Biomes & Nature [Sprites] -The Cyber- a worthy adversary for the Crimson

Most see this as a problem that needs to be fixed, not a fundamental point to base arguments off of.

And I'd love for it to be fixed. Until then, I stand by what I say. Suggestion for enemies to attack each other instead of you and other kinds of aggressive integration is nothing new, so me suggesting it would only serve as a needless reminder.

This also ignores the fact that Corruption and Hallow are perfect opposites, if not opposition. Being narrow minded only leads to wasting people's time.

I get what Corruption vs Hallowed is meant to be or whatever, don't think that I don't. It's all about perspective too. Some just instantly assume that because it is opposites that they will fight each other, so be it. I take in what is happening on the screen; Unicorns and Corruptors completely ignoring each other and trying to tear my face off.

My main point remains that I'd like to have the possibility of having Crimson with Hallowed and Corruption with Cyber instead of just having the opposites. I also think that it can be as vague as 'good vs evil' for people to make sense out of the biomes. It doesn't really need to get deeper than that, especially for a game like Terraria. I know that it is improbable with this idea at this point but I said it nonetheless.
 
And I'd love for it to be fixed. Until then, I stand by what I say. Suggestion for enemies to attack each other instead of you and other kinds of aggressive integration is nothing new, so me suggesting it would only serve as a needless reminder.
There's a thread for that. Take it there instead of wasting our time here, please.
My main point remains that I'd like to have the possibility of having Crimson with Hallowed and Corruption with Cyber instead of just having the opposites. I also think that it can be as vague as 'good vs evil' for people to make sense out of the biomes. It doesn't really need to get deeper than that, especially for a game like Terraria. I know that it is improbable with this idea at this point but I said it nonetheless.
And literally no one else wants that. As I have stated already, Hallow and Crimson or Cyber and Corruption do not fit as oppositions to each other. Your "point" does not change that. Plus, it clearly states "light and dark" when you beat the Wall of Flesh, not "good and evil", which immediately leads any players to conclude the former. Your point is therefore null, because neither Hallow nor Cyber are good in any way- they may appear that way a bit, due to both being a bit deceptive, however neither of them is in any sense "good".
 
Hallow and Corruption are literally intended to be opposition, and nothing you can say,

When did I deny that? I even stated those very words, but what I said is that they just don't do that.

especially with that kind of "everything I say is obviously right" demeanor, will ever change that. It only makes sense to have something to properly opposes Crimson.

Damn, you've jumped over a chasm, assuming I am zealous to all my views.

Why does it have to be strict opposites? I don't understand why it can't be slightly vague. This game has no lore to demand logic like light vs dark or Chaos vs Order.

(Just so we're clear, you're basing your argument on an opinion that couldn't be more far off the mark, whereas I'm basing my argument on actual facts. I think we all know what happens when opinions try to go up against facts.)

Saying that the Hallowed and Cyber vs the Crimson and Corruption should be compatible with any combination is an opinion. Saying that I see the Hallowed, Corruption and Crimson as independently themed is also an opinion, but I didn't use this to say that the Hallowed and Corruption aren't directly linked. I was just saying how I interpreted it. Saying that I see the Hallowed as Mythical rather than 'good' or light is also an opinion, but I wasn't arguing against facts with this. Opposition between the two opposites being non-existent is fact. Hallowed vs Corruption being intentional is also fact, but something I did not deny.

That's all that I have said paraphrased. I don't know where you're pull all of these assumptions from, I don't think there's anywhere I'm arguing with opinions against facts. I was just putting in the idea of compatibility because I liked the idea of having different combinations of loot and fights but in return I get 'Nu-uh, doesn't make sense' and I am certainly going to make it clear that I value gameplay over logic. God forbid I oppose against 'the best idea'.
 
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Our argument.
Fact: Hallow was designed to be a perfect adversary to the Corruption.
Conclusion: Crimson deserves a perfect opponent that is paired along with it.

Your argument.
Fact: ...
Opinion: Biomes should not be linked to other biomes.

Just pointing that out.

Also, since logic doesn't seem to be getting anywhere with you, I'd like to point out that linking the Corruption with the Hallow and the Crimson with the Cyber reduces the amount of worlds you'd need to explore all aspects of the game.
 
Our argument.
Fact: Hallow was designed to be a perfect adversary to the Corruption.
Conclusion: Crimson deserves a perfect opponent that is paired along with it.

Your argument.
Fact: ...
Opinion: Biomes should not be linked to other biomes.

Did not deny the first. Did not deny the second.

I also didn't say that they shouldn't be linked, the links would still be there when you have that combination on your world.

Also, since logic doesn't seem to be getting anywhere with you, I'd like to point out that linking the Corruption with the Hallow and the Crimson with the Cyber reduces the amount of worlds you'd need to explore all aspects of the game

I have little care for experiencing every part of the game as quick as possible.

And literally no one else wants that.

Good for you!

As I have stated already, Hallow and Crimson or Cyber and Corruption do not fit as oppositions to each other. Your "point" does not change that. Plus, it clearly states "light and dark" when you beat the Wall of Flesh, not "good and evil", which immediately leads any players to conclude the former. Your point is therefore null, because neither Hallow nor Cyber are good in any way- they may appear that way a bit, due to both being a bit deceptive, however neither of them is in any sense "good".

I had the word 'vague' with 'good vs evil' to suggest that pairing up what can be seen as good against what can be seen as evil is good enough. I wasn't trying to say that Hallowed is clearly good nor Corruption is clearly evil.
 
And literally no one else wants that.
Hey! I want that. I like whole idea of Crimson and Cyber being opposite. But I dislike Crimson in general, so, after first walkthrought, I'll prefer Cyber/Corruption world. Maybe they are not definitely 'opposite', but they still can't like each other. Corruption Eaters still alive, and Cyber is 'A biome which is devoid of all life'.
I'd like to point out that linking the Corruption with the Hallow and the Crimson with the Cyber reduces the amount of worlds you'd need to explore all aspects of the game.
And that's valid point. I really hate my 5 Crimson worlds in row... Thats why we need some more world generation options, like was suggested here: http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/customizing-your-world-worldgen-options.2756/
 
I guess that means Lihzahrd's palette is bad. Or the Diamond Staff's. Or that of any type of stone. Or snow's. Or ice's. Or the majority of the dungeon. Or even technically Adamantite since all the colors used are the same hue. Or Mythril. Or Palladium. Or basically any easymode ore item. Or the mech bosses, since they're all gray or red.

Cyber is gray, cyan, a bit of black, and a bit of yellow. That's more colors than the mechs, and yet I don't see you compalining about them. (And no, projectiles don't count.)

Cyber isn't SUPPOSED to be colorful. Robots are generally not colorful. That is not a bad thing. That is being CONSISTENT, which by the way is a good thing.
That's philosophy, that is what YOU think robots and cyber should be like. Consistency, that word makes me puke, is the worst thing you should do in a suggestion. I absolutely hate that word for it is something that opposes CREATIVITY which you apparently lack.
 
Consistency, that word makes me puke, is the worst thing you should do in a suggestion. I absolutely hate that word for it is something that opposes CREATIVITY which you apparently lack.
I think I just threw up a little bit. This is truly the most poorly thought out thing I have heard anyone say in these forums. Ever. Consistency has nothing to do with how creative you can be. No, scratch that. it has everything to do with how creative you can be. Consistency is what creates the atmosphere in which you can create whatever you want. Without consistency, there is no order, and without order, there are boundless limitations. What would you do if furniture sets between materials weren't consistent? What if some furniture sets randomly left out a Chair or a Table? You wouldn't be able to build whatever you wanted, because you would be limited by inconsistency. What if accessory and equipment upgrades made absolutely no sense? How would you know how to build and evolve your class? You wouldn't. You would have to be content with your current state or depend upon random and illogical progression. Point being, consistency is one of the core elements in Terraria, which contributes to the fact that is is a fair, balanced game. Without consistency, you have a game that doesn't make sense and lacks any reason.
 
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Generally speaking, inconsistency translates to chaos. While chaos may be good in some aspects (survival of the fittest theory, for example), it is heavily outnumbered by the bad.

When people speak of 'chaotic' gameplay in Terraria, they are talking about the massacre that happens with many foes and projectiles scattering around the air. This is usually a positive experience in Terraria because, well, it is a game where players seek entertainment. Outside of entertainment, it's commonly frustrating.

For example; having your daily routine interrupted every single day. Because there is no consistency, it is hard to cope with things that happen unpredictability. Plans and routines are popular for a reason.

Now the premature Frost Moon event, that was pure chaos. High damage projectile spam everywhere, and no one could fully comprehend what was exactly happening (what they were getting hit by and where).
 
-block of nonsense text-
First of all, consistency is a word with multiple definitions like most of the words in the english vocabulary, as FlakMaster said: "Generally speaking, inconsistency translates to chaos." and while that is true he also said: "it is a game where players seek entertainment" , I am basing this solely on what he said: if you had a game with thousands of different consistent sets of armors and furniture based on materials it would not get as successful. 'Why?' : because there would be no uniqueness to the game, you'd kill bosses and gather materials to build a better tier of equipment or object over and over again, the sole inconsistency would be the difficulty unless you prefer that removed as well.

Consistency is a LIMIT to the creativity. In all your truthfulness do you really think Terrarians prefer, in this case, consistent gameplay where everything has a rule and order or do you rather think of them as adventurers that seek to discover new and unique items, this applies to builders as well & as one I can say that without adventure there would be no point in playing Terraria simply for building, unless of course they're an aspired architect. (this game is for me actually all about getting more materials and decorations for my ULTIMATE BASE, I'm quite a collector)

I also said what you wrote is nonsense because you contradict yourself multiple times: "Consistency has nothing to do with how creative you can be." (ok, totally just separate the two) "No, scratch that. it has everything to do with how creative you can be." (ok.. ok) "Consistency is what creates the atmosphere in which you can create whatever you want." (noted) "Without consistency, there is no order, and without order, there are boundless limitations." (without order there is "inconsistency" which "translates to chaos.", what the hell are boundless limitations (boundless = unlimited)) "What would you do if furniture sets between materials weren't consistent?" (nothing to do with contradictions, simply answering the question: nothing) "What if some furniture sets randomly left out a Chair or a Table?" (I don't think I'd really care) "You wouldn't be able to build whatever you wanted, because you would be limited by inconsistency." (if I wanted to build exactly what I want, I'd make my own game or a mod or use any other means (not playing the game IS a choice), otherwise I'll just use whatever is simply available in the game) "What if accessory and equipment upgrades made absolutely no sense?" (why would someone put those in a game? this has nothing to do with consistency, at least not in this matter, argument invalid) "How would you know how to build and evolve your class?" (by looking at the stats of the item before I created it, discarded/equiped) "You wouldn't" (yes I would.., I'm not blind and I can read as well) "You would have to be content with your current state or depend upon random and illogical progression." (consistency != progression (not equal), random & illogical also don't have anything to do with consistency, better read them definitions (just so you're not saying I'm hiding 'inconsistency' behind my back: unpredictability, inconstancy, lack of consistency, changeableness, variability, instability, irregularity, unevenness, unsteadiness)) "Point being, consistency is one of the core elements in Terraria" (I saw no point and yes that is true, I cannot deny that, however Terraria is a game and not a suggestion it also has a lot of inconsistencies hence the enormous amount of 'nerfs') -dunno what you meant with the 'is is'- "Without consistency, you have a game that doesn't make sense and lacks any reason." (..I'll just say one thing.. take a look at Megaman from 1987)

I hope you're content with my reply, this took some time so I expect we come to a resolution soon, I don't wish for a quarrel, I just wanted to prove a point.
It all comes down to the preference of the individual playing the game.
Also Zoomo sorry from the wall of text, I can put all this in a spoiler, just tell me if you want so.

EDIT: And of course, I forgot to add: I wasn't saying anything about removing consistency from the game as a whole, that would be impossible as everything is consistent in some way but somethings aren't inconsistent as well, and that's where creativity becomes null. I said it made me, and I quote because you're probably eating "puke" >:D
 
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"What would you do if furniture sets between materials weren't consistent?" (nothing) "What if some furniture sets randomly left out a Chair or a Table?" (I don't think I'd really care)
Someone who isn't creative vouching for inconsistency for the sake of creativity? I'm stopping right there.

This is a ridiculous block of nonsense that is not worth my time.

You're arguing for the sake of arguing.

Just.

No.
 
Someone who isn't creative vouching for inconsistency for the sake of creativity? I'm stopping right there.

This is a ridiculous block of nonsense that is not worth my time.

You're arguing for the sake of arguing.

Just.

No.
If you're not ready to argue then you lose, because you can't simply say 'Just.' and 'No.' like you can on tumblr or whatever site you spend your entire day on, what are you going to do next ..'Even.' me? I spent time dedicating to proving you wrong for your sake.. , I also throughly read what you wrote and answered your somewhat rhetorical questions, I replied them without necessarily trying to be creative and I don't even consider myself to be particularly creative while in an argument, unless you deem that necessary.
You're being irresponsible, impolite and disrespectful. I'm not replying to this any further.
 
That's philosophy, that is what YOU think robots and cyber should be like. Consistency, that word makes me puke, is the worst thing you should do in a suggestion. I absolutely hate that word for it is something that opposes CREATIVITY which you apparently lack.
Engeen: "Consistency lacks creativity."
Fact: the Cyber adds consistency.

Put two and two together.

Engeen: "The Cyber lacks creativity."

Which is the most disgustingly false statement that anyone could possibly come up with.

If this is what you intended to say, Engeen, then I will never have any respect for you again. If it wasn't what you intended to say, and you just oppose consistency in most cases, then it doesn't belong in this thread regardless.
 
Disrepectful to others
-giant wall of stupidity-
You'll forgive me for stating that I have flat-out lost a lot of brain cells from this- because I have. First and foremost- this tells me you know absolutely nothing about spriting, because if you did you'd know just making random :red: would look awful. ANYONE with spriting experience knows this. The same holds true for the colors in this case- how would you like it if everything was all colorful and :red:? You wouldn't, because oh hey, now it looks like surface Hallow, and oh hey, it doesn't hold true to the theme. THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING THE ENTIRE TIME.

Consistency is not a limit to creativity- if anything it can encourage it. Have you ever tried building something using only a set theme (in other words, consistent materials)? I have, and guess what- it encourages you to take a creative approach to building. It encourages you to get creative with how you structure things in order to enhance the theme. By contrast, inconsistency (in other words, building with whatever wherever) may give you more room for creativity, but it often ends up :red:-ugly. I can personally attest to this- you do not want to see some of my older bases that just look completely awful because I just built up stuff whenever I needed it with whatever I had available, which often resulted in a conglomeration of rooms made up of something like 50 different types of block, and looked completely idiotic. You are basically saying that kind of building is better, or that kind of spriting in this case, when it obviously isn't, because it looks ugly and just isn't as appealing. (By contrast, building a giant skybase out of uniform materials looks much, much better.)

In addition, as FlakMaster stated (something I can actually agree with him on), in a situation like this inconsistency is just straight-up frustrating. Imagine getting a bunch of mechanical monsters that are all for the most part uniform and then suddenly hot pink eye-searing always-shows-up glowy worm as long as the destroyer (this is an extreme example but still proves my point). No one would like that. Now imagine a bunch of bright :red:ing blue, also eye-searing Cop Bots that show up when you approach a golden Floater. Still ugly as :red:, and while it addresses your complaint about "too much consistency", it's still completely idiotic. Sure, a little gold or bronze might do well to help lighten up the slightly excessive quantity of gray, however what you're complaining about is something that otherwise can't be fixed without destroying the theme of the biome. And no one wants that.

In fact, I can cite a perfect example from my own experiences on this issue- a while back I was playing a forum game on another site- a Paper Mario game to be precise. For the most part it used just sprites in the original PM style, but then one day someone said "hey I want X" and suddenly sprites from Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door (its sequel for the gamecube) started getting incorporated. Almost the same style, but much larger and more detailed. And guess what. It drove everyone insane, because it was inconsistent. It's why, since I do most of the sprites, I mandate that if it has a sprite, it HAS to be in the original PM style, otherwise someone strangles someone else. (There are very few exceptions to this.)

(Also, fun fact, even if it doesn't seem apparent, inconsistency tends to unnerve basically everyone, at least the kind you're proposing is ideal.)
If you're not ready to argue then you lose, because you can't simply say 'Just.' and 'No.' like you can on tumblr or whatever site you spend your entire day on, what are you going to do next ..'Even.' me? I spent time dedicating to proving you wrong for your sake.. , I also throughly read what you wrote and answered your somewhat rhetorical questions, I replied them without necessarily trying to be creative and I don't even consider myself to be particularly creative while in an argument, unless you deem that necessary.
You're being irresponsible, impolite and disrespectful. I'm not replying to this any further.
Pot to kettle, you are black. That's all I'll say on this matter.


Also what Baconfry said.
 
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Disrepectful to others - debate the topic, not the person
If you're not ready to argue then you lose.
Someone who wouldn't care if random limitations were placed on creativity is not someone who is qualified to argue for the cause. From this, I can determine that you are merely arguing for the sake of arguing, because if not for actual concern, then what else? I've dealt with people like you before, and grinding your argument to pieces will undoubtedly result in an enormous waste of time and both sides losing.

I left because this is going nowhere, not because you won. I'm keeping myself out of this eminent disaster.

Oh, and keep in mind that being intolerable doesn't make you right. It's just all the more reason to believe your wrong.
 
Engeen: "Consistency lacks creativity."
Fact: the Cyber adds consistency.

Put two and two together.

Engeen: "The Cyber lacks creativity."

Which is the most disgustingly false statement that anyone could possibly come up with.

If this is what you intended to say, Engeen, then I will never have any respect for you again. If it wasn't what you intended to say, and you just oppose consistency in most cases, then it doesn't belong in this thread regardless.
You should read what I replied to SzConsistency.

Engeen: "The Cyber lacks creativity."

Don't quote that, I never said that. I actually wrote:
Hey Zoomo I've known your suggestion for a long time but it is just now that I have read it throughly and I find it really interesting although there are some things bothering me like how you didn't quite develop the palette that is illustrating the robots and the environment, it all looks so generic and gray-scaled.
So I sprited this robot thing to show you what I mean, it could be more colorful:
HdDFhNC.gif
This is also a bad example because it's not futuristic looking but my points on the colors.

Also.. Cyan Ice xP

Also.. Flappy Bird
on page 6, finding it interesting means I like it.

I never meant to debate against consistency of the suggestion but the colors zoomo uses which later brought me arguing about consistency itself and it's role in this game. Hope you don't hate me now..
 
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