HARDMODE SUCKS?

Tribow

Terrarian
Terraria is great, but throughout the many years I've been playing this game there's one little issue I've begun to notice and it's the one thing keeping this game from being perfect for me.

Hard mode.

Hardmode is the one part of the game that breaks Terraria's flow.

The gameplay loop of Terraria is as follows: Explore > Gather resources > Craft gear > Battle
Then it repeats. It's a super good loop, but once you enter hard mode a step gets removed: exploring.

At first that sounds stupid. Don't you have to explore for the hardmode ore? Isn't there corruption/crimson and hallow that you need go to? What about going back into the dungeon and the temple?

All true, but there's a problem with most of that. You already explored most of these places in pre-hardmode. The environment itself is no longer a threat to your survival since you have gear for flying around and negating fall damage. The biomes can no longer offer you equipment that is worth your time. Yes, there are a plethora of new enemies to encounter and defeat. However, outside of that there is not much new to discover unless it exists in an area of the map you haven't looked at yet.

To find the hardmode ore, most players will just retrace their steps in areas they have already explored to see if there's ore there.
The infected areas of the map may bring you to unexplored locations, but at this point of progression those locations are unlikely to provide anything new outside of an enviornment to fight the hardmode enemies.
The dungeon was likely fully explored in pre-hardmode, so the biome chests have already had their locations revealed. There's nothing new to find there, only something new to fight.
The one exception here is the jungle temple. You cannot enter it in pre-hardmode without some shenanigans. There isn't much to find in there, but it is a place where the environment itself will challenge you. It's a nice buildup towards a boss and the lihzards are enemies that you haven't dealt with anywhere else until that point.

Okay so....what's the big deal? Exploring doesn't net you as many rewards anymore, but there's plenty of new content to play with! There's all of these new enemies, events, and bosses that happen in hardmode.

Well, each step in a gameplay loops feeds off of each other. Exploring and facing the environment feels great because it pays off with allowing you to gather resources and fill up your inventory. Gathering resources and managing inventory feels great because it pays off with allowing you to craft better gear. Crafting gear feels great since it allows you to fight stronger enemies and bosses with much less difficulty. Fighting bosses is great not only because the fight is fun, but once a boss is defeated it usually opens up new avenues to explore.

So lets remove the exploring step, now you're just revisiting areas. How do you gather resources? Ore and fighting. You're no longer charting unknown territory so most of these enemies are just getting in the way of your task. Survival is way easier with the new movement tools you have when revisiting. While cathartic, you're just trying to dig and these pesky enemies keep bothering you. Either that or these pesky enemies aren't dropping the resources you want. For efficiency, you may carve out an area to farm the enemies because it's too much of a hassle to chase these pesky enemies around in tight spaces. Defeating bosses feels great, but now I gotta go to the jungle again? To the dungeon again? To the Jungle again? To the mushroom biome again? (For Duke).

Doesn't this sound like a chore now? This would not happen in pre-hardmode.

Fighting enemies and ore digging is still a part of it, sure, but in pre-hardmode you also find a lot of chests with useful resources. Ores are just the breadcumbs to reward you while you keep moving along. Enemies do still get in your way, but they're not just halting your digging. You gotta fight through them to discover more of the land. It's harder to just run away in pre-hardmode as your movement is more restricted and there's plenty of dead ends since you haven't been digging anywhere yet. You're not just fighting them for resources, you're fighting to survive down there because you may find something super useful and you don't want to go through the rough journey of getting back there if you die.

In hardmode though, death isn't as much of a threat. When you die in one location, you can just shrug and go somewhere else after you respawn. It wasn't that important to be there, you could gather the same resources in another location especially if you're in a large world. (Lowkey this is part of why I like mediumcore playthroughs. It makes the threat of death so much more meaningful in hardmode).

Alright so, that's the problem. What's the solution here? Is hardmode just an inherently inferior experience to pre-hardmode in Terraria? No! Of course not! It's like you get to play a new game+ with a crazy amount of new content. The idea is fantastic. We just need to bring exploration back into the loop.

Right when hardmode starts a bunch of infection spreads right? Make it generate some structures too! The corrution/crimson biomes could have these new shadow/crimson hearts in random locations within the infection that have this tough outer shell. It takes a while to dig through and bombs won't work, but getting inside and blowing up the heart can net you some of those rare drops from the enemies in the area. Speaking of which, you would be fighting them for the right to dig into there. Naturally, sitting in one location to dig will make more enemies surround you. This may sound like a repeat of the problem with the "pesky" enemies, but now you're trying to survive here. You must secure this opportunity since breaking that heart may let you skip hours of farming. You got here because you explored, now we're feeding into the loop again.

For Hallow, there could be a large castle/spire structure that generates on the hallow surface. You can only enter through the bottom. Scattered all over the castle/spire could be rainbow chests that have some useful hallow gear that you would need to grind for otherwise. At the very top there would be multiple chests to reward getting all the way up there. This place could function like the jungle temple where there's tons of traps and idk, maybe there could be locked doors too. Obviously you shouldn't be allowed to dig any of the tiles from this structure until you reach the top. Since this would be a big structure, there's a solid chance it could just absorb a town you built for NPCs. I like the idea that in the event this occurs, your town NPCs could be held hostage in there until you save them.

You know what bothers me? It's the fact that mimics appear in hardmode. Mimics exist solely to exploit a player's excitement when discovering treasure. Yet, they only appear when chests no longer matter! Crimson/Corruption/Hallow chests don't even exist! The only player that would be fooled are ones who have NEVER seen a mimic like that before. So.....what if those chests did exist? Some chests could be generated in the infected biomes when hardmode starts. Just being able to open them sounds a little too easy though, so what if you need the a Key of Night/Light to open them? You could even get these keys from the previous locations I already mentioned.

Honestly there could be a bunch of new chests that generate in hard mode for all biomes. They'll have essentially any item that you would need to farm/grind enemies for, but you gotta find 'em. Maybe they could have hardmode bars too! (I know this makes less sense lore-wise since pre-hardmode chests exist to imply that people have explored the world before you did. But lets just say the mimics wanted an excuse to make you actually want to approach them.) Heck shadow more shadow chests could show up in hell with hardmode hell items just to give that biome SOMETHING for hardmode. besides enemy grinding.

What about the dungeon though? EZ. You know the jungle key right? Well lets have the dungeon generate with a bunch of jungle doors deeper into the dungeon so part of it is locked off until you can beat plantera. There could also be a harder dungeon slime with jungle keys so you don't have to farm Plantera for more keys. There's a more than a solid chance that the biome chests will generate behind those jungle doors so you you're not just retracing steps.

For the jungle.......it would be really funny if the underground jungle just re-does its worldgen after the mech bosses are defeated, but now with chlorophyte. You gotta start that exploration from scratch, but luckily the temple, surface, and pre-existing mini-biomes will remain unaffected. Idk I don't have any good ideas to make the chlorophyte hunt more interesting.

That aside, I feel a change like this would do wonders for hardmode. There's already a good amount of content mods that implement ideas similar to this. Stuff like Calamity, Spirit, and Shadows of Abaddon feature world gen that only happens/is accessible in hardmode. Other mods have been utilizing subworlds to introduce new areas to explore. A great example of this is The Stars Above which has you visiting other planets. It's a shame that vanilla hardmode Terraria is lacking in terms of this aspect. (Although I do think several mods, including the ones I mentioned, still fall into the trap of removing exploration at certain points of progression.)


Personally, I believe that this fault in hardmode is just a symptom of this game getting so much love, support, and content over the years. Many of the hardmode bosses were once the final boss of the game. I doubt hardmode progression was made with exploration in mind because...well that's where the game ended. Now that we're here though I can't help but notice the issue. I don't think hardmode is necessarily "bad" as it's still plenty of fun, but I undoubtedly enjoy pre-hardmode more than I do hardmode because of this little problem.
 
Making hardmode generate giant, jungle-temple sized structures is a great way to kill lower end devices, and possibly erase your bases.

As for mimics, while it's true that you won't be fooled by them in places you've gone before, it is unlikely that you have explored the enteriety of the area that the underground corruption/crimson/hallowed appeared in, meaning you are likely to go over new territory. I should also note that mimics are very easy to not be fooled by.

And again, generating new chests randomly everywhere in the underground again is a bad idea. And the idea of them requiring a light/night key is iffy. Unless the chests give out the biome mimic loot, it will likely be far more valuable to just kill a biome mimic. And also the price for those keys are pretty steep.

You also seem to be assuming people explore like 100% of the underground before hardmode.

That dungeon idea is downright horrific. Due to dungeon chest loot order, certain items may literally be completely unaccessible from being blocked off by doors. But, more importantly, dungeon bricks aren't indestructible like jungle bricks are in pre-hardmode. So you could just... dig around the doors. And given that it's not like you can even unlock the biome chests in pre hardmode there doesn't seem to be... any reason to lock dungeon areas behind doors.
It just seems like a pointless roadblock for the sake of "hardmode exploration", with no actual good reason to do it.

"Lets just re-generate the ENTIRE JUNGLE." ARE YOU NUTS. HERE ARE ALL THE PROBLEMS THIS CREATES:
1. You are re-generating around 1/7th of the world, alongside generating the hallowed castle, and adding a bunch of chests, and if you're on a large world this is going to take a solid like 20 seconds minimum, IF the game doesn't crash.
2. This would destroy any and all underground jungle structures you have created. possibly deleting part of the shimmer.
3. This is literally impossible; there is no possible method to regenerate just the underground jungle, because the entire world generates off a single seed. You would have to find the boundaries of the underground jungle, and then regenerate it all back in the exact same boundary, which is SUPER impossible.

And you know you can just not explore the entire world in pre-hardmode right?
 
[good critique]

And you know you can just not explore the entire world in pre-hardmode right?

To be a bit clear, the jungle part was meant to be a joke because I didn't have an actual idea. Most of that post is just spit-balling ideas so I didn't expect them to be perfect solutions haha.
There are other things I definitely did not make clear.

I'm not assuming people explore 100% of the underground. I don't even do that. Most of the time I only explore around whatever hellavator I dug and that's enough to get what I need. My problem is just that there's not much reason to explore outside of getting ores. Sure, there's definitely tons undiscovered chests by the time you get to hardmode, but they're not going to have hardmode items. There's little reason to open them at that point. A lot of the useful items are dropped from enemies so it's more useful to farm instead of explore. Exploring less of pre-hardmode isn't really a solution.

New chests would help remedy that a bit as they could hold items dropped by those enemies. Now you have the option to farm OR explore, which would be nice. I didn't mean to imply that the amount of chests that generate would be comparable to the amount generated in pre-hardmode. I feel less than half of tthe amount generated at pre-hardmode would be alright for hardmode. That shouldn't hurt the performance and they should be more rare to find as they would contain more rare items.
The only chests that would require the key of night/light would be the biome chests and they would have the mimic loot. You're also right, the keys are pretty rare, which is why I wanted them to a part of the loot you can get from the hardmode structures.

About those structures...
I do think the corruption/crimson idea is fine since those structures wouldn't take up much space and can easily avoid blocks placed by players. However, the hallow idea does have way more issues. Potentially replacing player bases is bad no matter how you slice it. (I do like the idea of saving NPCs though). Converting blocks from worldgen would be best way to make anything new. I guess there could be "Hallow Hearts" to find, but that idea wouldn't be unique to the biome...

The dungeon idea wasn't good either. I was aware of the dungeon's chest generation, which was why I said that the locked doors would only happen farther into dungeon. In my mind, it's entirely possible to make sure the locked doors would happen far enough to guarantee that all golden chest loot is available. I also forgot to write down that the blocks would need to be change to being indestructible until maybe after Golem dies, but regardless of that it doesn't change that there's not much variation with the dungeon to begin with. The roadblock needs to have something actually new behind it or it's as you said: pointless.

I felt the need the need to address all biomes that have hardmode items and do not reward exploration much (i didn't even address them all), but tbh some of them are probably fine as is. The dungeon is mostly fine (I find it a little underwhelming), and the jungle is fine too. You do need to explore for items like the Plantera bulbs and the life fruit (I'm surprised you didn't mention that). My main grievance would be the beginning of hardmode's progression and not the midpoint or tail-end of it. The end is just a big fight anyway, it doesn't need exploration.

I would like to hear if anyone else has ideas for making hardmode exploration a bit more fun.
 
New chests would help remedy that a bit as they could hold items dropped by those enemies. Now you have the option to farm OR explore, which would be nice. I didn't mean to imply that the amount of chests that generate would be comparable to the amount generated in pre-hardmode. I feel less than half of tthe amount generated at pre-hardmode would be alright for hardmode. That shouldn't hurt the performance and they should be more rare to find as they would contain more rare items.
The only chests that would require the key of night/light would be the biome chests and they would have the mimic loot. You're also right, the keys are pretty rare, which is why I wanted them to a part of the loot you can get from the hardmode structures.
Mayhaps these "New chests" could generate pre hard mode and simply just be inaccessible, as they need light/night keys.
 
A giant part of hardmode is seeing familiar areas with a new spin. The corruption(or crimson)/hallow V is a perfect example. That corruption biome on the way to the dungeon is now a fairytale with it's chasms dotted with crystal shards, and that old normal forest that used to be just a cakewalk now has corruptors and world eaters blasting vile spit at you. It's a very nice and fun spin.

The only thing I'd change is post-Plantera progression. You go to the Jungle Temple with the Temple Key closeby, and then to the Dungeon after wanting to see what those screams echoing from it are likely triggering the lunatic cultist. Some padding (for example, adding a dungeon chest you have to unlock to get the temple key there) would help it out a lot, and get new players to try out some of the most fun weapons in the game like the magnet sphere and bat scepter (since pumpkin and frost moon need HM dungeon)
 
I have mixed feelings about exploring, it feels like a chore in early game but the way hardmode “removes” it is not good either. I feel that late pre-hardmode has a good balance with exploring having the underworld and the dungeon.
You know what bothers me? It's the fact that mimics appear in hardmode. Mimics exist solely to exploit a player's excitement when discovering treasure. Yet, they only appear when chests no longer matter!
Thinking about it not only for underground, but inside the dungeon too, mimics could fit quite well in pre-hardmode but their loot would need changes.
 
Part of me wonders if it would be possible to generate chests as projectiles that only temporarily store items and can be interacted with similarly to chester. It probably would be a pretty good start to fixing exploration in hardmode… actually that also sounds feasible to mod in. The only issue is that you couldn’t really emulate this as a player and the chests could vanish if you aren’t careful.
 
...I felt the need the need to address all biomes that have hardmode items and do not reward exploration much (i didn't even address them all), but tbh some of them are probably fine as is. The dungeon is mostly fine (I find it a little underwhelming), and the jungle is fine too. You do need to explore for items like the Plantera bulbs and the life fruit (I'm surprised you didn't mention that). My main grievance would be the beginning of hardmode's progression and not the midpoint or tail-end of it. The end is just a big fight anyway, it doesn't need exploration.

I would like to hear if anyone else has ideas for making hardmode exploration a bit more fun.
I mean, I do think the real answer is kind of obvious. Generate more jungle temple like structures at the start of the world.

One idea that's stuck with me for awhile is the idea of a corruption/crimson core, it would generate deep below the evil biome on the dungeon side of the world, and be made of like, dark ebonstone or thick crimstone that can only be mined with cobalt+ materials. The corruption version would splinter like the roots of a tree while the crimson version would twist around like intestines if you viewed them on a map. At the bottom of the core you would find a great demon altar, from which you could summon the boss of the area. Defeating the boss would give an item that toggle the spread of the evil biomes, among other things. As for the actual details of the area that would be too long. And only the hallow side of the V would generate at the start of hardmode.

Also the empress of light would drop the hallowed spread toggle item.
 
I mean, I do think the real answer is kind of obvious. Generate more jungle temple like structures at the start of the world.

One idea that's stuck with me for awhile is the idea of a corruption/crimson core, it would generate deep below the evil biome on the dungeon side of the world, and be made of like, dark ebonstone or thick crimstone that can only be mined with cobalt+ materials. The corruption version would splinter like the roots of a tree while the crimson version would twist around like intestines if you viewed them on a map. At the bottom of the core you would find a great demon altar, from which you could summon the boss of the area. Defeating the boss would give an item that toggle the spread of the evil biomes, among other things. As for the actual details of the area that would be too long. And only the hallow side of the V would generate at the start of hardmode.

Also the empress of light would drop the hallowed spread toggle item.
I ABSOLUTELY want this.
 
A giant part of hardmode is seeing familiar areas with a new spin. The corruption(or crimson)/hallow V is a perfect example. That corruption biome on the way to the dungeon is now a fairytale with it's chasms dotted with crystal shards, and that old normal forest that used to be just a cakewalk now has corruptors and world eaters blasting vile spit at you. It's a very nice and fun spin.

The only thing I'd change is post-Plantera progression. You go to the Jungle Temple with the Temple Key closeby, and then to the Dungeon after wanting to see what those screams echoing from it are likely triggering the lunatic cultist. Some padding (for example, adding a dungeon chest you have to unlock to get the temple key there) would help it out a lot, and get new players to try out some of the most fun weapons in the game like the magnet sphere and bat scepter (since pumpkin and frost moon need HM dungeon)
This is pretty much my exact thoughts, I like the early Hardmode exploration being the same places, but in a new light. This is a common theme in many videogames after defeating a certain major boss, and is usually done well, Terraria being no exception.
My only big issue with it is how it screws up your biomes with little to no warning but that's a different problem altogether.

I agree with post-Plantera exploration being dull as well outside of the Dungeon changes, it's just an empty and boring jungle temple and then if you do the other post-Plantera and post-Golem content, essentially just a giant boss/event rush.

A few biomes could also honestly deserve to be fleshed out more though as said above, no idea who voluntarily goes to the snow biome in Hardmode outside of picking up Frost Cores for a small handful of items.
Part of me wonders if it would be possible to generate chests as projectiles that only temporarily store items and can be interacted with similarly to chester. It probably would be a pretty good start to fixing exploration in hardmode… actually that also sounds feasible to mod in. The only issue is that you couldn’t really emulate this as a player and the chests could vanish if you aren’t careful.
...Mimics??? I genuinely can't tell if you're making a joke about mimics or if this just happens to be the same idea.
I mean it would at least alleviate the issue of mimics being extremely obvious but I do think that mimics and biome mimics pretty much more or less fill the gap of having no new chests to find.
 
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...Mimics??? I genuinely can't tell if you're making a joke about mimics or if this just happens to be the same idea.
I mean it would at least alleviate the issue of mimics being extremely obvious but I do think that mimics and biome mimics pretty much more or less fill the gap of having no new chests to find.
Basically mimics but non-hostile and with more flexible loot tables, yeah.
 
I mean, I do think the real answer is kind of obvious. Generate more jungle temple like structures at the start of the world.
Yeah. These structures would need ways to restrict access until hardmode though. A lot of my idea hinges on exploring being an alternative option to find hardmode equipment that would otherwise require farming.

Preferably, these structures would be fairly small in size and infrequent so they're not easy to find. I'd say a structure no larger than a marble/granite biome should suffice.
Biome keys could be used to gain access to these structure so a small structure could generate in the desert, jungle, and ice biomes.

Infected hardmode biome structures would be a little weird if they were discoverable pre-hardmode. I stand by the idea that they shouldn't be there until hardmode itself happens. A Hallow structure would be especially strange considering that Hallow doesn't even exist in pre-hardmode, any structure that does generate in hardmode needs to be very very small for performance's sake.

This just leaves the normal Underground and Hell biomes empty. There's no "hell" variant of a key, so maybe there could be a structure surrounded by extra hard hellstone that needs a cobalt+ pickaxe. The Underground could have a similar structure where there's some extra hard stone surrounding areas that contain hardmode loot.
 
This just leaves the normal Underground and Hell biomes empty. There's no "hell" variant of a key, so maybe there could be a structure surrounded by extra hard hellstone that needs a cobalt+ pickaxe. The Underground could have a similar structure where there's some extra hard stone surrounding areas that contain hardmode loot.
Honestly, If we got a LOTR style Lonely Mountain type underground ruins somewhere past the dungeon and below the sea with that premise, I'd really enjoy that. It'd be a nice boost to Early HM's exploration and maybe pad the time between the WoF and Mech Bosses a bit extra
 
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