PC Item 3,000!

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Meagoon said:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that most players probably aren't going to get the drop for beating the dungeon guardian. Are you mad that they made a drop for it?

People can also get them from editing items into their games, as people already do. That doesn't take away from the value of the items and neither does the fact that someone may share them. They'll still be rewards for being really good at the game, just like many current drops are rewards for being really patient.

There's no splitting of fan bases. That would be like saying that introducing harder bosses or hard mode as a whole splits the fan base because some people can't beat them. The reward is on par with there being cool/better drops for beating harder bosses in the regular game and it's deserved because they're doing something designed to be very challenging and deserve a reward for their talent. And that reward may encourage others to get even better at the game.

Now, please explain to me how it is that they are punishing you?
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This is spot on. Progressive difficulty in correlation with progressive items and equipment (in terms of stats or 'rarity') is already a fundamental principle of the ENTIRE game. To condemn the idea for a future difficulty increase seems rather conflicted.

Duke Fishron is 'pretty awful as-is' yet he also happens to drop some of the very best, exclusive equipment in the game. He is also completely optional. The Pumpkin Moon and Frost Moon events were added so that even endgame players could enjoy a tough challenge at their discretion... And guess what? These drop some of the very best exclusive items in the game too. Which enemies drop the best loot? Why, the most difficult ones of course. *HARD* mode yields better equipment... The list of examples goes on. If this principle is to be accepted and enjoyed, which it appears to be pretty much universally, then it makes no sense to me to be against expanding it further.
 
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Kazzymodus said:
From the decompiled classes or from someone who has the decompiled classes.
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Nope: I used TExtract (look it up on the forums) to extract the sprites and selected all the sprites with the name Item_<id here>. I selected 2.765 pictures in the end :p[DOUBLEPOST=1413059398][/DOUBLEPOST]
Lt. Chapwisely said:
I was hinting at that.
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But is the Cyber really light-themed? (cool idea though, but for the hallow-item-equivalents.... hmm.. still cool idea
 
TearTheRoofOff said:
This is spot on. Progressive difficulty in correlation with progressive items and equipment (in terms of stats or 'rarity') is already a fundamental principle of the ENTIRE game. To condemn the idea for a future difficulty increase seems rather conflicted.

Duke Fishron is 'pretty awful as-is' yet he also happens to drop some of the very best, exclusive equipment in the game. He is also completely optional. The Pumpkin Moon and Frost Moon events were added so that even endgame players could enjoy a tough challenge at their discretion... And guess what? These drop some of the very best exclusive items in the game too. Which enemies drop the best loot? Why, the most difficult ones of course. *HARD* mode yields better equipment... The list of examples goes on. If this principle is to be accepted and enjoyed, which it appears to be pretty much universally, then it makes no sense to me to be against expanding it further.
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There's a major flaw in this line of thinking. Difficulty settings like Expert Mode are not a continuation of the same progression.

The drops from progressively higher level bosses, areas, and events are rewards for taking the same game further. That is progress. It's all the same character, the same world. You're meant to fight the Eye, then the EoW/BoC, then Skeletron, then the Wall of Flesh, then the mechs, then Plantera, then the golem, then pumpkin moon, then frost moon, then Fishron. I probably forgot some stuff in there, but you get the idea.

How would that work if Expert Mode is meant to be the same progression? Constantly jumping back and forth between normal and expert modes? Beating normal mode and then steamrolling most of expert mode with your endgame gear from normal mode? Or making an all-new character, thus negating all previous progress and no longer being progression?

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The whole purpose of difficulty settings is so people can play the whole game at whatever pace they're most comfortable with. Rewards for taking on higher difficulty levels should be strictly limited to bragging rights rewards, such as trophies or vanity items (or high scores or leaderboard placement, in other games). There are three foreseeable responses from normal-mode players if you restrict functional items to expert mode.
  1. The player is motivated to switch to expert mode and prefers it.
  2. The player switches to expert mode only for the items, but they still prefer normal mode. In this case, it's likely going to decrease their overall enjoyment of the game, or possibly cause a ragequit if the difference between normal and expert modes is large enough.
  3. The player doesn't want to play expert mode, and is annoyed with the game for withholding content from them.
Only a small subset of players go for the harder difficulty levels in a game (examples here and here at the bottom). So we have 75% of players preferring normal or easy difficulty, and 2 out of 3 possible responses to Hard-Only drops being negative... Is annoying 50% of the players a good thing?

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Okay, I think I've rambled on enough. On a side note, does anyone else think we need a better name for "Hardmode"? It makes topics like this kind of annoying to write about, without being confusing.
 
Frain Breeze said:
There's a major flaw in this line of thinking. Difficulty settings like Expert Mode are not a continuation of the same progression.

The drops from progressively higher level bosses, areas, and events are rewards for taking the same game further. That is progress. It's all the same character, the same world. You're meant to fight the Eye, then the EoW/BoC, then Skeletron, then the Wall of Flesh, then the mechs, then Plantera, then the golem, then pumpkin moon, then frost moon, then Fishron. I probably forgot some stuff in there, but you get the idea.

How would that work if Expert Mode is meant to be the same progression? Constantly jumping back and forth between normal and expert modes? Beating normal mode and then steamrolling most of expert mode with your endgame gear from normal mode? Or making an all-new character, thus negating all previous progress and no longer being progression?

---------------------------------------------------------

The whole purpose of difficulty settings is so people can play the whole game at whatever pace they're most comfortable with. Rewards for taking on higher difficulty levels should be strictly limited to bragging rights rewards, such as trophies or vanity items (or high scores or leaderboard placement, in other games). There are three foreseeable responses from normal-mode players if you restrict functional items to expert mode.
  1. The player is motivated to switch to expert mode and prefers it.
  2. The player switches to expert mode only for the items, but they still prefer normal mode. In this case, it's likely going to decrease their overall enjoyment of the game, or possibly cause a ragequit if the difference between normal and expert modes is large enough.
  3. The player doesn't want to play expert mode, and is annoyed with the game for withholding content from them.
Only a small subset of players go for the harder difficulty levels in a game (examples here and here at the bottom). So we have 75% of players preferring normal or easy difficulty, and 2 out of 3 possible responses to Hard-Only drops being negative... Is annoying 50% of the players a good thing?

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Okay, I think I've rambled on enough. On a side note, does anyone else think we need a better name for "Hardmode"? It makes topics like this kind of annoying to write about, without being confusing.
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What content are they withholding though? Items you didn't earn? Oh geez, how dare they? I imagine killing the dungeon guardian is more difficult than most of what we'll see in expert mode, does that count as withholding content too?
 
Meagoon said:
What content are they withholding though? Items you didn't earn? Oh geez, how dare they? I imagine killing the dungeon guardian is more difficult than most of what we'll see in expert mode, does that count as withholding content too?
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With a proper setup *cough Teleporters *cough* Crystal Bullets *cough cough* Dungeon Guardians can be quite easy. That would qualify as an invalid comparison.

Anyways, I'm not entirely opposed to exclusive content, and I would actually find that rather rewarding, and more compelling of a reason to do practice and become more skilled at the game than something that you may as well get in Easymode.
 
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Meagoon said:
What content are they withholding though? Items you didn't earn? Oh geez, how dare they? I imagine killing the dungeon guardian is more difficult than most of what we'll see in expert mode, does that count as withholding content too?
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I don't count the dungeon guardian's drop, as it is a cosmetic item intended for bragging rights. I have no issue with stuff like trophies, non-functional pets, and vanity items being exclusive for the top players.

Better functional items are rewarded for progressing through the game, as I said earlier. Requiring people to "earn" functional items by playing on higher difficulty settings goes against the entire purpose of difficulty settings. When you play a game on easier settings, you don't say "I don't want to earn the best items", you say "I want to play the whole game, but it's too hard for me in higher modes." Giving the player less than the whole game is only going to cause annoyance or frustration. For an extreme example of that, think of any game that gives you a :red:ty ending if you played on Easy. When has the player ever had a positive response to that? Scaled down, it's still going to be a negative response to some degree.
 
Can a 1.3 tester please say if the update is even more amazing/bigger than 1.2? That would be cool :)
 
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