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1.3 Proposed changes for each Class

Discussion in 'Other' started by Ghostal, Jul 6, 2015.

  1. Ghostal

    Ghostal Terrarian

    I did this on Terraria online, a couple patches ago so I'll just go over what my changes for each archetype or class needs. Note I'm not asking for any nerfs, just things that don't make sense that need changing for each playstyle armor set. I'll go over the end game sets, and possibly more stuff if you people like what you read.

    Melee- Overall I feel they're in a good place with this new patch. I don't have much to say on what needs changes. I know the beetle set can get slightly more DPS, but I feel the solar armor is pretty balanced, though the new dash charge gets lost with the inclusion of mounted combat in my opinion. The new weapons give Melee the AOE it lacks against targets and the DPS is line with other classes with my testing.

    Ranged- I feel the armor is a vast improvement of shroomite armor, who's buff in my opinion didn't really work with having to stand still as a ranged class. Now you can be stealth and be able to move while keeping the damage buff, of course the limited mobility isn't as effective in solo play, but shines in multiplayer.

    Weapons is where I feel confused on along with end game ammo:

    Guns- So you can craft a new gun with the fragments you get from lunar event, and you receive a new gun on defeating the moon lord. The guns themselves are great, but the endgame bullets are just a letdown. Most ranged users are still using chlorophyte bullets, due the inaccuracy of the guns and lunar events enemy and bosses. While piercing effect is nice and the damage is noticeably higher, having not to aim and every bullet going where it needs to against the sheer amount of enemies and the moon lord is an easy choice. I think the developers should take another look at the luminite bullets and give ranged users a bigger incentive to use them over chloro bullets.

    Bows- Bows almost have the opposite problem of guns, you can craft a new bow, yet you receive nothing from beating the moon lord? The only positive side of it, is that the new arrows you can craft from the ore are pretty good and the unique effect of the second arrow being shot is vastly more original than piercing with the luminite bullets. I would ask the developers why no end game bow for bow users?

    Rocket Launchers- Rocket launchers have a confusing situation like the bow. You can't craft a new rocket launcher, yet the moon lord drops an endgame rocket launcher with no new ammo? I don't get the reason behind why the ranged class has such weird game design when designing their weapons in 1.3. You add a weapon and take away along with ammo, what is the reasoning behind this? I'd ask for a rocket launcher you can craft along with ammo.

    Mages- Before this patch, mages had 2 sets, one for healing and one for DPS. The healing set needed tweaking and got diminishing returns on healing, along with mana potion sickness to balance out the armor. Now we receive a new set, where our role is now buffing? The buffs are nice when you can get the stacks rolling and the regen, health and damage are good.

    The issues I have are with the mechanics of the set, and past changes that no longer make sense now.

    -The first one is collecting the buffs is a pain in the :red:, there's 3 different types of buffs one for health and mana regen and the last for magic damage. You have to during your battle, while you're watching your health and mana (baring the mana flower, thats almost mandatory) find and collect these buffs you need which are scattered all to hell while avoid getting killed to grab them along with mana stars due to the mana sickness and fight all at the same time. Thats just too much hassle especially on bosses, where you need to dodge and move, you don't have time to get them. I would suggest the buffs either automatically stack instead of trying to find them or have the timer last longer than 8 seconds.

    -Second issue I have is with mana sickness from using mana potions. Mana sickness was introduced to balance out spectre healing armor being able to heal and deal high damage at the same time with no downsides, they made spectre mask to give the set a DPS option and introduced mana sickness to balance out the healing from doing too much damage. With 1.3 the moon lord can't be life drained thereby eliminating the healing set entirely leaving you only with the DPS set and the mana sickness used to balance out the armor. The problem is the Nebula armor has no life drain, yet mages still have to deal with the mana sickness introduced to balance out a set no longer in use. Most of the 1.3 mage weapons are high mana drain weapons that blow through mana potions, and I don't understand the reason why mages still need mana sickness when the developers made weapons in 1.3 that gulp through mana potions at a crazy rate. I would suggest removing mana sickness and rebalance weapons if they're too far out of scale with other classes.

    Summoner-
    Summoner is the new kid on the block, and the damage increase for minions is nice, the class still has issues in regard to play-style and the set itself

    The biggest gripes I have are the minions and the lack of direct damage.

    -Lets start with the minions the most glaring issue is the lack of being able to have them target specific enemies, the AI pretty much does what it pleases once summoned and can't be directed in any shape or form. There needs to be a way to control them.

    -My second issue, is that the static minions you can summon need to follow you also. There are situations like for example the moon lord, where mobility is needed and with static minions they very easily get left behind having you either to fight around them or run away from them in order to not die. They should have an option where you can select whether they follow you or stay static.

    -My last issue is the lack of any direct damage items. Summoners have their own damage type in summoner damage, yet there is no item in the game that allows the summoner to deal direct damage, why is that? You have summoners stack all this minion damage, yet while the minions are off fighting the summoner has no way to deal direct damage other than using another archetypes weapon and letting all that summoner damage go to waste. They need some type of weapon that goes off summoner damage to defend them when their minions are off fighting. My suggestion would be either a weapon like I mentioned earlier that goes off of summoner damage or a transformable feature that turns the class into a summoner form of some type allowing him to deal damage of his own to makes use of their damage type.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
  2. ZombieHunter

    ZombieHunter Terrarian

    I agree with you in most points, except with the static minions. I believe the static minions should be always able to move (slower than the player) and attack. To be honest this "minions", are just sentry guns waiting for targets to get in range to shot them.
    Also for the "direct damage items for the summoner", here is a suggestion: http://terraria.gamepedia.com/Shadowflame_Apparition
    (Summoned projectile-like minions that cause summoner damage)
     
  3. SolaR

    SolaR Spazmatism

    The Phantasm is endgame and kind of OP. Also Magic needs to be NERFED. The Lunar Flare and Last Prism with Mana Potions are OP, even WITH mana sickness.
     
  4. Vikri

    Vikri Terrarian

    Another solution is making the bat scepter deal summoner damage.
     
  5. Granger

    Granger Terrarian

    If you're doing that then the bee gun and wasp gun also.
     
  6. Vikri

    Vikri Terrarian

    Im not entirely sure. They are guns, so ranged or magic or summon?
     
  7. Z0MG Pixelz

    Z0MG Pixelz Terrarian

    Then mages have no pumpkin moon drop. Anyway, summoners don't need any direct damage weapon. They'd basically be mages with minions in that case. I see no problem at all with just using another class's weapons to deal extra damage.
     
    SpitefulFox likes this.
  8. Evan20000

    Evan20000 Terrarian

    Last Prism deals way too much damage right now and Celebration isn't really that good at the moment, but aside from that, the endgame items feel relatively in line with each other imo. At least my initial impressions with them.
     
  9. Ghostal

    Ghostal Terrarian

    In relation to what? The ranged class without using it's special ability for the vortex set does around the same damage with the SDMG using crystal bullets as a mage using Last Prism, once the mana sickness kicks in, it falls way below. Melee using Starfury does around the same damage as Lunar Flare with no mana or mana sickness.
     
  10. XiaoThePotato

    XiaoThePotato Skeletron Prime

    I think you mean "Star Wrath", but in any case, he's pretty much right. I believe mana sickness should be nerfed greatly or removed altogether. It serves no purpose now.
    If not remove it, what could happen is nerfing the max reduced magic damage to 15-20%.
    The Celebration could also use a buff. It does less damage than the Nail Gun, and it doesn't home like the Snowman Cannon. Right now, the only features that allow this item to even be considered in normal gameplay is the fact that it shoots two rockets at once, and that the blast radius is ridiculously large. Other than that, there's literally no reason to use this instead of the Snowman Cannon, which is a tier lower.
     
  11. FlakMaster

    FlakMaster The Destroyer

    People who can't/don't want to aim a very easy to use weapon use chloro bullets.

    Crystal and Explosive are both much better and easier to get. I don't know why people love chloro bullets so much.
     
  12. XiaoThePotato

    XiaoThePotato Skeletron Prime

    Well, for one, they take down those goddamn Crawltipedes faster than any other bullet, due to the singular fact that you don't need to aim. You just need to try less hard in general to kill things. It allows the player to focus on dodging instead of having to dodge and aim at the same time.


    (By the way, shouldn't this thread be moved to Suggestions -> Equipment?)
     
  13. FlakMaster

    FlakMaster The Destroyer

    Dodging and aiming with a weapon that shoots super straight and fast has been incorporated into so many games and genres that I thought most gamers would be fluent with it. I don't know how this game would be an exception.
     
  14. Ghostal

    Ghostal Terrarian

    When you take Chloro bullets you focus less on aiming, more on dodging positioning. It also makes the Moon Lord a hell of a lot easier.
     
  15. ZombieHunter

    ZombieHunter Terrarian

    Not to mention manny "inferior" weapons/spells get turned into a "superior" version of that weapon/spell, like the flails, boomerangs and spears.
    (The mechanic stays the same, but the damage and the fire rate increases.)
    The same could be done to chloro bullets.
     
  16. DJFlare84

    DJFlare84 Mechanic

    SO MUCH AGREED.

    I think the best thing they could do is make Luminite a bullet that forces the gun to be perfectly accurate, eliminating the spread of guns like Gatligator and even the freakin' Vortex Beater to be perfectly straight. That'd be a HUGE incentive to use it at all.

    Honestly it feels a little sad that there are endgame drops from the moon lord that outshine the stuff you get from the pillars. It's almost like you don't even need to make them?

    On that note, it kinda bugs me that all the endgame armors require an ore that only drops from the FINAL BOSS. You'd think that you should be able to make the endgame armor beforehand to, you know, HELP you fight the Final Boss. But, instead, you get it AFTER.

    ... I mean, I'm not saying it's not a neat reward. It just feels weird to not have it in the Moon Lord fight.

    I bet a Vortex Launcher would look damn beautiful, too...

    Even MORE agreed.

    I mean, I love me some Specter Armor but even I could admit the healing was WAY strong. But even WITH the Mana Sickness debuff you could easily cheese your way through anything. You just needed some Mana Cuffs (or even Celestial Cuffs if you can manage). Boom. Mana on damage. Use that mana to restore health. It's an unending see-saw of survivability!

    The silly thing is that some weapons have a right-click function (sniper rifle zooms on right-click), so why not just make this a right-click function for minions? Right click to indicate a point where your minions should gather, the way you can do with the Stardust Guardian!

    Yeah. They kinda dropped the ball on that one. It's almost like they purposely don't care about it. You'd think a summoner should be able to bring every weapon he's got to bear against a foe, but, like... say if you're fighting the Moon Lord. If you're trying to keep him hovering around your sentry's attack range then you're going to die. That's just all there is to it.

    I had a suggestion about this...
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2015
  17. WhiteWeasel

    WhiteWeasel Terrarian

    Also something someone that I forgot who brought up in a video complained that there are no defensive minions. He'd like to see a minions that have HP and armor and hover around you. They may deal weak or no damage at all, but in turn they can soak up incoming attacks for you.
     
  18. Lukeman1884

    Lukeman1884 Terrarian

    I agree with the point on Luminite bullets. Sure, we needed piercing ammo which wasn't weapon-specific but it's just not enough of an effect to warrant it being the rarity that it is. As for the point on summoners, my suggestion is to either rebalance or make new version of the stationary minion weapons (like staff of the frost hydra and whatnot) that deal more damage but only persist for a few seconds. Hell, even just a weapon which you can use to command existing minions target a specific enemy would be a welcome change. I've lost count of the number of times I'm been nom'd on by an enemy while my stardust dragon was attacking something 50 feet away.
     
  19. hankjwimbleton58

    hankjwimbleton58 Terrarian

    Yes I agree with everything, you should be a dev ^.0 and I really wish they would efffing nerf the last prism and then nerf it again, and about mana sickness, what are y'all talki about? Use a mana flower and you will used a load of potion, reducing the dps for the prism would be a whole lot helpful
     
  20. Rokk

    Rokk Terrarian

    My biggest gripe is why does Mage have so little defense? They fulfill around the same role as Ranged, but have a very low defense on their armors for no particular reason. God help me if I ever have to take a hit.

    The mana sickness is also stupid.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2015