Game Mechanics The issue with "vanity"

A

Aceplante

Official Terrarian
As I have stated in other threads, I do not support "vanity" as a mechanic. It allows you to unfairly hide your true armor, which maybe is okay in singleplayer since the only player you're harming is yourself, but cheesy and unfair when it comes to multiplayer. If you want to wear a vanity set you can do that, but it should NOT be used to hide your real armor. This issue would be made even worse if we allowed players to have a "vanity weapon" over his real one as several people have suggested recently.

If that wasn't bad enough, these "vanity" slots can also be used to store extra accessories allowing you to effectively carry double for free. The old system, at the very least, limited you to accessories that had actually had a vanity sprite, which I suppose was okay, since they were worn over your existing armor and didn't actually hide it.

In a perfect world, the obvious solution is to just remove "vanity" slots, but it may be too late to do that without angering many players (such as the ones that are sure to defend this mechanic tooth and nail under this post. Edit: I was right). Either way, a solution to this issue needs to be addressed.

Either add a toggle clientside to always hide vanity, or a new goggles item that "allows you to see a player's true armor" (aka hides it for you), perhaps Truesight Goggles (as described in that post)?

Edit: the main feedback I seem to be getting is that this is a minor/non-issue that doesn't need changing. I disagree, hence this suggestion. Luckily, both of these suggestions (whether it was implemented as an option or an in-game item) are optional, and you are more than welcome to not use them.

Edit 2: One comment suggested this perhaps could only apply when pvp is enabled, the toggle next to your "team" when in multiplayer?
 
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Who is this harming in singleplayer? Who is this harming at all? Are you deceiving the bosses by wearing wooden armor so they don't go so hard on you? I'm not sure how a PURELY COSMETIC mechanic could possibly be bad for the game. In multiplayer when people "hide" their armor it would likely not be with malicious intent it is just "I wanna look cool". I cannot possibly see any scenario outside of PvP maybe where wearing vanity is bad. Is building a base bad? Showing creativity through unique looks? What exactly is unfair about wearing vanity?
 
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This is just creating a solution to a Non-Existent problem. I don't do PvP that much, but figuring out what armor someone is using doesn't matter that much. Neither does the weapon sprite since you can see how it attacks. Also, having extra inventory slots is fine. Inventory management isn't really a problem except in the early game, and even then, most of the stuff in your inventory isn't an equippable.
 
Heath04🌳 said:
Who is this harming in singleplayer? Who is this harming at all? Are you deceiving the bosses by wearing wooden armor so they don't go so hard on you? I'm not sure how a PURELY COSMETIC mechanic could possibly be bad for the game. In multiplayer when people "hide" their armor it would likely not be with malicious intent it is just "I wanna look cool". I cannot possibly see any scenario outside of PvP maybe where wearing vanity is bad. Is building a base bad? Showing creativity through unique looks? What exactly is unfair about wearing vanity.
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As mentioned, I suppose this is okay in singleplayer, where hiding your armor doesn't really effect anything. But the point is, you're still hiding your armor, which doesn't make sense. Why is that even a mechanic?
 
Aceplante said:
As mentioned, I suppose this is okay in singleplayer, where hiding your armor doesn't really effect anything. But the point is, you're still hiding your armor, which doesn't make sense. Why is that even a mechanic?
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Because people want to look cool? People wanna have unique looks that aren't tied to whatever armor their wearing? Simply for fun?
 
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Heath04🌳 said:
Because people want to look cool? People wanna have unique looks that aren't tied to whatever armor their wearing. Simply for fun.
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I do not think this should be a thing. You can always wear it instead of your armor, but it should not be both, and also hiding your armor in the process.
Orchamut said:
You can just... not use the vanity slots..
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How does that help me see the true armor of other players? If I do, that simply puts me at a self imposed disadvantage
 
Talking as someone who actually played pvp for several years in the past, your vanity slots don’t matter because if the armor your opponent’s wearing is hidden it falls into one of two categories:

A) it’s not impactful enough to matter when trying to counterplay it (most armors in the game)
B) it has some kind of visual effect like Stealth (vortex and shroomite) dusts (crimson or any regen armor with shiny stone (shiny stone is an extremely important item in pvp when coupled with stealth)), or even a floating sprite (beetle, solar flare, stardust, forbidden armor) which immediately lets you know what armor they’re using.

I don’t believe that you’ve actually played pvp before at a high level due to this, and as a result I can’t really support this suggestion in good faith.
 
Aceplante said:
I do not think this should be a thing. You can always wear it instead of your armor, but it should not be both, and also hiding your armor in the process.
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Looking at single player for a second; why is this an issue? It is literally so player-friendly. If this suggestion were to ever take into place, it’ll be a very controversial decision. I gotta agree with the merit of the whole thing being a non-issue because I genuinely do not see this being an issue in single player.
 
Aceplante said:
I do not think this should be a thing. You can always wear it instead of your armor, but it should not be both, and also hiding your armor in the process.
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Why not? I haven't done much Terraria PvP so my experience is limited but I can't imagine knowing what armor your opponent is wearing comes up often and in any case imposing disadvantage onto you for not knowing. Even if it does, this is such an extreme reaction to you being outplayed in PvP, why do you wanna target vanity in its entirety when the core issue is just with PvP.
 
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Player self-expression is one of the game's strongest elements, whether that's through how you choose to fight enemies, how you build your base, or how you customize your character, vanity included. This suggestion takes away an enormous element of the game, in exchange for the infinitesimally small benefit of seeing the true equipment someone else is wearing in an extremely unpolished, unfinished, broken gamemode.

I'm with Dapling on this one: I frankly do not believe you have any significant experience with PvP, or you would realize that this situation is about as far as it is possible for it to be from the issue you claim it is.

If it isn't clear already, the suggestion to remove vanity as a concept is atrocious, perhaps the single-worst idea I have seen on the entire forum. The downsides are catastrophic to a major part of the game's appeal and the upsides are close to nonexistent.

EDIT: I am inclined to believe this post is bait; if so, I must admit that I've been had.
 
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Ignoring everything above already said, I used to play on Pedguin's server which had PVP and this was never an issue. Everyone used a plugin account and was on medium core, meaning you had to sign in, get a ton of debuffs (like stoned from medua) until you trashed your copper tools or any other items, joined the game, lost and died/won and then died after from a after game clear check, and went back to copper tools and repeat. There were 0 issues that I know of with that system. I cannot support this
 
Coleyohley said:
Player self-expression is one of the game's strongest elements, whether that's through how you choose to fight enemies, how you build your base, or how you customize your character, vanity included. This suggestion takes away an enormous element of the game, in exchange for the infinitesimally small benefit of seeing the true equipment someone else is wearing in an extremely unpolished, unfinished, broken gamemode.

If it isn't clear already, the suggestion to remove vanity as a concept is atrocious, perhaps the single-worst idea I have seen on the entire forum. The downsides are catastrophic to a major part of the game's appeal and the upsides are close to nonexistent.
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Its "atrocious" that I'm saying you shouldn't have a free extra row of armor and accessories? Especially one that hides your true gear?

Coleyohley said:
EDIT: I am inclined to believe this post is bait; if so, I must admit that I've been had.
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It was not intended to needlessly stir up conflict. I already knew ahead of time it would be unpopular, but I do believe this is an issue that needs attention.
 
Heath04🌳 said:
Did you consider any of the points directed against the post or are you firm on your belief? I really see no argument to be made from your side.
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I edited my previous comment some, but the main opposition I appear to be seeing is that 'this would be an unneeded change, becuase it's not that big of an issue', which I disagree. I dont think players should be able to wear fake gear in addition to real gear, but feel free to wear it instead.

Also, 'it is nice to have that free extra row of storage for accessories', a point which I am not denying, but becuase it is so easy and free, that is why I oppose it.

And just to clarify, I suppose it's fine for players to self-express in singleplayer (even though I still feel like having another row of slots for wearing fake armor pieces over your real ones is stupid, just wear them instead of armor) but the problem arises on multiplayer
 
Aceplante said:
but the problem arises on multiplayer
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Going to link to my first message as you seem to have missed it the first time.
Dapling said:
Talking as someone who actually played pvp for several years in the past, your vanity slots don’t matter because if the armor your opponent’s wearing is hidden it falls into one of two categories:

A) it’s not impactful enough to matter when trying to counterplay it (most armors in the game)
B) it has some kind of visual effect like Stealth (vortex and shroomite) dusts (crimson or any regen armor with shiny stone (shiny stone is an extremely important item in pvp when coupled with stealth)), or even a floating sprite (beetle, solar flare, stardust, forbidden armor) which immediately lets you know what armor they’re using.

I don’t believe that you’ve actually played pvp before at a high level due to this, and as a result I can’t really support this suggestion in good faith
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In addition, having a free row of storage for equipables doesn’t really add much considering that the player has around 210 inventory slots with portable storage anyway and 10 extra slots barely puts a dent in that.
 
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Aceplante said:
Its "atrocious" that I'm saying you shouldn't have a free extra row of armor and accessories? Especially one that hides your true gear?
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Considering that these items are purely cosmetic, and add an incredible amount appeal to the game, yes, it is an atrocious suggestion. Having 10 more inventory slots means nothing when you have up to 210 inventory slots from all of your personal storage containers, which you can bring anywhere with you and access at essentially any time: the 10 slots you are referencing is less than 5% of your total portable storage: if extra storage in vanity slots is your criticism, it is comically shortsighted and you have a lot to learn about how this game works.

Hiding your true gear also has very, very little effect on PvP. Most armors simply don't have enough of an effect to warrant immediate attention and counterplay, and if they do, it will be instantly apparent regardless of what the player wears on vanity: see Dapling's response for examples.

Either way, PvP is an incredibly broken, unbalanced mess of a "gamemode" (for reasons that aren't this one, mind you), and this "fix" does absolutely nothing to change that. It sacrifices (and I cannot state this enough) a gargantuan positive aspect of the game to shore up an extremely small inconvenience for one of what is already one of the worst parts of this game for an uncountable amount of reasons.

I am indeed willing to call this an atrocious suggestion; I suspect a very large amount of people would call it the same. In fact, I suspect a majority of players would quit outright if this was changed.
Aceplante said:
It was not intended to needlessly stir up conflict. I already knew ahead of time it would be unpopular, but I do believe this is an issue that needs attention.
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You haven't responded to half of the criticisms directed towards your idea in this thread; perhaps you just didn't see them, perhaps you ignored them; regardless, it appears (at least to me) that you aren't willing to engage with them; a dire blow to the integrity of this suggestion considering how directly they prove your points wrong. To me, it appears that stirring up conflict is exactly what this post is trying do.
 
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