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Important Rule Changes Regarding Suggestion Forum Behavior, Update as of August 28th!

Discussion in 'Player Suggestions' started by Leinfors, Jan 11, 2015.

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  1. Leinfors

    Leinfors Quality Assurance Staff Member Moderator Re-Logic

    Good Afternoon everyone!
    So its been a few months, everyone seems to have settled in here on the forums as well as here in the Suggestion section. It feels like most of the crosspost suggestions from TO have been completed, and its getting into a more regular groove here . . . thus we feel this would be a good time to address some of our concerns in a more formal manner.

    One of the biggest changes we hoped to accomplish when we made the move from TO to TCF was to improve the quality of the forum decorum and respectful behavior towards each other. And overall, we have made significant strides in that regard. However, the Suggestions section still has a lot of lingering hostility and negativity that we've seen far too often - both on TO and here. Frankly, there are still quite a few threads where people are posting excessive amounts of insults, disrespect, and snarky/sarcastic insults towards suggestions, and it is time steps were taken to address it.

    With that in mind, we are going to be implementing a new standard of expectations when posting in the Suggestions section, which will go into effect on the 20th of January. These will be added to the Suggestion section rules, and of course, the global Terraria forum rules always apply.

    It would be impossible to detail the exact specifics of what we will be considering poor posting etiquette because it is such a broad area, so I will be detailing a number of examples and types of posting that we will be discouraging moving forward. Additionally, you will be able to discuss the new rules or ask questions about them here: http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/suggestion-forum-rules-section.9303/ Please post there if you have any comments or uncertainty about what these rules will mean.

    - Trollish or meme-like rejections = There are an abundance of threads which are inundated with content-less negative comments like "nopenopenopenope" or "Just no". This kind of negative dismissal indicates one thing to me: that you aren't interested enough to post constructive feedback, but - for some reason - you still want to get in some sort of jab at the poster to express your displeasure. Even if you continue on to give feedback, there is no need for this kind of curt expression of disrespect. If you don't like a suggestion, say why. Say "I don't like this suggestion, because-" while taking care to be respectful of the person making the suggestion.

    - Sarcastic remarks, snarky insults, and personal attacks = There is a unsettled trend where unpopular suggestions seem to gain a sort of unfriendly momentum, and posters move past rejection and begin to attack and belittle the creator of the thread. At no point are personal attacks on these forums ever welcome. Making snide or sarcastic comments out of an intent to shame the poster in order to express just how much distaste you have for a suggestion just isn't necessary. Remember; you don't have to post. If you do post, you are expected to post constructive content without breaking forum rules. Accusing "bad" suggestions of being joke suggestions seems to be a new trend along this line. Just because you find a suggestion unrealistic, consider that you have probably read about dozens, if not hundreds of different suggestions. The person making the post may not have that level of experience, so they do not realize how unrealistic their idea is . . . calling it a "joke" suggestion just isn't necessary.

    - Excessive insults targeting towards the suggestion
    = Sometimes, a suggestion rolls around that really is just bad. This doesn't grant you permission to start tearing it down as brutally as possible. Phrases like "this suggestion is worthless/pointless" or "worst suggestion ever" or "worst idea I've ever seen" help nothing and noone - and thus really have no place here. There is also see abuse of the word "unoriginal" . . . while its not going to be against the rules to use it, try to think of more eloquent, constructive ways of saying it. To someone new to these forums, they may not necessarily know that certain things have been suggested in many forms before. Rather than tear them down, consider politely directing them towards those previous suggestions.

    - Getting into excessive, heated flame-wars over suggestions = We get it. The poster of the suggestion has one opinion, you have another. The two of you just can't seem to convince each other, no matter what you say. But you know what? There is no need for you two to fight, because suggestions will be judged on their merits by the Relogic Staff, not based on the outcome over your internet war. This goes for the suggestion poster as well as those providing feedback - this only serves to land both parties in trouble more often than not. You don't need to fight until the other side backs down. Express your concerns over the suggestion, elaborate some if needed, and then move on. The issues you raise will be seen and considered by those who ultimately make the final decision!

    Admittedly, this is just the tip of the iceberg. The issues are a lot more pervasive than this, and its going to take time for people to learn what we will be allowing moving forward. Because we want people to have time to learn what the new standards of posting will be, this will not be going into effect until the 20th. From now until then, I will be spending a lot of time in the section, and when I find posts or suggestions which have gotten derailed into unpleasant hate fests, I will be reminding people of the new rules and why the posts within are an issue, rather than handing out warnings. Posts made before the 20th will not be subject to possible moderator action based on the new rules - because, as I said, this is a change long in coming and we want to give people time to adapt.

    One additional change: moving forward, and in this section only, we are going to try using alternative forms of penalties, rather than relying primarily on warning points. We have the ability to create thread bans, and even temporary or permanent sectional bans. The suggestion section seems to bring out a negative side for some people, and while we can't allow the sort of posting that is currently an issue, we don't want these people to end up receiving site-wide bans as a result of this section. To that end, consistent misbehavior in this section will ultimately culminate in temp/permanent sectional bans with a smaller number of warning points, rather than giving excessive amounts of points for recurring problem posters. We consider this a more lenient and less penalizing alternative to site-wide bans, and it still allows people to access and contribute to the majority of this forum.

    It seems that a lot of posters have either gotten far too impatient with suggestions, or that they've lost sight of the point of this section. This section exists so that people can propose suggestions for possible implementation into the game, and in the mean time, receive feedback on how to improve the suggestion for maximum impact. Remember that nobody is perfect, and that everyone has to be new sometime. Try to be a little more patient with those newer posters . . . and if you just can't, then refrain from posting at all.

    Insults and hostility never did anyone any good at all, and it sets a negative tone for newer posters to follow. We want this section, along with the forum as a whole, to be a pleasant place to be, where people can share their ideas without fear of insult or attack. We can't do that unless everyone works together to make this a more friendly and cooperative place.

    Again, if you have any questions, comments, concerns or wish any clarification, just post here and we can discuss it at your leisure: http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/suggestion-forum-rules-section.9303/

    Thanks for your time!
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2015
    Laluzi, Jon Smitten, JakeZz and 84 others like this.
  2. Leinfors

    Leinfors Quality Assurance Staff Member Moderator Re-Logic

    Adding a new rule to this, something I've seen a bit too much lately:

    Calling out a suggestion for being a duplicate = We get it, sometimes people make a suggestion which has been made before. Or sometimes its a similar idea, but not quite the same. Whatever the case, this isn't part of the valid criticism of a suggestion, and the moderator team's stance on what is and is not a duplicate is very lenient. As a result of this, it is very unusual that we will close a duplicate topic, and quite often, I see threads where people dismiss the idea for being a duplicate, when in actuality, I disagree with that. Moving forward, if you see a suggestion you feel is a duplicate, REPORT it and say nothing in the thread. If you do not wish to report it, then keep the criticism to yourself. We will be the judge of what is or is not a duplicate suggestion, and dismissive comments to the extent of "this is a duplicate" or "you should have searched before you posted this" will not be acceptable criticism at this point, because it is not the call of normal forum members to make (again, REPORT if you have an issue).

    Additionally, in response to threads sharing similar subject matter, the linking of these OTHER threads unsolicited is, and has always been, frowned upon. If someone makes a suggestion and your only response is to link a similar one, or to say "This one is better, etc", then you have not given a fair chance to the new thread. It should go without saying that unwanted thread advertising is not okay anywhere on the forums, even if you aren't advertising your own thread.

    Again guys, please, just be nice and give every suggestion a fair chance. If you can't be nice, then don't post. This isn't to say you can't give harsh criticism, but it should never be to the extent of rejecting an idea outright for reasons like being a "duplicate thread". No poster is more privileged than any other here, no one's suggestions are more special. The vast majority (99+%) of suggestions will never be seen in game, there is no reason to get up in arms or hurt another person's feelings in this section.
     
  3. Leinfors

    Leinfors Quality Assurance Staff Member Moderator Re-Logic

    Just a note; the release of 1.3 has been very busy, and has brought in thousands of new members, with many being unfamiliar with our rules. I'll be buckling down on Suggestion constructiveness expectations in the coming days, so if you haven't read the rules yet or recently, I recommend reading them now.

    There may be some seeming contradiction in what is acted on versus what was not in the past month; this is only due to lack of knowledge of the posting in question, and moving forward, some rudeness which has gone relatively unchecked will be being addressed.
     
    Fruitbat, JakeZz, Snowflake71 and 4 others like this.
  4. Leinfors

    Leinfors Quality Assurance Staff Member Moderator Re-Logic

    Hello everyone!

    Over the past two weeks or so I've been upping the supervision of the Suggestions section, and have been developing a more official system for handling bans from the Suggestions Section. This is coming about as a realization that my previous method (in which I primarily spear-headed the majority of Suggestions moderation) left a lack of structure and way to communicate member status in the section to the other mods. This is designed to be a simpler, easier to record and measure method of handling Suggestion infractions, by moving to something closer to the normal warning point system.

    Moving forward, there will be a 3 strikes policy for temporary bans from the section. A "strike" in this case, more or less synonymous with a Suggestion specific warning, is incurred any time official account action is taken on a user for Suggestion related misbehavior, including thread bans and warning points. This does not include verbal warnings, either in thread or via PM, and the moderator has discretion whether or not to count a warning as a strike if they so wish.

    1 strike will expire every 4 months after a user's most recent Suggestion related warning; they do not expire concurrently, and getting a new one will reset the expiration timer. Thus, 2 strikes would take 8 months total to expire. Should a user receive 3 strikes, they will be given a 1-month temporary ban from the Suggestion. Should the account action also include a general forum temporary ban, the Suggestion ban will not begin until their universal temporary ban has expired (ex: if a user gets 1 month sectional ban and 1 month forum ban at the same time; the sectional ban will expire 2 months later).

    Upon return from a temporary ban, the user is put on a sort of probation for one month; during this time, any strikes (a 4th strike) will result in an immediate permanent ban from the Suggestion section. However, should they uphold proper forum behavior for one month, their 3rd strike will expire early, placing them back at 2 strikes and subject to normal strike expiry, etc. If at any time a user reaches their 3rd 1-month ban, it will become a permanent sectional ban.

    We will generally inform users of their strike status at the 2nd strike or later, but part of the information process is this visible rule amendment; previously, this was played very much by ear. Users can PM us at any time to inquire about their current strike/temp ban status, as we don't have a way to display this via profile the way warnings are.

    Please take any and all feedback, questions, or requests for clarification on the matter to this thread: http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...s-open-discussion-feedback-august-28th.32301/
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2015
    JakeZz, Snowflake71, Eli10293 and 3 others like this.
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