Dapling
Duke Fishron
Which you can do with any summon weapon and 10x spawnrates with godmode turned on.
Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Leinfors
- Start date
- Status
Technically this doesn't change much because you will go mining Chlorophyte immediately after defeating the mech bosses. All it would change is that the True blades will be available immediately; you can still get lucky and fight a Solar Eclipse, and then Terra Blade will be immediately acquired, especially since you're planning to craft it with presumably one broken hero sword. Chlorophyte would have made sense to be used with Terra Blade, because of the green color, but it's not a post-Golem unlock.
SsIras
Terrarian
I will admit I'm not a fan of the Chlorophyte idea. It seems perfectly fair balance-wise, but it feels off... I would consult with your colleagues about this. Though those seem the best we could do without adding any new items.
I would like to support that by saying that bloody tears should be more common.
Maza
The Destroyer
If it can afford to be earlier, True Night's Edge could remain pre-Plantera being craftable with souls and/or Chlorophyte (It has a green edge); True Excalibur could be post-Plantera, requiring Ectoplasm (It has a blue edge. Maybe the projectile could go through blocks?); Mothron (And thus Terrablade) could be locked behind Golem (Which also puts The Eye of Cthulhu after Kraken).
qwerty3.14
Terrarian
How about you make it to where combining the panic necklace with a shackle makes the magic cuffs. The panic necklace has a 'when you are hit' effect just like the magic cuffs.
Now I realize that as of right now you need a mana regen band to make the cuffs as an intermediate step to make the magic cuffs. However since the mana regen effect is lost upon turning it into magic cuffs I think it would make more sense if you removed that step and let it go straight from band of starpower to cuffs.
Still have the mana regen band as it's own thing though, just have it as an alternative to the cuffs. I don't have a solution on obtaining it on crimson worlds, maybye just make the sweethreart necklace a more worthwhile accesory.
CrabBar
Official Terrarian
Designing a class-neutral item as a replacement for Band of Starpower would have made this so much easier... but alas, gotta work with what we have.
Seeing mundane solutions being unfavorable, I would assume making, say, Dryad sell the item of opposite evil during Blood Moon (or Travelling Merchant after at least one orb/heart was broken) is not going to be an elegant choice either.
And, honestly, there doesn't seem to be a good compromise. Low effort fixes will feel out of place, high effort fixes will be... well, too high effort to spend on that. Unless some fun gimmick is done, sort of like Torch God's event.
The one item that binds both world evils together in pre-Hardmode is Deathweed. Drop an accessory at blooming Deathweed and it will transform in opposite evil one
. With fancy sparkles and all, for maximum fanciness.Situation B:
Terra Blade, True Night's Edge, and True Excalibur are fundamentally difficult to balance as a result of their source and tiering. On paper, they are the exact same tier, because once you get both of them, you can immediately upgrade to Terra Blade. This means that the Terra Blade can't be "as good as it deserves" because its actually the same tier as the True Swords, which limits it. It also means that the True Swords can't be as good as THEY deserve, because you need to reserve "upward mobility" for the Terra Blade. All 3 weapons suffer for it.
But that's not the only problem. Technically speaking, their tier is post-Mech. You can get these weapons as soon as you've beaten the 3 mechs. However, it is HEAVILY RNG locked, with Solar Tablets being locked to just before Golem. This is highly problematic, because if I balance them for post-Mech/pre-Plantera, they aren't strong enough when you are LIKELY to get them. But if I balance them for pre-Golem/post-Golem, then they are WAY too strong if you get them early. So, with that all said!
Goal:
1. Separate the tier of the Terra Blade from the True Swords. The True Swords should be unlocked at an earlier tier than Terra Blade, so that they do not immediately upgrade into it. This allows all 3 weapons to fulfill their own niches and have room to grow and stand on their own.
2. Figure out a solution to the Broken Hero Sword/Eclipse situation, so that the "tier" of the weapon isn't smeared across 2 and a half in-game tiers.
3. Ultimately, Terra Blade should be stronger than it is, but it is difficult to just buff it while it is currently hamstrung by the two issues stated above. Resolving the above two issues will allow me to buff Terra Blade, and probably both of the True Swords as well.
Limitations:
- It is unlikely that a new item will be added to allow for the crafting here
- True Excalibur's unlock must be, at minimum, post-3-mech, but the easier it is to unlock, the less room it has to grow over Excalibur
- The more space put between Terra Blade and the True Swords, the more they can stand apart
- Broken Hero Sword is not going away, but a sufficiently compelling argument could be made to see it moved to a different source. It could theoretically be only used for Terra Blade, and not for the True Swords.
I've done a lot of brainstorming on both of the above and I'm just not satisfied with any of the solutions we've come up with. Most of them have logistical issues that either make them ineffective at accomplishing the intended purpose, or mean they are likely to be turned down by Redigit.
I'm interested in any ideas you guys have to offer.
I did enjoy the argument of putting the Broken Hero Sword as Terra Blade exclusive material. Makes it stand apart from True Swords quite a bit and also makes you only use a single broken sword instead of 2 (which currently is rather... weird).
However, as it stands, Broken Hero Sword itself is rather mundane (yet random) drop from Mothron, if you do get an Eclipse ongoing. Also, it mildly obstructs non-melee player inventories, even if it is sold for fairly good cash.
Making it a 100% drop upon killing only first Mothron? Eh, that way a single player cannot really create multiple copies or Terra Toilets
, and putting checks ("does the player already have Terra Blade?") is rather unreliable.The idea I had is to make Mothron to drop Broken Sword only if it was finished by one of two True Swords. It may be rather too obscure for the players, but that will add some flavor to getting the Broken Hero Sword (as being avenged by the "worthy" successor).
Of course, there could be variations: Mothron being first damaged by first sword and finished by second one (which is even more obscure but ensures you are ready for Terra Blade), choosing an enemy that is not Mothron for that task, etc.
There is no serious need to add anything else to Terra Blade recipe btw. Both True swords and Broken Hero Sword is as iconic and simple as it could get, other materials will take away from the glory. But, obviously with that treatment Broken Hero Sword will have to become post-Plantera (and so will Mothron if it stays as the target enemy)
One important thing that has to be noted is, as we move Terra Blade at Post-Plantera tier, it becomes even closer to Influx Waver, which tends to overshadow it quite a bit as being easier to obtain and more powerful. Not sure how much this affects things but there may be actions required to prevent worsening this situation.
True swords crafting recipes are addressed with the quote below in mind:
Aesthetically, True Night's Edge looks exactly like a sword to be upgraded by Chlorophyte, and True Excalibur is the opposite for that, which is rather unfortunate.
And, well, there isn't too big of a gap between 3 souls and chlorophyte... although does there have to be? Maybe, since Night's Edge in current state is a lot more costly investment-wise than Excalibur.
Additional trouble is that there are no ways to lock those swords behind exactly post-3-mechs tier other than all 3 mech souls and chlorophyte. Solar Eclipse is still random.
Imho, True Night's Edge being crafted with chlorophyte and Souls of Night is pretty decent
True Excalibur may need more complex recipe: 3 mech souls, Souls of Light, maybe a few fairies (?) and holy water, but I can't quite think of anything else to add without being out of place. Last resort would be to return to the roots of 1.1 hallowed gear and grab hardmode ore swords along the way (or individual ones, likely Beam Sword?).
As for distraction/symmetry break, it should be okay if it's balanced asymmetry (just like in architecture, heh). Night's Edge is a lot of effort to get, True Night's Edge isn't; as an opposite, Excalibur isn't hard to get, True Excalibur is.
That will make Terra Blade clash with Influx Waver (and also Flying Dragon) heavily. Also, the phasing projectile of True Excalibur will likely not be transferred to the Terra Blade, making it a bizarre feature. And finally, Mothron being in the post-Golem territory will mean 4th Solar Eclipse tier, which is probably excessive.
If not for that, it could have been a pretty decent solution I guess, especially with moving TEoC along the way.
1. Improved Graveyard crafting or improved "Drunk world" seed to contain all items. These two already make it so close to having one world for one character, perfect for a Journey mode Research playthrough!
2. Give the Steampunker in the Graveyard the Solution for the alternate evil. Dryad can do it, and so should the Steampunker at some point.
3. Late/endgame Biome control. Anything that improves upon the outdated mid-Hardmode Clentaminator, please! Hellevator-ing the world is tedious and ruins the world. Biome spread late game isn't even a challenge anyway.
4. Check some of the new Master mode drop rates, they're obscenely low. Stellar Tune for example could have been one of EoL's drops with equal chance to get it. Of older items, Frozen Shell and Rod of Discord...
5. Yoyos pretty much overshadow (at least in general versatility, which counts a lot in Master mode) all other weapons till post-Golem.
6. Merchant rarity RNG, at least improve it in Expert and Master modes.
7. Some mini-bosses can spawn literally the moment you kill the current one, ala Martian Saucer.
8. Some accessories are still useless, ala Fire Gauntlet (and so are some weapons, ala Terrablade vs Influx Waver).
9. Revert to old "every accessory can be in a Vanity slot". It frees up inventory, and allows for quick gear/playstyle change. In fact, a lot of games for decades now have a gear swap functionality anyway. Add a cooldown if neccessary.
10. For no hit runs, NPCs should also drop a Tombstone, not just for Hardcore characters. Or for "nobody dies" runs, allow some form of making a Tombstone, maybe from a Boss' relics or something? Basically, if no one dies, no Graveyard. Same goes for NPC drops. Taxman is a good candidate for selling Tombstones. Or Skeleton Merchant. Or bones + blocks.
11. Apparently Journey mode with Master difficulty in "For the worthy" seed has tougher scaling than the regular Master Mode difficulty in the same seed. Which makes Journey+Master+FtW actually the hardest possible challenge for reasons yet to be explained to community.
12. Add some missing items in fishing Crates. Best examples are Pyramid loot not being in any Crate, or the Blowpipe, or the Sharpening station.
13. Master mode should generally behave like "For the worthy" seed does. Current mindset of just inflating numbers becomes progressively more tedious than challenging the more you play.
PS: With Torch Luck in game, Clentaminator maybe should change torches to Biome appropriate ones. Or if something stronger comes along, that should do it too. Manually replacing leftover torches ain't much fun.
2. Give the Steampunker in the Graveyard the Solution for the alternate evil. Dryad can do it, and so should the Steampunker at some point.
3. Late/endgame Biome control. Anything that improves upon the outdated mid-Hardmode Clentaminator, please! Hellevator-ing the world is tedious and ruins the world. Biome spread late game isn't even a challenge anyway.
4. Check some of the new Master mode drop rates, they're obscenely low. Stellar Tune for example could have been one of EoL's drops with equal chance to get it. Of older items, Frozen Shell and Rod of Discord...
5. Yoyos pretty much overshadow (at least in general versatility, which counts a lot in Master mode) all other weapons till post-Golem.
6. Merchant rarity RNG, at least improve it in Expert and Master modes.
7. Some mini-bosses can spawn literally the moment you kill the current one, ala Martian Saucer.
8. Some accessories are still useless, ala Fire Gauntlet (and so are some weapons, ala Terrablade vs Influx Waver).
9. Revert to old "every accessory can be in a Vanity slot". It frees up inventory, and allows for quick gear/playstyle change. In fact, a lot of games for decades now have a gear swap functionality anyway. Add a cooldown if neccessary.
10. For no hit runs, NPCs should also drop a Tombstone, not just for Hardcore characters. Or for "nobody dies" runs, allow some form of making a Tombstone, maybe from a Boss' relics or something? Basically, if no one dies, no Graveyard. Same goes for NPC drops. Taxman is a good candidate for selling Tombstones. Or Skeleton Merchant. Or bones + blocks.
11. Apparently Journey mode with Master difficulty in "For the worthy" seed has tougher scaling than the regular Master Mode difficulty in the same seed. Which makes Journey+Master+FtW actually the hardest possible challenge for reasons yet to be explained to community.
12. Add some missing items in fishing Crates. Best examples are Pyramid loot not being in any Crate, or the Blowpipe, or the Sharpening station.
13. Master mode should generally behave like "For the worthy" seed does. Current mindset of just inflating numbers becomes progressively more tedious than challenging the more you play.
PS: With Torch Luck in game, Clentaminator maybe should change torches to Biome appropriate ones. Or if something stronger comes along, that should do it too. Manually replacing leftover torches ain't much fun.
Last edited:
qwerty3.14
Terrarian
But you spend the entirety of your pre-hardmode and early hardmode gathering resources for the Terra Blade. Why should it be overshadowed by a literal boss item drop you can kill in less than a minute?
qwerty3.14
Terrarian
Because all that stuff is pre-plantera while martian madness is post golem. I almost never make the night's edge prehardmode and If I stumble upon 2 broken hero swords I can get whatever missing ingredients I need in minutes.
You get an achievement for acquiring the Terra Blade; the item is outclassed by some non-final boss drop. Plus you can only toggle solar eclipses after Golem. Terra Blade needs to justify the hassle it takes you to craft it. Or make a true version of the blade, but that's not coming any time soon.
Justerbate
Terrarian
Perhaps you could add band of starpower/panic necklace to the opposite bosses drop pool, so EoW drops the panic necklace and BoC could drop the band.
For the terra blade, I really like the idea of having a sword from early game that you upgrade and enhance through your journey. So what if each sword was an enhancement/progression of the same sword.
Nights edge->true nights edge->excalibur->true excalibur->terra blade. You can lock each behind whatever materials are only available at the point in which you want each sword to be tiered at. Nights edge is good where its at, true nights edge may be immediately available upon entering hardmode with souls of night or dark shards. Excalibur could be souls of light and hallowed bars. True excalibur could be post plantera with ecto, and make the broken hero sword drop post golem or include it earlier in the crafting line
For the terra blade, I really like the idea of having a sword from early game that you upgrade and enhance through your journey. So what if each sword was an enhancement/progression of the same sword.
Nights edge->true nights edge->excalibur->true excalibur->terra blade. You can lock each behind whatever materials are only available at the point in which you want each sword to be tiered at. Nights edge is good where its at, true nights edge may be immediately available upon entering hardmode with souls of night or dark shards. Excalibur could be souls of light and hallowed bars. True excalibur could be post plantera with ecto, and make the broken hero sword drop post golem or include it earlier in the crafting line
qwerty3.14
Terrarian
It should be outclased, it's a mid hardmode weapon, and a pretty good one I might add. It'd be too overpowered if it was on par with the late pre moonlord weapons.
Solar tablets aren't post golem they are found in the jungle temple but don't require golem to be defeated, you can even get them pre plantera if you want by hoiking through the door.
In that case you're abusing a glitch and progression skipping. The Terra Blade should either be on par with Influx Waver, or be given an upgrade to make it the penultimate weapon you use (as melee, at least) to fight the final challenge.
qwerty3.14
Terrarian
Well you can obtain the terra blade glitchless pre plantera... you just need to be lucky and have a solar eclipse spawn naturally.
Although the influx waiver is better in most situcations, the terra balde does manage to find a few situations where it can perform better, primarily if your can get multiple enemeis in a straight line and get the blade itself involved.
Again it's in an earlier tier, and mothron's are a much easier miniboss than the martian saucers.
Yes, but it is quite rare that you obtain a solar eclipse that fast. Influx waver is undoubtedly better than Terra Blade, even against multiple opponents.
qwerty3.14
Terrarian
yes... just because something is rare that doesn't mean it should outclass weapons of a later tier.
The terra blade is faster than the influx waiver to the point where if you can reliable hit multiple targets it will actually do more dps.
The tera blade may be weaker than the influx waiver in most situation but it is still one of the strongest pre plantera weapons.
reinaXIX
Terrarian
Are the Corruptor, Icy Merman, and Gastropod banners working properly? I'm on Journey-Master Mode, and my defense of 77 should be the same for all of the following.
With them in place I get hurt more by an Icy Mer-spit (222 base according to the wiki, roughly 7 or so hearts) than I do a banner'd Corrupt Mimic (270 wiki, about 4-4.5 hearts) body touch. Banner'd Gastropod laser (150 wiki, 3-4 hearts). Corruptor's spit does 4-5 hearts (spit damage isn't listed on the wiki, though it says it does "much more damage" than the 180 listed, it's 5-6 hearts, and I am immune to the weak debuff.)
With them in place I get hurt more by an Icy Mer-spit (222 base according to the wiki, roughly 7 or so hearts) than I do a banner'd Corrupt Mimic (270 wiki, about 4-4.5 hearts) body touch. Banner'd Gastropod laser (150 wiki, 3-4 hearts). Corruptor's spit does 4-5 hearts (spit damage isn't listed on the wiki, though it says it does "much more damage" than the 180 listed, it's 5-6 hearts, and I am immune to the weak debuff.)
sharkman0101
Spazmatism
Projectiles fired by enemies ignore the damage reduction applied by banners. I believe this is due to how projectiles are coded as separate entities and are not covered by their specific banners.
Furthermore, this is not an easy issue to fix since various enemies share similar projectiles and, incidentally, the projectile ID. Banners, as a result, have been coded to only affect contact damage because it's an issue that is too difficult to fix.
Zario777
Terrarian
In response to Situation A, make the Band of Starpower craftable from a Panic Necklace + Mana Crystal at a Tinkerer's Workshop (And the Panic Necklace crafted from a Band of Starpower + Heart Crystal). This makes them slightly more work to get since you'd need to beat a Goblin Invasion, but still obtainable before any boss.
----------------------------------------------------------
In response to Situation B, I have two ideas for the True Swords:
1) Keep the True Swords' recipes the same, but make Broken Hero Swords drop from Frankenstein & Swamp Thing again (but still only after 3-Mechs), while increasing the chance of the first Solar Eclipse happening after 3-Mechs have been defeated. The stat differences they have could be balanced as a preference like the Chlorophyte Claymore vs the Saber is supposed to be. This should make them more common to obtain.
2) The above solution, but only for the True Excalibur (Since it's a Broken HERO Sword). Have the True Night's Edge be crafted with Souls of Fright, Might, Night, & Dark Shards, having its "True" nature come from the dark sources of Hardmode. You mentioned that the True Night's Edge can afford to be obtained earlier, so this would have it obtained after TWO mech bosses instead of 3, and come after Excalibur. True Excalibur could be buffed as a result of coming later.
Regardless of the options listed above, I would keep the Terra Blade's crafting as it is now, but have require using the Autohammer instead of the Anvil. This would push it to immediately post-Plantera, and therefore would allow it to be buffed to outpace its predecessors.
----------------------------------------------------------
In response to Situation B, I have two ideas for the True Swords:
1) Keep the True Swords' recipes the same, but make Broken Hero Swords drop from Frankenstein & Swamp Thing again (but still only after 3-Mechs), while increasing the chance of the first Solar Eclipse happening after 3-Mechs have been defeated. The stat differences they have could be balanced as a preference like the Chlorophyte Claymore vs the Saber is supposed to be. This should make them more common to obtain.
2) The above solution, but only for the True Excalibur (Since it's a Broken HERO Sword). Have the True Night's Edge be crafted with Souls of Fright, Might, Night, & Dark Shards, having its "True" nature come from the dark sources of Hardmode. You mentioned that the True Night's Edge can afford to be obtained earlier, so this would have it obtained after TWO mech bosses instead of 3, and come after Excalibur. True Excalibur could be buffed as a result of coming later.
Regardless of the options listed above, I would keep the Terra Blade's crafting as it is now, but have require using the Autohammer instead of the Anvil. This would push it to immediately post-Plantera, and therefore would allow it to be buffed to outpace its predecessors.
- Status