Items Add Flying Carpet and Pharaoh's Set and banners from the pyramids at Oasis/Mirage Crates

[Toxophilite [East]]

...because those are just furniture, and don't matter to most players.

...and Pharaoh's Set is just a Vanity Item [that nobody liked before] that can be transmuted into functional Accessory items; one gated behind Fishing RNG and Hardmode, the other on World Gen; 1.4.4: Can now be obtained by combining a Forbidden Fragment with a Cloud in a Bottle at a Crystal Ball, by throwing a Pharaoh's Mask into shimmer, or found in Oasis/Mirage Crates [Wiki].

The historical context doesn't matter anymore, because you can use Shimmer to transform the Pharaoh's Set into those other items.

I'd argue that it makes the issue even more relevant, because the items being hated, are likely why they can be transmuted into functional accessories at all. This means that they have an actual impact on balance and progression, so the "they're just harmless Vanity Items" position doesn't work here. You can't just say "it doesn't matter" as if that means something, because the Wiki even takes the history of this item into account, it obviously matters.

The Traveling Merchant and Sugar Glider are a different king of RNG check, because they're repeatable. It will never be impossible to get a Sugar Glider pet, and it will never be impossible to get rare items from the Traveling Merchant, but on many, many worlds, the Flying Carpet remains completely unobtainable, due to circumstances outside of the player's control.

...and that's true for Drunk World [Moon Lord Legs, a functional Vanity Item, that'll have a complete Set in 1.4.5], Don't Dig Up, get fixed boi, and will likely be true for the newer, cross-over Seeds in 1.4.5 [which is why I brough them up]. Why should Pharaoh's Set be any different from Moon Lord Legs, which will require 'World Hopping" to obtain? The same topics are gonna come up for that set too, should this also be changed with 1.4.5?

Why are you using my suggestion as a weapon against Shayd? I hardly expanded on his idea at all. Just because he didn't specifically say 1/30 drop chance. This is a very strange point to make.

...because it doesn't recreate the same issue that the Devs already solved with Sandstorm in 1.4.4. I'm stating obvious stuff you can look up already and repeating myself, I'm pretty sure I didn't leave out any context.

Also, your 1/30 suggestion is oddly similar to how the Devs solve the Fledgling Wings riddle, even though you keep suggesting that my comparison was "poor" [which is kinda humorous]. Not sure how a valid and already successful method of game balance, suddenly become a weapon but... okay?

It's true that Sandstorm in a Bottle is obtainable in every world, but you can't get it until Hardmode...

...incorrect... [repeat: Sandstorm info]

You can get Fledgling Wings in every world. They are a rare drop from Sky/Azure Crates. I don't feel the need to make this point more clear or to elaborate on it further.

As I said, this is an already complex, but resolved issue, and I agree with you. There's nothing meaning that you'd be able to add to it [and no, that's not an insult, incase you're wondering].

Sandstorm in a Bottle and Flying Carpet deserve the same treatment. Furthermore, I don't appreciate the insinuation made by you saying "whether I understand it or not." We are disagreeing about the balance and distribution of items in a video game. There is no need to take jabs at my intelligence.

Sorry you took it that way, but these are your words: "...your standpoint is very flawed and your arguments are weak."

I referenced you to the discussion that was had about Fledgling and Carpet already, because all the people involved are very-well versed in all-things Terraria, to include a Dev that was directly involved in balancing the game. If P.Robes and Carpet weren't connected in any way, I wouldn't even be here, but they are. This isn't an attack on your intellect, but a simple "knowledge check", which isn't going to impact World Peace, or stop any World Wars.

Also your words: "The historical context doesn't matter anymore...", which is also false, because it obviously does, which is why I keep referencing the discussion around Carpet again, and again. It's not that serious, I agree, but I don't feel like arguing with Devs anymore about balance if I don't have to, especially something that was already 'fixed' with the updates. it's exhausting... so yes, it's important, but it's not the most important thing in the world.

 

[Shаyd]

This was an attempt to use to forum rules [being off topic] as a weapon, because they didn't like my opinions.

What?
What the hell are you talking about?

Enchanted Sword, Crawdad/Shelly/Salamander Banners and other items are already available regardless of world generation. Obviously the developers are going for the most items being available in every world.
An analogy can be made here with alternate items, you can already get most alternate items, and so Scourge of Corruptor/Vampire Knives should also be available regardless of world evil, whether you like it or not.

so your suggestion that, and I quote: "Whether you like it or not, the developers have already made sure that most items are available in every world, as I said before.", is factually and empirically incorrect.

You're picking on the wording, really?
Why?
How does it affect the point of the sentence?
Why look for holes in the wording?
If you build a fraudulent scheme using holes in the law, does it stop being fraudulent? Watching the argument that has occurred in my absence, I keep seeing exactly how you look for holes in the wording. By doing so, you are just prolonging the dispute, essentially proving nothing.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

@Shаyd , I'm not interested in arguing word semantics with you, I provided context with all of my statements, to include sources and previous discussions on the matter. It was you who tried to dismiss them by claiming they were off-topic, which was both disingenuous and intellectually dishonest [see: Moon Lord Legs +Set coming in 1.4.5]. If you have a valid reason why Pharaoh's Set should get special treatment over other items and Vanity Sets, please... I'm all ears. If not, I think I've made my case already.

 

[Big Sammich]

It's just been brought to my attention that you can, in fact, get the Sandstorm in a Bottle from Oasis/Mirage Crates already. I did not know that. In light of this information, I rescind my previous arguments in this thread in all places where that information disproves my point, and I apologize for any confusion that my arguments may have caused. I do still support the suggestion to add the Flying Carpet to these crates, though.

 

[Shаyd]

It was you who tried to dismiss them by claiming they were off-topic

Dude, by "off-topic" I didn't mean any rules or anything, I was just saying that world generation ≠ world difficulty.

I provided context with all of my statements, to include sources and previous discussions on the matter.

I'm not interested in arguing word semantics with you

Quote:

The Traveling Merchant makes everything you've said here irrelevant, because the Devs embrace the idea of RNG being baked into the experience, and items being obtainable or not, being out of the Player's hands, all-rolled-up in one beloved NPC.

If that's not enough for you, the Sugar Glider Pet [a 1.4+ item, meaning it's new] is a 1/1000 drop [example]. "...it's asking for an ability to get around an (often frustrating) RNG check." isn't relevant to this discussion either, because there are clearly items in the game that don't care about this sentiment. You can't just say that as if it means something, "why?", Why should Pharaoh's Set be any more unique than Sugar Glider or Dungeon Furniture when it's not even functional, and has a documented history of being hated? The OP needs to give a valid reason IMHO, especially if they're gonna "play dirty" [saying I'm being off topic].

THIS is the context? Equating infinite-repeat RNG to one-time generation is "context"?
You're picking on the wording, these "holes in the law", ignoring the point.

see: Moon Lord Legs +Set coming in 1.4.5

The developers said Moon Lord's Body will be generated in a chest that is generated in a new structure that is generated in the world with only a 10% chance?
Secret seeds, world difficulty, all of that is a different category.

If you have a valid reason why Pharaoh's Set should get special treatment over other items and Vanity Sets, please... I'm all ears.

It is exactly NOT supposed to be different from other items. The developers have already done this with other items, I've given examples, and pyramid loot applies to items that are not affected and that's should not be.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

Firstly, let me be clear about my position so there's no confusion. I don't agree with your suggestions for several major reasons.

1. They almost-all go outside the scope of already-established rules/content that doesn't exist elsewhere in-game.
2. Your initial take on the method to obtain Pharaoh's Set mirrored a problem the Devs already solved in 1.4.4 and 1.4.4.6.
3. Your suggestion also favors two [2] useful Pyramid/ Oasis Exclusive Items for no legitimate reason, Sandstorm and Carpet.
4. A decent number of Biome Crates do drop furniture items [mostly Functional, not all], but none of them drop Banners... not even the one's you'd assume would [Dungeon, Sky Island].
5. None of them seem to drop "Full Sets" of any kind of Vanity Item(s), again, not even the one's you'd assume would do so [Seaside, Stockade, Bramble]...

Point is, even though you continue claiming that your suggestions are "normal" and "reasonable", when compared to how the game currently functions, as of 1.4.4.9, this is factually and empirically untrue. You're specifically asking for a LOT of Pyramid favoritism, but there are other "Mini-Biomes" in-game that aren't 100% guaranteed to appear in a "Normal", but let's go with "Classic World", either, like Living Trees. This obviously becomes a cycle with no foreseeable limit, because by principle, this would need to apply to each and every piece of "missable" content in the entire game; and that's true just by observing the Forums regularly.

It turns into a game of "having a piece of gum for the entire Class, when all you wanted to do was share some of it with your friend", and I'm not a fan of game-bloat.

Dude, by "off-topic" I didn't mean any rules or anything, I was just saying that world generation ≠ world difficulty.

It actually does, this counts for "Classic Worlds" too, and to be generous, I won't bother using this against you, but just so you're aware, there are some Special Seeds where Bee Larva spawn on the surface, and Classic Worlds that don't have a Pyramid or any Living Trees [on the surface].

THIS is the context? Equating infinite-repeat RNG to one-time generation is "context"?

If you want a more, direct, 1 to 1 comparison, I provided one above, but the "context" of those examples was to showcase the fact that the Devs are 100% ok with adding missable content to their videogame, invalidating your claim; quote: "Whether you like it or not, the developers have already made sure that most items are available in every world, as I said before."

You're picking on the wording, these "holes in the law", ignoring the point.

Fair enough, this time I gave you 1 to 1 example(s) above, because it seems like implied-consistency and nuance isn't effective enough.

The developers said Moon Lord's Body will be generated in a chest that is generated in a new structure that is generated in the world with only a 10% chance?
Secret seeds, world difficulty, all of that is a different category.

...of what? What are Special Seeds a category of? You never defined what "category" you were suggesting these changes for, because i'd assume this was for all Seed-types and all difficulty-types, am I wrong? Quote [again]: "Whether you like it or not, the developers have already made sure that most items are available in every world, as I said before."

It is exactly NOT supposed to be different from other items. The developers have already done this with other items, I've given examples, and pyramid loot applies to items that are not affected and that's should not be.

No they haven't, which is why I'm calling you out! As far as I know, your suggestion will apply to the only Biome Crate that gives access to Faction Flags and Unique Banners, and additional chance(s) to obtain Sandstorm, bypassing the 1/35 balance changes [because Pharaoh's Mask], in addition to another chance to obtain F.Carpet in a similar manner, bypassing Pyramid's RNG [again, because of Pharaoh's Robe]. Your suggestion is loaded with Pyramid bias, for reasons I assume have to do with a Carpet and Sandstorm exploit, with everything else being a 'cover'.

 

[Shаyd]

Living Trees

Leaf/Livivng Wood Wand: you can get by chopping down trees.
Finch Staff: can be obtained by dropping Living Wood Wand, which as I wrote above is renewable, into Shimmer.
Living Loom: can be purchased from Steampunker when you have, again, Living Wood Wand in your inventory.
As you can see, all of these items are renewable.
Although, it's worth noting, there's actually a bit of an exception here: after looking at the wiki, I realized that minecarts may indeed mostly not be obtainable due to world generation.

there are some Special Seeds where Bee Larva spawn on the surface

Another category.

Classic Worlds that don't have a Pyramid

I don't think I need to comment on that.

or any Living Trees [on the surface]

I'm pretty sure that's not the case. However, it doesn't matter either way for the reasons described above, except for one exception.

...of what?

You never defined what "category" you were suggesting these changes for, because i'd assume this was for all Seed-types and all difficulty-types, am I wrong?

You yourself gave the name of this category.
And it has also already been defined without my participation.
These are classical worlds that can be generated randomly. And don't bring 05162020 and 05162011 here, although technically they can be randomly generated, they don't imply it.

your suggestion will apply to the only Biome Crate that gives access to Faction Flags and Unique Banners

From Sky/Azure Crates you can get cloud blocks, as well as paintings and Eye of the Sun.

bypassing the 1/35 balance changes [because Pharaoh's Mask], in addition to another chance to obtain F.Carpet in a similar manner, bypassing Pyramid's RNG [again, because of Pharaoh's Robe]. Your suggestion is loaded with Pyramid bias

No. My proposal assumes mechanics similar to the original pyramid mechanics, this has been written in previous comments.

Your suggestion is loaded with Pyramid bias, for reasons I assume have to do with a Carpet and Sandstorm exploit, with everything else being a 'cover'

What? Sir, I wrote at the very beginning that my proposal is not so much related to game mechanics and, in fact, the pyramids, but rather a matter of principle: if the developers decided to make items available regardless of world generation, then ALL items should be available regardless of world generation. The pyramids are the first that came to mind, and coincidentally the most striking example.

 

[sunner]

i like the banners, support!

Perhaps Ancient Box should be added, along the lines of Golden Lock Box and Obsidian Lock Box.

sounds neat. maybe you can use golden key to open it, since most of the pyramid items are yellowish

also what kind of argument did i just walk in on-

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

@Shаyd , yeah... [LoL] that's pretty much what I thought. It's not that you didn't understand the comparisons [you did], you were gonna cherry-pick and feint ignorance regardless. In a 1 to 1 comparison [literally, other Biome Crates], you basically have to ignore, jumble, misrepresent, decontextualize, and disregard nearly every point major point, to even pretend your suggestion has any credibility or makes any sense. Yeah, yeah, so as I said before, I think I've made my case.

 

[MurderMitts]

Hold on. Out of all of the vanity sets and half-relevant accessories you could choose to have a debate about, it’s the pyramid loot?

 

[Shаyd]

@Shаyd , yeah... [LoL] that's pretty much what I thought. It's not that you didn't understand the comparisons [you did], you were gonna cherry-pick and feint ignorance regardless. In a 1 to 1 comparison [literally, other Biome Crates], you basically have to ignore, jumble, misrepresent, decontextualize, and disregard nearly every point major point, to even pretend your suggestion has any credibility or makes any sense. Yeah, yeah, so as I said before, I think I've made my case.

Bravissimo. Personal attacks instead of arguments.
In this way you not only prove nothing, you make yourself like a loser and at the same time show yourself in a very bad light.

 

[Shаyd]

Hold on. Out of all of the vanity sets and half-relevant accessories you could choose to have a debate about, it’s the pyramid loot?

?

 

[Shаyd]

maybe you can use golden key to open it, since most of the pyramid items are yellowish

You don't need keys to open the chests inside the pyramids. It's not necessary.

 

[sunner]

You don't need keys to open the chests inside the pyramids. It's not necessary.

yeah but it could be a little balance. golden lock boxes already require golden key, so why not? it'd fit with the rest

 

[trashcanned1 🌳🌳🌳]

that Clentaminator isn't available in/ on Don't Dig Up/ get fixed boi Maps

It's by design, one of the main difficulties aside from the whole world being flipped is the full surface being Corrupted.

 

[DustEevee]

Partial support? Since the Sandstorm in a Bottle is already in the item pool for Oasis and Mirage Crates, I personally don't see a problem with adding the Flying Carpet and the Pharaoh's set into the mix

But for the Pyramid banners, adding them to the item pool as well seems a bit odd to me, maybe they could be made craftable? We do have Ancient Cloth that is solely used to make a vanity set, so I think that could be used for the Pyramid banners. The "regular" colored ones require 3 Silk at a Loom, so I think a similar recipe would work

 

[Shаyd]

maybe they could be made craftable? We do have Ancient Cloth that is solely used to make a vanity set, so I think that could be used for the Pyramid banners. The "regular" colored ones require 3 Silk at a Loom, so I think a similar recipe would work

Hmm. Good idea.

 

[Unit One]

@Shаyd , yeah... [LoL] that's pretty much what I thought. It's not that you didn't understand the comparisons [you did], you were gonna cherry-pick and feint ignorance regardless. In a 1 to 1 comparison [literally, other Biome Crates], you basically have to ignore, jumble, misrepresent, decontextualize, and disregard nearly every point major point, to even pretend your suggestion has any credibility or makes any sense. Yeah, yeah, so as I said before, I think I've made my case.

Bravissimo. Personal attacks instead of arguments.
In this way you not only prove nothing, you make yourself like a loser and at the same time show yourself in a very bad light.

@Toxophilite [East] and @Shаyd neither of these messages are okay here. Going from discussing the suggestion to discussing the person crosses the line, plus the handful of prior messages in this thread between you two have gotten way too heated. I’ll discuss the issue with other forum staff. For the time being, I suggest no further discussion between you two in this thread - the horse is dead.

 

[Glasia🌳]

I think it is a good idea, because then you don't have to make new worlds just to get pyramids, if any, because some worlds do not have pyramids IIRC.