Weapons & Equip The whips go against the principles of the summoner

This is how I know you weren't playing summoner before this update. Summon staffs can be right-clicked near and enemy to focus minions on to them, and it worked really well before whips were added. Now, this mechanic is basically useless, as before you could use the summon staff to tell the minions to go kill something while you were focusing on other things, but the whip overrides whatever you focused on and changes it to whatever enemy you just hit. As others have suggested, the whip either needs to not override summon staff focuses, needs to be a "lower priority" focus tag, or just needs to have a alternate right-click attack that does the "focus" on it, while left-click just hits.

Dude, don't make assumptions I simply didn't know right click did anything. They've been my favorite class since they were released.

Yeah i think the wips are really uselles, dosent feel like summoner.

Whips do several things ordinary weapons do not, (sure they tag enemies. But theres more then that. )
It boosts the damage of your minions. It applies additional effects. for example:
The endgame whips (kaliedoscope and morningstar) allow minions to score freaking critical hits. Something they normally cannot do.

edit: with all the stuff that whips actually apply to minions its obivious they're not that powerful. However here's the thing they get the same bonuses minions do from acessories (i've checked)So yeah you can turn a endgame whip into a moon lord slaying machine and it's hilarious(we're talking 416 damage per swing not to mention the +10% summon tag crtit which makes the terraprism even deadlier.) the tagging should problably effect all enemies struck by the whip on that swing in my honest opinion.
 
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I was thinking about how the mourning star and that the summoner weapons are whips and then I made the connection that it might be a reference to Fairy Tale where the summoner uses a whip and or is also a reference to Final Fantasy IV.
 
I agree, for the most part. I felt like the whips never really made sense for the summoner class.
They straight up added a melee weapon to the summoner, even the feral claws work with the whip.

I propose a better, more fitting self-defense weapon. I would like to call them, "Bodyguard staffs" still sticking with the summoner theme, these staffs will allow you to
summon bodyguards that have a much shorter range than your standard minion, and will only attack if you allow them to do so. it's easy, actually. Just click on where you want them to go/attack! This is defiantly a more fitting self-defense weapon for the summoner. ;)
 
I don't understand why people have no issues with both Ranger & Mage being centered around spamming projectiles with not much thought, yet Summoner having a non-projectile weapon type is "Melee but summoner damage".
 
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I don't understand why people have no issues with both Ranger & Mage being centered around spamming projectiles with not much thought, yet Summoner having a non-projectile weapon type is "Melee but summoner damage".
All of them except close-ranged melee pretty much do the same thing anyway, which is “point and click at the enemy for the duration of the fight.” Sure, the way you build summoner loadouts is different and requires some thought, but in the actual fight it plays almost the exact same as the other classes, especially with Obsidian Armor involved.

Yes, whip stacking exists, but it’s been confirmed that this is unintentional, meaning that the way this class was intended to be played is now unfortunately very similar to other classes.
 
I came to the forums for a different reason but when I saw this topic, I went on the wiki and started looking up armor sets for the other "classes"/builds... and what I saw honestly made my stomach turn a bit.

Summoners have 1/2 or sometimes as little as 1/3rd the defense. It's really paper thin, the equivalent of being several tiers behind in armor of other specs. I've struggled a lot at points, with how much I died I thought I must be doing something wrong; I didn't realize the game was baiting me into melee ranges with such awful survivability and that this is the 'wrong' way to play. Meanwhile even others lobbing artillery at range get so much more survivability. And without tag damage, the summons hit several (regular) hardmode enemies for only 1 damage per hit (even with a summoner emblem and favorable modifiers), so it's not like there's amazing damage output - those enemies won't die in a reasonable time without it. Maybe it's different at endgame, but, ugh... well the game's definitely made me feel terribly foolish now...

If summoners are intended to have the durability of wet tissue paper, seems like the tag damage could at least be thrown onto some bows/guns/etc, instead of tricking suckers like me into thinking I should be fighting up close...
 
I came to the forums for a different reason but when I saw this topic, I went on the wiki and started looking up armor sets for the other "classes"/builds... and what I saw honestly made my stomach turn a bit.

Summoners have 1/2 or sometimes as little as 1/3rd the defense. It's really paper thin, the equivalent of being several tiers behind in armor of other specs. I've struggled a lot at points, with how much I died I thought I must be doing something wrong; I didn't realize the game was baiting me into melee ranges with such awful survivability and that this is the 'wrong' way to play. Meanwhile even others lobbing artillery at range get so much more survivability. And without tag damage, the summons hit several (regular) hardmode enemies for only 1 damage per hit (even with a summoner emblem and favorable modifiers), so it's not like there's amazing damage output - those enemies won't die in a reasonable time without it. Maybe it's different at endgame, but, ugh... well the game's definitely made me feel terribly foolish now...

If summoners are intended to have the durability of wet tissue paper, seems like the tag damage could at least be thrown onto some bows/guns/etc, instead of tricking suckers like me into thinking I should be fighting up close...
You extremely overestimate the impact of the gap in defenses between Summoner and Mage/Ranger.

As a whole, Defense in Expert/Master especially doesn't make much of an impact to your general survivability unless you minmax it. With the way it works, Defense is very exponential in effectiveness when tanking enemy attacks. Even a Ranger armor with an average amount of defense won't reduce that much more damage compared to Summoner armors at all.

Another thing worth mentioning is that Summoner has Berserker's Glove which increases defense by 8, bringing its defense on par with Mage. And it's an upgrade off an essential accessory for Summoners.

I would go over Summoner's very potent survivability-focused build involving Blade Staff as well but I think I made my point already.

And without tag damage, the summons hit several (regular) hardmode enemies for only 1 damage per hit (even with a summoner emblem and favorable modifiers),
This happens with Pre-Hardmode weapons in general. Switch to Abigail (boosted in Hardmode) or Spider Staff.
 
I came to the forums for a different reason but when I saw this topic, I went on the wiki and started looking up armor sets for the other "classes"/builds... and what I saw honestly made my stomach turn a bit.
That's unfortunate to hear, I sadly saw where this was going before I finished reading what it was that you had to say, but just know it's not your fault for being duped. Summoner, in it's purest form, was supposed to be a Hybrid Class, where it allowed you to enjoy the benefits of any other Class you wanted, but with Minions. With the introduction of 1.4, the "correct way" of playing Summoner Class got pretty convoluted, and instead of being obscure, it became "counter-intuitive".

In-short: Summoner Class (Pure), is now a high-risk, high-reward playstyle, still suited for "Advanced Players", but the option for Hybrid Classes are a bit more supported, so Summoner Class can still be played in that manner (i.e. Bee Set/ Items, Forbidden Set, DD2 Sets, Crystal Assassin Set).

Summoners have 1/2 or sometimes as little as 1/3rd the defense. It's really paper thin, the equivalent of being several tiers behind in armor of other specs. I've struggled a lot at points, with how much I died I thought I must be doing something wrong; I didn't realize the game was baiting me into melee ranges with such awful survivability and that this is the 'wrong' way to play. Meanwhile even others lobbing artillery at range get so much more survivability. And without tag damage, the summons hit several (regular) hardmode enemies for only 1 damage per hit (even with a summoner emblem and favorable modifiers), so it's not like there's amazing damage output - those enemies won't die in a reasonable time without it. Maybe it's different at endgame, but, ugh... well the game's definitely made me feel terribly foolish now...
Like @Shyguymask stated earlier, defense really isn't all that important on higher difficulties. If by some chance Whips aren't working out for you, I strongly recommend investing into the DD2 Armor/ items early-on. In fact, I haven't seen it myself yet, but I'm aware there's a new Turret Minion available for players outside of Old One's Army.

In addition, the Flinx Set is pretty overpowered for it's tier placement, and Bee Armor/ Items have all been buffed, so you should at least have an easier time with those. It's also important to note that Pygmy Necklace has been moved down several Jungle Themed tiers, from Hardmode to pre-Hardmode. So, Summoner is objectively a "stronger" Class.

If summoners are intended to have the durability of wet tissue paper, seems like the tag damage could at least be thrown onto some bows/guns/etc, instead of tricking suckers like me into thinking I should be fighting up close...
Well.. that's a complicated issue, and delves more into the realm of personal taste & opinion, more than anything that can be proven or correctly analyzed. IMHO, Summoner is objectively better in actuality, but... when it comes to communicating it's "purpose", or, how it should be played, it doesn't do a very good job, unlike the other Classes in 1.4. 🧐 🤷‍♂️
 
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Honestly, I’m not even sure why there’s a thread about this. I don’t think that Re-Logic will remove them, and they also make it so that summoner isn’t completely underpowered/useless/worthless to play and a waste of coding. The whips actually make summoner class playable and fun (Somewhat). Without the whips for summoner, it’s not even worth playing, and the whips are what make a class. Without whips, summoner wouldn’t even exist. And anyways, you could always just not use them, am I right?
 
Honestly, I’m not even sure why there’s a thread about this. I don’t think that Re-Logic will remove them, and they also make it so that summoner isn’t completely underpowered/useless/worthless to play and a waste of coding.
From where I sit, I think it's important to keep these kinds of things in mind, especially while Re-Logic is working on their next I.P. Summoner was never "weak" or "underpowered", even in 1.3.5, all you were doing previously, was trading DPS potential and survivability for a "safer", hands-off playstyle, which is one I personally enjoy. In the FGC, this would typically be call ex-mode or if MvC2 was the example, an assist-type (projectile, anti-air, extension).

The reason Summoner is/ was good for Item/ Weapons farming, was the same reason it was "good", it was a consistent, self-sustaining "shield", no matter how good or bad your aim was, which was a trade-off for tankiness or being a nuke.

The whips actually make summoner class playable and fun (Somewhat). Without the whips for summoner, it’s not even worth playing, and the whips are what make a class. Without whips, summoner wouldn’t even exist. And anyways, you could always just not use them, am I right?
Though I don't agree with this, I do agree that Summoner is more "fun to play", because it almost has branching metas. I personally see Summoner divided into 1.3.5 Summoner and 1.4 Summoner, to include any other passive DPS items added such as Bone Helm and Volatile Gelatin. Though I do personally feel that Summoner lost some of it's identity in 1.4, some of the potential that something like Obsidian Armor brings to the table is undeniable, if they can manage to get it under control that is...
 
Again though, if you want to play summoner how it was intended to be played, either install T-Mod and don’t use mods if you’re on PC, but for anyone else, just don’t use the whips. It’s that simple.
 
You extremely overestimate the impact of the gap in defenses between Summoner and Mage/Ranger.

As a whole, Defense in Expert/Master especially doesn't make much of an impact to your general survivability unless you minmax it. With the way it works, Defense is very exponential in effectiveness when tanking enemy attacks. Even a Ranger armor with an average amount of defense won't reduce that much more damage compared to Summoner armors at all.

Yes, mage is relatively close, they just aren't saddled with melee at least.

I'm playing on classic. I'm just that bad at the game I guess. I have been reforging for +def bonuses because it does seem to help. While I don't know the exact formulas, it's been the difference between being able to do a boss with a campfire and heartlamp nearby and maybe needing a potion or two, and just getting completely shredded - as well as taking the occasional hit spelunking and being ok, or needing to down potions or go back early to recover.

It also helps quite a lot if I never try to melee, just then it takes a century and change to kill stuff.


Another thing worth mentioning is that Summoner has Berserker's Glove which increases defense by 8, bringing its defense on par with Mage. And it's an upgrade off an essential accessory for Summoners.

Thanks for the tip off on this item. But after a quick wiki dive on it... It looks like I can't even get it unless I roll up a new world..? Not sure I'd feel great about the aggro boost if I jumped in multiplayer too...

Seems like it was meant to synergize with the turtle armor and melee in general, and just kind of happens to work out for summoner too - in spite of some aspects that aren't particularly ideal?

And, lastly... honestly, the whips themselves don't seem terrible. Even without that accessory, their damage seems pretty good, even. It feels like if I didn't worry about minions at all, and just did a full melee build, even using whips despite their summon/tag damage, I'd be doing a lot better. Decent enough damage, much higher defense, prolonged iframes, more access to regen effects...

I would go over Summoner's very potent survivability-focused build involving Blade Staff as well but I think I made my point already.


This happens with Pre-Hardmode weapons in general. Switch to Abigail (boosted in Hardmode) or Spider Staff.

Early hardmode weapons too, the blade staff among them... tag damage is really important, or at least so it seems.

And I don't think tag damage is a bad mechanic or anything, encourages interactivity and keeps the minions on high priority targets...

In-short: Summoner Class (Pure), is now a high-risk, high-reward playstyle, still suited for "Advanced Players", but the option for Hybrid Classes are a bit more supported, so Summoner Class can still be played in that manner (i.e. Bee Set/ Items, Forbidden Set, DD2 Sets, Crystal Assassin Set).

Is it possible to get this high reward before endgame? Because right now it doesn't really feel like I'm getting much payoff for using synergistic items. Even outside of the 1 damage scenarios (and if enemies in expert/master have more defense, this would become more common?), it doesn't exactly feel like a spec that crushes.

It's difficult for me to imagine playing it as a hybrid because so much of the spec is tied to armor, and it seems more and more often as I progress, set bonuses. Were it possible to hybridize without losing so much capacity, I suspect I wouldn't have much to complain about...

Like @Shyguymask stated earlier, defense really isn't all that important on higher difficulties. If by some chance Whips aren't working out for you, I strongly recommend investing into the DD2 Armor/ items early-on. In fact, I haven't seen it myself yet, but I'm aware there's a new Turret Minion available for players outside of Old One's Army.

I got the deerclops sentry. It's... ok against like pre-HM zombies, and just kind of garbage against anything that moves faster. Just like minions, it doesn't lead targets, but unlike minions with a ranged attack, you don't get volley fire and it can't move closer (and has a warm up time when placed). Minions seemed like the much better investment and the flame turret from the old one's army was even less damage, but not any better against things that aren't slow moving. I could see situational uses for the aura damage or mines, but it's harder to envision them as general purpose.

In addition, the Flinx Set is pretty overpowered for it's tier placement, and Bee Armor/ Items have all been buffed, so you should at least have an easier time with those. It's also important to note that Pygmy Necklace has been moved down several Jungle Themed tiers, from Hardmode to pre-Hardmode. So, Summoner is objectively a "stronger" Class.

Is there a Flinx set? I got the coat but at the time 2 finches didn't exactly seem to be crushing it for even weaker enemies, and even crafting the best staff I could, the boss fights pre-bee armor were very difficult, at least for me...

Bee armor + hornet staff was definitely a big power boost and helped a ton pre-HM. And even now that I have the optic staff, I still miss how little the bees got stuck compared to the twins. And I made sure to pick up the pygmy necklace pre-HM too.

I can't really speak to how it was in the past, though. I've only played it as it is now because I've only had terraria for like 2 weeks now...

From where I sit, I think it's important to keep these kinds of things in mind, especially while Re-Logic is working on their next I.P. Summoner was never "weak" or "underpowered", even in 1.3.5, all you were doing previously, was trading DPS potential and survivability for a "safer", hands-off playstyle, which is one I personally enjoy. In the FGC, this would typically be call ex-mode or if MvC2 was the example, an assist-type (projectile, anti-air, extension).

The reason Summoner is/ was good for Item/ Weapons farming, was the same reason it was "good", it was a consistent, self-sustaining "shield", no matter how good or bad your aim was, which was a trade-off for tankiness or being a nuke.

I really don't mind the hands on part, though. I think tag damage is a great idea. Just... tying it to a melee weapon seems to be at odds with the "stay far away and safe" playstyle the survivability encourages, and even if you do take the risk and get up close, and have synergizing prefixes on the staff and minion count/damage boosting accessories, it's not exactly feeling high payoff. At least not in my experience so far. That just keeps things from taking utterly forever. I can only guess at endgame or some point between there's a pretty significant power boost if veterans all agree it's strong.
 
Before I respond, I should warn you that my take on the Summoner Class is wildly different from a larger portion of the Terraria Community; we rarely see eye-to-eye on anything Summoner related. Regardless of this being the case, the information I can provide will be very effective, there's certain caveats to Summoner Class that can easily be overlooked in 1.4, because of how tools and items have been oddly sorted/ moved around. 🧐🥤

Is it possible to get this high reward before endgame? Because right now it doesn't really feel like I'm getting much payoff for using synergistic items. Even outside of the 1 damage scenarios (and if enemies in expert/master have more defense, this would become more common?), it doesn't exactly feel like a spec that crushes.
When it comes to Whip Summoner/ Summoner Purist specifically, I'd suggest asking @Shyguymask , as he seems the most knowledgeable about advanced techniques and some of the more obscure Min-Maxing buffs/ bonuses. I'm a bit more practical and nuanced, I come from a position of "anyone can do it, just grab A, B and C; you're good to go".

That said, Summoner Class, in most cases, encourages you to engage with Fishing. It's more of a slower-paced, goal-focused playstyle, because there's quite a few boxes you'll want to check before you go hunting. If any of this is starting to feel "unappealing", feel free to ignore the rest of what I have to say, because it doesn't get any more laissez-faire from here... Summoner Class is a different beast from all the other Classes, which normally rewards you for just moving in a straight line, Summoner is a bit more of a game of ping-pong.

Here's a short list of items you'll want before you go exploring/ cave diving:
  1. Sailfish Boots
  2. Tsunami in a Bottle/ Balloon Pufferfish
  3. Any Fish to be Cooked for "Well-Fed".
  4. Frog Leg if possible, but don't hold your breath!

It's difficult for me to imagine playing it as a hybrid because so much of the spec is tied to armor, and it seems more and more often as I progress, set bonuses. Were it possible to hybridize without losing so much capacity, I suspect I wouldn't have much to complain about...
One of the things I'd suggest, especially since it's been greatly improved in 1.4, is investing into DoT (damage) weapons/ items. Though many of these items seem "gimmicky" in the hands of other Classes, Summoner benefits greatly from using them, because you'll almost-always be doing DMG, even passively, which means you can afford to "set-up", swap weapons and focus on movement instead of "accuracy".

I wouldn't get too caught-up in "set bonuses" and trying to make things fit together nicely, with a shiny red bow, more then just exploiting all of the possible ways you can effectively do DMG, with whatever item(s) you choose; Flasks, Magma Stone, Mage Sentries (Crimson Rod, Clinger's Staff), Bone Helm, Bone Glove etc.

I got the deerclops sentry. It's... ok against like pre-HM zombies, and just kind of garbage against anything that moves faster. Just like minions, it doesn't lead targets, but unlike minions with a ranged attack, you don't get volley fire and it can't move closer (and has a warm up time when placed). Minions seemed like the much better investment and the flame turret from the old one's army was even less damage, but not any better against things that aren't slow moving. I could see situational uses for the aura damage or mines, but it's harder to envision them as general purpose.
Sentries, in my experience, require you to think about "leashing enemies/ Bosses", more than "running backward" or "face-tanking". I think this is where their use seems to be the most divisive, because I can only assume that the range most Sentries are effective in, is a range most player aren't comfortable fighting in, which will largely be left up to taste and preference.

I don't personally think it's totally necessary to use Sentries as Summoner, but it does help a LOT, if loss on DPS is a common complaint. One of the most obvious benefits you'll see, using the "complete set" is with Spider Armor/ Weapons. All i can say, is that this rule never changes, it's always true, but it depends on personal comfort, which won't really help much in this case.

Is there a Flinx set? I got the coat but at the time 2 finches didn't exactly seem to be crushing it for even weaker enemies, and even crafting the best staff I could, the boss fights pre-bee armor were very difficult, at least for me...
I guess you can say you heard it from me first, but no Summoner should ever be spelunking without their Food Items and Summoner Potions! Your standard should've been three Minions, not two, made possible by 1.4; two Minions is/ was the 1.3.5 standard, which was also sparingly practiced by most.

Again, it all goes back to Fishing, your character should be pretty efficient at it by this point, so you and the Angler should be best friends. Also, the addition of "Township" is invaluable to Summoner, because you'll be able to get more bang-for-your-buck, buying and selling off items you get by Fishing, and passively traversing the World, as your Minions do all the dirty work (Summoners are money-makers in 1.4)!

Bee armor + hornet staff was definitely a big power boost and helped a ton pre-HM. And even now that I have the optic staff, I still miss how little the bees got stuck compared to the twins. And I made sure to pick up the pygmy necklace pre-HM too.
At this point I'd recommend mixing-up/ matching your Minions, this'll be easier with:
  1. Summoner Potions
  2. Bewitching Table
  3. obviously Pygmy Necklace (pre_HM)
For example, try summoning Spiders (x3) and Twins (x2), and see how it feels. Once you experiance how effective it an be, you'll be coming up with your own strategies in no time!

I can't really speak to how it was in the past, though. I've only played it as it is now because I've only had terraria for like 2 weeks now...
Yeah... you're actually in a great spot, because you don't have any baggage. It's just a shame that, IMHO, they sorta "overextended" with Summoner Class in 1.4+, when they actually met a good sweet-spot with Summoner in the initial 1.4.0 release, as far as it being "intuitive but obscure" goes...

I really don't mind the hands on part, though. I think tag damage is a great idea. Just... tying it to a melee weapon seems to be at odds with the "stay far away and safe" playstyle the survivability encourages, and even if you do take the risk and get up close, and have synergizing prefixes on the staff and minion count/damage boosting accessories, it's not exactly feeling high payoff. At least not in my experience so far. That just keeps things from taking utterly forever. I can only guess at endgame or some point between there's a pretty significant power boost if veterans all agree it's strong.
...this is where "whip-stacking" synergy comes into play, which you'll have to talk to Shyguymask about, LoL. All I can tell you is that, you can get started almost immediately, if you have Snapthorn and Spinal Tap (both pre-HM Whips).
 
That said, Summoner Class, in most cases, encourages you to engage with Fishing. It's more of a slower-paced, goal-focused playstyle, because there's quite a few boxes you'll want to check before you go hunting. If any of this is starting to feel "unappealing", feel free to ignore the rest of what I have to say, because it doesn't get any more laissez-faire from here... Summoner Class is a different beast from all the other Classes, which normally rewards you for just moving in a straight line, Summoner is a bit more of a game of ping-pong.

Here's a short list of items you'll want before you go exploring/ cave diving:
  1. Sailfish Boots
  2. Tsunami in a Bottle/ Balloon Pufferfish
  3. Any Fish to be Cooked for "Well-Fed".
  4. Frog Leg if possible, but don't hold your breath!

I've done a good amount of fishing so I think I don't mind it. Was a little unintuitive to get started but when I learned it's not optional to get the GPS... well, past that initial hurdle it wasn't bad. I got several sailfish boots, but only after I'd gone spelunking and found flurry boots, and a tsunami that eventually went into crafting the 3 balloons, and I have hundreds of bass and other fish. The only thing I've struggled with is finding biome-specific crates (even with I think.. the third-strongest rod?), so several times I just made new worlds to find stuff I couldn't seem to get in my main... never gotten the frog leg but terraspark + balloons made for great mobility. Still does, with the queen slime mount now too I can get all the way into orbit.

One of the things I'd suggest, especially since it's been greatly improved in 1.4, is investing into DoT (damage) weapons/ items. Though many of these items seem "gimmicky" in the hands of other Classes, Summoner benefits greatly from using them, because you'll almost-always be doing DMG, even passively, which means you can afford to "set-up", swap weapons and focus on movement instead of "accuracy".

I wouldn't get too caught-up in "set bonuses" and trying to make things fit together nicely, with a shiny red bow, more then just exploiting all of the possible ways you can effectively do DMG, with whatever item(s) you choose; Flasks, Magma Stone, Mage Sentries (Crimson Rod, Clinger's Staff), Bone Helm, Bone Glove etc.

Honestly, I've been holding off on playing for a bit because I'm not sure how I want to spend my hallowed bars. I guess it's well and good to say "just use a ranged weapon with summoner", but the summons' damage is so low without the tag effect that it's hard to not feel like "If I'm going to use a ranged weapon, might as well go full ranged spec" and just ditch the summoning. (but I'm obviously a sucker for pet classes so that's not a pill I'm eager to swallow too).

I guess you can say you heard it from me first, but no Summoner should ever be spelunking without their Food Items and Summoner Potions! Your standard should've been three Minions, not two, made possible by 1.4; two Minions is/ was the 1.3.5 standard, which was also sparingly practiced by most.

Again, it all goes back to Fishing, your character should be pretty efficient at it by this point, so you and the Angler should be best friends. Also, the addition of "Township" is invaluable to Summoner, because you'll be able to get more bang-for-your-buck, buying and selling off items you get by Fishing, and passively traversing the World, as your Minions do all the dirty work (Summoners are money-makers in 1.4)!


At this point I'd recommend mixing-up/ matching your Minions, this'll be easier with:
  1. Summoner Potions
  2. Bewitching Table
  3. obviously Pygmy Necklace (pre_HM)

In my defense I didn't know about summoning potions at the time and it didn't really come up when looking up what gear I should get, lol .-. I'm still not sure how to farm them but I guess that's my next thing to research. I do have bewitching tables (one of the first purchases I made going into HM though getting the wizard to spawn took a bit...) and the necklace.

Sentries, in my experience, require you to think about "leashing enemies/ Bosses", more than "running backward" or "face-tanking". I think this is where their use seems to be the most divisive, because I can only assume that the range most Sentries are effective in, is a range most player aren't comfortable fighting in, which will largely be left up to taste and preference.

So far my playstyle hasn't really been running backwards nor face tanking - I've been using verticality to fight - king slime mount (now queen slime), terraspark boots (rockets before that), and the triple balloon thing (which I never would have known about if someone on the steam forums didn't tip me off to them). I still take hits, and before HM took a bit of fall damage sometimes) but a higher skilled player could probably dodge perfectly with it. But then fighting something like the queen slime that way really seems to mess with the minion's targeting. Well, for lower mobility bosses it might work to put down a sentry too, even if it misses most of the time, damage is damage...

For example, try summoning Spiders (x3) and Twins (x2), and see how it feels. Once you experiance how effective it an be, you'll be coming up with your own strategies in no time!

...But I haven't tried mixing and matching. I guess I'll do so, though I'm really not crazy about the twins with how much they get stuck, but they are the highest summoning weapon I have...

...this is where "whip-stacking" synergy comes into play, which you'll have to talk to Shyguymask about, LoL. All I can tell you is that, you can get started almost immediately, if you have Snapthorn and Spinal Tap (both pre-HM Whips).

I do have both those whips, and Durendal. Spinal Tap in particular is what allowed my blade summons to do more than 1 damage against some of the tougher corrupted, night/bloodmoon enemies, and... hm, I think the spiders might have been more like 2 damage, but either way it was low and slow. Spinal Tap boosted that to 8~9 damage IIRC, which made stuff actually die in not-forever. And even before the tag damage, Durendal seems to chunk enemies pretty decently.

But I really don't need to be sold on tag damage. I've seen what a big difference it can make - but it feels like it brings summoner up to a baseline-adequate fighter, not a high-reward fighter... which in turn, makes me hesitant to use an off spec weapon without also just switching to that spec. But... then Durendal's noticeably stronger, so I guess if that continues, I could see how further whips might get very strong indeed, and double-scaling from high-end summons just moreso...

Anyways, thank you for all the tips.

--

Reading about aggro took me down a wiki rabbit hole about team-supporting items and... well, wow. If you've got a tank player using items to draw aggro and, if you do take hits, take a % of the damage... I feel like that would probably make the game completely easy mode. At least, it seems like it would be a huge benefit to summoner. Maybe I should go all in for trying to find someone to play with..?
 
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