Blocks & Decoration New timers and the Deactivator

[Snickerbobble]

I've done some testing with timers for an adventure map and have found them useful.. sometimes. We can only set things off in 1, 3, and 5 second intervals, but what if we want something for 2 seconds? 4 seconds?

The alternate ores could be used for some new timers. So we would have:

Copper: 5 seconds
Tin: 4 seconds
Silver: 3 seconds
Tungsten: 2 seconds
Gold: 1 second
Platinum: Deactivator (might need a new name as it has an active and inactive state, but it sounds cool, so yeah)

Deactivator is marked with a red X or 0. When it is activated, it will instantly send a signal to deactivate anything it is wired to, including anything that may have signaled it to deactivate. If anything it is wired to is already off, they won't activate. I'm no wire expert but I feel this could be useful in adventure maps. It would save more space than statue spawned mob stoppers, though statue spawned mobs would still have their use for delays and activating several things at once. (Any wire experts free to point out why this might be redundant or how it could be better)

These additions probably wouldn't effect the normal player much, but it could help out a lot for those who make fancy wired contraptions and adventure maps for YOU to play!

(Is this the right forum? They're blocks but.. Game Mechanics though... not sure.)

 

[Pumpking]

Support! I'm no mechanic, but I would find this useful!

 

[ppowersteef]

You've my support, though it may be harder to obtain all second timers because not every world has the ores,
However, There are enough other ways to obtain them

 

[Notso]

I can't help but feel like an easier solution would just be to make each tier of timers be craftable be either respective ore

i.e. 1 or 2 seconds Ag or Pt, 3 or 4 seconds Au or W, 5 (or 10?) seconds Cu or Sn

 

[LoveSpreader]

The deactivator sounds nice, but it won't work when two or more timers are linked with the same wire to it. Timers set one another off/on.

It'll probably work better to turn off light sources or some such.

But, let's just ask the engineers directly. @ZeroGravitas, @DicemanX, what do you two think?

 

[DicemanX]

There is currently a number of ways to engineer intervals of 2, 4, 6 seconds etc. You can accomplish this with a timer cascade, but a separate shut-off mechanism has to be used. I can demonstrate this if anyone wants to see it, but it doesn't detract from the original posters suggestion - having the ability to craft timers other than 1,3, and 5 second timers would be a good idea.

 

[Notso]

There is currently a number of ways to engineer intervals of 2, 4, 6 seconds etc. You can accomplish this with a timer cascade, but a separate shut-off mechanism has to be used. I can demonstrate this if anyone wants to see it, but it doesn't detract from the original posters suggestion - having the ability to craft timers other than 1,3, and 5 second timers would be a good idea.

Sounds like a pain. Personally I've always made do with the stock timers as I felt like it'd be quite a schlep to makes even numbered systems, and I'm disappointed to see I was right

 

[DicemanX]

Sounds like a pain. Personally I've always made do with the stock timers as I felt like it'd be quite a schlep to makes even numbered systems, and I'm disappointed to see I was right

Mind you though, it's only a pain if you want to include a shut-off system that can be used to shut-off the timers at any point in the cycle. If you just want to create a cycle without the need to shut it off except when the cycle completes, then a basic timer cascade works well.

 

[Notso]

Mind you though, it's only a pain if you want to include a shut-off system that can be used to shut-off the timers at any point in the cycle. If you just want to create a cycle without the need to shut it off except when the cycle completes, then a basic timer cascade works well.

Yeah but... Then I'd have to dodge my nefarious mob mauling mechanisms myself, which would rather defeat the point, wouldn't it

 

[DicemanX]

Yeah but... Then I'd have to dodge my nefarious mob mauling mechanisms myself, which would rather defeat the point, wouldn't it

I don't know, would it? It rather depends on what you use the mechanism for. In one of my most recent builds I used a 25 second cascade without needing to shut it off during the cycle.

Returning to the original suggestion, I think there's no reason not be be able to craft timers of any duration. The fact that different ores are used for different timers is rather arbitrary already, but perhaps the timer duration can be controlled how much of a particular ore or how much wire is used in the crafting.

 

[Notso]

Returning to the original suggestion, I think there's no reason not be be able to craft timers of any duration. The fact that different ores are used for different timers is rather arbitrary already, but perhaps the timer duration can be controlled how much of a particular ore or how much wire is used in the crafting.

Hmm... How about this - a 0-5 second timer, a 0-10 second timer, and a 0-25 second timer - every time you click them they cycle through time intervals in 1, 2 and 5 second steps respectively?

Or we could just do away with multiple timers entirely, and have a single timer that, when you right-click you just type the interval you want?

 

[LoveSpreader]

There is currently a number of ways to engineer intervals of 2, 4, 6 seconds etc. You can accomplish this with a timer cascade, but a separate shut-off mechanism has to be used. I can demonstrate this if anyone wants to see it, but it doesn't detract from the original posters suggestion - having the ability to craft timers other than 1,3, and 5 second timers would be a good idea.

Eh, I know that more options for timer is always better. I was hoping to read your opinion on the deactivator. Something that instead of switching things between 1 and 0, but always set to 0 instead. Pretty sure when you talk about cascading timer effects to get the preferred time, you use at least 2 wire colors, right?

My question was really, is the deactivator a feasible item in Terraria engineering, especially considering how timer works?

With how wiring works in the game right now is, there are no differences between the pulse of something stepping on a pressure plate, and a timer going off. So with that, wiring a deactivator to a timer, will turn off the timer and everything wired to the deactivator after the pulse is sent. It most certainly can't be used with a trap battery that utilizes timers. That leaves what? Lightings. The only things that have an actual on/off state without an output signal.

 

[DicemanX]

Eh, I know that more options for timer is always better. I was hoping to read your opinion on the deactivator. Something that instead of switching things between 1 and 0, but always set to 0 instead. Pretty sure when you talk about cascading timer effects to get the preferred time, you use at least 2 wire colors, right?

Yes, cascades use at least 2 color wires.

My question was really, is the deactivator a feasible item in Terraria engineering, especially considering how timer works?

Yes, it is feasible. The reset mechanism is a checker for a 1 state. If the 1 state is detected, then it is switched to a 0 state. If the 0 state was there to begin with, then nothing happens. The easiest and most compact reset mechanisms are outlined here:

http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/project-hoiktronics-reset-mechanisms.7773/

Timer cascades can be linear or in a loop. In looped cascades pairs of timers are always on, while in linear cascades one timer is turned on at one end, and then pairs of timers are switched on in linear sequence until the end timer is reached (at which point it will be the only timer that's in the ON state). In either configuration, the reset mechanism is hooked up to either individual timers or pairs of timers to shut them off if they are in the ON state.

EDIT:

If anyone wants to see what the cascade set-up might look like, see the post here:

http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...p-and-down-with-hoiktronics.6361/#post-180365

I use an older reset mechanism, but the idea is the same. I illustrate a shut-off mechanism for a cascade loop.

With how wiring works in the game right now is, there are no differences between the pulse of something stepping on a pressure plate, and a timer going off. So with that, wiring a deactivator to a timer, will turn off the timer and everything wired to the deactivator after the pulse is sent. It most certainly can't be used with a trap battery that utilizes timers. That leaves what? Lightings. The only things that have an actual on/off state without an output signal.

The deactivator of a trap battery works the same way in principle, the only difference is that each timer is always in the ON state so it doesn't require a state checker. In other words, the reset is just the bird passing over the same pressure plates it passed over to activate the timers in the first place.

 

[LoveSpreader]

Oh, I know you don't need to check the states of the timers once they are on, unless they are cascaded with another timer. Regardless, the deactivator won't work as a cut-off for multiple timers, correct? It can be used in the last timer of cascades, but nothing else, it seems to me.

I think feasible wasn't actually the word I was looking for.... maybe, useful? There aren't that many things that have on/off state that doesn't send out a signal apart from lighting, surely? Oh wait, actuators... I suppose if the blocks are in the background, they could be considered as 0(or 1) and the other way around as solid. Since I haven't personally tested hoiks, I guess I can't say much about its usefulness one way or the other.

Still, that leaves two things. I also recall that minecart tracks/ends can be changed with a wire, and considering those have more than two states, a deactivator doesn't seem to be of use there.

Maybe I'm just nitpicking though.

 

[DicemanX]

Oh, I know you don't need to check the states of the timers once they are on, unless they are cascaded with another timer. Regardless, the deactivator won't work as a cut-off for multiple timers, correct? It can be used in the last timer of cascades, but nothing else, it seems to me.

Deactivators can be set-up to turn off any timer(s) in the cascade, not just the timers at the end of the cascade. Check my post above - I edited in a link to show how this can be done.

I think feasible wasn't actually the word I was looking for.... maybe, useful? There aren't that many things that have on/off state that doesn't send out a signal apart from lighting, surely?

Well, the entirety of hoiktronics features ON/OFF states that don't send out signals . In hoiktronics ON/OFF states involve actuation/de-actuation of blocks.

 

[LoveSpreader]

Deactivators can be set-up to turn off any timer(s) in the cascade, not just the timers at the end of the cascade. Check my post above - I edited in a link to show how this can be done.

That does require quite an elaborate setup though. I was hoping to see its use in a more.... lax wiring. Though I suppose that satisfies my question for now.

 

[stormconure]

My only problem here is that if you get gold on a playthrough, you have to use the extractinator to get platinum for the deactivator. Same for the timers. And you know how unreliable the extractinator can be... All im suggesting is a more convenient way to craft them. Maybe lower the metal requirements and add something that appears in all worlds?

Oterwise this is really good. Nice concept.

 

[ZeroGravitas]

But, let's just ask the engineers directly. @ZeroGravitas

It's interesting that you're talking about wiring mechanics, but I'm sorry, I may only rain on this parade:

• As things stand, in game, I have a *lot* of configurations for 'engines' and composite timers (and more to be published), but not enough things to use them on. What do you have in mind to use your 2s and 4s timers on? All traps fire at maximum damage output on 1s timers (flame and dart on 3s, too). I want more devices to use first.
• 'Deactivators' don't sound like they would be compatible with the way the wiring system is currently programmed; there'd need to be a major code overhaul to add in a second type of wiring pulse and make all devices compatible with that. If what you describe is mean to be a device dedicated deactivating a single device, to which it's connected, then this might be more feasible, in which case it would just be an flip-flop mono-stable wired flip-flop.
  
  The bunny reset device I've used in a few places (like under this antlion farm, to consistently reset the hoik block's actuation). You can use other mob statues for this, and they can reset multiple separate devices at once. But statues are a little rare, and clunky to use, so a pre-made device is arguable. But it takes all challenge and a lot of the fun out of it to just have a black box that does the thing for you. Allowing traps to active a pressure plate type device would create the opportunity for a more compact, resource 'cheaper' alternative (using actuated blocks), but I'm also ambivalent about that eventuality...

A related suggestion might be to teak the timer activation mechanics so that a looped cascade chain of (e.g. three 1s) timers is able to activate 3 wires for (dart) traps. As things are, there's a minute anomaly in the activation timings that makes the timers fire instantaneously before the trap's cool-downs conclude. (see this TO thread on the subject.)