Other A less Wiki Heavy Game

[Heath04🌳]

There is no denying that this is very much a wiki game there is hardly enough information given out at any given time, Guide NPC is the only NPC that can give info and if he dies then new players are locked out of knowing what to do. More NPCs should be able to give info on what they do, just like the guide you can add a little "Info" button on the NPCs.

• Merchant will tell new players how buying/selling works and what to do with coins
• Dryad should take the Guide's lines hinting on bosses but add more descriptors "I've heard reports of a very strange worm in the underground mushroom fields. I wonder if it would be any good as bait?" isn't enough, you can change "strange" into skittish or shy to reference how you can't stand near them, reference that you have to fish in the Ocean. Make sure to add notes on how to resummon a boss in case the player dies
• Angler can explain the fishing mechanic
• Painter can explain painting tools and what they're used for
• Mechanic to explain Wiring
• Wizard can explain Luck
• Guide can still explain how to play and basics of what the player should do

You could revamp the text into a menu so it's easier to navigate through help instead of just clicking a button, you could unlock new messages as you progress through the game, an indicator that a new message has been unlocked could be useful. Info pieces for the other NPCs remarking the Guide's death should be included since he is pretty valued.

Speaking of menus remove the kill requirement to get info out of the Bestiary, you should be able to get the info out of a single kill of the enemy (or if that enemy happened to kill you but I don't think the game tracks that). The Zoologist could have a dialogue option that simply opens your Bestiary, I know you can already open it through your inventory but this is just to help let new players know that it is there. Another pet peeve I have with the Bestiary is that when you're in Expert+ you cannot see the drop chances of items in lootbags, adding that would be nice.

"This game doesn't need you to hold your hand" This is hardly hand holding, the alternative would be:
- They just stay confused and maybe learn it later on
- They look it up online, whether that be here on the forums, in the Terraria Discord, or they search it up on the wiki (potentially risking using the wrong wiki and getting some misinfo)

There is no reason not to have this info in-game all it does is creates less misinformation and helps out newer players so that they potentially play longer and don't get lost not knowing how to progress. Some other small things that could prove useful for newer players are:

- Wings and Hook info in tooltip: I currently play with this resource pack since this option is so incredibly useful, the ability to just know that this other hook is better instead of having to craft it so then you can guess is really annoying especially since the rarity system in this game is completely irrelevant to actual scaling
- Revamp the Guide's crafting menu: I would like to use chat glyphs to pin items in my chat and also the ability to just click on an item that is a material and learn how do I craft that as well, maybe make using text glyphs easier for players and more obvious as a feature.

I think with that it is generally fine, there are more things I can nitpick but these are the ones that I genuinely want added to the game

 

[ppowersteef]

But what if the guide dies and you don't know how to build an NPC house yet?

 

[Heath04🌳]

But what if the guide dies and you don't know how to build an NPC house yet?

Well that's why I suggested indicators so the player knows to read the guide right away, I'm pretty sure one of the first messages it to make a house. There could be some buff to the starting guide tho, similar to the Tax Collector on getfixedboi but not as extreme

 

[Yousef the H]

There is no denying that this is very much a wiki game there is hardly enough information given out at any given time, Guide NPC is the only NPC that can give info and if he dies then new players are locked out of knowing what to do. More NPCs should be able to give info on what they do, just like the guide you can add a little "Info" button on the NPCs.

• Merchant will tell new players how buying/selling works and what to do with coins
• Dryad should take the Guide's lines hinting on bosses but add more descriptors "I've heard reports of a very strange worm in the underground mushroom fields. I wonder if it would be any good as bait?" isn't enough, you can change "strange" into skittish or shy to reference how you can't stand near them, reference that you have to fish in the Ocean. Make sure to add notes on how to resummon a boss in case the player dies
• Angler can explain the fishing mechanic
• Painter can explain painting tools and what they're used for
• Mechanic to explain Wiring
• Wizard can explain Luck
• Guide can still explain how to play and basics of what the player should do

You could revamp the text into a menu so it's easier to navigate through help instead of just clicking a button, you could unlock new messages as you progress through the game, an indicator that a new message has been unlocked could be useful. Speaking of menus remove the kill require to get info out of the Bestiary, the amount of times I just wanted to know a drop chance and I had to kill this monster 50 more times to understand that, just drastically reduce it or have it 1 kill, there is no need for it to take so long to get drop rates at that point you'd just rather use the wiki.

edit: also info pieces for the other NPCs to remark that the Guide is dead and he is important

i liked calamity's approach with the exclamation mark whenever a new item is purchase-able , perhaps a different thing could be used like the guide getting a wave animation, waving at the player whenever new text is available also make the witch doctor explain where and how to craft potions, bottles don't even show that they can be used for crafting, i know the dungeon thing exists but that's pretty darn late and herbs aren't so obvious on what they do

 

[Heath04🌳]

I was going to make a post about the Bestiary but remembered that I do have this suggestion and they both functionally achieve the same thing.

 

[TechionPrime41 🌳]

- They just stay confused and maybe learn it later on
- They look it up online, whether that be here on the forums, in the Terraria Discord, or they search it up on the wiki (potentially risking using the wrong wiki and getting some misinfo)

Another Alternative: Bringing back the Tutorial world... If it's not already removed.

 

[Heath04🌳]

Another Alternative: Bringing back the Tutorial world... If it's not already removed.

I mean you could, but that would also fall under "I don't value it over the other things suggested"

 

[TechionPrime41 🌳]

I mean you could, but that would also fall under "I don't value it over the other things suggested"

Good point.

 

[Fidget]

i liked calamity's approach with the exclamation mark whenever a new item is purchase-able , perhaps a different thing could be used like the guide getting a wave animation, waving at the player whenever new text is available also make the witch doctor explain where and how to craft potions, bottles don't even show that they can be used for crafting, i know the dungeon thing exists but that's pretty darn late and herbs aren't so obvious on what they do

Players will also likely toss any herbs/seeds they find, even I catch myself motioning to bin blinkroot seeds despite me knowing I'm going to need blinkroot for things I make.

I truly realized just how complex Terraria is the other day when I was playing with my friend and said "now I can get Necro armour!" "But... I thought you wanted fossil armour." "Yeah but that required going to the underground desert, finding and mining fossils and using an extractinator to get sturdy fossils from those fossils in order to make fossil armour. Necro armour is just better and easier to get now." And even then, Necro armour requires using items that in every other game would be deemed trash, wholeheartedly.

Overall I think Terraria just relies on players having the instinctual knowledge to explore and mine ores to get stronger gear, before fighting bosses. There's not much that the devs can do to help newer players, nor can experienced players do so without outright spoiling the game or dragging their friend through a game they've got no stakes or say in.

 

[Heath04🌳]

There's not much that the devs can do to help newer players, nor can experienced players do so without outright spoiling the game or dragging their friend through a game they've got no stakes or say in.

I don't think anything that I've said really spoils that much gameplay wise

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

Overall I agree, the NPCs should play a much more significant role in game progression, with both information about the game itself [how to play] and Lore.

My only fear and hesitancy about a Tutorial-like approach, is "progression bias"; one of the luxuries I have over other Players that I've seen, which is pretty obscure and anecdotal is doing multiplayer [5+ times] without spoilers, with new Players. I learned something new and indistinct about the game almost every time [stuff you won't find on YouTube], and the way each person progressed, or considered something progression, was drastically different from the other. There's a certain power in Terraria being a true 'sandbox', where the game is whatever you want the game to be.

 

[Heath04🌳]

My only fear and hesitancy about a Tutorial-like approach, is "progression bias"; one of the luxuries I have over other Players that I've seen, which is pretty obscure and anecdotal is doing multiplayer [5+ times] without spoilers, with new Players. I learned something new and indistinct about the game almost every time [stuff you won't find on YouTube], and the way each person progressed, or considered something progression, was drastically different from the other. There's a certain power in Terraria being a true 'sandbox', where the game is whatever you want the game to be.

Right, at the time of the post was originally made I made that bit about the Angler to explain fishing and while I do still stand by it I stand by it less so. With the fishing reveal in the state of the game I feel like there would be a lot less confusion about how to catch the fish. I do still want like a vague hinting on how to get bait. I really like how Terraria does that currently, it's very vague in its advice not to spoil too much and I appreciate that about a lot of things, however there are definitely some aspects that you could go a little bit into more detail about it to really nudge the player into the right direction. I feel like if the information is vague enough that the player still gets the hint on how to do things and information is more spread out then it'll still keep that progression where you don't learn everything in the first playthrough but you're able to keep playing and keep learning.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

Funnily enough, I was in the middle of making a HUGE Terraria tutorial Map before 1.4 dropped, I had to be working on that thing for over a year, maybe around mid 2019, but ended up scrapping it, because 1.4 basically addressed almost all the issues 1.3.5 had with teaching the Player about pre-Hardmode. I revamped it a bit, to also serve as a psudo-All Items Map, but then scrapped that too after playing Journey Mode.

Truth is, Terraria would certainly benefit from a Tutorial of some kind, but I'm just not sure how to go about it. I did still have some ideas, but I didn't want to start a six [6] month project, only to scrap it again because 1.4.5 covers it better.

My Idea(s):

1. A brief introduction to Weapons and Tools.
2. Teach the Player about Day and Night Cycles.
3. Teach the Player about Enemies, Health, Food and Recovery Items [Hearts/ Candy].
4. A brief introduction to Treasure Hunting, Chests, Containers, etc.
5. Teach the Player about digging, Mining Ore, Blocks that need stronger Tools, and then chopping down Trees.
6. A brief introduction about building a shoebox Home.
7. A brief description about Tough Enemies, Bosses, and getting better Equipment.

Somewhat in this order, with the possibility of Random Maps that might remove one-two Lessons and replace them with another, like Fishing instead of Treasure Hunting or Weather instead of the Day and Night Cycles. Maybe 5-6 random Tutorial Levels [I was planning to use Teleporters myself] to ensure that progression bias was avoided as much as possible. This was gonna be made using Adventure Map techniques, but I'm sure the Devs would have the control to make something a bit more elaborate, possibly even the ability to "reset" the Map and even remove items from the Player's Inventory after it's completed [the hypothetical Tutorial Map].

 

[Yooples]

There is no denying that this is very much a wiki game there is hardly enough information given out at any given time, Guide NPC is the only NPC that can give info and if he dies then new players are locked out of knowing what to do. More NPCs should be able to give info on what they do, just like the guide you can add a little "Info" button on the NPCs.

• Merchant will tell new players how buying/selling works and what to do with coins
• Dryad should take the Guide's lines hinting on bosses but add more descriptors "I've heard reports of a very strange worm in the underground mushroom fields. I wonder if it would be any good as bait?" isn't enough, you can change "strange" into skittish or shy to reference how you can't stand near them, reference that you have to fish in the Ocean. Make sure to add notes on how to resummon a boss in case the player dies
• Angler can explain the fishing mechanic
• Painter can explain painting tools and what they're used for
• Mechanic to explain Wiring
• Wizard can explain Luck
• Guide can still explain how to play and basics of what the player should do

You could revamp the text into a menu so it's easier to navigate through help instead of just clicking a button, you could unlock new messages as you progress through the game, an indicator that a new message has been unlocked could be useful. Info pieces for the other NPCs remarking the Guide's death should be included since he is pretty valued.

Speaking of menus remove the kill require to get info out of the Bestiary, instead the Zoologist should "update" your Bestiary with a dialogue button. After killing an enemy you will now go to your Zoologist and click a dialogue option "Update Bestiary" your Bestiary will then update with all the enemies you've killed/discovered with the drop rates already available not having to kill 50 or so just to see the drop chances (I am also fine with those being significantly reduced). Another pet peeve I have with the Bestiary is that when you're in Expert+ you cannot see the drop chances of items in lootbags, adding that would be nice. I really like this idea since it goes with Zoologist being a pretty good creature expert in Terraria and knowing a lot about the enemies/critters so they can write down all of that for you. You can also include that the Bestiary automatically opens after you click the update dialogue or you can have the Bestiary emit a small glow in the inventory until it is opened.

"This game doesn't need you to hold your hand" This is hardly hand holding, the alternative would be:
- They just stay confused and maybe learn it later on
- They look it up online, whether that be here on the forums, in the Terraria Discord, or they search it up on the wiki (potentially risking using the wrong wiki and getting some misinfo)

There is no reason not to have this info in-game all it does is creates less misinformation and helps out newer players so that they potentially play longer and don't get lost not knowing how to progress. Some other small things that could prove useful for newer players are:

- Wings and Hook info in tooltip: I currently play with this resource pack since this option is so incredibly useful, the ability to just know that this other hook is better instead of having to craft it so then you can guess is really annoying especially since the rarity system in this game is completely irrelevant to actual scaling
- Color coding: this is so small but I feel like it would help out so much, simply when an item mentions their class colors the class name as the same as their pillar color like "Minishark, 6 Ranged Damage" I feel like there can be more tweaks to the tooltips in general you can make so they can pop out more
- Revamp the Guide's crafting menu: I would like to use chat glyphs to pin items in my chat and also the ability to just click on an item that is a material and learn how do I craft that as well

I think with that it is generally fine, there are more things I can nitpick but I don't think/know if it would as much as an impact as everything else.

I think this game is just naturally going to be a wiki heavy game, due to it's abundance in content, and I think part of the fun of the game is figuring stuff out for your own. using the wiki isn't a bad thing either. also, one of my brothers recently did his first playthrough of the game, and was really not confused as to what to do at a single point in the game. He only asked me about something maybe once or twice.

 

[Heath04🌳]

I think this game is just naturally going to be a wiki heavy game, due to it's abundance in content

The point of the suggestion isn't to make it not a wiki game, it is to just lessen that to make the new player experience better.

and I think part of the fun of the game is figuring stuff out for your own.

Due to its abundance in content, there is a million other things you can easily find on your own. These are just simple suggestions to make it easier for a majority of newer players and to add some convenience for veterans.

using the wiki isn't a bad thing either. also, one of my brothers recently did his first playthrough of the game, and was really not confused as to what to do at a single point in the game. He only asked me about something maybe once or twice.

Using a wiki isn't bad, I never said it was, however the official wiki does go down/run slow at times so it would be better to have access to reliable information in-game.

 

[Big Sammich]

Hrmm... I don't personally agree that Terraria is a Wiki-heavy game. You never have to go to the Wiki, and the game never even encourages it. It seems to me that once people know there's a wiki, they're more likely to give up and go look for an answer instead of experimenting and learning on their own, and that's not the game's fault. Terraria was never a game meant to be played quickly. It's an older style of game design, more obtuse and with intentionally less guidance. Whether or not this is a good way to design a game is down to personal preference.

That being said, I don't entirely disagree with this suggestion. I think having more NPC dialogue to explain game mechanics is a good idea, although it should be kept brief, and not everything needs to be explained. The Merchant doesn't need to tell players how to buy or sell items, and the Painter doesn't need to explain how to use paint. There's only so many ways to use an item, and I think it's very reasonable to expect players to figure that stuff out on their own. But having the Angler tell players how to fish or having the Dryad allude to the next boss you can fight is a fine idea. And the idea of NPCs that provide guidance having a little indicator, like maybe , to show that they have something new to tell you, is also a fine idea.

I don't agree with your Bestiary reworks, though. I think the only problem with the Bestiary is that it's easy to miss it completely. Requiring the player to have enough kills to get a banner in order to see the full entry is completely fine. I'd rather the Bestiary stay the way it is, but be made easier to find.

Wing and hook tooltips aren't a bad idea, but it's also very easy for players to just try out a new set of wings or a new hook and see which one is better. It's really not necessary to know immediately, at a glance, if a pair of wings is better than the one you already have, especially now that Shimmer enables de-crafting, meaning you won't even necessarily lose materials by making a set of wings.

 

[Heath04🌳]

Hrmm... I don't personally agree that Terraria is a Wiki-heavy game. You never have to go to the Wiki, and the game never even encourages it. It seems to me that once people know there's a wiki, they're more likely to give up and go look for an answer instead of experimenting and learning on their own, and that's not the game's fault. Terraria was never a game meant to be played quickly. It's an older style of game design, more obtuse and with intentionally less guidance. Whether or not this is a good way to design a game is down to personal preference.

I don't agree with this take entirely, while yes there are many mechanics and such that you can eventually find out yourself over the course of how many playthroughs but how exactly are we getting there? I don't personally know someone who has blindly played a game through multiple playthroughs without looking any bits of it up/discussing parts of it. Even back then for me once beat games like Oblivion or Skyrim I figured I was done with them until later on I learned there were parts I missed. I am not expecting everyone to get everything their first playthrough, even with these changes you're still going to miss things. I just don't wanna keep seeing people not getting through their first playthrough, I mean if you were to remove the wiki from this game and countless other resources and if nobody gave advice about it how likely do you think new players would continue playing their first playthrough? I can imagine a handful would be able to get through and enjoy this game but I can confidently say that more would give up not knowing how to progress.

That being said, I don't entirely disagree with this suggestion. I think having more NPC dialogue to explain game mechanics is a good idea, although it should be kept brief, and not everything needs to be explained. The Merchant doesn't need to tell players how to buy or sell items, and the Painter doesn't need to explain how to use paint. There's only so many ways to use an item, and I think it's very reasonable to expect players to figure that stuff out on their own.

Is it some kinda skill thing to figure out how to use these mechanics on your own? Why shouldn't there be some brief dialogue introducing it? You don't even have to create a button like the Guide this can be boiled down into a sentence. Yes there are many ways to use paints but you're not going over all of that, you're just explaining what individual items do.

I don't agree with your Bestiary reworks, though. I think the only problem with the Bestiary is that it's easy to miss it completely. Requiring the player to have enough kills to get a banner in order to see the full entry is completely fine. I'd rather the Bestiary stay the way it is, but be made easier to find.

I absolutely hate the current Bestiary, multiple times have I found myself wanting to use it then I go check and looks like I don't know anything so I just gotta go to the wiki instead. I could sit and farm the enemy I wanna learn longer but why would I do that? That is so unnecessary. Also if I wanna learn drop rates of the boss I'm fighting however, I'm in Expert+ I would have to resort to the wiki since the Bestiary doesn't tell you that anyway.

Wing and hook tooltips aren't a bad idea, but it's also very easy for players to just try out a new set of wings or a new hook and see which one is better. It's really not necessary to know immediately, at a glance, if a pair of wings is better than the one you already have, especially now that Shimmer enables de-crafting, meaning you won't even necessarily lose materials by making a set of wings.

So if you wanna test out whether this new hook/wings are better you have to measure them out and then if it isn't better then you will go to the Shimmer which how many new players do you expect to find the Shimmer? How would someone know you can just decraft something in the Shimmer? I am not going to ask for the Shimmer to be easier to find that was already shot down by Red, it is supposed to be more of a secret. So if a new player wanted to find out if it's better: they craft it, measure it out, then if it doesn't work then they just have it from now on.

Hrmm... I don't personally agree that Terraria is a Wiki-heavy game. You never have to go to the Wiki, and the game never even encourages it.

I also want to highlight this again, this game does absolutely encourage the wiki giving a hyperlink to it on the main menu.

 

[Yousef the H]

Players will also likely toss any herbs/seeds they find, even I catch myself motioning to bin blinkroot seeds despite me knowing I'm going to need blinkroot for things I make.

I truly realized just how complex Terraria is the other day when I was playing with my friend and said "now I can get Necro armour!" "But... I thought you wanted fossil armour." "Yeah but that required going to the underground desert, finding and mining fossils and using an extractinator to get sturdy fossils from those fossils in order to make fossil armour. Necro armour is just better and easier to get now." And even then, Necro armour requires using items that in every other game would be deemed trash, wholeheartedly.

Overall I think Terraria just relies on players having the instinctual knowledge to explore and mine ores to get stronger gear, before fighting bosses. There's not much that the devs can do to help newer players, nor can experienced players do so without outright spoiling the game or dragging their friend through a game they've got no stakes or say in.

i think the biggest issue with terraria as it is is that its whole is being random and throwing things at you out of nowhere
*not* expecting you to be able to deal with it, but more about making you learn it exists
for example ; eye of cthulhu spawning after you get 200 hp and some npcs
voodoo demons just existing and you might accidently have the doll drop in lava, spawning WoF
finding a random new bulb in the jungle and breaking it having plantera beat yo ahh

the only problems with the game are parts like king slime which you basically would realistically never encounter unless you get slime rain and actually decide to kill 150 slimes or whatever the number was, or have him spawn at the ocean on grass with like almost 0 chance of happening
there's also like, the post plant dungeon, a single text in chat says "screams echo from the dungeon" and i've seen many players miss it and just not know that the dungeon after plantera is upgraded, might be an issue from their side but i would like something else over just a singular frickin text

 

[Big Sammich]

I also want to highlight this again, this game does absolutely encourage the wiki giving a hyperlink to it on the main menu.

I was going to reply to your whole comment, but honestly this is the only part that really matters, because it disproves the basis of my argument. I never realized there was a link to the wiki on the main menu. That's egg on my face, for sure. I still don't want the game to teach you absolutely everything, but that's not really what you're suggesting, either, and it wouldn't be fair to argue as though you were asking for that. I concede defeat on this point.