Weapons & Equip Nerfing Vampire Knives.

Bitey Senpai

Bitey Senpai

Terrarian
Yeah, the title says it all. Well, mostly.

See, Vampire Knives are a cool idea. Draining HP for every hit is a very useful trait for a weapon. I'm sure those of you who wear Spectre Robes would agree. However I do have my qualms.
Vampire Knives do reasonable damage... nothing amazing, but far from negligible. Hold-to-fire, fairly fast attack speed... But if you have decent enough armor, and a gold cross... you're nearly invulnerable. In-fact, upon building the Terra Blade, I was disappointed to find that I had a lot less trouble beating everything with the Vampire Knives, simply because they allowed me to keep my health at max as long as I was hitting an enemy with them. I believe that finely tuned builds are and should be very powerful for their purpose, but there should NEVER be a build that fulfills the purpose of immortality.

Now I know some people may want to keep this toy as-is because they like being spoon-fed their victory, but challenge is part of what makes Terraria so amazing.

What I suggest to nerf them may be as simple as making them regenerate a fixed amount of HP for every hit. A lower amount of HP for every hit, as well.
Perhaps they could be changed to throw only one or two knives, or made to consume mana. There's a lot of possible things that could be done that wouldn't render them to be completely useless while bringing them to a more reasonable level of power. The quintessential 'best melee weapon' in the game seems like it should be the Terra Blade. But anyone with Turtle Armor or Beetle Armor is probably going to just stand in-place and throw knives, because they know they can't die.

If you have any better suggestions, I'd be very interested in hearing them.
 
Jetstream said:
Ha, Vampire Knives do not need any more nerfing.
Have you even tried to kill a Pumpking with those? I bet you got bored and used that flail from Fishron. It takes that long.
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It might take time, but you can outlast anything that you're up against. There shouldn't be a possibility for being un-killable. The Flairon is a great weapon, but it doesn't ensure your immortality by using it.
 
please just DONT MAKE IT CONSUME MANA
that would change it to a magic weapon
and would/could break the game

Throwing one or two knifes would still have decent healing
and its a dungeon chest item so i should be at least a GOOD item instead of decent
i regularly hit an enemie with 1 or 2 knifes
and get a decent amout of health rege

You see melee cant be changed
its already broken and the doors are locked
so you cant change it or
contraversy will happen
like
"ermehgad change to mage becuz its got leif stale"
etc
 
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TTStooge the Invincible said:
You do know that Vampire Knives have already been nerfed into oblivion, right?
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http://puu.sh/chPeU/ebacc8a4d9.png

That doesn't seem like they were "nerfed into oblivion". Heck, I might have agreed if they weren't still broken.


Dettbizzle said:
This argument has been posed many, many times in the past. In fact, it's been talked about just as much, if not more, than the Spectre set.

The Vampire Knives have already been reduced to a shadow of their former self. They are not, and have never been, a requirement to beat end game content. If you find that they are simply too powerful or skewed for your tastes, the most helpful advice that I, or anyone else, can give, is to simply put them in a chest and forget about them.
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I am aware they aren't required to beat end-game content. But to be able to beat any hardmode boss short of Fishron by just standing in place and holding the LMB? I don't understand the defensive nature of people in regards to this weapon.
And honestly, I shouldn't have to hide them away.
 
Razor Knight said:
Did you know you can pretty much accomplish the same results Vampire Knives give by dodging?

They should nerf dodging. It's too overpowered.
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Are you really trying to tell me that you're capable of standing still and dealing damage while remaining at max health for the duration of the hardmode boss fight? Like, you can just call in The Destroyer and simply stay put and attack until it's dead? If that's a thing, then I'll agree with your snide comment.

Dettbizzle said:
They've made them as balanced as they can without flat out reducing them to the point of making them entirely useless.
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If the options are "Useless" and "Far under-tiered and overpowered", then I don't see why they should even exist.
 
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This has been a topic with a contentious history. Do not repeat that history here.

If you can't discuss the suggestion in a civil, respectful manner, please leave. Just because you disagree with the suggestion is no reason to escalate this into an argument or ask that it be locked.

Please observe the rules regarding constructive criticism of suggestions here. People who do not will face consequences.

ETA: this is meant to be addressed ALL thread participants, not any particular person.
 
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But... I did, didn't I? Why does this topic have to be so dramatic?

Edit: Oh, wait. I didn't read that properly. That was more for the suggestion than against it.
 
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Bitey Senpai said:
Are you really trying to tell me that you're capable of standing still and dealing damage while remaining at max health for the duration of the hardmode boss fight?
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That's the complete opposite to what I said. You can move around and deal damage with little to no risk of dying if you know the pattern of what you're fighting. Hence, you can achieve the same "immortality" VKs give through other means.

I never bothered using health stealing gear seriously since they make the game too easy for me, but I know there's some people out there who wouldn't be able to beat some bosses and events without it. I'm not egocentric enough to think my level of skill is a good measure for what needs nerfing or removal.
 
Lel really

Base damage is 29
3.75 shots per sec at a rate of 5.625 projectiles per shot on average = ~611.718 DPS at base vs 0 defense.
Heal rate is roughly 7.5% of the damage dealt. 45hp/sec.

But let's take a situation into consideration: Standing still with beetle armor with either full defense or full DPS builds on a frost moon.

Full DPS Build:
Godly Vampire Knives + Beetle Offense + Mech Hand, Avenger Emblem, Warrior Emblem, Destroyer Emblem, Celestial Stone + Lucky reforges + Rage, Wrath, Well-fed, Drunk
This equates to:
65 damage at a rate of 3.75 shots per sec at a rate of 5.625 projectiles per shot on average
61% crit chance
Let's say the armor mitigation is 30 defense [average of frost moon is 31, decided to go with 30 instead]

50 * 3.75 * 5.625 * 1.61 = 1698.046 DPS, assuming all knives hit at point blank range [knives lose 10% remaining damage after .5 seconds, and 10% more every frame after that] versus 30 defense enemies.
Given the 7.5% heal rate, it can heal for a total of 127.35 hp/sec.

That's pretty decent, but now let's calculate the amount of damage you mitigate. With Beetle Offensive + the de/buffs mentioned above, and celestial stone, you would receive 71 defense, or 36 damage mitigation. Without a X necklace, you receive 1.5 hits per sec.

The average damage of the enemies on the frost moon is 95. With Beetle offense, that is reduced to 59 for a total of 88.5 per sec.



Full Defense Build:
Godly Vampire Knives + Beetle Defense + Chlorophyte Helm [Beetle's set buff doesn't do :red: if you're going to be facetanking] + Paladin Shield, Ankh Shield + Cross Necklace + Celestial Stone + Sun/Moon Stone + Warding reforges + Rage, Wrath, Well-fed, Iron Skin
This equates to:
48 damage at a rate of 3.75 shots per sec at a rate of 5.625 projectiles per shot on average
26% crit chance
Let's say the armor mitigation is 30 defense

33 * 3.75 * 5.625 * 1.26 = 877.078 DPS, assuming all knives hit at point blank range
Given the 7.5% heal rate, it can heal for a total of 65.78 hp/sec.

Calculating the damage you receive, the total defense from the items and buffs and modifiers mentioned above is 123 [62 damage mitigation] and 0.75 hits per sec.
Calculating that to the damage equates to 95 - 62 = 33 * 0.75 = 24.75 per sec.

So 128.35hp/sec versus 88.5dmg/sec, sounds like heals win right?
And 67.78 hp/sec versus 24.75dmg/sec sounds like heals win right?

WRONG.

All heals are capped at 36hp/sec. That reduces the comparisons to:
36hp/sec versus 88.5dmg/sec
36hp/sec versus 24.75dmg/sec

But that still makes the latter win against the damage dealt by enemies right? I mean 36hp/sec versus 24.75dmg/sec? Heals definitely still wins!

Mathematically, yes. But given the priority in which damage is applied [First enemy that spawns in the field deals damage before everyone, followed by the second, etc] implies that eventually, the bosses are going to deal damage more often than the weaker mobs, given how they last much longer, and eventually you're going to be killing the smaller mobs in your facetanking rampage.
62 damage mitigation is nothing against the average damage of the frost moon bosses, which deal an average of 120 damage. That's 58 damage * 0.75 = 43.5dmg/sec
And 43dmg/sec is greater than 36hp/sec. So you're not immortal.

You may have extremely high amounts of survivability, but with less than 900 DPS at point blank? Have fun attempting to reach decent waves in Frost Moon!

TL;DR = Invincibility and claims saying that facetanking while remaining at max hp are complete bollocks. That, or you need to update your game to 1.2.3+, because Vamp being OP was fixed aeons ago.
 
Some people who like to slay their enemies quickly, so they can slay their other enemies quicker (like me) need a weapon that makes you invulnerable. Anyway, if you don't have any of your fancy heart statues, it's gonna be pretty hard to heal yourself without using all your greater healing potions. Anyway, people on youtube who do reviews and tutorials need weapons like that not to die during the video.
 
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I bet you can easily defeat the final boss WITH the vampire knives only[DOUBLEPOST=1413687070][/DOUBLEPOST]
Suweeka said:
Lel really

Base damage is 29
3.75 shots per sec at a rate of 5.625 projectiles per shot on average = ~611.718 DPS at base vs 0 defense.
Heal rate is roughly 7.5% of the damage dealt. 45hp/sec.

But let's take a situation into consideration: Standing still with beetle armor with either full defense or full DPS builds on a frost moon.

Full DPS Build:
Godly Vampire Knives + Beetle Offense + Mech Hand, Avenger Emblem, Warrior Emblem, Destroyer Emblem, Celestial Stone + Lucky reforges + Rage, Wrath, Well-fed, Drunk
This equates to:
65 damage at a rate of 3.75 shots per sec at a rate of 5.625 projectiles per shot on average
61% crit chance
Let's say the armor mitigation is 30 defense [average of frost moon is 31, decided to go with 30 instead]

50 * 3.75 * 5.625 * 1.61 = 1698.046 DPS, assuming all knives hit at point blank range [knives lose 10% remaining damage after .5 seconds, and 10% more every frame after that] versus 30 defense enemies.
Given the 7.5% heal rate, it can heal for a total of 127.35 hp/sec.

That's pretty decent, but now let's calculate the amount of damage you mitigate. With Beetle Offensive + the de/buffs mentioned above, and celestial stone, you would receive 71 defense, or 36 damage mitigation. Without a X necklace, you receive 1.5 hits per sec.

The average damage of the enemies on the frost moon is 95. With Beetle offense, that is reduced to 59 for a total of 88.5 per sec.



Full Defense Build:
Godly Vampire Knives + Beetle Defense + Chlorophyte Helm [Beetle's set buff doesn't do :red: if you're going to be facetanking] + Paladin Shield, Ankh Shield + Cross Necklace + Celestial Stone + Sun/Moon Stone + Warding reforges + Rage, Wrath, Well-fed, Iron Skin
This equates to:
48 damage at a rate of 3.75 shots per sec at a rate of 5.625 projectiles per shot on average
26% crit chance
Let's say the armor mitigation is 30 defense

33 * 3.75 * 5.625 * 1.26 = 877.078 DPS, assuming all knives hit at point blank range
Given the 7.5% heal rate, it can heal for a total of 65.78 hp/sec.

Calculating the damage you receive, the total defense from the items and buffs and modifiers mentioned above is 123 [62 damage mitigation] and 0.75 hits per sec.
Calculating that to the damage equates to 95 - 62 = 33 * 0.75 = 24.75 per sec.

So 128.35hp/sec versus 88.5dmg/sec, sounds like heals win right?
And 67.78 hp/sec versus 24.75dmg/sec sounds like heals win right?

WRONG.

All heals are capped at 36hp/sec. That reduces the comparisons to:
36hp/sec versus 88.5dmg/sec
36hp/sec versus 24.75dmg/sec

But that still makes the latter win against the damage dealt by enemies right? I mean 36hp/sec versus 24.75dmg/sec? Heals definitely still wins!

Mathematically, yes. But given the priority in which damage is applied [First enemy that spawns in the field deals damage before everyone, followed by the second, etc] implies that eventually, the bosses are going to deal damage more often than the weaker mobs, given how they last much longer, and eventually you're going to be killing the smaller mobs in your facetanking rampage.
62 damage mitigation is nothing against the average damage of the frost moon bosses, which deal an average of 120 damage. That's 58 damage * 0.75 = 43.5dmg/sec
And 43dmg/sec is greater than 36hp/sec. So you're not immortal.

You may have extremely high amounts of survivability, but with less than 900 DPS at point blank? Have fun attempting to reach decent waves in Frost Moon!

TL;DR = Invincibility and claims saying that facetanking while remaining at max hp are complete bollocks. That, or you need to update your game to 1.2.3+, because Vamp being OP was fixed aeons ago.
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So in other words, it's pretty darn OP
 
Suweeka said:
Did you even read? That post proves that it ISN'T overpowered.
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I might be smart, but your ALBERT EINSTIEN![DOUBLEPOST=1413687455][/DOUBLEPOST]What I meant by
CraftedNightmare05 said:
So in other words, it's pretty darn OP
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Is that it's way too op. But in my way, it DOESNT need any changes. It has it's ups and downs:
Ups: healing, high damage and fast paced speed
Downs: Melee only, chances of missing, doesnt heal much
 
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