The post-golem and pillar section of the game

[Flint🪓]

Talking with @Ferrin🌳 in another post of a summon version of the zenith kinda devolved into a discussion of in general the post-golem section of the game so I just created this post instead.

The main idea of this post is how I think that the post-golem section is pretty cluttered (in general the post-plantera is quite bloated with content, not that im angry about that though) but due to the pillars giving you the final weapons for moonlord which I think makes most post-golem weapons irrelevant and I think pillar weapons and the Zenith were kinda a mistake to be added. After all, why spend time on (for example) the OOA event to get the Flying dragon sword, only for it to be outclassed by the Daybreak for single target dps on Moonlord. This makes in my opinion most post-golem weapons obsolete since you quickly replace them.

For the Zenith it’s just that has no real use begin a post-moonlord weapon, in my opinion the role of “ultimate weapons” was already occupied by starwrath and meowmere as the final swords for melee which is why im agaisnt the idea of adding a Zenith equivalent for the other classes.

Im not saying that these should be removed (for obvious reasons) but that it could have been better made. Don’t take this as a fact though.

Also I wanna hear the opinions of this from other people and discuss about It.

 

[SOUR LEMON]

I think some items in post-plant tier should be tier shifted, there is just too much content bloat post-plant (pp)

 

[exoticscimitar]

I agree. While the Terra Blade serves a purpose for the Zenith (which is endgame itself) and it looks really good, you can use it to beat like 1-2 bosses and it's obsolete. Stinks getting a weapon from prehardmode all the way to, like, post-Golem just to stop using it.

 

[Green_Metaknight]

The main idea of this post is how I think that the post-golem section is pretty cluttered due to the pillars giving you the final weapons for moonlord which I think makes most post-golem weapons irrelevant and I think pillar weapons and the Zenith were kinda a mistake to be added. After all, why spend time on (for example) the OOA event to get the Flying dragon sword, only for it to be outclassed by the Daybreak for single target dps on Moonlord. This makes in my opinion most post-golem weapons obsolete since you quickly replace them.

On higher difficulties, Lunatic Cultist can get really hard.
Also, the only post-Golem things are OOA Tier 3, Martians, and Duke Fishron. But most players fight Fishron either pre-Mech or post-Moonlord, so he doesn't really count.
OOA Tier 3 has 4 weapons, and Martians have 4 weapons. If you add that to the 5 Golem weapons, that's 13 different weapons to fight Lunatic Cultist with.
Plantera drops 6 weapons, Post-Plant Dungeon has 9 weapons, Frost Moon has 7 weapons, Pumpkin Moon has 6 weapons, and EoL has 6 weapons.
And then there's Terra Blade, the 3 Biome Weapons, 2 weapons sold by the Cyborg, the Resonance Scepter, and the Nailgun and Toxic Flask. That's 42 weapons to fight Golem with.
4 Hallowed weapons, True Night's Edge, True Excalibur, Death Sickle, Megashark, Flamethrower, Light Disc, Venom Staff, 4 Chlorophyte weapons, and 5 OOA Tier 2 weapons.
That's 20 weapons to fight Plantera with.
Lunatic: 13
Golem: 42
Plantera: 20.
Even counting Duke Fishron weapons (4 weapons + 13 = 17), there is more weapon choices to fight Plantera with than to fight Lunatic Cultist with.
And post-Mech is an area of progression that doesn't really have that much content. So if anything, Post-Golem might not have enough content. (Post-mech doesn't have enough either.)

 

[Flint🪓]

On higher difficulties, Lunatic Cultist can get really hard.
Also, the only post-Golem things are OOA Tier 3, Martians, and Duke Fishron. But most players fight Fishron either pre-Mech or post-Moonlord, so he doesn't really count.
OOA Tier 3 has 4 weapons, and Martians have 4 weapons. If you add that to the 5 Golem weapons, that's 13 different weapons to fight Lunatic Cultist with.
Plantera drops 6 weapons, Post-Plant Dungeon has 9 weapons, Frost Moon has 7 weapons, Pumpkin Moon has 6 weapons, and EoL has 6 weapons.
And then there's Terra Blade, the 3 Biome Weapons, 2 weapons sold by the Cyborg, the Resonance Scepter, and the Nailgun and Toxic Flask. That's 42 weapons to fight Golem with.
4 Hallowed weapons, True Night's Edge, True Excalibur, Death Sickle, Megashark, Flamethrower, Light Disc, Venom Staff, 4 Chlorophyte weapons, and 5 OOA Tier 2 weapons.

And thats the issue, most post-plantera weapons can be enough for golem and lunatic cultist, then you can just get you pillar weapon and be ready for the Moonlord. Why even bother on obtaining a post-golem weapon (with excepcions) when you are going to replace it so quickly? If the pillar weapons didn’t exist you would bother since those post-golem wepons would be the ones you use for the pillars and moonlord.

 

[Green_Metaknight]

And thats the issue, most post-plantera weapons can be enough for golem and lunatic cultist, then you can just get you pillar weapon and be ready for the Moonlord. Why even bother on obtaining a post-golem weapon (with excepcions) when you are going to replace it so quickly? If the pillar weapons didn’t exist you would bother since those post-golem wepons would be the ones you use for the pillars and moonlord.

Well on higher difficulties, Lunatic can get powerful enough that post-Plantera weapons won't be enough.

 

[Flint🪓]

Well on higher difficulties, Lunatic can get powerful enough that post-Plantera weapons won't be enough.

If for higher difficulty you mean for the worthy and getfixedboi, yeah maybe post-plant weapons won’t be enough for the cultist. But most of the fight is to just circle around him and be careful with the clones and the ice attack. Things like tactical shotgun and the terrablade probably are enough for the cultist, both of these are post-plant.

But yeah you better get something else for the cultist and the pillars on these difficulties, I barely played master mode (let alone for the worthy and getfixedboi) so I can’t argue about it to much.

 

[chewythebigblackdog]

While the cultist may get more powerful on higher difficulties, so does the bosses that you'd want to get gear from. Cultist is an easier fight than empress of light and duke fishron no matter what difficulty you are playing. The only difficulty that usually comes with fighting cultist with mediocre weapons is dealing with the phantasm dragon, which you can simply avoid having to deal with by not shooting the wrong duplicate. As for preparing for pillars, it doesn't usually matter, since with careful play and/or dying a bunch you can beat pillars even if you don't have the best gear available. There's potentially an argument for delaying cultist in hardcore mode to be better prepared for pillars, but with the right weapons (e.g. terra blade) and/or cheese strategies (mainly vortex and stardust), you can still rush cultist and do fine.

 

[Dapling]

in my opinion the role of “ultimate weapons” was already occupied by starwrath and meowmere as the final swords for melee which is why im agaisnt the idea of adding a Zenith equivalent for the other classes.

The reason people want more weapons to compete with zenith is so that they can actually choose between multiple options for killing stuff in post moon lord. I actually tested and zenith deals so much more dps than everything else in the game that even on builds with the highest ranged, magic, or summoner bonuses possible it’s better than their respective options. Zenith is so obscenely broken that even other classes can use it as their main weapon and still pull off more damage than their actual damage type.

The only way to solve this is by giving zenith competition from a different damage type. You can either do this by adding more weapons at its level of power for other classes, or nerfing zenith. I think we all know which is preferable.

 

[Orchamut]

I don't think OOA tier 3 should be mandatory as it's a crossover event and in my opinion some of the weapons from Betsy are really good if you ignore how difficult it is to obtain them. Martian Madness is still in a better place than the Pirate Invasion, as the weapons are mostly actually good and it has a Zenith component and the wonderful laser drill, so I don't think it really needs to be improved immediately.

Honestly I think the easiest and best way to fix the pillar weapons while keeping them worth obtaining would be to give them an extra crafting component and have Duke Fishron and Empress of Light each drop a new material (similar to the mech bosses' souls.)
Because there are two weapons for each pillar, one weapon could use the material from Duke Fishron, and the other could use the material from Empress of Light. That way there can also be some strategic planning for when you're deciding to fight one of those bosses.
If they add a third weapon for each pillar as some people have speculated, then either it could use a bit of both materials, or use a third material obtained from Martian Madness or something.

 

[Green_Metaknight]

I don't think OOA tier 3 should be mandatory as it's a crossover event and in my opinion some of the weapons from Betsy are really good if you ignore how difficult it is to obtain them. Martian Madness is still in a better place than the Pirate Invasion, as the weapons are mostly actually good and it has a Zenith component and the wonderful laser drill, so I don't think it really needs to be improved immediately.

Honestly I think the easiest and best way to fix the pillar weapons while keeping them worth obtaining would be to give them an extra crafting component and have Duke Fishron and Empress of Light each drop a new material (similar to the mech bosses' souls.)
Because there are two weapons for each pillar, one weapon could use the material from Duke Fishron, and the other could use the material from Empress of Light. That way there can also be some strategic planning for when you're deciding to fight one of those bosses.
If they add a third weapon for each pillar as some people have speculated, then either it could use a bit of both materials, or use a third material obtained from Martian Madness or something.

I agree with the first part of this statement, but the second half has one big problem with it; Duke Fishron's wonky AI.
The thing about Duke Fishron is that about 50% of people are naturally talented at fighting him, but 50% of people aren't.
And it has nothing to do with players' skill; there are people who are bad at Terraria and good at fighting Fishron, and there are people who are good at Terraria but bad at fighting Fishron.
There's also people who are good at Terraria and good at fighting Fishron, and people who are bad at Terraria and bad at fighting Fishron.

 

[Orchamut]

I agree with the first part of this statement, but the second half has one big problem with it; Duke Fishron's wonky AI.
The thing about Duke Fishron is that about 50% of people are naturally talented at fighting him, but 50% of people aren't.
And it has nothing to do with players' skill; there are people who are bad at Terraria and good at fighting Fishron, and there are people who are good at Terraria but bad at fighting Fishron.
There's also people who are good at Terraria and good at fighting Fishron, and people who are bad at Terraria and bad at fighting Fishron.

I'm personally one of the people who can't beat Duke Fishron, but it would help that there would be two choices of pillar weapons, and then you could also use the one pillar weapon you were able to obtain from beating EoL to beat Duke Fishron.

 

[Dapling]

And it has nothing to do with players' skill

That’s actually wrong. Everyone I know who’s good at duke fishron originally got slaughtered by him. The key is to focus and study his attack patterns and not panic or get overwhelmed. That’s the key to learning him and once you get past it you have a much easier time.
It also helps to have high mobility. If you’re using wings, add frog leg. If you aren’t, add featherfall potion. If the bubbles are what’s killing you, use Inferno potion to give yourself a forcefield. Otherwise just go perpendicular to the boss every time it dashes at you.
If you still have trouble even after all that, just stack every source of DR and defense you can and use Vampire Knives and you can beat the boss without moving even in Master Mode.

 

[Flint🪓]

And it has nothing to do with players' skill; there are people who are bad at Terraria and good at fighting Fishron, and there are people who are good at Terraria but bad at fighting Fishron.

Nah, it took me a while to even survive Duke´s phase 3, once I got used to it, it is actually the easiest past of the fight for me. Skill really matters.

 

[Weakest Wormwood Enjoyer]

That’s actually wrong. Everyone I know who’s good at duke fishron originally got slaughtered by him. The key is to focus and study his attack patterns and not panic or get overwhelmed. That’s the key to learning him and once you get past it you have a much easier time.
It also helps to have high mobility. If you’re using wings, add frog leg. If you aren’t, add featherfall potion. If the bubbles are what’s killing you, use Inferno potion to give yourself a forcefield. Otherwise just go perpendicular to the boss every time it dashes at you.
If you still have trouble even after all that, just stack every source of DR and defense you can and use Vampire Knives and you can beat the boss without moving even in Master Mode.

Duke is a case where you get bombarded with stuff outta the gate. In my opinion, it's a fight that, once you know what he does, can never hit you as hard. Yes he still punches like a freight train, but his biggest strength is just doing a bunch of things that you don't expect. Learn his attacks, and a lot of bite gets lost.
(I say getting folded by him like 30 times-)

 

[Orchamut]

I can beat him alright in Classic, but in Expert mode and above I always find Duke Fishron to be more difficult than the Moon Lord.

 

[Green_Metaknight]

OH, now I get it. He's one of those bosses that takes 200 attempts to memorize his AI, just like 75% of modded bosses and 0% of the other vanilla bosses.
And whenever people memorize his AI, they forget how hard he originally was and just say "Skill issue" whenever someone complains about his absurd difficulty.
The reason I have so much trouble beating Fishron is because I get bored more easily than other people. And fighting a boss 200 times just to memorize the AI is boring.

 

[vessal]

OH, now I get it. He's one of those bosses that takes 200 attempts to memorize his AI, just like 75% of modded bosses and 0% of the other vanilla bosses.
And whenever people memorize his AI, they forget how hard he originally was and just say "Skill issue" whenever someone complains about his absurd difficulty.
The reason I have so much trouble beating Fishron is because I get bored more easily than other people. And fighting a boss 200 times just to memorize the AI is boring.

Struggling with duke fishron use master ninja gear
I think post golem is too short and should see something to prevent rushing

 

[Weakest Wormwood Enjoyer]

OH, now I get it. He's one of those bosses that takes 200 attempts to memorize his AI, just like 75% of modded bosses and 0% of the other vanilla bosses.
And whenever people memorize his AI, they forget how hard he originally was and just say "Skill issue" whenever someone complains about his absurd difficulty.
The reason I have so much trouble beating Fishron is because I get bored more easily than other people. And fighting a boss 200 times just to memorize the AI is boring.

I still die 80% of the time I fight Fish.

And I still stand by my statement.

 

[Dapling]

OH, now I get it. He's one of those bosses that takes 200 attempts to memorize his AI, just like 75% of modded bosses and 0% of the other vanilla bosses.
And whenever people memorize his AI, they forget how hard he originally was and just say "Skill issue" whenever someone complains about his absurd difficulty.
The reason I have so much trouble beating Fishron is because I get bored more easily than other people. And fighting a boss 200 times just to memorize the AI is boring.

Not at all, I gave plenty of advice for learning the boss quickly in my other post.

It also helps to have high mobility. If you’re using wings, add frog leg. If you aren’t, add featherfall potion. If the bubbles are what’s killing you, use Inferno potion to give yourself a forcefield. Otherwise just go perpendicular to the boss every time it dashes at you.
If you still have trouble even after all that, just stack every source of DR and defense you can and use Vampire Knives and you can beat the boss without moving even in Master Mode

When I said “beat the boss without moving” I wasn’t joking, btw. You really can beat the boss without moving.

Reforge all the accessories to Warding and just spam your vampire knives for an easy win.