Ranger class is outmatched

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MolochMekkane said:
I wasn't there for it, but I would guess before 1.1 existed the Minishark was also endgame?
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It was, yet it was no different from any other ranged gun except for the only factor that it had an increidbly high fire-rate (which you could consider "unique" back then).
 
MolochMekkane said:
I wasn't there for it, but I would guess before 1.1 existed the Minishark was also endgame?
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Last I checked, when the Mech Bosses were the final boss, Megashark was not flashy.
When Skeletron was the 'final boss', Phoenix Blaster and Minishark was not flashy.
When Golem was the 'final boss', Stynger was flashy... holy :red:, 1/4 of Terraria's 'final bosses' had a flashy ranged weapon. Did. Not. Expect.
 
W1K said:
That's not exactly a valid argument, Megashark was also end-game when Red decided Terraria was done with its 1.1 update. It worked in no way differently than Minishark. While not officially, Chaingun has also been an end-game weapon when it was part of the last game's tier.
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Compared to other end-game weapons, Megashark's situation was justified. None of the other weapons were particularly special.
And the Chain Gun was unique at the time, even if not that unique. It was different enough from the Megashark. Plus there was no bullet weapon in the game that had a very interesting effect.

But then the Vortex Beater came along. We saw what guns could be, and the SDMG being rather tame compared to the Vortex Beater is, at least to me, a step backwards. A missed oppurtunity.
 
W1K said:
It was, yet it was no different from any other ranged gun except for the only factor that it had an increidbly high fire-rate (which you could consider "unique" back then).
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So there's now a consistent succession of 'autofiring guns, all but one related to ocean life, that has a chance to not use ammo, and were once endgame' and the SDMG is just the logical conclusion of such a line of weapons?
 
MolochMekkane said:
So there's now a consistent succession of 'autofiring guns, all but one related to ocean life, that has a chance to not use ammo, and were once endgame' and the SDMG is just the logical conclusion of such a line of weapons?
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Yup. Basically at this point it's a matter of false expectations.


In fact, I could argue that I've expected the exact thing to happen with the following support:

1. The S.D.M.G., before 1.3, was considered to drop from the final boss. During that time, the S.D.M.G. did not have any flashy effect. As such, expectations should have been the same [however, people would have expected its stats to improve due to being overpowered by the moon events and fishron's drops. This is valid as the argument is objective: The moon drops were better than the gun.]
2. The S.D.M.G. is considered to be part of the pattern of accurate machineguns: Minishark and Megashark
2-1. The S.D.M.G., along with the Minishark and Megashark, do not have any flashy special effects, and as such should be expected to work the same way to keep the pattern.
3. The S.D.M.G. works like an endgame weapon would - it's heavily effective when used on the rest of the game.
4. The S.D.M.G. works much like a majority of the ranged weapons - its mechanics are to straight up aim, shoot, and kill. Variations to ranged weapons are determined by the weapon type [bow, pistol, xbow, shotgun, machinegun, rocket] and bullet type [ichor, crystal, luminite, etc], while a few others were completely unique [Stynger, Nail Gun, etc]
 
Battle Bee said:
Compared to other end-game weapons, Megashark's situation was justified. None of the other weapons were particularly special.
And the Chain Gun was unique at the time, even if not that unique. It was different enough from the Megashark. Plus there was no bullet weapon in the game that had a very interesting effect.

But then the Vortex Beater came along. We saw what guns could be, and the SDMG being rather tame compared to the Vortex Beater is, at least to me, a step backwards. A missed oppurtunity.
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Guy, let it go. This is not the forum for this kind of arguing.

... that's for the SUGGESTIONS forum. *hint hint*
 
Suweeka said:
Last I checked, when the Mech Bosses were the final boss, Megashark was not flashy.
When Skeletron was the 'final boss', Phoenix Blaster and Minishark was not flashy.
When Golem was the 'final boss', Stynger was flashy... holy :red:, 1/4 of Terraria's 'final bosses' had a flashy ranged weapon. Did. Not. Expect.
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...I don't see what point you're trying to make here.

As for the Phoenix Blaster, Minishark and Megashark being the end-game weapons of an era long past... so what? Why shouldn't we move on?
That's like saying we should be stuck with the NES graphics forever because that's the best we've had back in the day.
Why are you against a more fun-to-use weapon? A more unique weapon? That's what I want to know.
DJFlare84 said:
Guy, let it go. This is not the forum for this kind of arguing.

... that's for the SUGGESTIONS forum. *hint hint*
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I already made a thread about it.
Didn't get much attention, though.
 
Suweeka said:
Last I checked, when the Mech Bosses were the final boss, Megashark was not flashy.
When Skeletron was the 'final boss', Phoenix Blaster and Minishark was not flashy.
When Golem was the 'final boss', Stynger was flashy... holy :red:, 1/4 of Terraria's 'final bosses' had a flashy ranged weapon. Did. Not. Expect.
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Whoa there I'm not the one saying there needs to be flashiness!
Suweeka said:
Yup. Basically at this point it's a matter of false expectations.


In fact, I could argue that I've expected the exact thing to happen with the following support:

1. The S.D.M.G., before 1.3, was considered to drop from the final boss. During that time, the S.D.M.G. did not have any flashy effect. As such, expectations should have been the same [however, people would have expected its stats to improve due to being overpowered by the moon events and fishron's drops. This is valid as the argument is objective: The moon drops were better than the gun.]
2. The S.D.M.G. is considered to be part of the pattern of accurate machineguns: Minishark and Megashark
2-1. The S.D.M.G., along with the Minishark and Megashark, do not have any flashy special effects, and as such should be expected to work the same way to keep the pattern.
3. The S.D.M.G. works like an endgame weapon would - it's heavily effective when used on the rest of the game.
4. The S.D.M.G. works much like a majority of the ranged weapons - its mechanics are to straight up aim, shoot, and kill. Variations to ranged weapons are determined by the weapon type [bow, pistol, xbow, shotgun, machinegun, rocket] and bullet type [ichor, crystal, luminite, etc], while a few others were completely unique [Stynger, Nail Gun, etc]
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I remember that, at that point it only did 50 DMG (through hax) and seemed like it'd be immediately after the Chaingun, right? It must have been changed when they realized they'd have to up its game to make it... well, endgame.
 
Battle Bee said:
...I don't see what point you're trying to make here.

As for the Phoenix Blaster, Minishark and Megashark being the end-game weapons of an era long past... so what? Why shouldn't we move on?
That's like saying we should be stuck with the NES graphics forever because that's the best we've had back in the day.
Why are you against a more fun-to-use weapon? A more unique weapon? That's what I want to know.
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I'm not arguing against it. I'm arguing that it's justified and that people should not be whining about it.

MolochMekkane said:
Whoa there I'm not the one saying there needs to be flashiness!
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I know, but I figured your question was a good way to show a certain pattern going on with the final bosses.

MolochMekkane said:
I remember that, at that point it only did 50 DMG (through hax) and seemed like it'd be immediately after the Chaingun, right? It must have been changed when they realized they'd have to up its game to make it... well, endgame.
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afaik it had around 30ish? And afaik it also had 6 useTime rather than its current 5. I can't accurately remember the details since I didn't exactly play with it actively, knowing it'll be buffed.
 
It did have only 6 useTime and 35 damage. It was effectively inferior to Chaingun in terms of close-range DPS.
 
Suweeka said:
I know, but I figured your question was a good way to show a certain pattern going on with the final bosses.
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Oh, for a second I thought I did something to incur the Wrath of Oni. I've seen you DESTROY stupid arguments and am not particularly eager to go through that myself.

Suweeka said:
afaik it had around 30ish? And afaik it also had 6 useTime rather than its current 5. I can't accurately remember the details since I didn't exactly play with it actively, knowing it'll be buffed.
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Whatever it was (35 apparently), doesn't really matter now. It was nothing but a better Megashark. And now it's a SUPER BETTER MEGASHARK. WHOOAAA.

Anyway, as far as I care the only 'specialty' the SDMG needs is being a Master of All. A Jack of All Trades all grown up, having so many advantages and much versatility... and no weaknesses or drawbacks.
 
MolochMekkane said:
Anyway, as far as I care the only 'specialty' the SDMG needs is being a Master of All. A Jack of All Trades all grown up, having so many advantages and much versatility... and no weaknesses or drawbacks.
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I did specifically say that it's not about the weapon being good and more about the weapon being fun to use, but eh, we'll agree to disagree.
It's not like this debate is getting us anywhere.
 
Battle Bee said:
I did specifically say that it's not about the weapon being good and more about the weapon being fun to use, but eh, we'll agree to disagree.
It's not like this debate is getting us anywhere.
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Like I said, I prefer a Rapid Chaingun still. If they added a faster, even less accurate upgrade, I'd go nuts for it. It just doesn't feel like the SDMG needs anything else.
 
Even then, fun is greatly subjective. Some people prefer the absurd dps, some prefer fancy mechanics even case scenario they make said weapon's dps inconsistent.
 
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