Casual In an all-out war, would Voldemort or Sauron win?
- Thread starter Morgoth
- Start date
Morgoth
Terrarian
Bro, it's not a deathmatch. It's a WAR. A war in which the numerical advantage is the biggest factor, and that Sauron would win by a LONG shot. Voldemort's wizards may be elite, but there are millions of orcs, and the most the Death Eaters can do is maybe Fiendfyre, which wouldn't do much to the Olog-Hai (the super-trolls), and would do jack and
to the Nazgul, to whom the Patronus would probably do some (mild) damage. Also, does anyone know if 'Avada Kedavada' can kill multiple targets? I just don't know.[DOUBLEPOST=1419441977][/DOUBLEPOST]
Sauron is a demigod, but that doesn't mean he wins automatically.
Morgoth
Terrarian
Millions, not thousands.
Edge
Headless Horseman
I'd say its Sauron,
Sauron has the Orcs, the Easterlings, Haradims, Umbar, the traitor guy Saruman(his full of) and the Nazgul
while "Lord" Voldemort has only a group of teens,
And if they engage in "man to man" or what combat their is, hmmm, Sauron will win, the guy's a cheater so he will call
the Nazguls, while Voldemort doens't have any skilled lackeys to defend him.
Sauron has the Orcs, the Easterlings, Haradims, Umbar, the traitor guy Saruman(his full of
) and the Nazgulwhile "Lord" Voldemort has only a group of teens,
And if they engage in "man to man" or what combat their is, hmmm, Sauron will win, the guy's a cheater so he will call
the Nazguls, while Voldemort doens't have any skilled lackeys to defend him.
Darkwraith332
Skeletron
Why would you even bother asking this question?! Heck, even Saurons co-commanders could kill Voldemort, for instance the Witch King only needs one shot with his mace or his dragon. The orc hordes would overrun Voldemort. And Sauron himselft would Make V-man a grease smear on the floor.
SillyMind69
Official Terrarian
Sauron has:
-A nose
-An army
-A big army
-A ring (had
)
-Armor
Voldermort has:
-Magic
-A wand
-A small army of wizards
-A couple of other wands
-A deep feeling for his nose lost long ago
So there is my verdict: Death.
Death won. Both Sauron and Voldemort died before fighting each other. They are from different universes so the never had that chance anyway BUT they both fought Death and lost. So Death won and is better than anyone.
In case that you don't care about the Death argument then Sauron won.
-A nose
-An army
-A big army
-A ring (had
)-Armor
Voldermort has:
-Magic
-A wand
-A small army of wizards
-A couple of other wands
-A deep feeling for his nose lost long ago
So there is my verdict: Death.
Death won. Both Sauron and Voldemort died before fighting each other. They are from different universes so the never had that chance anyway BUT they both fought Death and lost. So Death won and is better than anyone.
In case that you don't care about the Death argument then Sauron won.
Charmander27
Queen Bee
↑ This is enough here to end the argument. Sauron is, essentially, a fallen angel/demigod. Tolken's religions are based on the Greek pantheon, and Sauron would essentially be an immortal demigod.
Voldemort, on the other hand, is severely mortal, he went about his entire life trying to preserve and hang onto that mortality. Kind of the whole point of his "power."
So, now we make this about "a war" which I assume means that these guys are just generals and we're deciding which troops win instead of who would win in a brawl. Sauron still wins. Why? Voldemort's biggest weakness was his love of "pure bloods" and hatred of "muggle" technology. Not going to lie here, a single person with a machine gun could have taken down ol' Voldy before he could have even chanted (or thought) the words to his spell. Not to mention anyone with half the brain to use an airstrike or homing missile on all of his death eater lairs at once.
An extensive analysis of a Voldemort vs Sauron war, addressing both "army versus army" and "Voldemort vs Sauron 1v1" scenarios.
Final Vote: Voldemort
Apparently I'm the ONLY person out of all 25 voters to vote for Voldemort.
To assess the military strength of each force, you have to consider their assets (personal strength of the individual is considered in the follow up section)
Voldemort's War Assets
- A relatively small cadre of Death Eaters, I'm willing to guesstimate the total at 50. The powers of the average Death Eater includes:
- A massive army of Orcs, of various breeds and capabilities, estimates hinting towards as many as a million. Capabilities and limitations include:
So the stage is set; Voldemort and his 50-some HP Universe Death Eaters versus an army numbering in the hundreds of thousands. Sounds like a pretty easy win for Sauron, right? I beg to differ.
Despite the massive quantities of humans, orcs, and trolls, even a thousand of them aren't worth a single HP universe Death Eater. Every one of those targets could be instantly eliminated with a cast of the Killing Curse, or killed in more numerous quantities with potent spells like Fiendfyre. With their maximum combat range limited to archery distance, the Death Eater squad could simply hover out of range on their brooms and cast KCs every few seconds for hours on end, slowly whittling down Sauron's numbers with limited or no losses on their side. Assuming each Death Eater could kill 10 Sauron allied units every minute, a team of 50 Death Eaters could eliminate 5000 enemy units in 10 hours, the whole time floating safely out of archery range and unleashing rangeless KCs. AoE spells like Fiendfyre would only amplify this. Even if they came into archery range, Death Eater use of the Protego charm could protect against arrows within reason, so even minor slip-ups would not be an issue. Even Trolls, being a living thing, are susceptible to the insta-kill of KC, so their ground based brute strength is irrelevant.
After 10 combat hours, the Death Eaters could fly or apparate away to a safe location for rest, recovery, and preparation for the next assault.
Nazgul aside, this sets up the Death Eaters in a scenario of excruciatingly slow but brutally one-sided combat. With 5000+ enemy casualties a day, this would lead to an effective 50% destruction of Sauron's forces within 100 days. It is my opinion that Sauron would take strategic measures to circumvent this, because despite having a cannon-fodder oriented style, there is no point in literally throwing your forces away. The only reasonable strategy he has against the Death Eaters is that of the Nazgul.
The 9 Nazgul are the only force that could give the Death Eaters any sort of opposition. Using their fell beast mounts, they could assault the Death Eaters even in the safety of the skies. However, based on the top speed depicted in the films by both fell beasts and broomsticks, I do not believe that the Fell Beasts could ever catch a Death Eater in chase. Furthermore, Fell Beasts are living beings, and can be killed by the Killing Curse, meaning that the otherwise melee-range Fell Beast/Nazgul combo would likely be beaten before reaching the Death Eaters. However, it is possible that with sufficient stealth, an ambush could be set up which might allow the occasional Death Eater to be killed.
The Nazgul, on the other hand, are an unexplored territory when it comes to the Killing Curse. Being undead, they may or may not be hindered by it, and even if they are, it may just reset them to wraith form . . . this is not a permanent solution. Until such time as a permanent kill technique can be developed, the Nazgul will be a frequently returning menace that will harass the Death Eater forces time and time again. However, there is no quantification of how many Fell Beast mounts they had in reserve, so this is a limiting factor.
A more important factor would be the morale-crushing effects of the Nazgul scream . . . depicted in the books, it is capable of turning the tides of battle by terrifying living beings through supernatural power. This could be best put to use by rapidly using the full 9's screams in unison to shock and awe the Death Eaters, possibly putting them off guard long enough to eliminate some of their number.
Given that the DE assault on Sauron's forces would be a slow battle of attrition, the success of this technique would determine the outcome of the war; would the Nazgul scream be potent enough to eliminate Death Eaters, and would the Death Eaters be able to learn from this in future encounters and develop a counter-strategy?
As depicted in the books, the presence of morale inspiring individuals or actions can nullify or even reverse the morale-effects of the Nazgul scream. While I'm not willing to place Voldemort on the field due to his nature as general, the presence of influential and strong combatants such as Lucius Malfoy, Bellatrix Lestrange, or Fenrir Greyback could counter-act this to a degree, and particularly stunning actions on their part (Fenrir jumping onto a Nazgul and decapitating its Fell Beast, for example) could provide a morale boost that actually repels the Nazgul.
So for all of Sauron's countless horde, the true battle comes down to the following:
Can 50 Death Eaters slowly, slowly whittle away at Sauron's forces over the course about 6 months to 1 year without taking substantial losses at the hands of the respawning Nazgul (who may show up as often as every few days, or as rarely as every few weeks). The end result would probably be determined solely based on how many Fell Beast mounts the Nazgul possess, and the effectiveness of the Nazgul scream over the course of dozens of attempts on the Death Eater forces.
Conclusion
My vote is that the Death Eaters may take a few casualties the first few times to the Nazgul, but would adapt their tactics shortly after to eliminate the Fell Beasts from the air upon each assault, learning to deal with the fear effect as they gained practice. After that, it is simply a matter of staying smart and not screwing up as they slowly mop up Sauron's armies until there is little left but stragglers and deserters.
But what about Sauron himself? Well, see below.
Voldemort's War Assets
- A relatively small cadre of Death Eaters, I'm willing to guesstimate the total at 50. The powers of the average Death Eater includes:
- Use of the Killing Curse, effective auto-kill against all living beings. May or may not be effective against Sauron or undead entities such as Nazgul (considered later)
- Access to unlimited broom flight, duration limited only by exhaustion, height limited by atmospheric pressure, and only then in theory
- Access to instant teleportation through Apparition
- The full host of commonly known HP Universe spells, both defensive and offensive, as well as a smattering of Dark Arts spells. Expected to be at least competent or exceptionally competent Wizards/Witches.
- A massive army of Orcs, of various breeds and capabilities, estimates hinting towards as many as a million. Capabilities and limitations include:
- Standard melee combat
- Hardy nature and survivability
- Mediocre archery skills
- Some breeds have a weakness to sunlight
- Extreme brute strength
- Highly durable
- Weakness to sunlight
- Average physical and mental powers of a lower class human warrior
- Comes with a free fleet of ships!
- Oliphaunt mount capabilities
- Average archery skills
- Effectively invulnerable due to Wraith curse. Killing them results in a "down-time" period as their soul returns to Sauron to be restored. Distance from Sauron has an impact on this time . . . books imply this can be as long as several weeks.
- Capable riders both on horseback and fell beast, the latter of which offers flight
- Possess a crippling fear scream, capable of breaking morale. Can be counteracted by allied morale boosters.
So the stage is set; Voldemort and his 50-some HP Universe Death Eaters versus an army numbering in the hundreds of thousands. Sounds like a pretty easy win for Sauron, right? I beg to differ.
Despite the massive quantities of humans, orcs, and trolls, even a thousand of them aren't worth a single HP universe Death Eater. Every one of those targets could be instantly eliminated with a cast of the Killing Curse, or killed in more numerous quantities with potent spells like Fiendfyre. With their maximum combat range limited to archery distance, the Death Eater squad could simply hover out of range on their brooms and cast KCs every few seconds for hours on end, slowly whittling down Sauron's numbers with limited or no losses on their side. Assuming each Death Eater could kill 10 Sauron allied units every minute, a team of 50 Death Eaters could eliminate 5000 enemy units in 10 hours, the whole time floating safely out of archery range and unleashing rangeless KCs. AoE spells like Fiendfyre would only amplify this. Even if they came into archery range, Death Eater use of the Protego charm could protect against arrows within reason, so even minor slip-ups would not be an issue. Even Trolls, being a living thing, are susceptible to the insta-kill of KC, so their ground based brute strength is irrelevant.
After 10 combat hours, the Death Eaters could fly or apparate away to a safe location for rest, recovery, and preparation for the next assault.
Nazgul aside, this sets up the Death Eaters in a scenario of excruciatingly slow but brutally one-sided combat. With 5000+ enemy casualties a day, this would lead to an effective 50% destruction of Sauron's forces within 100 days. It is my opinion that Sauron would take strategic measures to circumvent this, because despite having a cannon-fodder oriented style, there is no point in literally throwing your forces away. The only reasonable strategy he has against the Death Eaters is that of the Nazgul.
The 9 Nazgul are the only force that could give the Death Eaters any sort of opposition. Using their fell beast mounts, they could assault the Death Eaters even in the safety of the skies. However, based on the top speed depicted in the films by both fell beasts and broomsticks, I do not believe that the Fell Beasts could ever catch a Death Eater in chase. Furthermore, Fell Beasts are living beings, and can be killed by the Killing Curse, meaning that the otherwise melee-range Fell Beast/Nazgul combo would likely be beaten before reaching the Death Eaters. However, it is possible that with sufficient stealth, an ambush could be set up which might allow the occasional Death Eater to be killed.
The Nazgul, on the other hand, are an unexplored territory when it comes to the Killing Curse. Being undead, they may or may not be hindered by it, and even if they are, it may just reset them to wraith form . . . this is not a permanent solution. Until such time as a permanent kill technique can be developed, the Nazgul will be a frequently returning menace that will harass the Death Eater forces time and time again. However, there is no quantification of how many Fell Beast mounts they had in reserve, so this is a limiting factor.
A more important factor would be the morale-crushing effects of the Nazgul scream . . . depicted in the books, it is capable of turning the tides of battle by terrifying living beings through supernatural power. This could be best put to use by rapidly using the full 9's screams in unison to shock and awe the Death Eaters, possibly putting them off guard long enough to eliminate some of their number.
Given that the DE assault on Sauron's forces would be a slow battle of attrition, the success of this technique would determine the outcome of the war; would the Nazgul scream be potent enough to eliminate Death Eaters, and would the Death Eaters be able to learn from this in future encounters and develop a counter-strategy?
As depicted in the books, the presence of morale inspiring individuals or actions can nullify or even reverse the morale-effects of the Nazgul scream. While I'm not willing to place Voldemort on the field due to his nature as general, the presence of influential and strong combatants such as Lucius Malfoy, Bellatrix Lestrange, or Fenrir Greyback could counter-act this to a degree, and particularly stunning actions on their part (Fenrir jumping onto a Nazgul and decapitating its Fell Beast, for example) could provide a morale boost that actually repels the Nazgul.
So for all of Sauron's countless horde, the true battle comes down to the following:
Can 50 Death Eaters slowly, slowly whittle away at Sauron's forces over the course about 6 months to 1 year without taking substantial losses at the hands of the respawning Nazgul (who may show up as often as every few days, or as rarely as every few weeks). The end result would probably be determined solely based on how many Fell Beast mounts the Nazgul possess, and the effectiveness of the Nazgul scream over the course of dozens of attempts on the Death Eater forces.
Conclusion
My vote is that the Death Eaters may take a few casualties the first few times to the Nazgul, but would adapt their tactics shortly after to eliminate the Fell Beasts from the air upon each assault, learning to deal with the fear effect as they gained practice. After that, it is simply a matter of staying smart and not screwing up as they slowly mop up Sauron's armies until there is little left but stragglers and deserters.
But what about Sauron himself? Well, see below.
In a scenario without armies or minions (more interesting to me, personally), purely 1v1, I'd say the victor would be determined by two factors;
A) Does the Killing Curse kill Sauron, and if so, how "dead" is the resulting Sauron?
B) If the Killing Curse only body-kills Sauron, how would Voldemort react/succumb to the One Ring?
-Scenario 1
If KC auto-kills Sauron, body and phylactery, at once, then its a done deal. Between flight, teleportation, and a host of other spells, it would take little more than a quick strike from range to OHKO Sauron. Victory for Voldemort.
-Scenario 2
If KC only kills Sauron's body, but does not destroy his soul (akin to Isildur's kill shot), there are a host of different outcomes, depending on Voldemort's decisions regarding the ring, and his ability to utilize it.
--Subscenario A
Voldemort resists the control of the One Ring, and for one reason or another, destroys it. Victory for Voldemort.
--Subscenario B
Voldemort uses the One Ring for his own ends, and as implied by individuals such as Galadriel, is strong enough to utilize its full potential. This, in tandem with his own powers and phylactery abilities, would likely allow him to establish himself as a world-power, and thus prevent any return of Sauron's soul. Victory for Voldemort, with perks.
--Subscenario C
Voldemort uses the One Ring for his own ends, but is not strong enough to resist its manipulations and/or not strong enough to utilize it enough to establish world dominance. Either through his own mistakes or a weakness in his planning, the One Ring is lost and inevitably returns to its true master. If he does not die in the process of losing the Ring, his own psyche would likely be so ruined by the loss of the Ring that it is unlikely he could ever muster an effective offensive against Sauron again, to say nothing of Sauron's preparations for a second assault, ending in a likely victory for Sauron. If he does die in the process, then victory for Sauron.
-Scenario 3
The KC has no effect on Sauron's body or soul, meaning it is a more or less fair fight between the brute strength and abilities of Sauron's fallen Maia nature and Voldemort's top-tier HP Universe magic. While I Voldemort could easily escape from said fight, if he were forced to fight to a standstill, I suspect that his magic would be of limited effectiveness against the Ring-enhanced Sauron, barring lucky shots like "accidentally severing a finger". A primary issue is a lack of info on what sort of anti-air combat Sauron might possess . . . Voldemort could just float above him and hurl spells until he got lucky, but then again, Sauron may have some sort of counter for this, or even the ability to reflect potent magic using the nearly invulnerable One Ring. For the sake of fairness, Voldemort wouldn't know that Sauron's power was primarily linked to the One Ring, so it would be a matter of Voldemort's magic taking down Sauron by luck and/or attrition until either his entire body were destroyed or the One Ring severed. I'd be willing to allow spells like Fiendfyre to destroy the One Ring, but only used as a matter of combat, not in a deliberate attempt to destroy the Ring.
Ultimately, with the above factors weighed, and if we assign Sauron the benefit of the doubt in terms of anti-air capabilities, I believe Voldemort would only win a battle by luck, with Sauron having a higher chance of out-enduring him and killing him. This leads to . . .
--Subscenario A
With his fresh victory against Voldemort complete, Sauron has the foresight to eliminate Voldemort's phylacteries (toss those suckers in Mt Doom!) and destroy the lingering soul before it returns to a living state. Victory for Sauron.
--Subscenario B
Either through neglect or an inability to find all of Voldemort's phylacteries, Sauron is unable to prevent Voldemort from returning to a living state in one form of another. With years to ponder his loss and research Sauron, he would likely learn the nature of the One Ring and deliberately target it with specific spells in a rematch. Assuming he can sever or remove the One Ring from Sauron's hand, refer to Scenario 2 for possible resolutions. If he is able to completely consume the One Ring with a spell such as Fiendfyre, refer to Scenario 1 for resolution.
Conclusion:
Due to limited knowledge about many of Sauron's capabilities, it is difficult to determine his exact combat potential. However, in a battle between two individuals toting phylactery-induced revive clauses, true victory is determined by defeat of the target AND destruction of the phylacteries.
In Sauron's favor is his phylactery's nature as a temptation device, which could lead to Voldemort squandering an initial victory. Additionally, his phylactery grants him significant combat improvements.
In Voldemort's favor are factors such as spells which seem particularly useful in destroying semi-invulnerable phylacteries, or even removing said phylactery from its host. Additionally, unlike Sauron, who requires his phylactery to reach his full potential and it is carried on his person, Voldemort's multiple phylacteries can be hidden and possess an inherent redundancy. There is also the game-breaking factor of the Killing Curse.
I'm inclined to favor Voldemort for a victory, but there is a good chance he could botch it through temptation, or Sauron could show particular initiative and follow up on an initial victory and destroy Voldemort's phylacteries.
Final Answer: Voldemort, but he needs a good bit of luck on his side, or Sauron will end up winning
A) Does the Killing Curse kill Sauron, and if so, how "dead" is the resulting Sauron?
B) If the Killing Curse only body-kills Sauron, how would Voldemort react/succumb to the One Ring?
-Scenario 1
If KC auto-kills Sauron, body and phylactery, at once, then its a done deal. Between flight, teleportation, and a host of other spells, it would take little more than a quick strike from range to OHKO Sauron. Victory for Voldemort.
-Scenario 2
If KC only kills Sauron's body, but does not destroy his soul (akin to Isildur's kill shot), there are a host of different outcomes, depending on Voldemort's decisions regarding the ring, and his ability to utilize it.
--Subscenario A
Voldemort resists the control of the One Ring, and for one reason or another, destroys it. Victory for Voldemort.
--Subscenario B
Voldemort uses the One Ring for his own ends, and as implied by individuals such as Galadriel, is strong enough to utilize its full potential. This, in tandem with his own powers and phylactery abilities, would likely allow him to establish himself as a world-power, and thus prevent any return of Sauron's soul. Victory for Voldemort, with perks.
--Subscenario C
Voldemort uses the One Ring for his own ends, but is not strong enough to resist its manipulations and/or not strong enough to utilize it enough to establish world dominance. Either through his own mistakes or a weakness in his planning, the One Ring is lost and inevitably returns to its true master. If he does not die in the process of losing the Ring, his own psyche would likely be so ruined by the loss of the Ring that it is unlikely he could ever muster an effective offensive against Sauron again, to say nothing of Sauron's preparations for a second assault, ending in a likely victory for Sauron. If he does die in the process, then victory for Sauron.
-Scenario 3
The KC has no effect on Sauron's body or soul, meaning it is a more or less fair fight between the brute strength and abilities of Sauron's fallen Maia nature and Voldemort's top-tier HP Universe magic. While I Voldemort could easily escape from said fight, if he were forced to fight to a standstill, I suspect that his magic would be of limited effectiveness against the Ring-enhanced Sauron, barring lucky shots like "accidentally severing a finger". A primary issue is a lack of info on what sort of anti-air combat Sauron might possess . . . Voldemort could just float above him and hurl spells until he got lucky, but then again, Sauron may have some sort of counter for this, or even the ability to reflect potent magic using the nearly invulnerable One Ring. For the sake of fairness, Voldemort wouldn't know that Sauron's power was primarily linked to the One Ring, so it would be a matter of Voldemort's magic taking down Sauron by luck and/or attrition until either his entire body were destroyed or the One Ring severed. I'd be willing to allow spells like Fiendfyre to destroy the One Ring, but only used as a matter of combat, not in a deliberate attempt to destroy the Ring.
Ultimately, with the above factors weighed, and if we assign Sauron the benefit of the doubt in terms of anti-air capabilities, I believe Voldemort would only win a battle by luck, with Sauron having a higher chance of out-enduring him and killing him. This leads to . . .
--Subscenario A
With his fresh victory against Voldemort complete, Sauron has the foresight to eliminate Voldemort's phylacteries (toss those suckers in Mt Doom!) and destroy the lingering soul before it returns to a living state. Victory for Sauron.
--Subscenario B
Either through neglect or an inability to find all of Voldemort's phylacteries, Sauron is unable to prevent Voldemort from returning to a living state in one form of another. With years to ponder his loss and research Sauron, he would likely learn the nature of the One Ring and deliberately target it with specific spells in a rematch. Assuming he can sever or remove the One Ring from Sauron's hand, refer to Scenario 2 for possible resolutions. If he is able to completely consume the One Ring with a spell such as Fiendfyre, refer to Scenario 1 for resolution.
Conclusion:
Due to limited knowledge about many of Sauron's capabilities, it is difficult to determine his exact combat potential. However, in a battle between two individuals toting phylactery-induced revive clauses, true victory is determined by defeat of the target AND destruction of the phylacteries.
In Sauron's favor is his phylactery's nature as a temptation device, which could lead to Voldemort squandering an initial victory. Additionally, his phylactery grants him significant combat improvements.
In Voldemort's favor are factors such as spells which seem particularly useful in destroying semi-invulnerable phylacteries, or even removing said phylactery from its host. Additionally, unlike Sauron, who requires his phylactery to reach his full potential and it is carried on his person, Voldemort's multiple phylacteries can be hidden and possess an inherent redundancy. There is also the game-breaking factor of the Killing Curse.
I'm inclined to favor Voldemort for a victory, but there is a good chance he could botch it through temptation, or Sauron could show particular initiative and follow up on an initial victory and destroy Voldemort's phylacteries.
Final Answer: Voldemort, but he needs a good bit of luck on his side, or Sauron will end up winning
Final Vote: Voldemort
Apparently I'm the ONLY person out of all 25 voters to vote for Voldemort.
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NoSoap
Eye of Cthulhu
Voldemort's forces are like a small army of gandalfs without the swordsmanship.
They would not be wise to face Sauron’s army head-on. I imagined they would use all sorts of unconventional methods to chip off their adversary. They will survive and put up quite a fight. The war will go on forever but they will eventually just be overwhelm by Sauron's never-ending forces.
Even if they do win, the remaining survivors will have to face Sauron and his deathless elites.
Sauron himself with his bs op rings will walk all over Voldemort not that Voldemort with his cunning and spells do not have the slightest chance of winning.
Unless Voldemort have a spell for holocaust, it'll be long before he could clean up all of Sauron's armies.
They would not be wise to face Sauron’s army head-on. I imagined they would use all sorts of unconventional methods to chip off their adversary. They will survive and put up quite a fight. The war will go on forever but they will eventually just be overwhelm by Sauron's never-ending forces.
Even if they do win, the remaining survivors will have to face Sauron and his deathless elites.
Sauron himself with his bs op rings will walk all over Voldemort not that Voldemort with his cunning and spells do not have the slightest chance of winning.
Unless Voldemort have a spell for holocaust, it'll be long before he could clean up all of Sauron's armies.
TheQuietBisharp
Official Terrarian
Sauron is the only one in which I know his powers, and I also really love the LoTR. I feel like it sorta depends on the battlefield, since half of Sauron's power is fear.
For Voldemort's Death Eaters, this could never be a single-battle endeavor. Even with 0% casualties and perfect accuracy, a group of 50 of them would take months to kill off the majority of Sauron's forces . . . this would, by necessity, be a war of attrition fought with guerrilla tactics and over hundreds of different battle fields.
While the number of spells and magic abilities within the repertoire of a highly skilled HP Universe magic user is beyond listing, there are a few particularly important ones that make all the difference:
- An instant death spell with virtually no limitations that cannot be blocked, only dodged, and can be used repeatedly. Has 100% success rate against living things, with an extremely minor number of examples where it did not work. As shown in HP, unlikely to fully kill something with an active phylactery, but could still deal grievous harm, if not bodily death.
- Access to magic brooms which have no real limitations on use, other than a practical knowledge of how to use them (this is taught to children under the age of 10, for reference)
- An insta-teleportation spell that, while stated to be difficult to master, was shown being used casually by all of Voldemort's Death Eaters. Can be used to bring other people as well.
- Access to defensive shield spells such as Protego, which can deflect projectiles and be sustained to protect a group
- Limited? access to a rarely used spell known as Fiendfyre, a huge AoE fire spell that spreads contagiously and is known to be able to destroy nearly indestructible magical artifacts.
- A limited and unexpanded upon number of rapid healing spells
Voldemort himself is not particularly MORE powerful than the average Death Eater. He is implied to be much faster a magic user (magic duels are often decided based on fastest reaction speed) than others, and he has access to a number of unusual spells. He also can survive death as long as his phylacteries are intact, though it takes him a heck of a long time to find a way to come back from the death. His one other unusual trait is free flying without a broom.
Its worth noting that Death Eaters are primarily, if not exclusively, comprised of wealthy, upper class elite magic users from the HP Universe, with the implication that all of them have at least acceptable levels of competency with magic use, and many having personally attended the most prestigious magic school in the HP Universe. They aren't grunts by any means, though they are not absolute top-tier.
So its basically worth considering, what could an eternally flying, teleporting, magic user with an unlimited instant death spell be at risk from, as long as they were out of archery range? What counters does Sauron or his forces have against this sort of assault? Lord of the Rings is a primarily ground based, melee centric war story, with the only air assets being the Eagles (air based melee) or Nazgul (air based melee with AoE fear debuff). There are no ranged air units like a HP Universe magic user, and archery range is insufficient to counter them.
So as I elaborated before, the war would never be decided by sheer numbers, but by a war of attrition to see which happens first: can the Death Eaters sufficiently cripple Sauron's army over a period of months before losing too many members to the Nazgul?
TheQuietBisharp
Official Terrarian
Have we factored Saruman into this? He was under Sauron's spell, but then again he wanted the ring. And I did read your entire rant, and it makes sense.
I believe that the horses of the Ringwraiths were normal, but the flying beasts were of some other orgin, as when one was killed, it stained the grass for years after.
My assessment of Saruman is based on the books, in which he is attempting to usurp Sauron . . . in essence, he was trying to be his own Dark Lord, and has reneged on a previous alliance. In the films, it is implied that he is still on Sauron's side, but there was never a successful point at which the two "combined forces", so I'm not going to toss him into the mix.
He, and he alone, would probably provide the greatest non-Sauron threat to the average Death Eater. I'm sure with his repertoire of magic he could find a way to kill a few of them, but alas . . . one Killing Curse would put an end to him, and he had no flight capabilities for mobility.
The Fell Beasts were surely supernatural in origin, and implied to be bred through dark magic, but were still living beings. According to HP Universe rules, no living thing can withstand a KC, with three exceptions: Harry, twice, for different reasons, and Voldemort once. (The reasons being a rarely used reflective spell that runs on love, the use of phylacteries to survive a bodily death, and the third time where it destroyed a phylactery instead of killing the target)
Two questions:
1. Sauron may likely only be ultimately destroyed through the ring, but his body is not invulnerable; the shards of the broken Narsil were able to sever his ring finger, effectively destroying his body for thousands of years. What is to say Voldemort's magic could not accomplish a similar feat, even if only by luck?
2. If Voldemort is flying and dishing out magic, how would Sauron hurt him? Surely Voldemort would be killed instantly by a single melee hit, but that implies Sauron was able to catch him.
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TheQuietBisharp
Official Terrarian
Not a 1v1, but a battle between their armies. Go check Leinfors's explanation up above.
How would the Nazgul hurt a Death Eater who is flying high in the sky, is capable of out-running a Fell Beast, and can insta-kill said Fell Beast from long distance? I'm not saying a Death Eater COULD kill a Nazgul, but they can knock them out of the sky, and thus, out of the fight.
Just curious how you see the Nazgul winning that engagement.