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Cactus armor is OP, let's fix this.

Bry

Steampunker
if you're rushing jungle it's not out of the way, also good luck getting half the ore for a full set of silver/tungsten in 10 minutes. mostly you get evil-wood for the bow, with a good modifier it can outperform a silver/tungsten bow, which is a huge upgrade with minimal investment. even if rushing jungle is impractical because you're in expert, the bow alone is worth the trip, as it can actually dish out enough damage to kill stuff, especially with frost-burn arrows.
Yeah, that's usually about how much time it takes me. I usually don't even end up needing Spelunker Potions; I find half the :red: I need in Gold Chests.
When was this decision made? I always get Ebon/Shadewood for building purposes.
Or I could just find an Enchanted Boomerang in a Gold Chest. If I don't get it right away, I'm probably getting another useful item instead, like the Cloud in a Bottle or Hermes Boots or the Flare Gun (saves me Wood for building). I never use bows, anyways.
 

Heckraiser

Terrarian
Yeah, that's usually about how much time it takes me. I usually don't even end up needing Spelunker Potions; I find half the :red: I need in Gold Chests.
When was this decision made? I always get Ebon/Shadewood for building purposes.
Or I could just find an Enchanted Boomerang in a Gold Chest. If I don't get it right away, I'm probably getting another useful item instead, like the Cloud in a Bottle or Hermes Boots or the Flare Gun (saves me Wood for building). I never use bows, anyways.
fair point, but gold chests are inconsistent, you'd maybe find about 4 in 10 minutes with a copper pickaxe, and on average 1 of those has silver/tungsten. with that you get 5-14 bars, so getting 32.5 bars is more fesible, but far from consistant, which is my point in saying good luck.
I was speaking in practical terms, and in the context of the discussion, which involves the viability of wooden and cactus armor.
bows are op, as is the ranger class in general. with frostburn arrows even an ebonwood bow does 15 damage a hit, and you can easily boost that by crafting one with a decent modifier. the enchanted boomerang only does 13, and is much slower at range, even when you hit every throw. the boomerang only wins a dps contest if you're at close quarters, which usually puts you in harms way, and isn't even an option with most flying enemies. in a discussion of op early game strategies the enchanted boomerang is pretty irrelevant.
 

Bry

Steampunker
bows are op, as is the ranger class in general. with frostburn arrows even an ebonwood bow does 15 damage a hit, and you can easily boost that by crafting one with a decent modifier. the enchanted boomerang only does 13, and is much slower at range, even when you hit every throw. the boomerang only wins a dps contest if you're at close quarters, which usually puts you in harms way, and isn't even an option with most flying enemies. in a discussion of op early game strategies the enchanted boomerang is pretty irrelevant.
I usually DO use a boomerang like a melee weapon, and it works very well, thank you very much.
I could just make a bow using 7 bars of literally any metal stronger than Copper or Tin to achieve the same (or higher) damage output as Ebon/Shadewood, the bars for which I have almost a 50% chance of finding on the first Gold Chest, according to the wiki. All while ALSO getting other loot, such as potions, explosives, accessories, etc.
 

Heckraiser

Terrarian
I usually DO use a boomerang like a melee weapon, and it works very well, thank you very much.
I could just make a bow using 7 bars of literally any metal stronger than Copper or Tin to achieve the same (or higher) damage output as Ebon/Shadewood, the bars for which I have almost a 50% chance of finding on the first Gold Chest, according to the wiki. All while ALSO getting other loot, such as potions, explosives, accessories, etc.
its more like at least 12 bars of lead/iron, as getting the merchant to move in in the first 10 minutes is pretty difficult, and the gold chest won't have 2 types of bars, so you need 5 iron/lead for an anvil. even then, you're only getting one, whereas with evilwood you can craft enough to get a modifier like deadly, with 17% higher dps, and get the evilwood armor.

but let's suppose you still want the iron/lead bow. Getting iron/lead over silver/tungsten is a 50% chance, out of the existing 50% chance to get any bars at all. multiply this by the .222% chance to get at least 12 out of 5-14 and you end up with roughly a 5.6% chance to get a metal bow out of 1 gold chest's worth of loot, mostly due to needing the anvil. on the wiki page for the iron bow it even tells you getting one of the evilwood bows is faster.

the items are also inconsistant, with 4/8 being relatively useless. the magic mirror is useless until late game when you stop finding so many recall potions, the extractanator is useless until you can mine desert fossils, and the shoe-spikes/enchanted-boomerang quickly become obsolete as soon as you get a hook or a better weapon. even if you like the gold chest items that much you may as well just go to jungle, where you can find jungle shrines, craft spelunker potions, and mine more quickly.
 

Bry

Steampunker
its more like at least 12 bars of lead/iron, as getting the merchant to move in in the first 10 minutes is pretty difficult, and the gold chest won't have 2 types of bars, so you need 5 iron/lead for an anvil. even then, you're only getting one, whereas with evilwood you can craft enough to get a modifier like deadly, with 17% higher dps, and get the evilwood armor.

but let's suppose you still want the iron/lead bow. Getting iron/lead over silver/tungsten is a 50% chance, out of the existing 50% chance to get any bars at all. multiply this by the .222% chance to get at least 12 out of 5-14 and you end up with roughly a 5.6% chance to get a metal bow out of 1 gold chest's worth of loot, mostly due to needing the anvil. on the wiki page for the iron bow it even tells you getting one of the evilwood bows is faster.

the items are also inconsistant, with 4/8 being relatively useless. the magic mirror is useless until late game when you stop finding so many recall potions, the extractanator is useless until you can mine desert fossils, and the shoe-spikes/enchanted-boomerang quickly become obsolete as soon as you get a hook or a better weapon. even if you like the gold chest items that much you may as well just go to jungle, where you can find jungle shrines, craft spelunker potions, and mine more quickly.
Honestly, man, I'd rather just sink my wood into building something more permanent than armor or weapons I'll be replacing within, like 10 minutes or something, especially if I have to hope for RNG to not waste the invested wood. I just like building, and if I'm gonna bank on RNG for stuff, I'm gonna do it in the Caverns, where at least I'll be getting other items along the way to help with both surviving and building.
 

Heckraiser

Terrarian
Honestly, man, I'd rather just sink my wood into building something more permanent than armor or weapons I'll be replacing within, like 10 minutes or something, especially if I have to hope for RNG to not waste the invested wood. I just like building, and if I'm gonna bank on RNG for stuff, I'm gonna do it in the Caverns, where at least I'll be getting other items along the way to help with both surviving and building.
my point was that having the option to easily grind for any modifier at all is a bonus, especially given that it will be at least +12% for any damage bonus, which often amounts to even more of a dps boost given that defense will reduce both by a flat value, the difference between 4 and 5 damage is huge, for example. and it's not a waste given that it's the most practical use for evilwood early on, as evil-wood trees are shorter and more sparatic than the ones in the forest biomes near spawn and must be chopped intermittently while dealing with enemies.

I also feel I should clarify that I'm not attacking your playstyle or anything, you can play however you like. My strategy and my arguments are only relevant in the context of reliably progressing in the game as quickly as possible, where my strategy serves as a vital step in assessing all great loot available in jungle at the point where it's the least redundant. As you said things like accessing meteor armor or getting lucky with golden chests are very helpful, but they're far more rng dependant.
 
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Heckraiser

Terrarian
It takes me about 2 minutes to get the ingredients for a spelunker potion, and then after that I can EASILY get all the silver I need in 10 minutes. You're forgetting that I don't have to deal with walking all the way to the jungle if I actually use the resources available to me.
Edit: I forgot I need moonglow for spelunkers, but you usually get enough from pots anyway that my point still stands.
you'd need to be breaking pots in the underworld to get a spelunking potion. even then getting a potion at all is a 1/45 chance, then getting a spelunking potion is a 1/13 chance. so 0.17% of those pots will drop spelunker potions, a rate just under 1/500.

I assume you're thinking of gold chests at cavern level, which still only have an 11% chance to contain spelunker potions. Normally you'd be better off grabbing moonglows from jungle, but on a freshly generated world they wont have much time to spawn, and will be almost impossible to find on the surface, and even if you somehow manage to find one, it probably wont be at it's second stage and you won't be able to harvest it. blinkroot will suffer from a similar issue.

at this point I really doubt you're speaking from experience, and I think you're seriously overestimating the speed at which you could consistently acquire at least 75 silver bars. you're saying you could get a full suit of silver on a freshly generated world, and still have 4 minutes before the first night.
 

Derpling Ω

Plantera
you'd need to be breaking pots in the underworld to get a spelunking potion. even then getting a potion at all is a 1/45 chance, then getting a spelunking potion is a 1/13 chance. so 0.17% of those pots will drop spelunker potions, a rate just under 1/500.

I assume you're thinking of gold chests at cavern level, which still only have an 11% chance to contain spelunker potions. Normally you'd be better off grabbing moonglows from jungle, but on a freshly generated world they wont have much time to spawn, and will be almost impossible to find on the surface, and even if you somehow manage to find one, it probably wont be at it's second stage and you won't be able to harvest it. blinkroot will suffer from a similar issue.

at this point I really doubt you're speaking from experience, and I think you're seriously overestimating the speed at which you could consistently acquire at least 75 silver bars. you're saying you could get a full suit of silver on a freshly generated world, and still have 4 minutes before the first night.
I don't even craft armor with all of the early ores or woods because I simply don't need them. I haven't died to any of the prehardmode bosses since 2017.
 
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Bry

Steampunker
I don't even craft armor with all of the early ores or woods because I simply don't need them. I haven't died to any of the prehardmode bosses since 2017.
I still can't fight Eye of Cthulhu without armor, yet I can go all the way to the Underworld and survive for a good 5-10 minutes before I get caught by a Demon Scythe that speeded in from off-screen while I'm distracted.
 

Bloonjitsu Master

Official Terrarian
I don't even craft armor with all of the early ores or woods because I simply don't need them. I haven't died to any of the prehardmode bosses since 2017.
I Severely Overestimated The Eye Of Cthulhu In Expert Mode As I Fought Him With Crimson Armor. What I Did Not Overestimate Was How Hard It Was To Hit Him When He Started Permadashing. Saving Wall Of Flesh, I Can't Say I've Died To A Pre-HM Boss In Normal Mode Either. Operative Term: Normal Mode.
 
This is a heated debate on Cactus armor...
I will say when I first started playing Expert Mode after Expert Mode I used Cactus Armor to start with, as time went on though I cared more about how my character would look early game so I usually just went with a Boreal Chestpiece/Leggings.

Lesson learned here: The defensive difference is so minimal its effectively negligible. Just wear any Shackle with a defense reforge on it for early game.

Cactus armor is ugly which makes up for its early-game defensive prowess :red:
 
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Derpling Ω

Plantera
probably because you're not rushing jungle with 100hp and bare minimum offense.
I generally need only mobility for jungle. A grappling hook I've found makes the bee fight fairly easy (my playstyle is a lot more grapple-centric than others, though, so I don't know how practical it is for others to try.)
 
I generally need only mobility for jungle. A grappling hook I've found makes the bee fight fairly easy (my playstyle is a lot more grapple-centric than others, though, so I don't know how practical it is for others to try.)
So what he's saying is... "git gud"

But for real, the only armor I usually make is just Meteor armor, it has great defense and you also get a top-tier pre-hardmode weapon out of the deal as well. All you need are a couple bombs to burst open dem Shadow Orbs or Crimson Hearts to spawn some Meteorite Sites.
 

Heckraiser

Terrarian
I generally need only mobility for jungle. A grappling hook I've found makes the bee fight fairly easy (my playstyle is a lot more grapple-centric than others, though, so I don't know how practical it is for others to try.)
by the time you've spent enough time underground to get a hook of any kind you've kinda missed the point of rushing jungle, as you've already mined quite a lot, you also almost definitely have more than 100hp, unless you straight up ignored heart crystals for some reason. heck one of the most consistent ways to get a hook out the gate involves rushing jungle, with the ivy hook having far more common ingredients than alternatives. at any rate your method is more time consuming, and the time is better spent getting jungle armor and looking for a boomstick, which overshadows pretty much any weapon the queen bee drops, and can also kill the queen bee quite quickly.
 

Derpling Ω

Plantera
by the time you've spent enough time underground to get a hook of any kind you've kinda missed the point of rushing jungle, as you've already mined quite a lot, you also almost definitely have more than 100hp, unless you straight up ignored heart crystals for some reason. heck one of the most consistent ways to get a hook out the gate involves rushing jungle, with the ivy hook having far more common ingredients than alternatives. at any rate your method is more time consuming, and the time is better spent getting jungle armor and looking for a boomstick, which overshadows pretty much any weapon the queen bee drops, and can also kill the queen bee quite quickly.
I generally get a single hook and enough iron for a single iron bar pretty quickly. I don't even have to go into the underground layer sometimes. I'm unsure what you mean by it taking a long time...
 

Heckraiser

Terrarian
I generally get a single hook and enough iron for a single iron bar pretty quickly. I don't even have to go into the underground layer sometimes. I'm unsure what you mean by it taking a long time...
everything that drops the hook does so at a 4% rate or less. I can't remember the last time I got one before getting a hook from gems or the goblin tinkerer. Again I doubt your experience is reliable, you're probably not noticing the time you spend underground, which makes sense as you wouldn't see the day/night cycle. I have a pretty good understanding because I used to play terraria in ten minute intervals as a break from my homework, much less gets done than you'd think, especially while mining.
 

Derpling Ω

Plantera
everything that drops the hook does so at a 4% rate or less. I can't remember the last time I got one before getting a hook from gems or the goblin tinkerer. Again I doubt your experience is reliable, you're probably not noticing the time you spend underground, which makes sense as you wouldn't see the day/night cycle. I have a pretty good understanding because I used to play terraria in ten minute intervals as a break from my homework, much less gets done than you'd think, especially while mining.
Or you just don't work as fast as I do. I look at the irl clock a lot while mining so I know how much time is passing.
 

Heckraiser

Terrarian
Or you just don't work as fast as I do. I look at the irl clock a lot while mining so I know how much time is passing.
even still, its a 4% drop chance. lets say you encounter 5 enemies per minute while mining, lets be generous and say half are skeletons, you'd get 2.5 skeletons per minute. it would take you 10 minutes to encounter the 25 skeletons you'd need to kill on average to find one hook.
 
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