff is. In general the description for C-rank fits Sphere perfectly: Overall bad and outclassed, but still USEABLE and not too horribly clunky. It's not something like Platinum Shortsword, Slap Hand or Pearlwood Bow in term of combat abilities.

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A lot more whips are included now. Will add the rest later.

 

[J Bame]

Deadly Sphere Staff is bad but at least it functions. It's aerial, knows the concept of going after an enemy and attacking it from what I saw and has solid base damage. Again IT IS very bad, but it's not outright depressing like the Pirate Staff is.

Pirate Staff is pretty good, or at least decent against normal enemies. Just against cave enemies it performs as well if not better than the Spider Staff, and hell just now playing around with it in a Pirate Invasion I can see it doing better than the Sanguine Staff, though I didn't do any hardcore testing.

Yes, it is 10 times rarer than it has any reason to be and it has no use against bosses but the same can be said about the Slime Staff and that got a B-.

 

[Shyguymask]

Pirate Staff is pretty good, or at least decent against normal enemies. Just against cave enemies it performs as well if not better than the Spider Staff, and hell just now playing around with it in a Pirate Invasion I can see it doing better than the Sanguine Staff, though I didn't do any hardcore testing.

Yes, it is 10 times rarer than it has any reason to be and it has no use against bosses but the same can be said about the Slime Staff and that got a B-.

Again I'm mainly judging Slime Staff in a scenario where you get super lucky and get it at the start of the game. Even Spider Staff keeps enemies in place and can also move on walls. And when it comes to Spider Staff Vs. Pirate Staff, the gap in base damage is closed by Venom, Summon tag and Ichor. I don't see how it performs better than Sanguine Staff against invasions either.

 

[Dreadnautilus5000🌳]

Again I'm mainly judging Slime Staff in a scenario where you get super lucky and get it at the start of the game. Even Spider Staff keeps enemies in place and can also move on walls. And when it comes to Spider Staff Vs. Pirate Staff, the gap in base damage is closed by Venom, Summon tag and Ichor. I don't see how it performs better than Sanguine Staff against invasions either.

Getting Slime Staff at the start of a playthrough is probably one of the most unrealistic things ever. And if you're not super lucky, there's no point in farming for it with a Slime Statue because Flinx Staff exists, which is objectively better in any way I can think of, and takes much less time to obtain.

And wouldn't Ichor and tag damage also affect the Pirate Staff in the same way?

 

[J Bame]

Again I'm mainly judging Slime Staff in a scenario where you get super lucky and get it at the start of the game. Even Spider Staff keeps enemies in place and can also move on walls. And when it comes to Spider Staff Vs. Pirate Staff, the gap in base damage is closed by Venom, Summon tag and Ichor. I don't see how it performs better than Sanguine Staff against invasions either.

First sentence tells me that availability is out of the question here as well.

Pirate Staff doesn't "stay" on enemies like Spiders do, instead it kinda runs laps around them, this means that if there are a lot of enemies clumped up it can deal a lot of damage to all of them. Due to iframes Spider's DPS doesn't increase much after summoning 3, but with this attack style the Pirates don't deal with them as much. About being as good or better than Sanguine Staff, again don't quote me on this but if there are a lot of enemies clumped up I could see Pirate Staff getting more DPS.

Walking on walls doesn't add that much, a lot of enemies at this stage are either walkers or don't stay higher up than Pirates can jump. Venom is just 30 DoT, it's not a lot to be very relevant. I guess spiders get more from summon tags, but having like 50% more base damage is very nice for Firecracker. It's hard to calculate which one of the two is stronger but we could at least say they are similar.

 

[whoneedsnamestbh]

And wouldn't Ichor and tag damage also affect the Pirate Staff in the same way?

Not neccesarily, it boils down to base damage. If spider and pirate theoretically had the exact same base DPS but pirate had the higher base damage, then the flat numbers added by ichor and whip tags would favor spider. This is because, again, they are flat numbers, so they increase spider’s damage per hit by a much greater percentage than pirate’s. This is the same thing that makes whip stacking so much more valuable on Blades than on Sanguine.

 

[Shyguymask]

Getting Slime Staff at the start of a playthrough is probably one of the most unrealistic things ever. And if you're not super lucky, there's no point in farming for it with a Slime Statue because Flinx Staff exists, which is objectively better in any way I can think of, and takes much less time to obtain.

And wouldn't Ichor and tag damage also affect the Pirate Staff in the same way?

As far as I'm aware, Finch Staff's AI is purposely slow & inaccurate, this is unlike Slime Staff's AI.

First sentence tells me that availability is out of the question here as well.

Pirate Staff doesn't "stay" on enemies like Spiders do, instead it kinda runs laps around them, this means that if there are a lot of enemies clumped up it can deal a lot of damage to all of them. Due to iframes Spider's DPS doesn't increase much after summoning 3, but with this attack style the Pirates don't deal with them as much. About being as good or better than Sanguine Staff, again don't quote me on this but if there are a lot of enemies clumped up I could see Pirate Staff getting more DPS.

Walking on walls doesn't add that much, a lot of enemies at this stage are either walkers or don't stay higher up than Pirates can jump. Venom is just 30 DoT, it's not a lot to be very relevant. I guess spiders get more from summon tags, but having like 50% more base damage is very nice for Firecracker. It's hard to calculate which one of the two is stronger but we could at least say they are similar.

If you get more Spiders then they'll be able to target more enemies as well, in general if you run into a clump of enemies then Whip them off without issue. In general if I have to deal with a lot of enemies at once I want at least most of them locked in place.

30 DoT is actually quite a lot for regular enemies.

Walking on walls actually lets spiders reach Hornets and other enemies more easily, another example being enemies on upper platform of your BoC arena when you're at the bottom.

 

[J Bame]

If you get more Spiders then they'll be able to target more enemies as well, in general if you run into a clump of enemies then Whip them off without issue. In general if I have to deal with a lot of enemies at once I want at least most of them locked in place.
30 DoT is actually quite a lot for regular enemies.

Walking on walls actually lets spiders reach Hornets and other enemies more easily, another example being enemies on upper platform of your BoC arena when you're at the bottom.

First bit isn't true in my experience, when I have a lot of minions they almost always attack the same enemy, sometimes some of them will target an extra and that's it.

30 DoT is essentially an extra uninvested spider. That's not that much that it'd create a big gap between the two

If you are in a big open cave then yes walking on walls is very good, but in a more cramped space or just in the surface it's not that big of an advantage.

Even if we agree Spiders > Pirates, what I'm getting at is that it's usable. Treating it like a meme the likes of Pearlwood weapons or Classy Cane just isn't fair, especially if you are not taking its rarity into account. I give it a B- or at least a C, D is too low.

 

[Shyguymask]

First bit isn't true in my experience, when I have a lot of minions they almost always attack the same enemy, sometimes some of them will target an extra and that's it.

30 DoT is essentially an extra uninvested spider. That's not that much that it'd create a big gap between the two

If you are in a big open cave then yes walking on walls is very good, but in a more cramped space or just in the surface it's not that big of an advantage.

Even if we agree Spiders > Pirates, what I'm getting at is that it's usable. Treating it like a meme the likes of Pearlwood weapons or Classy Cane just isn't fair, especially if you are not taking its rarity into account. I give it a B- or at least a C, D is too low.

It varies but generally they are able to target multiple enemies. Keep in mind the Venom can apply to multiple enemies.

In a cramped space the spider's ability to keep enemies in place become especially valuable.

If you can prove that it performs as good or better than Spider & Sanguine when it comes to regular enemies then I'll move it up. Otherwise it has zero uses, being outclassed at everything and not even being remotely functional against mech bosses.

 

[Dreadnautilus5000🌳]

As far as I'm aware, Finch Staff's AI is purposely slow & inaccurate, this is unlike Slime Staff's AI..

I said Flinx Staff, not Finch Staff.

It varies but generally they are able to target multiple enemies. Keep in mind the Venom can apply to multiple enemies.

Show video proof showing Spiders damaging many different enemies at a time, because I've only ever seen them attack 2 enemies at once.

In a cramped space the spider's ability to keep enemies in place become especially valuable.

The Spiders doesn't keep enemies in place, they tend to shove them around a lot. It is nowhere near the Blade Staff's stunlocking at least.

 

[Shyguymask]

I said Flinx Staff, not Finch Staff.

Show video proof showing Spiders damaging many different enemies at a time, because I've only ever seen them attack 2 enemies at once.

The Spiders doesn't keep enemies in place, they tend to shove them around a lot. It is nowhere near the Blade Staff's stunlocking at least.

ah

But Slime Staff is already ranked only B-, which is a pretty low rank. Slime Staff has the small advantage of being able to pierce through multiple enemies instead of bouncing off them, but that's about it.

I'm not in the mood of recording terraria and stuff right now but it took me one minute to get these two screenshots in underground crimson, Spiders attacking three enemies at once (a bit hard to see because of the flame dye, but it's there):

Additionally, you can re-cast the Spider Staff (didn't do that for these screenshots) and not only is it a great way to spawn a spider on top of an enemy to attack it, but it can easily "desync" the spiders for a bit which make them more efficient in open spaces.

It's not nearly as good as Blade Staff at stunlocking, but it still slows enemies down considerably while preventing some from launching projectiles, which is a lot more than what Pirate Staff offers. Speaking of Pirate staff, I tried it for a brief amount of time and it was even worse than I thought. Their performance against flying enemies is downright laughable, and even against grounded enemies they only attack with the sword infrequently, when they feel like it. I think for a moment they would be stuck jumping toward me and doing nothing against the dozen of enemies below & on me while in god mode.

 

[Dreadnautilus5000🌳]

But Slime Staff is already ranked only B-, which is a pretty low rank. Slime Staff has the small advantage of being able to pierce through multiple enemies instead of bouncing off them, but that's about it.

I don’t think that being able to pierce (which isn’t that useful outside of event) can compete with the better AI, better DPS and stunlocking of the Flinx Staff, not to mention its like 100 times rarer.

 

[Shyguymask]

Every Whip is now ranked. Only armor sets (excluding OOA, Flinx Coat and Stardust Armor) are left to take care of.

I don’t think that being able to pierce (which isn’t that useful outside of event) can compete with the better AI, better DPS and stunlocking of the Flinx Staff, not to mention its like 100 times rarer.

I mean, there is a reason why Slime Staff is ranked B- while Flinx Staff is ranked S-, multiple letters higher.

 

[Dreadnautilus5000🌳]

Wait… how come both Blade Staff and Sanguine Staff are at S+ without anything obtainment-related that lowers their rank, but Kaleidoscope gets lowered to S because it comes from a difficult boss (like both Blade and Sanguine)?

 

[Shyguymask]

Wait… how come both Blade Staff and Sanguine Staff are at S+ without anything obtainment-related that lowers their rank, but Kaleidoscope gets lowered to S because it comes from a difficult boss (like both Blade and Sanguine)?

Because Blade and Sanguine are simply easier to obtain. Blade Staff is a 33% drop from a boss that is easy to cheese, Sanguine Staff is a guaranteed drop from a Blood Moon miniboss that is also easy to cheese and it comes down to RNG and planning ahead. Kaleidoscope is actively a challenge to obtain, personally in my last Summoner playthrough it took me around 10 EoL bags to get it.

 

[Nimta]

If you can prove that it performs as good or better than Spider & Sanguine when it comes to regular enemies then I'll move it up. Otherwise it has zero uses, being outclassed at everything and not even being remotely functional against mech bosses.

Wait, isn't the pirate staff good at killing the destroyer if you fight it on solid ground? I seem to recall it being surprisingly effective in this way back in late 1.2 and early 1.3. Not that it would be worth obtaining anyway, but doesn't it at least have this specific case in case you get lucky?

 

[qwerty3.14]

Because Blade and Sanguine are simply easier to obtain. Blade Staff is a 33% drop from a boss that is easy to cheese, Sanguine Staff is a guaranteed drop from a Blood Moon miniboss that is also easy to cheese and it comes down to RNG and planning ahead. Kaleidoscope is actively a challenge to obtain, personally in my last Summoner playthrough it took me around 10 EoL bags to get it.

You can also get rng screwed out of sanguine staff, in my 3 previous playthroughs I didn't get a blood moon until post plantera!

 

[Shyguymask]

Wait, isn't the pirate staff good at killing the destroyer if you fight it on solid ground? I seem to recall it being surprisingly effective in this way back in late 1.2 and early 1.3. Not that it would be worth obtaining anyway, but doesn't it at least have this specific case in case you get lucky?

That's what I thought for a long time until not only Crabbar told me they get stuck in "return mode" all the time, but I tried it myself and they barely even attack with the sword.

 

[Dreadnautilus5000🌳]

Because Blade and Sanguine are simply easier to obtain. Blade Staff is a 33% drop from a boss that is easy to cheese, Sanguine Staff is a guaranteed drop from a Blood Moon miniboss that is also easy to cheese and it comes down to RNG and planning ahead. Kaleidoscope is actively a challenge to obtain, personally in my last Summoner playthrough it took me around 10 EoL bags to get it.

In my most recent playthrough I got it on my second bag, and again from my third bag.

And just because you had that specific luck doesn’t mean that it applies to everyone.

 

[CursedSliver]

Agreed. You should consider theoretical situations (which in this case is 4 bags), not from your own experiences, which would just be biased.