Neutral Effect
Steampunker
Yep, we should go back on track. Though personally I can't imagine what people could say now, as everything's on place. Maybe someone will make some interesting idea, but even if so, I doubt we haven't seen it before.
Weapons & Equip Ranged may require some tweaks...
- Thread starter Kardfogu
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Tyrax Lightning
Terrarian
Sweet! I always liked the Light Discs... Homing Versions of them sound awesome! How many do I have to farm for a Full Stack & what's the Max Stack Limit on them?
For the Topic: I got another idea... A Gun that shoots big bullets that explode into a shower of smaller bullets that explode into a 3rd burst of smaller ammo that'd be kinda like having fired a LOT of Bullets per Bullet. This'd help with Ammo Consumption & Damage at the same time. In a way, it'd be kinda like shooting Bullets that act like Frag Grenades that explode into a shower of smaller Frag Grenades that explode into a big shower of deadly Shrapnel.
That would be a good replacement for the Celebration.Sweet! I always liked the Light Discs... Homing Versions of them sound awesome! How many do I have to farm for a Full Stack & what's the Max Stack Limit on them?
For the Topic: I got another idea... A Gun that shoots big bullets that explode into a shower of smaller bullets that explode into a 3rd burst of smaller ammo that'd be kinda like having fired a LOT of Bullets per Bullet. This'd help with Ammo Consumption & Damage at the same time. In a way, it'd be kinda like shooting Bullets that act like Frag Grenades that explode into a shower of smaller Frag Grenades that explode into a big shower of deadly Shrapnel.
Kardfogu
Steampunker
True.
This is my last reply to you if you truly want it that way, I accept.
Well, you can't imagine how much help you are.
As for constructive goes, Terraria have changed a lot.kardfogu said:
I've been playing Terraria since 1.0.6.1 - as a lot of you might already know as I repeat myself about that always - and it changed so much I can't even recall how the GUI worked back then, I'd really miss some important things...
...like half of my chests and the huge stack sizes we have now.
We had 5 unique armor sets back then and only three major damage types, later 1.1 gave us one armor set for everyone and 1.2 changed it "back" so we had unique sets again, okay, there was only one lategame set for each damage type, but a 4th damage type was introduced as well.
I think Terraria is on a good way, we just need a couple more steps.
When Terraria 1.2.4.1 was released, I felt this is almost the absolute version that can't be really improved.
When Terraria 1.3 was released, I felt like a whole new world opened up and I already see a large part of the 1.3.1 change log. I believe we'll get Sandstone, Demonite, Crimtane furniture. I believe we might get more armor sets.
And I hope the Star Cannon returns to it's glory.
Anybody who knows me should already expect me to cut to the point exactly now. Imagine a weapon crafted from Star Cannon and Luminite Bars, shooting ammo crafted purely from stars. That would be my first idea for a crafted weapon beyond the Moon Lord. Crafting it from a large amount of guaranteed drop item - Luminite - would also solve the problems with the RNG of course. No more items in the drop table.
As I've managed to decipher, Relogic devs like to have endgame weapons with "stories" and "ancestors" already connected to the game, things that fit in the line of already existing content. As a "fishguns", S.D.M.G. pretty much stands in the line. Star Wrath also stands in the line nicely, it's pretty much a pure 100% nostalgia-blade. We all know how long we've been teased with Meowmere which I think was originally meant to be a mere - pun intended - joke. All these have their own stories connected to the development of Terraria.
Star Cannon DOES have this ancestral connection to the game, I can imagine an upgrade forged from it would stand in the line just as well.
Well, Crystal bullets do that to an extent and I'd say, it is our best general purpose ammo for being cheap and effective at the same time. Guns doing the same... ...that would be conflicting with the behaviour of the bullets, but the idea is awesome and I'd like to see something like that anyways.For the Topic: I got another idea... A Gun that shoots big bullets that explode into a shower of smaller bullets that explode into a 3rd burst of smaller ammo that'd be kinda like having fired a LOT of Bullets per Bullet. This'd help with Ammo Consumption & Damage at the same time. In a way, it'd be kinda like shooting Bullets that act like Frag Grenades that explode into a shower of smaller Frag Grenades that explode into a big shower of deadly Shrapnel.
Xenopopper has a slightly similar mechanic. If a gun shoots a special projectile that ignores bullet properties and that projectile shoots the actual bullets, yes, it could be possible to do the "flak cannon" you just described while still keeping the bullet properties to an extent.
So it is pretty much possible with Terraria's already existing mechanics which is awesome.
XiaoThePotato
Skeletron Prime
Dude, star cannon upgrade would be amazing for ranged.
If the devs would replace the Celebration with that...
*nerdgasm*
If the devs would replace the Celebration with that...
*nerdgasm*
Kardfogu
Steampunker
Actually I had this up in my sleeve for days and I've been waiting for people to suggest it, but IIRC noone did, poor Star Cannon is long-forgotten... ...for reasons as it used one of the worst ammo ever, but I love that gun anyways for what it stood for.
Star Cannon was like: Great power for a high price.
Tyrax Lightning
Terrarian
Ahh, I didn't know that. I haven't really ever played Range except for if I 'borrow' Range Power's help vs things that I wasn't able to figure out how to beat with melee. Example being borrowing the Harpoon's help vs Normal Mode Eater of Worlds in pre-1.3 play in combo with being Grappled down in a small hole... most often the small hole the Orb I busted to Summon him used to be in a moment ago.
Truthfully I rarely use ammo using Guns other then the sweet awesome Flare Gun + Blue Flares cause getting Ammo's a pain in the butt I don't need. I salute ya Rangers for being able to stand this. (Sometimes for funsies I screw around with Flamethrower kinda Guns when I have a million Gel to literally burn for fun... )Yeah, can imagine how not everyone would wanna need a Skybridge for Star Harvesting, but I agree Star Cannon's real fun. Also doesn't help that Fallen Star max stack size is 99 instead of 999, & it's annoying that fallen stars do -1 damage on purpose & penalize the damage the Star Cannon wants to do.
Alas, it's even gotten rendered obsolete in terms of gun with the hardest Ammo to farm... by the Coin Gun & its Plat Coins + the fact that the Coin Gun damage can be sabotaged by the picking up of money that could suddenly start firing off the lower tier coins instead... screw that hassle.
Neutral Effect
Steampunker
And again we wouldn't get it buffed by any Shroomite head piece?
Yeah, I support your idea. Just wanted to mention how broken Shroomite set is.
Kats
Pixel Pirate
Shroomite/Vortex(?) armor set bonus suggestion:
Increased damage to enemy depending how close the mouse cursor is to it.
Would need more accuracy for it, but would give you a proper reward for actually caring about where you aim, instead of using chlorohyte and aim wherever.
Just a dumb idea I thought of just now, didn't really put much thought into it. :>
Won't say any % though as I'm bad with balance. xP
Increased damage to enemy depending how close the mouse cursor is to it.
Would need more accuracy for it, but would give you a proper reward for actually caring about where you aim, instead of using chlorohyte and aim wherever.
Just a dumb idea I thought of just now, didn't really put much thought into it. :>
Won't say any % though as I'm bad with balance. xP
Neutral Effect
Steampunker
Pretty interesting, though there would be several problems with it (ex. damage increase when firing or actually hitting enemy; buff working on nearest enemy only or all in radius; what about multitargeting weapons). Though if these would be passed, I'd like to see it as new Shroomite armor set bonus (together with only one helmet for it), as IMO vorte needs something really coolShroomite/Vortex(?) armor set bonus suggestion:
Increased damage to enemy depending how close the mouse cursor is to it.
Would need more accuracy for it, but would give you a proper reward for actually caring about where you aim, instead of using chlorohyte and aim wherever.
Just a dumb idea I thought of just now, didn't really put much thought into it. :>
Won't say any % though as I'm bad with balance. xP
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Kardfogu
Steampunker
True, additional Shroomite helmets should be removed, converting the damage bonus on the remaining ones to generic ranged damage bonus. Not that important, but it would be nice.
Actually I love the idea. GC_dzbanek is right about how implementing this kind of set bonus would be a pain, but the idea is something that would truly benefit skilled ranged gameplay generally.Shroomite/Vortex(?) armor set bonus suggestion:
Increased damage to enemy depending how close the mouse cursor is to it.
Would need more accuracy for it, but would give you a proper reward for actually caring about where you aim, instead of using chlorohyte and aim wherever.
Just a dumb idea I thought of just now, didn't really put much thought into it. :>
Won't say any % though as I'm bad with balance. xP
As for giving this bonus to Shroomite, within it's tier, Shroomite wasn't that bad as the same tier ranged weapons were quite strong, making up for how bad Shroomite's set bonus was in heavy combat - except for the first ~6 wave of any Moon invasion event.
In short:
The weapons were cool in 1.2, so we didn't mind Shroomite's lacking features. Of course, the reverse is true, we wouldn't mind Vortex being crap, if the same tier weapons weren't crap as well.
Of course I'd like to see a different Shroomite instead of the current... ...but that would make Shroomite far superior to Vortex as of now.
Which actually opens up quite a lot of options actually. It would be interesting if post Moon Lord and previous highest tier armors were more in line. Not reasonable as post Moon Lord stuff are meant to be the ultimate toys, but it would be interesting nonetheless.
Solar Flare and Beetle are quite close to each other, Beetle Scale is slightly stronger for general warrior DPS, while Beetle Mail is slightly stronger for tanking, Solar Flare in general is superior for being good at both offense and defense. Solar Flare is superior, but not THAT overwhelmingly. Not to mention that Solar Flare rewards skill generously, offering a constant 30% damage reduction if you don't take damage too often.
Nebula is hands down insanely powerful, it's buffs are far more supportive than the heal offered by Spectre Hood - Nebula even heals crowds of players better -, at the same time it is much more damaging than the Spectre Mask. Except if there are multiple mages, in that case, Spectre Mask user will deal more damage under the effects of Nebula buff gained from someone else. Generally speaking Nebula armor is just overwhelmingly superior to Spectre. Nebula again interestingly rewards skill slightly... ...not like it would be hard to pick up buffs every 8 second, but at least it's not all about sitting in one place like Spectre Hood abusers did!
Vortex Armor is almost the same as Shroomite, the difference is that Vortex allows slow movement and Shroomite got nerfed in 1.3 so that taking damage turns Shroomite stealth off. Obviously, that makes Vortex Armor overwhelmingly superior to Shroomite.
GawenStarTeller
Retinazer
I'm not sure I entirely agree with this suggestion. Let's say all of your points are valid, which in my opinion some of them definitely aren't, but that aside... why? Okay, so Ranged is lagging behind all the other classes. So? It can be expected that some classes are more powerful than others, and if you like being a Ranger than that's fine, you just have to deal with being slightly less powerful.
All I see with these 'buff' or 'nerf' classes is people trying to get others to play their favourite class. You can still win the game being a Ranger, can't you? I know that I can, so unless you can only get the Moon Lord down to 12500 health before being completely destroyed, then I'll see it as right to buff or nerf classes.
All I see with these 'buff' or 'nerf' classes is people trying to get others to play their favourite class. You can still win the game being a Ranger, can't you? I know that I can, so unless you can only get the Moon Lord down to 12500 health before being completely destroyed, then I'll see it as right to buff or nerf classes.
Neutral Effect
Steampunker
But they should all be in line, except some specialised situations.
Apart from that, it's not about Ranger being total crap - just a lot less powerful compared to Melee and Magic. It's about having fun from playing the game, which being that weak (compared to others) is ruining.
GawenStarTeller
Retinazer
But that's the thing; what's wrong with Magic and Melee being more powerful? It's not like because of this the Ranger isn't your favourite class (at least, on the basis of the thread. Not sure if it's yours), and the only time I can think that it would matter is if you're on a multiplayer world and somebody else is a Mage, and you get sort of jealous of the damage they're dealing.
And I wouldn't exactly say that the damage Rangers deal is too bad. Most of the class actually revolves around the properties of ammo, and the fact that all of them can inflict multiple debuffs no matter what weapon you're using. Plus it is sort of good that all Ranged weapons get a default critical strike chance of 8% compared to the normal 4% because the effects of the ammo and the weapon stack, and any armour that increases said critical strike chance not only increases the weapon's stat, but the bullets in your inventory as well.
As such, I've always seen Ranger as more of the class that uses debuffs that other weapons won't have access to their advantage, but I even though I've never had a problem with getting chorofulwhateveritsspelled bullets, I can see the problem there. As well with other materials to make them; farming all those Ichor Stickers in my most recent world was brutal. But why homing bullets that do nothing other than that? Even with cone-shaped firing capabilities, is it that hard to aim and inflict other lasting effects such as Cursed Flames or Ichor?
I dunno. I've always seen Ranger as more of the most balanced class than anything else, and kind of want it to stay like that...
totallydeadaccountdude
Terrarian
Ranger isn't balanced. It's "Go X weapon or go home". And even then for later stages of the game you're probably going to NEED Ichor/Golden Shower. Shroomite is the most counterproductive armor in the game, giving benefits when STANDING STILL. I'm not sure with Vortex, since I gave up at Post-Golem as Ranger.
DarkVenom
Skeletron
Vortex is Mediocore but with the Ability of "Stealth"...it Gives even more Damage but..You move like a
ed Sloth that took Cocaine...at Endgame we only have 3 Good Ranged weapons.....while Warriors and Mages get like 4-6 weapons that do a very good amount of DMG....atleast they could give us More Variaty...totallydeadaccountdude
Terrarian
Stealth in general should be removed. It's a worthless mechanic that doesn't fit in the game.Vortex is Mediocore but with the Ability of "Stealth"...it Gives even more Damage but..You move like a
GawenStarTeller
Retinazer
Balanced in the fact it deals decent damage and has decent defence compared to Melee's high defence but (slightly harder to obtain) DPS and Mage's high burst damage but low defence. The only reason both Mage and Melee have lifesteal is because they need it for certain situations. Melee because they're always in direct combat, and Mage because they're already frail and easily destroyed.
I've never had a problem with Shroomite, though the bonus in itself is pretty
ty. Though when you look at it, what are the other bonuses before hand? The only one I can think of that isn't something that only effects stats is the armour right before it, which has a useless crystal that shoots things. But I'm pretty sure Shroomite actually gives more bonuses statistically, and has more defence, so you're more powerful on that front, and the set bonus is just that:A bonus.
Think of it has something that is beneficial should it happen, but not something you should be basing your entire strategy around.
Also, I'm crazy, arguing on a thread about buffing Rangers when hardly anyone's going to see my opinion.
totallydeadaccountdude
Terrarian
The extra defense isn't much. At all. Especially on Normal Mode.Balanced in the fact it deals decent damage and has decent defence compared to Melee's high defence but (slightly harder to obtain) DPS and Mage's high burst damage but low defence. The only reason both Mage and Melee have lifesteal is because they need it for certain situations. Melee because they're always in direct combat, and Mage because they're already frail and easily destroyed.
I've never had a problem with Shroomite, though the bonus in itself is pretty
A bonus.
Think of it has something that is beneficial should it happen, but not something you should be basing your entire strategy around.
Also, I'm crazy, arguing on a thread about buffing Rangers when hardly anyone's going to see my opinion.
The ranger's REALLLLLY hard to get high damage with, meanwhile all you really have to do with Melee is pick up a Influx Waver or a Possessed Hatchet and it's GG. And they have high
range.Shroomite is SO much weaker compared to the other armors, Beetle makes you either a killing machine or a unstoppable tank. Spectre can heal you a TON OR give you a super huge amount of DPS. Shroomite gives extra damage when standing still for long periods of time..... yay?
Even if it is just a bonus, it NEEDS to be on par with the other armors of that specific tier.
Don't get me started on the fact that helmets limit how much damage you can do. My god.
Kardfogu
Steampunker
Well, in any other circumstance, you might had have a point there...
...but I don't want others to play my class. I myself want to play my class, because I don't like to at the moment, it's not fun shooting with a degenerated fish without any nice numbers or some positive reinforcement of any other kind. Ranged is simply not satisfying.
Single player ranged works, I see your point, but after a point it is boring to farm for ammo when I want to farm for something else. Farmception: to farm so that you can farm harder. Obviously, one can always build a farm from traps... ...against monsters and bosses. You can't actually AFK farm ammo like you farm bossdrops with teleporter-based AFK farms.
Except Crystal Bullets, you'll better learn to love Crystal Bullets and depleting multiple chests of it in a gameplay session. xD
Way better to play melee or mage for singleplayer as you can concentrate on the action instead of the farming.
Well, mages are more tanky than ranged. You might see them having 16 less armor, so they take 8 more damage. Actually you your forget the fact they heal more than 8 HP every single second and it's quite hard to take damage more often than every 0.66 second.
And since 1.2 I haven't seen anyone in hardmode, ever hitting anything with a sword, other than a statue-spawned creature.
*khm*Horseman's Blade*khm*
Actually I consider Horseman's Blade the ultimate ranged weapon for shooting dozens of high damage terrain ignoring homing projectiles.
Terra Blade anyone with a range over 2000 blocks? Melee? Really? xD
Melee is not melee and they don't go any closer to anything than ranged players. The melee weapon with the shortest range lategame has actually a range of a full screen.
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