Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

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Pigman Δ said:
*runs around the room screaming and pulling hair out*
Whips are NOT meant as a primary weapon.
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You see, the problem here is you keep seeing how things are, and not how they ought to be, and then firmly deciding that the two are the same. It's a common problem, and cause for much of the world's woe.

What you're suggesting is that they were introduced for the sole purpose of ignoring entirely, which is an even more absurd proposition than trying to fix summoner's kit to get real use out of them. You're also suggesting that this will be the de-facto last time there's a chance to do anything about it. I mean, it might be. But if Terraria has taught me anything, it's that there's always room for a little improvement.
 
Sia_Later said:
I was wondering, is there a reason the increase to mining speed caps at around 70%? I know it's not all that common for players to go full mining gear with ancient chisel, mining potion, high quality food, have a slice of cake, and a celestial shell; but, i don't see any sort of benefit to capping it.
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It was probably for those people that would go all out for a mining setup. Even in the endgame, that mining speed would be pretty nuts considering what the average speed usually is.
 
So, I noticed, that this thread exists just a couple of days ago. Since then, I made a list of things, which, in my opinion, shoukd be tweaked.

1. I've seen tour post, showing spoilers for some balance chabges, and I like all of them except making Horseshoe a gold chest item and Fledgling Wings - a sky chest item. In my opinion, during normal gameplay (by playing normal terraria without various mods or journey mod's tweaks) wings shoild be hardmode-exclusive item, because Soul of Flight which are required in pretty much every set of wing in the game is a hardmode material. Also, because of having wings pre-hardmode hirseshoe and hirseshoe baloons will become much less useful. So, what's my idea of fixing that? You sad, that you only add wings because various people who collect items asked you. And I suggest you to make them exclusive for "for the worthy" seed. Then collectors will be able to get them, journey mode players won't be sad because of possible nerf to that set of wings, and terraria's belief that wings must be hardmode-exclusive will stay. I think that horseshie should be kept in gokd chests then, considering that in my opinion it is the best item from those chests.
2. I support Jota Bame's suggestion of fixing true melee that he posted here. Here is a link in case you missed that.
forums.terraria.org

Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

I can't really say I agree. If a new player was to use a bow or gun that explicitly says shoots multiple bullets, they'd expect the same multiple bullets to have the same effect. I don't think limiting an ammunition's special effect to a single shot/arrow works. An appropriate fix to the...
forums.terraria.org forums.terraria.org

3. I think nobody covered this here, but are you going to rebalance prefixes? Because some of them are much more powerful, that other. For example, in expert mode you can get 24% damage or 24% crit. chance, but only 24 defense, which equals only 18 damage reduction. As far as I still use warding prefix (because I am awfil at dodging), a lot of people even believe, that defense stat is exstremely useless in general. I am not the best balancer, but maybe warding should provide defense in persentage. Than it will give 24% defense, and that will make this more useful throughout the game, since you defense stat will be increased by various armors and other accessories and as a result, this bonus will be more useful throughout the entire game (like it is with menacing). Also, perhaps you shoukd make 1 defense - 1 damage reduction for expert worlds and 1 defense - 2 damage reduction for master worlds too, but that may end up being op.
4. After you nerfed Reaver Shark, mobody fishes for it. Because niw it isn't useful at all (gold pickaxe is extremely easy to get). I know, that my suggestoon will break the progression a bit, but it is the only way to make people want to fish for this pickaxe - let it to mine hellstone. I will repat, that I know, that it breaks progression, but in is still worse rhan before, since you still have to craft Molten Pickaxe to mine Palladium ore/ Cobalt ore.
5. This is not fully a balance change, but I still thing, that it should happen. So, all WoF's drops are somewhat steampunk themed and then you add Firecracker, which doesn't fit that concept. My solution: to make it craftable from hellstone (because Snapthorn is not powerful enough agains underworld creatures) and add new unique one for WoF.
6. I read that you made Flanewalker boots, before thinking of Terraspark ones, but I still think, that they have a chance of being good by played. Make their fire particles deal damage. And that's all. It is quite an easy fix, that will give a huge impact on these boots usefulness.
7. Buff Arkhalis. Other developer's weapons like Red's Throw is actually useful throughout the game, but Arkhalis is just "Oh cool, I got a rare item. Time to put it in chest and never use" type of weapon.

These might not be the only things I'd like ti fix, but at least thesebare ones which I find the most important ones.


Edit: I was inattentive enough to forget to give the link.
 
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TOMKA said:
So, I noticed, that this thread exists just a couple of days ago. Since then, I made a list of things, which, in my opinion, shoukd be tweaked.

1. I've seen tour post, showing spoilers for some balance chabges, and I like all of them except making Horseshoe a gold chest item and Fledgling Wings - a sky chest item. In my opinion, during normal gameplay (by playing normal terraria without various mods or journey mod's tweaks) wings shoild be hardmode-exclusive item, because Soul of Flight which are required in pretty much every set of wing in the game is a hardmode material. Also, because of having wings pre-hardmode hirseshoe and hirseshoe baloons will become much less useful. So, what's my idea of fixing that? You sad, that you only add wings because various people who collect items asked you. And I suggest you to make them exclusive for "for the worthy" seed. Then collectors will be able to get them, journey mode players won't be sad because of possible nerf to that set of wings, and terraria's belief that wings must be hardmode-exclusive will stay. I think that horseshie should be kept in gokd chests then, considering that in my opinion it is the best item from those chests.
2. I support Jota Bame's suggestion of fixing true melee that he posted here. Here is a link in case you missed that.
forums.terraria.org

Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

I can't really say I agree. If a new player was to use a bow or gun that explicitly says shoots multiple bullets, they'd expect the same multiple bullets to have the same effect. I don't think limiting an ammunition's special effect to a single shot/arrow works. An appropriate fix to the...
forums.terraria.org forums.terraria.org

3. I think nobody covered this here, but are you going to rebalance prefixes? Because some of them are much more powerful, that other. For example, in expert mode you can get 24% damage or 24% crit. chance, but only 24 defense, which equals only 18 damage reduction. As far as I still use warding prefix (because I am awfil at dodging), a lot of people even believe, that defense stat is exstremely useless in general. I am not the best balancer, but maybe warding should provide defense in persentage. Than it will give 24% defense, and that will make this more useful throughout the game, since you defense stat will be increased by various armors and other accessories and as a result, this bonus will be more useful throughout the entire game (like it is with menacing). Also, perhaps you shoukd make 1 defense - 1 damage reduction for expert worlds and 1 defense - 2 damage reduction for master worlds too, but that may end up being op.
4. After you nerfed Reaver Shark, mobody fishes for it. Because niw it isn't useful at all (gold pickaxe is extremely easy to get). I know, that my suggestoon will break the progression a bit, but it is the only way to make people want to fish for this pickaxe - let it to mine hellstone. I will repat, that I know, that it breaks progression, but in is still worse rhan before, since you still have to craft Molten Pickaxe to mine Palladium ore/ Cobalt ore.
5. This is not fully a balance change, but I still thing, that it should happen. So, all WoF's drops are somewhat steampunk themed and then you add Firecracker, which doesn't fit that concept. My solution: to make it craftable from hellstone (because Snapthorn is not powerful enough agains underworld creatures) and add new unique one for WoF.
6. I read that you made Flanewalker boots, before thinking of Terraspark ones, but I still think, that they have a chance of being good by played. Make their fire particles deal damage. And that's all. It is quite an easy fix, that will give a huge impact on these boots usefulness.
7. Buff Arkhalis. Other developer's weapons like Red's Throw is actually useful throughout the game, but Arkhalis is just "Oh cool, I got a rare item. Time to put it in chest and never use" type of weapon.

These might not be the only things I'd like ti fix, but at least thesebare ones which I find the most important ones.


Edit: I was inattentive enough to forget to give the link.
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Welcome to the balance thread! Glad to have you here. :)

1: I also found the addition of wings strange, since I always thought that pre-hardmode wings would forever be a modded thing. The reason the wings were added was because people didn't like mode-exclusive items so they were added to normal modes. I don't really think it provides as much as a problem, though. The wings can be a replacement to your horseshoe balloon if you can't find both items. They both provide extra height and fall damage immunity, and since the horseshoe is now earlier in progression the wings are technically an upgrade. You can combine the horseshoe with the balloon if you want to after you get the wings, or you can just have the balloon and it won't make a difference.
2: These things have been noted and are being worked on. Obviously not completely by the suggestions, but they're doing their best. And I still don't believe true melee is viable. What's wrong with a bunch of rainbow cats shooting out of your sword?
3: But prefixes are balanced? I mean, you can choose whether or not you want to mix them up, or go with Warding or Menacing or Lucky or whatever. I don't I've ever seen anyone say that prefixes are over/underpowered. And defense is not useless. Sure, defense in Master mode can be a pain since everything one-shots you, but in Normal and Expert mode, a few defense can be the difference between life and death.
4: The Reaver Shark has been discussed in great extent in this thread that has spanned multiple pages, and they are looking into rebuffing it somehow.
5: As you said, not a balance change, but I find the WoF to be more fiery-themed than anything, considering he's fought in hell. So, to be honest, the Firecracker is better-themed than anything else. But in the end, does the WoF have a theme outside of fire? He's the Guide unleashing his true power in the form of a bunch of blood and guts, soooooo... yeah.
6: I think this has been discussed too. :D
7: But that's what that is now; a vanity weapon. It's been replaced by the Terragrim (which I'm still salty about, why you gotta do the Arkhalis like that. Jk) and now the Arkhalis is just there as a token. And when have you ever used a dev weapon as a main source of damage? :eek:

Hope this helped, and looking forward to whatever else you bring to the table. <3
 
TOMKA said:
1. I've seen tour post, showing spoilers for some balance chabges, and I like all of them except making Horseshoe a gold chest item and Fledgling Wings - a sky chest item. In my opinion, during normal gameplay (by playing normal terraria without various mods or journey mod's tweaks) wings shoild be hardmode-exclusive item, because Soul of Flight which are required in pretty much every set of wing in the game is a hardmode material. Also, because of having wings pre-hardmode hirseshoe and hirseshoe baloons will become much less useful. So, what's my idea of fixing that? You sad, that you only add wings because various people who collect items asked you. And I suggest you to make them exclusive for "for the worthy" seed. Then collectors will be able to get them, journey mode players won't be sad because of possible nerf to that set of wings, and terraria's belief that wings must be hardmode-exclusive will stay. I think that horseshie should be kept in gokd chests then, considering that in my opinion it is the best item from those chests.
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You can stack the effects of horsseshoe balloons with the wings, however if I had to chose just one to use I'm taking the horseshoe balloon, fledgling wings just aren't that great at flight.

TOMKA said:
3. I think nobody covered this here, but are you going to rebalance prefixes? Because some of them are much more powerful, that other. For example, in expert mode you can get 24% damage or 24% crit. chance, but only 24 defense, which equals only 18 damage reduction. As far as I still use warding prefix (because I am awfil at dodging), a lot of people even believe, that defense stat is exstremely useless in general. I am not the best balancer, but maybe warding should provide defense in persentage. Than it will give 24% defense, and that will make this more useful throughout the game, since you defense stat will be increased by various armors and other accessories and as a result, this bonus will be more useful throughout the entire game (like it is with menacing). Also, perhaps you shoukd make 1 defense - 1 damage reduction for expert worlds and 1 defense - 2 damage reduction for master worlds too, but that may end up being op.
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I'd say just add 2 defense to each defensive modifier, where warding gives +6 defense, although the devs seem very conservative about defense buffs. Flesh knuckles only gained 1 defense.

TOMKA said:
4. After you nerfed Reaver Shark, mobody fishes for it. Because niw it isn't useful at all (gold pickaxe is extremely easy to get). I know, that my suggestoon will break the progression a bit, but it is the only way to make people want to fish for this pickaxe - let it to mine hellstone. I will repat, that I know, that it breaks progression, but in is still worse rhan before, since you still have to craft Molten Pickaxe to mine Palladium ore/ Cobalt ore.
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no... this will still break progression, the concern wasn't being able to mine hardmode ores after defeating WoF the concern was getting access to hellstone before fighting any boss. I'd suggest lowering its useTime so that it mines faster than a gold/plat pick but not change its pick power, tthat way you would still be excited getting it early on because of the faster mining speed but it won't break progression.

TOMKA said:
5. This is not fully a balance change, but I still thing, that it should happen. So, all WoF's drops are somewhat steampunk themed and then you add Firecracker, which doesn't fit that concept. My solution: to make it craftable from hellstone (because Snapthorn is not powerful enough agains underworld creatures) and add new unique one for WoF.
Click to expand...
If we're going to move a whip to late prehardmode how about we don't screw with the best whip in the game? I'd rather nerf the morning star and move it to preahardmode dungeon since it's kind of in an awkward place right now.
 
Hmm, we can all agree that the Firecracker is good but not OP, right? How about giving Kaleidoscope a buffed version of its effects? Doing this will remove its redundancy. It will also create a whip that is better than the FC. We can then move FC to Hellstone, rework the Blade Staff and buff the whips while giving WoF this thing `:naughty:
The Tongue.png
 
Closing the gaps in whip progression while following the rule about not adding in new items would very complicated tbh. I agree that we need a whip somewhere between Snapthorn and Hardmode is needed, but moving some whips results in its whole new set of problems

Moving the Firecracker to Hellstone would mean that Wall of Flesh would no longer have a summon weapon drop, which to fix that, would require adding new items. It would also mean summoners are cheated out of a good whip for Hardmode until the Durendal, unless the Cool Whip was completey reworked.

Morningstar is pretty awkward where it stands and could be movebut I have to point out there’s already a giant gap between Durendal and post-Plantera whips, and removing the most accessible of the post-Plantera whips would only make this worse. This is probably the better option, but it isn’t ideal.

I know we have a “rule” that adding new items probably won’t happen, but in this situation that’s probably the best solution. Idk, maybe someone else could come up with another genius solution that my small brain wouldn’t think of.
 
Greybrynn said:
Then that defeats the purpose of using it if you are not a ranger, and also it would help make summoner have more things to use, and make them more viable
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Uh... no? It is exactly effective as before for everyone except ranger, who just gets a few more points of damage. Class neutral damage isn’t boosted by any class. It’s a buff to give it any damage type. Summoner would get exactly the same amount of leverage out of it as before (in fact, they would get more use out of it because it allows crimson armor and accessory prefixes to affect it)
 
MrD108 said:
Volatile Gelatin and Spore Sac
(Expert Mode Accessories)
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Correct, but those are more passive in nature. The Bone Glove, mounts, and summons can receive input from the player and therefore aren’t passive like they are. Again, unless you obsessively restrict yourself to a challenge run when the game says absolutely nowhere that you need to, there is no reason for them not to give it a damage class as it is a straight buff.
 
Derpling Ω said:
Correct, but those are more passive in nature. The Bone Glove, mounts, and summons can receive input from the player and therefore aren’t passive like they are. Again, unless you obsessively restrict yourself to a challenge run when the game says absolutely nowhere that you need to, there is no reason for them not to give it a damage class as it is a straight buff.
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But it is neither a weapon, nor a mount, nor a summon. This is an attacking accessory. It doesn't affect any stats, so it shouldn't have attack class stats either.
 
MrD108 said:
But it is neither a weapon, nor a mount, nor a summon. This is an attacking accessory. It doesn't affect any stats, so it shouldn't have attack class stats either.
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Shield of Cthulhu is melee class and that has never stopped anyone from using it. Especially in class specific runs which aren’t melee. Also one could argue that the Golden Shower is another example, being a free way to boost damage to all classes and taking absolutely no dedication to use (even chippy used one in his ranger playthroughs.)
 
Derpling Ω said:
Shield of Cthulhu is melee class and that has never stopped anyone from using it. Especially in class specific runs which aren’t melee. Also one could argue that the Golden Shower is another example, being a free way to boost damage to all classes and taking absolutely no dedication to use (even chippy used one in his ranger playthroughs.)
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Therefore, I believe that she should also have neutral damage.
Using it while playing Summoner (or Mage or Ranger) always leaves a nasty feeling in the back of your head.
 
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