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Rework of Frost armor + hybrid sets + debuffs

For Frostburn...

  • Frostburn should reduce enemy contact damage only when wearing Frost armor.

    Votes: 3 75.0%
  • Frostburn should reduce enemy contact damage at all times.

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • Frostburn should instead have its effect switched with one of the other debuffs.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Frostburn should continue doing 8 damage per second with no other effect.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    4

Baconfry

Terrarian
Summoning hybrid sets are the only hybrid sets that really work, in the sense that hybrid sets that try to combine melee/ranged/magic will always be suboptimal because you can only use one melee/ranged/magic weapon at a time. This is the only multitopic suggestion I've made IIRC, because for it to be complete, I have to talk about new enemies, new armors, new debuff mechanics, and new consumable items. But the main theme is changing the pre-mech hybrid sets from melee/ranged and magic/summoner into melee/summoner, ranged/summoner, and magic/summoner.

Changes to Frost armor

Frost Helmet: +10% melee and minion damage
Frost Breastplate: +11% melee crit, +1 minion capacity
Frost Leggings: +8% movement speed, +7% melee speed (no change)
Set bonus: +1 minion capacity, melee attacks cause icicles to fall, dealing damage and inflicting Frostburn

New icicle projectile mechanic is there so the set doesn't depend entirely on Frostburn to be useful.
As a melee set, it synergizes well with the new Frostburn mechanics below.

Changes to debuffs

Poisoned: increases by 1 damage for every tick of damage, capping at 25.
Venom: similar to Poisoned, but caps at 50 and ticks twice as fast.
Cursed Inferno: damage per tick = 50% base damage of attack that inflicted it, or 5% if inflicted on player.
Frostburn: reduces contact damage by 40%.
Shadowflame: damage per tick = enemy defense stat, or 1 if defense stat is 0.

Gauze Pad: cures debuffs that can be cured by Nurse.
5 gel + 1 silk = 5 Gauze Pad

It is necessary to introduce counterplay to the increased potency of debuffs, as being poisoned would now surely be fatal for a player even at full health.

Quick Heal (H) will cure debuffs and consume a Gauze Pad at a higher priority than healing potions, if curable debuffs are present.
What about Moon Bite? "Moon Bite" is removed, and Moon Lord parts receive lifesteal immunity through variable "canGhostHeal", which is currently disabled for only a handful of enemies including Martian Probe.

Sacred armor (ranged + summoner hybrid set)

Sacred Headdress: +10% arrow and dart damage, 9 def
Sacred Tunic: +11% ranged crit, +1 minion capacity, 10 def
Sacred Robeskirt: +15% minion damage, +10% movement speed, 7 def
Set bonus: +1 minion capacity, +20% ranged damage against debuffed enemies

This set is meant to synergize with the spider/queen spider's ability to inflict venom.

During windy weather, Quetzalcoatl (miniboss) will spawn in the surface Jungle. Drops Sacred Moss, Jungle equivalent to Frost Core/Forbidden Fragment that is used to craft Sacred armor.

Reworked crafting recipes

Instead of Adamantite/Titanium bars, Frost/Forbidden/Sacred armor will be crafted with Vibranium (placeholder name), an ore that spreads like Chlorophyte to stone, pearlstone, crimstone, ebonstone, and ash at very low depths. Can be mined with Titanium/Adamantite pickaxe. 1 Vibranium Ore drops from Mimics. I know the name "Vibranium" cannot be used for legal reasons, but whatever name I come up with isn't going to be used anyways, so.

On a vaguely related note, Spider armor should also provide +1 sentry capacity as part of the set bonus, since a sentry is introduced in the same tier.

That's all I got for now. This thread might be a little heavy on new content by my standards, but I tried only to add what was necessary. Leave replies, please. I love you.
 

TheWorfer27

Retinazer
Positive qualities of this suggestion aside, let's get to complaining:
-Vibranium sounds boring to grind, considering its in hardmode hell. There's no challenge to it, it's just a grind (though that fits in ok with summoner)
-Gauze pads are a very useful tool from the jungle to the endgame, however they aren't very exciting to obtain. Spider caves are a challenging visit when you have gold and when you have mythril, but you'll need to use gauze pads in a lot more situations than that.
-I have no idea what you're talking about with the set bonus. Specify.
-1 vibranium ore dropping from mimics would be an inventory clog at best.
 
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Bry

Steampunker
[Oh cool, I fat-fingered Post. Gimme a sec, here.]
These are some interesting ideas. Save for one, I like them all quite a bit.
I actually have a lot of text here, so I'll Spoiler it all.
The Frost Armor interests me the most, seeing it's pretty much my favorite set in the game. I don't exactly understand how the new projectile works; that's probably going to be the deciding factor on whether I'd even use the set anymore, since that seems to be the only way to inflict Frostburn with the Armor Bonus now. As partial I am to the Melee-Ranged combo, I'd be down to relocate to Melee-Summoner.
The debuffs, I like. All of their effects are interesting and unique, but the two that caught my eye are Frostburn and the toxins.
  • Does Frostburn still deal damage? I think the implication is supposed to be "yes", but I'm not entirely sure. As for the HUGE damage reduction bonus, I think that should be locked to the armor set, as you can access Frostburn almost immediately in a new game. I also think the damage reduction should scale in a similar manner to Poison and Venom, starting at maybe 10%, going up by 2% every second to a max 40%. Unless the Frost Armor's icicles aren't super easy to land, anyways, though that might also make me not wanna use it.
The Gauze Pad is the thing that troubles me. It seems wildly unnecessary, and it makes the Ankh Shield even LESS of a desirable item by effectively removing the threat of debuffs altogether. The point you touch upon for including it seems to be the toxins' new damage output, but you also gave separate Player and Enemy effects to Cursed Inferno, so I'd say you can just make Poisoned and Venom's damage scale at a third of their normal speed on Players and call it a day.
And I guess the Sacred Armor is the Escape Plan of the Frost Armor. The damage part of the set bonus might as well be a straight-up 20% damage bonus, because debuffs are pretty easy to inflict (feel free to fill me in an any "low on debuffs" scenarios, though).
The Quetzalcoatl has me intrigued. I'd love to know what it does, if you're interested in adding that.
I'm not super sure on what the point of adding Vibranium would be, but the apparent tediousness of obtaining it makes it less than appealing.
Finally, yes to the extra Spider Armor sentry.
 
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TheWorfer27

Retinazer
[Oh cool, I fat-fingered Post. Gimme a sec, here.]
These are some interesting ideas. Save for one, I like them all quite a bit.
I actually have a lot of text here, so I'll Spoiler it all.
The Frost Armor interests me the most, seeing it's pretty much my favorite set in the game. I don't exactly understand how the new projectile works; that's probably going to be the deciding factor on whether I'd even use the set anymore, since that seems to be the only way to inflict Frostburn now. As partial I am to the Melee-Ranged combo, I'd be down to relocate to Melee-Summoner.
The debuffs, I like. All of their effects are interesting and unique, but the two that caught my eye are Frostburn and the toxins.
  • Does Frostburn still deal damage? I think the implication is supposed to be "yes", but I'm not entirely sure. As for the HUGE damage reduction bonus, I think that should be locked to the armor set, as you can access Frostburn almost immediately in a new game. I also think the damage reduction should scale in a similar manner to Poison and Venom, starting at maybe 10%, going up by 2% every second to a max 40%. Unless the icicles aren't super easy to land, anyways, though that might also make me not wanna use it.
The Gauze Pad is the thing that troubles me. It seems wildly unnecessary, and it makes the Ankh Shield even LESS of a desirable item by effectively removing the threat of debuffs altogether. The point you touch upon for including it seems to be the toxins' new damage output, but you also gave separate Player and Enemy effects to Cursed Inferno, so I'd say you can just make Poisoned and Venom's damage scale at a third of their normal speed on Players and call it a day.
And I guess the Sacred Armor is the Escape Plan of the
I think with the pads it's implied that they inflict potion sickness. However, this also opens up the possibility of getting hit by a moss hornet, then again in the same minute. That's a lethal occurrence, out of 2 common hits.
 
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Bry

Steampunker
I think with the pads it's implied that they inflict potion sickness. However, this also opens up the possibility of getting hit by a moss hornet, then again in the same minute. That's a lethal occurrence, out of 2 common hits.
Yeah, sacrificing a health restoration to clear a slow-damaging debuff seems immensely NOT ideal. I could toggle a Bezoar on and off real quick to achieve pretty much the same effect while also getting to actually recover.
 
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Baconfry

Terrarian
Gauze Pad would not inflict Potion Sickness. That said, it wouldn't be good if it could be used completely for free, so I think maybe I should just remove its compatibility with Quick Heal, so you'd have to actually stop using your weapon in order to cure a debuff. Mobile players would be kinda :red:ed though.

I think it was necessary to add because any effect stronger than -6 health per second would be devastating against a player, yet I'd like debuffs to remain somewhat consistent, whether inflicted on players or enemies.



The Frost armor projectiles have a pretty high velocity like Orichalcum petals, and start a small distance above the target, so they wouldn't be totally worthless underground. In retrospect, the contact damage reduction should have been exclusive to Frost armor from the start, otherwise the Eye of Cthulhu would be way too easy.

And the contact damage reduction has to be an immediate effect, otherwise we relapse back into the current syndrome that plagues debuffs, which is "why should I stand back and watch an enemy getting affected by a debuff, when it would be much faster to just kill it?"



Vibranium is something I feel like I ought to explain more. You wouldn't need much of it. It's only there to ensure that Frost/Forbidden/Sacred armor can't be realistically obtained until you've gone through all the necessary pickaxe tiers. I could tweak the ore/bar ratio so you'd need as little as 9 Vibranium ore for a full set, but you get the picture. It's no more of a grind than the adamantite/titanium that's currently required to craft frost/forbidden armor. And titanium is such a great set that frost/forbidden is basically dead content if you got a titanium world.
 

Bry

Steampunker
Gauze Pad would not inflict Potion Sickness. That said, it wouldn't be good if it could be used completely for free, so I think maybe I should just remove its compatibility with Quick Heal, so you'd have to actually stop using your weapon in order to cure a debuff. Mobile players would be kinda :red:ed though.

I think it was necessary to add because any effect stronger than -6 health per second would be devastating against a player, yet I'd like debuffs to remain somewhat consistent, whether inflicted on players or enemies.



The Frost armor projectiles have a pretty high velocity like Orichalcum petals, and start a small distance above the target, so they wouldn't be totally worthless underground. In retrospect, the contact damage reduction should have been exclusive to Frost armor from the start, otherwise the Eye of Cthulhu would be way too easy.

And the contact damage reduction has to be an immediate effect, otherwise we relapse back into the current syndrome that plagues debuffs, which is "why should I stand back and watch an enemy getting affected by a debuff, when it would be much faster to just kill it?"



Vibranium is something I feel like I ought to explain more. You wouldn't need much of it. It's only there to ensure that Frost/Forbidden/Sacred armor can't be realistically obtained until you've gone through all the necessary pickaxe tiers. I could tweak the ore/bar ratio so you'd need as little as 9 Vibranium ore for a full set, but you get the picture. It's no more of a grind than the adamantite/titanium that's currently required to craft frost/forbidden armor. And titanium is such a great set that frost/forbidden is basically dead content if you got a titanium world.
Yeah, that would definitely balance out the Gauze Pad. And debuff consistency is fair, I suppose.

Oh, I would TOTALLY use that Frost Armor, then.

Well, the effect in question here is damage reduction, not damage over time, which I think is slightly different due to how powerful of an effect it is. I do still concede, though, since I did forget how much more I tend to get hit by projectiles than by direct contact, even as a player who focuses on Melee.

Okay, actually the Vibranium makes a lot of sense to me now. Probably should've done so earlier, frankly, but I suppose "perfect" isn't exactly the most accurate adjective for me.
 

J Bame

Terrarian
I like these reworks, and they really motivate Summoner mixes, which are fun to do. The problem is that it needs a lot of balance adjustments.

The new Frost Armor, or to be more specific, the Frostburn change is completely busted. Reducing most damage by 40% with no drawback is not ok. The only thing that gives more damage reduction than that is the Beetle Shell, and not only does it have a cooldown it also doesn't give any real damage bonuses. This is a decent offensive set with a busted damage reduction that is practically free. Whether it's only on contact damage or not, 40% is way too much.

Sacred armor is a very solid Ranged set. The problem with it is that it buffs minions as well. You see, Forbidden armor gives trash bonuses to Minion and Mage damage because the mix of two Bads makes a Good; this armor gives solid buffs for rangers and the minions. It needs to be toned down but not as much as Frostburn.

The buffs to the rest of player inflicted debuffs are good, especially since all weapons that inflict them are terrible so these are solid improvements to them. My one issue is that buffing Shadowflame also buffs the Shadowflame weapons by a ton, and those weapons are already pretty good so a buff like that makes them overpowered.

Also, IMO none of these debuffs should be stronger on the player than they already are. That just makes them a immediate death sentence unless you are carrying a lot of Gauze Pads (which by the way invalidate the Ankh Shield completely). DoT debuffs are already pretty dangerous to the player so breaking them this much is just trying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist.

TLDR: Good ideas, but need balancing.
 

Baconfry

Terrarian
The new Frost Armor, or to be more specific, the Frostburn change is completely busted. Reducing most damage by 40% with no drawback is not ok.
You’re right, probably. I might have underestimated how many hostiles actually rely on contact damage to harm the player.

The goal was to encourage melee users to fight within melee range, so the new effect I thought of (just now) is for Frost armor users to automatically receive small lifesteal orbs from Frostburned enemies, but only when standing very close to them. This lends itself to more skill-based gameplay, and will probably be terrible against things like Spazmatism and Duke Fishron, but it should be far less situational than Frost armor in its current state.

I have no problem with all debuffs working the same against the player, and it’s probably simpler to keep it that way. The icicle effect can probably be removed from Frost armor as well, unless the Frostburn effect needs to be made less accurate for whatever reason.
 

J Bame

Terrarian
Frost Armor isn't really "situational", it's "worse than Adamantite in every way although it's harder to get". At least the Frost Chest is better than the Adamantite Chest, so you can mix them if you don't mind the set bonus.

The goal was to encourage melee users to fight within melee range, so the new effect I thought of (just now) is for Frost armor users to automatically receive small lifesteal orbs from Frostburned enemies,
One day True Melee will be viable. I hope this pushes it in the right direction, but chances are people will just play melee normally and just use the set bonus because it's occasional lifesteal.
 
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