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In-depth Hardmode weapon tier list

Mathbrush1

Terrarian
That's also probably because a hoard of minions synergises better with kaleidoscope's tag than 1 big dragon does. If you looked at the morning star tests dragon did a bit better than cell but cell closed the gap when kaleidoscope was used.

However keep in mind kaleidoscope is somewhat weak by the time you get the stardust minions, I did some more Empress tests for this thread and phantasm + dragon always outperformed kaleidoscope + cells.

Also in my moonlord tests the shorter range on whips was a very noticeable downside. In my empress tests the only way firecracker + dragon outperformed phantasm + dragon was when using full spooky armor.
I'll admit, when I did Expert and Master Mode summoner, I did all Cell staff with Vortex Beater+Chlorophyte and just kept my distance the entire time (w/ Spooky armor so it still felt like summoner).
 

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
I'll admit, when I did Expert and Master Mode summoner, I did all Cell staff with Vortex Beater+Chlorophyte and just kept my distance the entire time (w/ Spooky armor so it still felt like summoner).
You should use stardust dragon in that build instead. You can right click with the dragon staff to improve dragon's targeting range and hit stuff off screen.

There's nothing wrong with mixing weapons from different classes, in fact the fastest kill time in my moonlrod tests invloved using spooky for a big dragon, supported by a phantasm phase 1, then switching to daybreak phase 2.
 

Coleyohley

Terrarian
There's nothing wrong with mixing weapons from different classes, in fact the fastest kill time in my moonlrod tests invloved using spooky for a big dragon, supported by a phantasm phase 1, then switching to daybreak phase 2.
I support. Mixing weapons of different classes can provide enormous versatility. You may lose out on a bit of potential DPS.

And sometimes that might not even be a DPS loss, sometimes it’s a gain, like the case you mentioned above.
 

Shyguymask

Terrarian
Actually, I'm not sure if I'm buying the whole "Phantasm/Dragon does more damage than Kaleidoscope/Cells" thing. I re-tested Cells with Spooky/3 whips/Betsy with the Cell staff reforged to Ruthless and generally playing more precisely.

1624448410508.png


For the sake of simplicity...

Exactly 127.5% of 98000 (EoL's HP on Expert) is 124950 (EoL's HP on Master). With that in mind, 127.5% of 19 (averaging it a bit) is 24.22.

Qwerty's best EoL kill time on Master (I think?) with what I believe is his Phantasm/Dragon set is 23 seconds.

But here's the thing.

I played with only 6 accessory slots, two of them being Soaring Insignia and Betsy's Wings.

So if I resorted to a mount like Witch Broom (I don't want to do it I'm comfortable with a dash or at least hover), I could add Pygmy Necklace, Summoner Emblem AND Hercule Beetle. I think just the boost from Summoner Emblem in Master mode alone while keeping Soaring/Wings is enough to make Kaleidoscope/Cells on par or surpass Phantasm/Dragon.
 

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
Actually, I'm not sure if I'm buying the whole "Phantasm/Dragon does more damage than Kaleidoscope/Cells" thing. I re-tested Cells with Spooky/3 whips/Betsy with the Cell staff reforged to Ruthless and generally playing more precisely.

View attachment 328374

For the sake of simplicity...

Exactly 127.5% of 98000 (EoL's HP on Expert) is 124950 (EoL's HP on Master). With that in mind, 127.5% of 19 (averaging it a bit) is 24.22.

Qwerty's best EoL kill time on Master (I think?) with what I believe is his Phantasm/Dragon set is 23 seconds.

But here's the thing.

I played with only 6 accessory slots, two of them being Soaring Insignia and Betsy's Wings.

So if I resorted to a mount like Witch Broom (I don't want to do it I'm comfortable with a dash or at least hover), I could add Pygmy Necklace, Summoner Emblem AND Hercule Beetle. I think just the boost from Summoner Emblem in Master mode alone while keeping Soaring/Wings is enough to make Kaleidoscope/Cells on par or surpass Phantasm/Dragon.
Can you test a phantasm/dragon build yourself? Not sure if you should get rid of the scopes or scrolls but I'm leaning toward keeping the scopes since the ranger armor outperformed spooky armor.

When do you start your timer? I start my timer the moment I hear the lacewing go splat. I pause the game and set time to noon, then when Empress dies I look at the in game time.
 

Mathbrush1

Terrarian
Do we need time results of different weapons/setups vs Plantera?
Seems that there is not much info on that matter
I'd like to see every boss done. After seeing EoL and WoF, I did King Slime and Destroyer and am planning on doing Queen Slime, but it would be great to see all bosses and maybe invasions like Pumpkin Moon and Frost Moon.
 

AngryNimbus

Terrarian
Pumpkin Moon and Frost Moon
See my Pumpkin and Frost Moon guide (in signature) if you are able to read this ton of letters and understand my grammar
There are some average numbers.
I did approx. 3 times, but it is impossible to determine precise numbers in this case, because wave chart does not show total score (unless wave 20 FM, 15 PM)
Like Scourge of The corruptor scored Wave 16, 87%, Wave 17 11%, And wave 16 74%. So, I wrote late wave 16 here
Results are for example here, not real
 

Mathbrush1

Terrarian
See my Pumpkin and Frost Moon guide (in signature) if you are able to read this ton of letters and understand my grammar
There are some average numbers.
I did approx. 3 times, but it is impossible to determine precise numbers in this case, because wave chart does not show total score (unless wave 20 FM, 15 PM)
Like Scourge of The corruptor scored Wave 16, 87%, Wave 17 11%, And wave 16 74%. So, I wrote late wave 16 here
Results are for example here, not real
Very fun read, that's exactly what I was looking for! Thanks!
 

Shyguymask

Terrarian
Can you test a phantasm/dragon build yourself?
Not sure if I could do much to bring the timer lower considering Phantasm is just holding down left click. But when I'm bored again I'll try it maybe.

When do you start your timer?

Probably should have considered that myself tbh. I start the timer as soon as I land the first hit on EoL, and end at around the frame the health bar disappears when EoL dies (so like 1-3 frames after the killing blow). With the way you time your kills this would add around exactly 3 seconds to my times, so it comes down to how much witch broom/3 more offensive accessory slots reduces the kill time for Summoner in practice.

EDIT: Wait no I'm dumb, this doesn't affect the actual kill time does it?
 
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qwerty3.14

Terrarian
Probably should have considered that myself tbh. I start the timer as soon as I land the first hit on EoL, and end at around the frame the health bar disappears when EoL dies (so like 1-3 frames after the killing blow)
Ok so I basically start my timer 3 seconds earlier than you do.


I also tested kill times in expert mode with 2 accessory slots used for mobility.
1624501462232.png

At the end I tested in godmode so I could focus on whip stacking, the fastest time there was 22 seconds, subtract 3 seconds and that seems fairly close to your kill time.


The ranged (scopes) cells is the same as the ranged (scopes) test except I used stardust cell staff instead of dragon, it seems that cells do about the same as the dragon for Empress. After this I decided to do another moonlord test.
1624501706804.png

Bottom row is new. It's the same as the PDD spooky build except I used cells instead of a dragon. Unlike in Empress where the minions were fairly close in performance dragon is noticeably better for the moonlord fight.

If I had to guess Empress's constant dashing on and off screen is confusing the dragon, this would also explain why phantasm performed relatively better than the dragon in the Empress fight whereas in the moonlord fight dragon was the dominant weapon.
 

AngryNimbus

Terrarian
Mage is the champion against EoL. 14 second kill, Master mode. Beats Dragon + Harvest + FC (18 sec), Cells, Phantasm.

Mage-loadout-_lunar_.gif
3 segment Dragon is summoned. (Without it, the fight takes from 15 to 15.5 sec)
Arcanum, Blaze, Dragon.gif
 

Shyguymask

Terrarian
The worst thing is that judging by the second phase transition, this seem like something you can just do casually DURING the fight, unlike with chlorophyte arrows vs. Moon Lord where you have to stack em and stuff for like 30 seconds then summon the boss to cheese.

Was Nebula Arcanum the true best weapon this whole time? In Calamity mod that burst damage is like pre-Yharon phase 2 or pre-SCal tier DPS LOL
 

AngryNimbus

Terrarian
The worst thing is that judging by the second phase transition, this seem like something you can just do casually DURING the fight, unlike with chlorophyte arrows vs. Moon Lord where you have to stack em and stuff for like 30 seconds then summon the boss to cheese.

Was Nebula Arcanum the true best weapon this whole time? In Calamity mod that burst damage is like pre-Yharon phase 2 or pre-SCal tier DPS LOL
Tried a bit more, it is possible to lure Empress under the second bunch of arcanum projectiles when she finishes her transition. Time in this case is about 13 sec.
Using Nebula Blaze is almost unnecessary
Phantasm + stealth (vs ML) was used just to give some headstart to Ranger with vortex beater as a main weapon, yeah, a bit cheesy and inapplicable for the remaining fight

Wait... Moon lord, nebula arcanum... I have some thoughts about it


Edit:
Nearly 11 seconds. (2.46 start, 2.57 end)

View attachment about 10 sec.gif



Edit 2:
Plantera, Frost armor, 3 attempts average, Master

Death sickle 61 sec

Chl. Shotbow + holy 38 cec

Ph. Phoenix + holy 44 sec

Ph. Phoenix + ichor 47 sec

True nights edge 44 sec

True Excalibur 46 sec

Megashark + crystal 51 sec

Dart pistol, ichor, close range 39 sec

Dart rifle, ichor, long range 52 sec

Dart pistol, Ichor, long range 51 sec

Uzi, crystal 57 sec

Uzi, endless 77 sec

Super Star Shooter 61 sec

Frost armor. Wings, Shield of Cthulhu, Molten Quiver, Fire gauntlet, Ranger emblem, Warrior emblem ,Avenger emblem. All-Menacing
 
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Soiconcodoc132

Official Terrarian
Tried a bit more, it is possible to lure Empress under the second bunch of arcanum projectiles when she finishes her transition. Time in this case is about 13 sec.
Using Nebula Blaze is almost unnecessary
Phantasm + stealth (vs ML) was used just to give some headstart to Ranger with vortex beater as a main weapon, yeah, a bit cheesy and inapplicable for the remaining fight

Wait... Moon lord, nebula arcanum... I have some thoughts about it


Edit:
Nearly 11 seconds. (2.46 start, 2.57 end)

View attachment 329743



Edit 2:
Plantera, Frost armor, 3 attempts average, Master

Death sickle 61 sec

Chl. Shotbow + holy 38 cec

Ph. Phoenix + holy 44 sec

Ph. Phoenix + ichor 47 sec

True nights edge 44 sec

True Excalibur 46 sec

Megashark + crystal 51 sec

Dart pistol, ichor, close range 39 sec

Dart rifle, ichor, long range 52 sec

Dart pistol, Ichor, long range 51 sec

Uzi, crystal 57 sec

Uzi, endless 77 sec

Super Star Shooter 61 sec

Frost armor. Wings, Shield of Cthulhu, Molten Quiver, Fire gauntlet, Ranger emblem, Warrior emblem ,Avenger emblem. All-Menacing
Actually The Nebula Arcanum is so underated, it does everything exeptionaly well. Shredding every boss into pieces( even better than last prism), dominating invasions and events A bit struggle with moon lord , require you to stay in a small area arround him to work which extremely dangerous. Im very exited to see Arcanum strat vs Moonlord. Blaze is a common choice ,i think its safer but not the best weapon .
 

AngryNimbus

Terrarian
Actually The Nebula Arcanum is so underated, it does everything exeptionaly well. Shredding every boss into pieces( even better than last prism), dominating invasions and events A bit struggle with moon lord , require you to stay in a small area arround him to work which extremely dangerous. Im very exited to see Arcanum strat vs Moonlord. Blaze is a common choice ,i think its safer but not the best weapon .
I'm figuring out how to deal with the arcanum against ML. The only problem remaining – survivability in a confined space. Namely the core phase. As far as I learnt, moving up and down in a 500 block height hellevator as fast as possible kind of working, but full menacing mage has not enough def to deal with this
(soaring insignia + Empress wings ability = up; queen slime mount = down)

Arcanum one-shots top eye as effectively as phantasm + Chlorophyte + shroomite stealth.

Edit:
Results. Nebula arcanum vs ML, Expert mode.
Current result is 34 seconds. 3 deaths, 8 wins. Mana potions are used manually. 3 segment Dragon is summoned.
Spectre-Arcanum-loadout-_menacing_.gif
Arena-screenshot.gif

Arena-map.gif

*ideally you need the bottomless water bucket


Fight example:
4. Nebula Arcanum arena fight.gif



The fight consists of 3 stages.
1. Killing top eye instantly in the small tower (start to cast projectiles 10-12 sec before the fight, and use 300 MP potion once)
2. Defeating hands in the bottom horizontal room (dodge hand contact damage!)
3. Spamming bunches of projectiles in the high tower against ML core.

I switched to cute fishron mount & water due to +15% damage (allowed to wear worm scarf) and high speed


Edit 2:
Master mode. 45 seconds, average of 4 successful tries. (4/8 died)
Arcanum-master-warding.gif

In case if the top eye is not killed, one must return and cast a couple of projectiles in the small tower once more. Arena is the same.

Fight example:

View attachment 7. Master mode Arcanum + Dark artist-spectre.gif

PDD Spooky
  • Phantasm, Daybreak, Stardust dragon staff
  • Full Spooky
  • Betsy's wings, Soaring Insignia, Celestial Shell, Papyrus Scarab, Necrotic Scroll, Avenger Emblem, Destroyer Emblem.
  • All reforged to menacing
Phase 1 I used the phantasm, did so much damage that I one cycled the head! Once phase 2 started I right clicked the core with the stardust dragon staff then switched to the daybreak. This was the highest dps build I found.
It is now #2! 45 seconds vs 48.33! Not the most reliable method, but the fastest!
And the thing that catches my interest the most, the master results are in full Warding set + scarf + brain!
If I improve arena a bit more, I might be able to reforge accessories to damage, and who knows, maybe it is possible to beat 40 seconds with a pre-ML loadout
 
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Shyguymask

Terrarian
Ice Bow and Flying Knife are looking like solid A tier weapons right now.

Why?

Some of you may be aware about the Flying Knife + Yoyo glitch.

Turns out, for some reason, it actually works seamlessly with the Ice Bow as well, and it's the ONLY pre-mech bow it works with for some reason. Later on it works with Phantom Phoenix and Phantasm (more on that later) as well, but that's it. You don't even need autoswing from Feral Claw to make it work, unlike with Yoyos.

This means two things: 1. Flying Knife provides extra damage, especially against multiple enemies and worms. No i-frame issues. 2. Flying Knife can use Ichor Flask to increase Ice Bow's damage.

The armor you'd want to use this with is obviously Frost Armor, and not just because it coincidentally fits thematically. You can achieve over 1000 DPS on grounded targets, especially slow and/or large ones.

There's also Phantasm to consider. Want to use other arrows that aren't Ichor Arrows while still having enemy defense lowered? The answer has arrived at last. I'm planning on making a video about this on my channel in the near future but for now I'll share my knowledge in this thread
 

AngryNimbus

Terrarian
Ice Bow and Flying Knife are looking like solid A tier weapons right now.

Why?

Some of you may be aware about the Flying Knife + Yoyo glitch.

Turns out, for some reason, it actually works seamlessly with the Ice Bow as well, and it's the ONLY pre-mech bow it works with for some reason. Later on it works with Phantom Phoenix and Phantasm (more on that later) as well, but that's it. You don't even need autoswing from Feral Claw to make it work, unlike with Yoyos.

This means two things: 1. Flying Knife provides extra damage, especially against multiple enemies and worms. No i-frame issues. 2. Flying Knife can use Ichor Flask to increase Ice Bow's damage.

The armor you'd want to use this with is obviously Frost Armor, and not just because it coincidentally fits thematically. You can achieve over 1000 DPS on grounded targets, especially slow and/or large ones.

There's also Phantasm to consider. Want to use other arrows that aren't Ichor Arrows while still having enemy defense lowered? The answer has arrived at last. I'm planning on making a video about this on my channel in the near future but for now I'll share my knowledge in this thread
(also works with phantom phoenix and ghastly glavie)

Flying knife glitch.jpg


Everything works
 
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