Terrariapro100
Terrarian
Phantasm is easily outclassed by vortex beater, as well as tsunami and eventide.
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whoneedsnamestbh
Retinazer
Phantasm is significantly stronger than Vortex Beater in all aspects except range (chlorophyte bullets), with just short of double the DPS and being more accurate if you aren’t past the point where arrows fall away. Vortex beater may be better than Eventide and Tsunami, but those are also pre cultist, and still respectably stronger than pre cultist guns: Chain Gun or Xenopopper.
Terrariapro100
Terrarian
Also accuracy. Vortex beater is much better for small targets, and guess what? moon lord is a small target. Also, Who cares about dps when the boss dies really quickly either way? arguments for the stynger and nail gun. I am making a case that bows are usless endgame, not that guns are better.
Coleyohley
Terrarian
I'm sorry? Phantasm has some of the highest (if not the highest) Single Target dps Pre-Moon Lord.
Phantasm's base DPS at its maximum fire rate with wooden arrows is about 1127, and has many, many more accessories that increase its DPS than Vortex Beater does. Magic Quivers can stack and do not apply to Bullets, and neither do Archery Potions.
Vortex Beater has a base DPS of 720, and has less items to increase its DPS.
Tsunami is a weapon that can theoretically be obtained Pre-Mech and can quite easily be obtained Pre-Golem. Its Base DPS is 663, and again, it has far more items to increase its damage than Beater Does.
Eventide has insane crowd control since each arrow can pierce 4 enemies and each shot technically fires 6 arrows, since the middle one deals double damage. It has a base DPS of 600 (again having far more damage-increasing items) and has the ridiculous Crowd Control I mentioned.
Vortex Beater is a great weapon, but it cannot hope to compete with the insanity that it late-game bows.
whoneedsnamestbh
Retinazer
Phantasm fires in tight clusters that are small enough to hit Moon Lord’s eyes, plus the secondary arrows that are fired afterwards are homing. DPS does matter if the difference is almost double, that’s pretty much half the room for player error. Also stynger and nail gun? Those are good for temple tier, but don’t even have a leg to stand on compared to the bows or even the guns.
Terrariapro100
Terrarian
Accuracy is the thing here. As far as I have heard, there is no tracking arrows and most people are not hawkeye.
Dreadnautilus5000🌳
Plantera
You clearly have never used the Phantasm, nor even seen it in action. Tracking arrows are its main gimmick.
whoneedsnamestbh
Retinazer
Phantasm doesn’t need tracking arrows. Even if you missed half your shots, its DPS is still comparable to Vortex Beater, and you shouldn’t miss half your shots. The best arrows for Moon Lord (Ichor, Venom) increase its velocity and therefore make its arc almost straight, and all you have to do to land almost all your marks is keep Moon Lord just barely on the edge of the screen, which is plenty of range (and actually neccesary in first phase to see the eye laser).
Terrariapro100
Terrarian
oh yeah, forgot about the fire rate of vortex beater. same with the speed. All far superior.
Coleyohley
Terrarian
Phantasm's Ghost arrows have homing. And the Spread is small enough to make hitting small targets easy. You can use the minimap to know where a boss is when it's offscreen (it's really not that hard) and firing in that general direction is probably going to get you more DPS than Vortex Beater with Chlorophyte Bullets.
Your argument fundamentally ignores the point of the discussion here. this argument is "Why does it matter if Phantasm is better when Vortex Beater is good enough?" which is completely counter to your argument earlier about Vortex Beater being better.
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whoneedsnamestbh
Retinazer
Fire rate means jack
when Phantasm can fire up to eight arrows per shot (4 for the main shot and 4 for the secondary volleys), and ichor or venom arrows have around the same velocity as a bullet. The velocity of bows is always underestimated in this game.
Coleyohley
Terrarian
Phantasm can fire up to 40 projectiles per second at maximum fire rate. Phantasm is absolutely the winner when it comes to projectiles per second.Fire rate means jack
Terrariapro100
Terrarian
ok ok, ig its just personal opinion. I never liked phantasm and that is just my opinion. (also, vortex beater has rockets and since it has tracking bullets u can focus on dodging)
qwerty3.14
Terrarian
Where'd you get that number?
At max fire rate phantasm fires every 18 frames
shooting 4 arrows at once
Each arrow spawns 3 ghost arrows.
so that's... 53.3 projectiles per second at max fire rate.
If you use holy arrows and count the stars then that's 80 projectiles per second.
Terrariapro100
Terrarian
Holy arrows? those are useless. (late game). They deal like no damage.
Coleyohley
Terrarian
I took the wiki's 12 usetime, 4 arrows per shot, (8 when accounting for ghost arrows. Yes, I was wrong)
Either way, the fact that it fires even more than what I listed only reinforces my point: This weapon puts an absolutely unholy amount of numbers on your screen, far more than the Vortex Beater can.
The amount of damage they deal is based on the damage of your weapon. Each arrows drops two stars, each dealing 50% of the weapon's damage. Essentially, if all stars hit, this arrow essentially deals double damage. I don't see how that's like "no damage."
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qwerty3.14
Terrarian
That 12 is completely unrelated to the phantasm's actual fire speed.
Phantasm is a held projectile; it never checks the use time stat on the item, this also means speed modifers have no effect on it.
Terrariapro100
Terrarian
compare them to chlorophyte. Those bounce, if you build a proper arena with walls chlorophyte deals a TON more damage.
Coleyohley
Terrarian
I see. Anyway, point was that the weapon unleashes an ungodly amount of projectiles, so much so that it absolutely beats Vortex Beater when it comes to potential firerate.
Actually, No. Chlrophyte Arrows do not pierce, meaning they only hit once, for 1x damage. And if they bounce, they lose nearly a third of that damage. Holy doesn't bounce, but if the two stars hit, the total damage is almost ~2x.
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Dreadnautilus5000🌳
Plantera
They are actually broken when combined with multi-shot bows, especially against targets that sometimes stay in relatively the same position for a bit.