tModLoader Experience and Classes

[Strayed Soul]

A thought:
Should the Soul Binder (or a new class) limit the number of minions to 1, but offer a large boost for each minion lost this way? Would a class with one super minion be fun to play?

I do know that Class Based RPG Mod does that with one of it's classes, if you were to make a new class about it, it'll just be another possible fun class for some, me included.

 

[Saerus]

Oh it would be fun to play.

OH IT WOULD!

I'm imagining one tiny, but badass, space dragon... lol
Or one small, inconspicuous raven that has DPS for days.

I'll revisit the idea sometime during v0.5.0. Would it be sensible to have 3 advanced minion classes: minion quantity, minion quality, and one minion?
[doublepost=1483399545,1483399250][/doublepost]Surprise! (nobody asked for this, yet here it is! :S)

Hybrid I can now advance to any Tier 3 class making it the perfect choice for anyone who is undecided. Of course, you can also continue on to Hybrid II and fully embrace the flexible playstyle.

 

[NeoPhantom]

Erm... quantity vs quality.

If theres only one minion, it should be of better quality.
If theres many minions, they should be of lower quality.

That's two styles, not three. Unless the benefit of only one minion is NOT having higher quality. Which would make no sense...


Possibilities for Summoner type classes include:

Sentry specialized summon class (as added in the last update with the Old Ones Army) which increases sentry number and possibly increases the power of the original sentry summons (queen spider, frost hydra) in exchange for having a minion count of zero.

A minion debuff type class. Basically, level ups grant the minions themselves additional properties such as inflicting debuffs on enemies. This would be more of a utility class that has the minions weaken the foes so that the player can fight them more easily. For balance sake, the minions can havereduced damage but increased knockback, further exemplifying their support theme.

A Magic Familiar, Spirit Animal, Caretaker-type class would be quite good. Basically, the summons get stronger than usual, but not too much. On the other hand you are limited to only one minion of each TYPE, though the overall limit of minions also increases by level. Basically, the player will have stronger minions, but will have to use a variety of minions instead of a ton of the same minion. Might even get a boost if the player has a pet/light pet equipped.


Btw- cool idea with the hybrid class being able to branch out!

 

[Strayed Soul]

Erm... quantity vs quality.

If theres only one minion, it should be of better quality.
If theres many minions, they should be of lower quality.

That's two styles, not three. Unless the benefit of only one minion is NOT having higher quality. Which would make no sense...

I think you seem to be something. Currently there are two types of summoner, one that adds minion count, quantity, and one that buffs the regular amount of minions, quality. He is thinking of adding a new class that reduces the minion count to one but giving it a boost of dmg, depending on the max minion count possible. That is just a possibility.

An modifying minions to do more than their originally programmed to do is not something that should be apart of this mod in my opinion. The option of having different minions should be left to the player not the class. But that's varied anyway by weather or not the minion does melee or have a range attacks and their damage also varies by that as well. Again my opinion.

 

[Saerus]

Erm... quantity vs quality.

If theres only one minion, it should be of better quality.
If theres many minions, they should be of lower quality.

That's two styles, not three. Unless the benefit of only one minion is NOT having higher quality. Which would make no sense...


Possibilities for Summoner type classes include:

Sentry specialized summon class (as added in the last update with the Old Ones Army) which increases sentry number and possibly increases the power of the original sentry summons (queen spider, frost hydra) in exchange for having a minion count of zero.

A minion debuff type class. Basically, level ups grant the minions themselves additional properties such as inflicting debuffs on enemies. This would be more of a utility class that has the minions weaken the foes so that the player can fight them more easily. For balance sake, the minions can havereduced damage but increased knockback, further exemplifying their support theme.

A Magic Familiar, Spirit Animal, Caretaker-type class would be quite good. Basically, the summons get stronger than usual, but not too much. On the other hand you are limited to only one minion of each TYPE, though the overall limit of minions also increases by level. Basically, the player will have stronger minions, but will have to use a variety of minions instead of a ton of the same minion. Might even get a boost if the player has a pet/light pet equipped.


Btw- cool idea with the hybrid class being able to branch out!

It's three styles if you consider these to be distinct:
-horde of weak minions
-a few decent minions
-one super minion

The above would be a balance of quality/quantity with a middle ground. All three would play differently, I believe - but the middle option wouldn't be as unique as say the Assassin or Saint classes.

SENTRY:
I would love to have a sentry class, but this will not happen for two reasons:
-vanilla has very few sentries and almost all non-vanilla sentries do not use the sentry limit
-sentry limit is not handled like minion limit and would either be impossible to alter or just more effort than it's worth
(I have already considered this)

DEBUFF:
Minion debuff class is doable.

FAMILIAR:
The familiar class would probably require implementing several new summoner weapons, which this mod will not be doing. However, it would probably be possible to give bonuses for each unique type of minion using the vanilla ones (this would extend to most, but not all non-vanilla summons).

 

[NeoPhantom]

Ah right. Balance between quality and quantity! Derp!

Dont really get why Familiar class would require new summoner weapons though... what I had stated was what you said second, giving buffs with unique minions types.

Gotcha on the sentry class, being a very recent addition, coding is limited for it at present...

 

[Saerus]

Ah right. Balance between quality and quantity! Derp!

Dont really get why Familiar class would require new summoner weapons though... what I had stated was what you said second, giving buffs with unique minions types.

Gotcha on the sentry class, being a very recent addition, coding is limited for it at present...

The "one minion" type class is probably interesting enough to implement, but there could be a pretty big exploit with that class and sentry minions. I don't know if I could reduce the limit on sentries (I know that I can't easily increase it). There's a good chance that the class could build for sentries and have 5 sentries and 1 minion, all of which would be super powered.

I've added it to my list of things to consider again later. For now, my focus is on balancing and enhancing the existing classes. and on releasing v0.5.0 (almost there!)

 

[Le tromp du Jawa]

more hp enemies give more xp ?

 

[Saerus]

more hp enemies give more xp ?

experience = (max life / 100) * (1 + (defense / 10)) * (1 + (damage / 25))

You can think of this as:

• base experience is 1 per 100 health
• experience is doubled for every 10 defense
• experience is doubled for every 25 damage

 

[Saerus]

v0.5.0 (experience curve overhaul)
-fixed a bug that could cause periodic mana or life regen to trigger while token was in inventory
-fixed a bug that could prevent heal aura from healing
-fixed a visual bug where health/mana restore effects could appear twice
-fixed a bug where monsters with invincible segments (e.g., crawltipedes) gave absurd experience
-added methods to allow auras to grant actual buffs
-reduced Saint heal aura radius to match the size of other auras
-Warriors now deal more damage
-Assassin is no longer an attack speed class, focus is on criticals
-Assassin now deals 10/20/30% bonus melee critical damage
-new Berserker class (branches from Squire) to fill attack speed niche
-minor buffs to melee Rogues
-Summoner can now have 2 bonus minions in first class
-added a defense aura to Sage to make it a more appealing choice
-a few other smaller class adjustments (see post)
-adjusted the experience curve to increase the realistically attainable max level from ~28 to ~95 (old level -> new level: 5->10, 15->25, 25->65, 28->95)
-scaled all bonuses and level requirements to fit the new experience curve and targeted legit "max" level
-optimized experience calculations
-increased technical max level (for non-legit playthroughs) to 3000 to offset the decrease in bonus ratios
-decreased experience requirements for levels 1-10 and raised level for first class change to level 10
-raised level for second class change to level 25
-implemented “Opener Attacks” for Assassin (bonus damage against full-health targets or if no attack has hit recently, gains triple benefit from critical damage)
-renamed "At Level X Bonuses" to "Unlocked Bonuses".
-renamed "Per Level Bonuses" to "Scaling Bonuses".
-experience requirements that are 10+ digits no longer show on UI (affects non-legit levels only)
-coloured class icons to indicate tier
-adjusted class tree descriptors to reflect changes, added tier colours, and added Berserker
-new figure of experience curve added to main post
-balanced advanced minion classes (Minion Master has damage penalty per bonus minion, Soul Binder’s bonus damage reduced and no longer receives any bonus minions). **MM has survivability through sheer number of minions and also has slightly higher overall damage in early/mid levels. SB has survivability through health/defense and has slightly better overall damage in very high levels**
-Hybrid can now advance to any Tier 3 class making it the perfect choice for anyone who is undecided as well as anyone who simply enjoys a more-flexible playstyle
-class tokens now state that total mana cannot exceed 400
-overall mana bonuses have been reduced due to how much of an effect this was having on mana regeneration
-added basic defense aura to Saint at level 60 (only Sage will offer second and third tier defense aura

v0.5.0 is out and it's a big one.

Now accepting bug reports

 

[updatedude]

Is level 3000 supposed to freeze your character?

I wanted to see if being high level will slow the game like it used to. First I set it to level 1000, and it seemed fine. Then I set it to 3000, and my character's vanity vanished and he can no longer move. I reset to level 1 and it was fine. Then I set to level 2999, and it was fine. I set it to level 3000 again and once again, the character (not the game) froze.

 

[Saerus]

Is level 3000 supposed to freeze your character?

I wanted to see if being high level will slow the game like it used to. First I set it to level 1000, and it seemed fine. Then I set it to 3000, and my character's vanity vanished and he can no longer move. I reset to level 1 and it was fine. Then I set to level 2999, and it was fine. I set it to level 3000 again and once again, the character (not the game) froze.

Cool bug. I'll take a look.

Edit: Fixed. I'll put up a version with just the fix so nobody gets confused or reports it again.

v0.5.1
-fixed issue when level is set to max possible value

 

[updatedude]

Playtesting a bit, seems decent. Now, granted I'm testing T3 Tokens, but I'm on a normal world. I could hit level 2/3 with just half a dozen or so Corruption mobs and hitting level 5 isn't too tough. Breaking into level 6 takes a bit but on normal, that should doable in the course of normal gameplay without dying. The gains are pretty good too, given that you're probably only to get a Shackle this early on.

Setting the level to 100, the Token is basically one of the stronger, if not strongest Mod accessory, but not anymore broken than other top tier Mod accessories like the souls from Fargo's mutant mods or Thorium's top tier armor. It's simply easier to get legit vs Fargo's complex crafting requirements, but requires a bit of grinding or AFKing.

Will report as I've more time to test this out.

 

[Mayor Bear]

So do you guys think that assassin or warrior would be better for a yo-yo playthrough?
I'm leaning assassin and I'm excited about this.

 

[Saerus]

So do you guys think that assassin or warrior would be better for a yo-yo playthrough?

Yo-yo has lots of small hits, which isn't well suited to Assassin's "Opener Attack" system, but it would be pretty easy to get those hits safely. The crits would still be pretty big.

If you wanted a critical build, I would recommend the mod that converts yo-yos to throwing (sorry, I forget the name) and then playing a Ninja with it. Note that Ninja do not have critical damage - only rate.

Otherwise, Warrior has good damage and is a bit tankier.
[doublepost=1483414197,1483413689][/doublepost]

Playtesting a bit, seems decent. Now, granted I'm testing T3 Tokens, but I'm on a normal world. I could hit level 2/3 with just half a dozen or so Corruption mobs and hitting level 5 isn't too tough. Breaking into level 6 takes a bit but on normal, that should doable in the course of normal gameplay without dying. The gains are pretty good too, given that you're probably only to get a Shackle this early on.

Setting the level to 100, the Token is basically one of the stronger, if not strongest Mod accessory, but not anymore broken than other top tier Mod accessories like the souls from Fargo's mutant mods or Thorium's top tier armor. It's simply easier to get legit vs Fargo's complex crafting requirements, but requires a bit of grinding or AFKing.

Will report as I've more time to test this out.

The first 10 levels should fly by even on a fresh character.

Level 100 is absurdly powerful. Keep in mind that it takes around 16 million experience (total) for level 100. It's no easy/quick task. I expect that most people will only make it to 50-70 on a typical playthrough with some grinding.

EDIT:
I have updated the first post with lots of useful information and graphics.

 

[Ranik Ortega]

Hello Saerus, your mod is of great interest to me. I have some concerns about balance though since even at level 50-70 it seems like the Class tokens clearly outclass any other accessory.

How hard would it be to create a far tamer version?

 

[Saerus]

Hello Saerus, your mod is of great interest to me. I have some concerns about balance though since even at level 50-70 it seems like the Class tokens clearly outclass any other accessory.

How hard would it be to create a far tamer version?

I won't be developing a parallel version, but you can reduce experience gain with /exprate to keep things at a pace that you enjoy. There are a few other recommendations in the main post for increasing difficulty.

 

[Namesomething]

Just out of curiosity, do I need to change something with the commands after updating from 0.4 or older to 0.5?

 

[aMannus]

I took another shot at the sprites. I converted my shield idea into a "badge" idea, to better fit the large sprites.

This is the version where I kept the sprites the original size:

And this version where I resized the icons to have some whitespace around the icons. Can make the image a little bit blurry, but I prefer these myself:

I'm personally still not happy with them, but I suck at art, so this is the best I'll ever do.

Tell me what you think.

 

[Le tromp du Jawa]

That's ******** amazing