Why aren't we allowed to discuss modding the console and mobile versions?

[flarn2006]

I understand that modding is against the Xbox and PlayStation terms of use. Whatever the reason is for that, it doesn't change the fact that it's not something that hurts the community to have. So why does it have to be against the rules here as well? The forums aren't at all owned or controlled by Microsoft or Sony, so why do their rules have to be our rules as well? I know 505Games is bound by those rules, but that doesn't mean they share the desire to have them followed. They're not responsible for what other people do.

Maybe the rules say that they aren't allowed to encourage it. In fact, that wouldn't surprise me. However, "allowing discussion" doesn't necessarily mean "encouraging". Unless the rules say they have to do everything within their power to discourage it (which they might) that doesn't mean they need to prohibit discussion. And even then, isn't this forum owned by Re-Logic, not 505Games? Since the console version was made by a different company, that means it's them that are bound by the Xbox/PlayStation developer rules, and not Re-Logic, so Re-Logic is free to do whatever they want on their forums. Can someone from 505Games shed some light on what exactly the rules are regarding this, and possibly point me to where the rules are posted online and the correct section?

Another thing that's confusing me is about the mobile versions. Why would the same things be prohibited here with those versions? I understand that Apple tries to control iOS apps in a similar manner, but I don't think they go to the same lengths as with video game consoles. I skimmed through the terms and conditions for developers, and I can't find any section with a similar prohibition on "encouraging" as mentioned before. If there is and I overlooked it, the same applies as in the previous paragraph.

But there's also an Android version. Android is designed to allow open development of applications. It's not perfect, in that it doesn't give the end user total control over the device, but like with iOS, there are ways to get that. Unlike with iOS, however, doing so doesn't go against the terms set by the OS developer, in this case Google. So I don't see why it would be prohibited with that version. Even distributing save files is prohibited--why? I get that that's one of the things that for some reason isn't possible by default on Android (Google really needs to give the user some official way to access apps' private data) but it's not prohibited by any of Google's terms like it is for the console versions. So why can't we discuss it here?

I'm not trying to say this forum sucks or anything, or that I think the developers should violate their terms and risk no longer being able to distribute Terraria through official channels. I'm also neither saying I plan on breaking these rules nor encouraging anyone else to do so. So don't get the wrong idea. All I'm asking is why the rules are what they are, in hopes that a forum staff member can explain the rationale, and (importantly) what they fear will happen if they don't have these rules.

Thank you for taking the time to read my concerns.

 

[Bethany]

The rules post covers it pretty well, I think.

From http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...-rules-culture-please-read.53/#piracy_modding :

505Games has issued the following statement for all Console platforms:

"We would like to remind Terraria console users that editing the core files of their game is strictly forbidden, as is modifying core game content and distributing saved games.

Altering game files and distributing game saves not only voids your right to technical support from us but is moreover prohibited by both Sony and Microsoft and could result in direct punishment. Anyone altering their game does it at their own risk and risks having their game not be compatible with future updates and/or content.

The distribution of save/hacked console files is strictly prohibited on the [Re-Logic] forums. These files are from unknown origins, are untested, and not only risk your ability to play and enjoy the game, but could potentially create a security risk to your personal data stored on your device. Anyone distributing these types of files will be warned and the files will be removed. Repeat offenders are subject to disciplinary action at the discretion of the community moderators.

By distributing modified files a malicious user could damage players' systems, and the forum would act as a force multiplier for such malice. (Why would anyone do that? Why would anyone grief in PvP? Because some people enjoy being malicious twerps while hiding behind Internet anonymity.) I consider it prudent and sensible for the forum's operators to have established rules against this. If I were running the forum I'd want similar rules to avoid potential player catastrophes, or maybe even legal liability.

 

[GoldenTerrabyte]

The rules post covers it pretty well, I think.

From http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...-rules-culture-please-read.53/#piracy_modding :



By distributing modified files a malicious user could damage players' systems, and the forum would act as a force multiplier for such malice. (Why would anyone do that? Why would anyone grief in PvP? Because some people enjoy being malicious twerps while hiding behind Internet anonymity.) I consider it prudent and sensible for the forum's operators to have established rules against this. If I were running the forum I'd want similar rules to avoid potential player catastrophes, or maybe even legal liability.

But with that said, why is it okay for PC?

 

[Bethany]

But with that said, why is it okay for PC?

Other than the specific item about Sony's and Microsoft's policies, I couldn't say. Maybe it's tougher to inflict damage this way on PC than console or mobile. Or it might be that 505 is more uptight about these things.

 

[Hie the Badger]

But with that said, why is it okay for PC?

Because when you signed a contract with the respective console company you agreed not to mod it. This isn't a PC vs Console situation. There are agreements like this on PC as well but people do it anyway and no one enforces it (because they don't have the power to).

It doesn't matter why they don't want you to mod, they said you cant.

 

[Kyouko Tsukino]

"It doesn't hurt the community." If the asshats bureaucrats from Micro$oft or $ony decide to take measures against sites providing tips on modding/modded files for console or mobile devices, then it will hurt the community greatly, I would say.

It's the console makers we have to shield this community against. There's other communities out there who deal with modding in console and mobile games - you can discuss those things as much as you like there. Not linking to them for obvious reasons.

 

[flarn2006]

"It doesn't hurt the community." If the asshats bureaucrats from Micro$oft or $ony decide to take measures against sites providing tips on modding/modded files for console or mobile devices, then it will hurt the community greatly, I would say.

It's the console makers we have to shield this community against. There's other communities out there who deal with modding in console and mobile games - you can discuss those things as much as you like there. Not linking to them for obvious reasons.

What kind of "measures" would they be able to take?

Also why would that apply to the mobile versions as well, especially the Android one?

 

[Akrasia]

Modding for PC used to be against the rules too. Then someone went ahead and did it anyways, as well as posted how to make more mods. Before the forum moderators could do anything about it, dozen mods sprouted and then there was even tAPI. Eventually red had no choice but to accept modding for the game.

I assume that if a similar thing happens on console/mobile, it will eventually be allowed - although please dont try doing it, as the only reason that solution will work is by forcing them into a corner - If they accept modding, do it by reasoning with them, not uploading mods all over the internet.

 

[Kyouko Tsukino]

What kind of "measures" would they be able to take?

Also why would that apply to the mobile versions as well, especially the Android one?

1- Suing, closing down the site, prosecuting those involved in those forbidden activities.

2- Because those guys are also "bureaucratic."

As xland44 said above, it used to be forbidden for PC too. Still while Re-Logic is okay with modding for PC (now) the guys at the big name gaming companies - specially console makers - aren't as nice nor permissive on things they forbid - they've got their 'customers' by the gonads, and know it well.

 

[Xylia]

Because when you signed a contract with the respective console company you agreed not to mod it. This isn't a PC vs Console situation. There are agreements like this on PC as well but people do it anyway and no one enforces it (because they don't have the power to).

It doesn't matter why they don't want you to mod, they said you cant.

While I don't want to start a PC vs Console/Mobile Flamewar, one DOES have to consider the facts.

When you buy a Mobile Device, you sign a contract and only certain trusted developers can release apps for these, and only those apps can be used, IIRC.
When you buy an Xbox or a PS3/4, you enter into an agreement when you set up your online account on MS Live or the PSN, which basically says the same thing.

With a PC... no such thing exists. Valve doesn't care about you modding your games, unless you're using something like Cheat Engine in a game that is CE-protected (online games, usually).

Also, the OS for PC is very lenient, and it allows you to do whatever you want with it. MS made it that way on purpose. The OS's for consoles/mobile, however, was not designed with this purpose in mind. To GET said modded files on these devices, you usually need to do illegal activities.

Also, people usually store sensitive information on their phones -- camera pictures, any kind of bank info, contact lists, phone numbers, etc. Mobile companies don't want people risking their own private details on something like modded game files (these can come with viruses, etc).

PCs have Anti-virus tools, and everybody knows you need to run em to stay safe. In fact, you usually need more than one type of protection.

Either way, it's against the rules... and that's one of the things you need to accept when you choose to run the console/mobile versions of Terraria (or any other game for that matter). Wanna mod? You'll have to go to PC.

At least the game is cheap, $10... frequently discounted. During this last sale, it was $2.74 for a few days.

 

[Bethany]

Good points, @Xylia. I don't entirely agree with the console manufacturers' decision to forbid modding and such, but I understand their reasons for doing so. Same reason IT departments won't let employees install un-vetted software on company-supplied machines. Support nightmare.

I install what I like on my PC and am self-supporting not counting the athletic bra. That's one luxury of working mostly as a one-person creative team, and on thankfully rare occasions, one of the drawbacks. But I digress.

 

[Xylia]

Good points, @Xylia. I don't entirely agree with the console manufacturers' decision to forbid modding and such, but I understand their reasons for doing so. Same reason IT departments won't let employees install un-vetted software on company-supplied machines. Support nightmare.

I install what I like on my PC and am self-supporting not counting the athletic bra. That's one luxury of working mostly as a one-person creative team, and on thankfully rare occasions, one of the drawbacks. But I digress.

Yeah, I build my own PCs, and I troubleshoot em too, unless there's a multiple-choice answer and I am unable to test it (I had a bad PSU once, and did not have any other PSUs to test it, so I took it to a shop to see if it really was the PSU that was shot... turned out my original instinct was right; it WAS the PSU just like I thought).

That's why I feel comfortable downloading and running stuff; I know how to troubleshoot problems and if it really got REAL bad, I can just reformat and reinstall Windows, probably have at most 3h of downtime.

 

[fffffffffffffffff]

Anyone who mods their console version of the game does so at their own risk and it is not condoned, so this type of censorship is unexcused and redundant. Unless Re-Logic is contractually obligated to actively discourage it, which seems absurd as again, neither they or microsoft/sony are liable if a player damages their own software or save files, this sort of restriction seems arbitrary and ill-planned. Banning discussion on how to use developer items makes sense as players using those conflicts directly with the interest of Re-Logic, but banning topics that have no negative consequence for anyone but those willing to accept the potential consequences simply toxifies the whole environment.

TL;DR, Anyone using the excuse that it's for the player's own safety or that it has a negetive impact is hypocritical, as the PC modding community has not only been allowed to flourish, but it was one of the few things that kept Terraria and it's community alive after 1.1.

 

[Kyouko Tsukino]

I think "Re-Logic" being the only one mentioned already shows a total lack of information, but hey, I'm just a PC player who knows it's 505 who's being dragged by the balls by the Big Console Makers... What do I kno- Oh wait.

 

[fffffffffffffffff]

When you buy a Mobile Device, you sign a contract and only certain trusted developers can release apps for these, and only those apps can be used, IIRC.

Only on apple. Android users can install any APK file they like (sometimes you have to change a setting to allow this, but it is nonethelesss allowed by Google.)

 

[Xylia]

TL;DR, Anyone using the excuse that it's for the player's own safety or that it has a negetive impact is hypocritical, as the PC modding community has not only been allowed to flourish, but it was one of the few things that kept Terraria and it's community alive after 1.1.

PCs can download and place files in a game directory and can download things like tAPI easily, and things like tAPI are trusted and PCs have Antivirus software to make sure viruses don't creep into downloads.

Consoles, however, do not have these protections. Do you run an Antivirus on your console? No, you do not. Why? You don't need to -- all software available on the console comes from trusted sources, same for Mobile.

 

[fffffffffffffffff]

I think "Re-Logic" being the only one mentioned already shows a total lack of information, but hey, I'm just a PC player who knows it's 505 who's being dragged by the balls by the Big Console Makers... What do I kno- Oh wait.

IIRC these forums are owned and operated by Re-Logic, if that is the case then while 505 can ask as nicely as they like for it to be banned, they have no real power. On the other hand, if it is a joint ownership or something of the like, that changes things.

 

[Bethany]

sometimes you have to change a setting to allow this

"Tap the magic invisible button seven times, then toss the fairy dust over your right shoulder."

 

[Kyouko Tsukino]

I give up, then. It's obvious some people just don't want to understand the issue.

 

[Xylia]

IIRC these forums are owned and operated by Re-Logic, if that is the case then while 505 can ask as nicely as they like for it to be banned, they have no real power. On the other hand, if it is a joint ownership or something of the like, that changes things.

It's called good business practices.

Re-Logic can refuse to ban such activity on forums, but then if they do that, 505 can refuse to continue to release updates for Console/Mobile Terraria and Re-Logic loses out on royalties.