Weapons & Equip Armor balance changes.

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
Shadow Armor

The Problem
Shadow armor is basically the cobalt armor of pre hardmode, its stats are bad, and its crafted at the same time as a pickaxe used to obtain a much better armor.
The best melee weapons in pre hardmode are yoyo's and flails which get very little out of its melee speed, and that movement speed is practically useless once you get hermes.

The Change
Let's take some notes from crimson armor, decent defense, mediocre offense, and a great defensive set bonus.
Change the 7% melee speed on each piece to 2% critical chance.
Make the set bonus a 15% chance to dodge an attack.
Ancient shadow armor is now crafted at a demon alter using its modern counterpat's materials, making it much less grindy to obtain, and preventing people from getting a now good armor set pre boss.


Obsidian Armor

The Problem
It just makes whips way to good, whips are normally reliant on tag bonuses to be useful but obsidian armor makes them a massive distrupting hitbox, with good dps on their own, that turns to high dps when you add in the tags. Some people even use this set into late hardmode, and although I don't think its THAT good, its clearly over tuned.
Also more summon damage than tiki... come on.

The Change
Reduce the whip bonuses from, 35% speed, 50% range to 30% speed, and 30% range.
Reduce the minion damage on the set bonus from 15%->8% (this brings the total from 31%->24%)



Cobalt Armor

The Problem
Cobalt armor is the cobalt armor of hardmode, its stats are bad, and it uses the same materials to craft a pickaxe to get a better armor set.

The Change
Cobalt Leggings:
damage 3%->5%
movement speed 10%->25%

Cobalt Breastplate:
critical chance 5%->10%

This may not be the most creative solution but at least the gap between mythril armor and cobalt armor isn't as big, and gives it a more noticeable offensive advantage over palladium
That cobalt breastplate may see some use as a cheap alternative to the frost breastplate.

Orichalcum Armor

The Problem

See my analysis of this armor

The Change
I want to do 2 things to this armor
The first thing, make the petals smart bounce of the FIRST enemy they hit, since the petals come in at random angles its rare they they will actually do a crowd control, to the point where mythril armor's stats outperfom it in crowd control settings. With this change they will realign themselves so they can actually be good against crowds, and make the petals more reliable at doing 'collateral damage' underground.

The next thing is expand on its weird stats, the helmet and mask are the only head pieces in the game that give movement speed.
Each head piece now has 10% move speed

The chest piece now also has 10% movespeed
Buff the movespeed on the leggings 11%->30%

In total the movement speed will be 50%, this could unironically make the panic necklace useful in early hardmode.

Hallowed Armor

The Problem
That set bonus... is kinda op, negates an attack roughly every 30 seconds, in master mode you die after roughly 2-4 hits, so just negating 1 of those is powerful, and its even crazier agianst enraged Empress of light where worse case it doubles the players survivability. The only thing that comes close to this beetle armor, and that has both low offense and is available later.

The change
Instead of negating an attack completely make it reduce damage taken by 50%. This tones it down to a more reasonable level and prevents players from trivializing the enraged empress fight.

Tiki armor

The Problem
So... in early hardmode you get spider, which has 28% summon damage and 3 minions, 4 bosses and 1.5 plat later and all I get is +2% summon damage and +1 minion, and 1 event later you get an armor set with almost double the summon damage.

The Change
Give the tiki mask 30% whip range bonus, just a little perk to make the set more tempting, it could also be cool for some whip oriented mixes sets.
 
Related to Obsidian Armor is Bee Armor, which I think needs a buff to go along with Obsidian Armor’s nerf. I don’t see people making the connection often, but Summoner was considered the weakest class for late prehardmode until 1.4.1 and I think Bee Armor being kind of bad is partly to blame for that (of course, there were other reasons too). Spider Armor also could use a buff because summoners have a bit of a hard time with the Queen Slime and it’s not all that much more than Bee is.

Bee could be reworked into a sort of hybrid set, because Obsidian would always naturally be the first choice of pure summoners because of whip bonuses, and if it wasn’t then the armor is doing its job wrong.
 
I agree with all of this, except for Hallowed Armour. It is one of the best armour sets there is, because of the complete removal of damage that allows it to useful for all classes. Changing it to 50% damage reduction would essentially make it an any-class armour with a melee set bonus. Do I need to explain why that is melee-focused? Also, that change would make daytime Empress of Light even harder, because not everyone is a pro gamer who can memorize the pattern very well and focus at the required level to cope with anything. If you want to nerf it, I’d say increase the dodge cooldown.
 
I agree with all of this, except for Hallowed Armour. It is one of the best armour sets there is, because of the complete removal of damage that allows it to useful for all classes. Changing it to 50% damage reduction would essentially make it an any-class armour with a melee set bonus. Do I need to explain why that is melee-focused? Also, that change would make daytime Empress of Light even harder, because not everyone is a pro gamer who can memorize the pattern very well and focus at the required level to cope with anything. If you want to nerf it, I’d say increase the dodge cooldown.

I can agree with that. I’d make the cooldown on the dodge much longer if you get hit, at maybe a minute rather than 30 seconds. It’s the same degree of a nerf without reworking the gimmick the armor offers and keeping it with the bonuses it already provides.
 
I agree with all of this, except for Hallowed Armour. It is one of the best armour sets there is, because of the complete removal of damage that allows it to useful for all classes. Changing it to 50% damage reduction would essentially make it an any-class armour with a melee set bonus. Do I need to explain why that is melee-focused? Also, that change would make daytime Empress of Light even harder, because not everyone is a pro gamer who can memorize the pattern very well and focus at the required level to cope with anything.
how is it a melee set bonus? All I'm suggesting is changing the complete dodge with a 50% damage reduction.

Daytime empress drops a weapon that's basicly on the same level as post moonlord weapons, its too powerful for a casual player to just get every playthrough with relatively little trouble.
 
I only have two critiques & they concern the Summoner's Armor sets. 🤔🥤
  • Tiki Armor, I think is fine as is, because it's one of the few times a player is allowed to buy their way to success. When items are locked behind a paywall, they can be very tricky to balance, because some players have difficulty generating money, but are great at Bossing & some are bad at Bossing, but great at financing. Tiki being able to compete with Spooky Armor is a very slippery slope & having a total of five (5) Minions to play around with, by default (not including external buffs), for only 1 Platinum+, is already it's own Meta in Hardmode.
  • Obsidian Armor, unfortunately, has to remain as is I'm afraid. Not sure why this common opinion is still the case, but many Players tend to greatly under-sale the power of Bee Armor & it's tier. You can't even look at the Armor Set in a vacuum, because the player is granted access to a plethora of destructive weaponry, once the ability to craft Bee Gear is possible; this is nearly the same case for Obsidian Armor, only reaching it's potential if a Player chooses to main Whips.
    • Bee Armor, is arguably more for a player like myself, who isn't bothered by using a Hybrid Class, as there's really nothing lost by using Bee Grenades, The Bee Bow or Hive Pack (Bee Gear is like hitting the power-spike lotto).
    • When taken into account, Obsidian Armor is only slightly better than Bee Tier Loot (collectively), but only because it's more focused & deliberate in it's design, high-risk-high reward. Plus, the 50% Whip length has to remain, it's just too much fun to remove.
Honestly, I'm quite surprised the team was able to pull any of this off, trying to balance the difference between pre-Hardmode to Hardmode Armor sets + Whips, aside from Spider Gear, must've been an absolute nightmare.
 
Related to Obsidian Armor is Bee Armor, which I think needs a buff to go along with Obsidian Armor’s nerf. I don’t see people making the connection often, but Summoner was considered the weakest class for late prehardmode until 1.4.1 and I think Bee Armor being kind of bad is partly to blame for that (of course, there were other reasons too). Spider Armor also could use a buff because summoners have a bit of a hard time with the Queen Slime and it’s not all that much more than Bee is.

Bee could be reworked into a sort of hybrid set, because Obsidian would always naturally be the first choice of pure summoners because of whip bonuses, and if it wasn’t then the armor is doing its job wrong.
I didn't want to buff bee armor too much because that would require buffing spider armor, and spider armor with sanguine bats is already strong. In my orichalcum armor analysis just switching from adamantite to spider on an all lucky ranger build dominated every other single target test.

The bigger issue issue with bee armor is that the best pre hardmode minions benefit monstrously from tag bonuses and have immunity issues, in other words they get relatively little from the +1 minion slot bee has and they get a lot out of whips, and if you're already using whips then you get a lot more out of obsidian armor.

The reason pre 1.4.1 pre hardmode summoner was bad was because the hornet and imp staff were really weak, and still are kind of weak. Transitioning from imp to spider is a much bigger jump than transitioning from pheonix blaster to clockwork rifle, for example.

Since the hornet and imp have much lower attack speed than flinx and vampire frog if they got damage buffs they'd be much more appealing for impure summoners using bee armor.
 
Making the Orichalcum petal smart bounce for crowd control is a great idea,but it does it really need a giant movement speed increase on top of that? I think Cobalt Armor would benefit more from that movement speed, it would give it a niche when it currently has none

Also, that change would make daytime Empress of Light even harder, because not everyone is a pro gamer who can memorize the pattern very well and focus at the required level to cope with anything.

The Terraprisma is a weapon designed to be overpowered, if you are not good enough to beat the Empress at daytime then you don't deserve it.
 
I only have two critiques & they concern the Summoner's Armor sets. 🤔🥤
  • Tiki Armor, I think is fine as is, because it's one of the few times a player is allowed to buy their way to success. When items are locked behind a paywall, they can be very tricky to balance, because some players have difficulty generating money, but are great at Bossing & some are bad at Bossing, but great at financing. Tiki being able to compete with Spooky Armor is a very slippery slope & having a total of five (5) Minions to play around with, by default (not including external buffs), for only 1 Platinum+, is already it's own Meta in Hardmode.
  • Obsidian Armor, unfortunately, has to remain as is I'm afraid. Not sure why this common opinion is stillthe case, but many Players tend to greatly under-sale the power of Bee Armor & it's tier. You can't even look at the Armor Set in a vacuum, because the player is granted access to a plethora of destructive weaponry, once the ability to craft Bee Gear is possible; this is nearly the same case for Obsidian Armor, only reaching it's potential if a Player chooses to main Whips.
    • Bee Armor, is arguably more for a player like myself, who isn't bothered by using a Hybrid Class, as there's really nothing lost by using Bee Grenades, The Bee Bow or Hive Pack (Bee Gear is like hitting the power-spike lotto).
    • When taken into account, Obsidian Armor is only slightly better than Bee Tier Loot (collectively), but only because it's more focused & deliberate in it's design, high-risk-high reward. Plus, the 50% Whip length has to remain, it's just too much fun to remove.
Honestly, I'm quite surprised the team was able to pull any of this off, trying to balance the difference between pre-Hardmode to Hardmode Armor sets + Whips, aside from Spider Gear, must've been an absolute nightmare.
The player can't just buy tiki armor, they also have to kill plantera, considering that spider can be obtained within minutes of prehardmode I expect more after having to defeat at least 4 bosses. It also has to compete with hallowed, forget having to buy armor, you literally have to fight the bosses that drop hallowed bars in order to even access tiki.

Obsidian armor just makes whips too strong, this has nothing to do with bee armor, bee armor's problem relates to the minions surrounding it, I talk more about this in my reply to whoneedsnamestbh
 
The player can't just buy tiki armor, they also have to kill plantera, considering that spider can be obtained within minutes of prehardmode I expect more after having to defeat at least 4 bosses. It also has to compete with hallowed, forget having to buy armor, you literally have to fight the bosses that drop hallowed bars in order to even access tiki.
Do you considered Tiki Armor to be inferior to Hallowed (Summoner)? 🤔🥤 I ask only because access to Minion selection & combinations are also a factor to consider. In my last multiplayer/ co-op run, I actually got away with totally skipping Hallowed everything & went right for DD2 Gear. I bring this up, because access to Sentries is also something to consider. Remember, once Plantera is down, a Summoner "unlocks" Desert Tiger & Hydra Staff.

I'm sure we can all agree that the Hardmode Dungeon is no pushover, but if we're metagaming, there's ways to go for what you want & get out, without having to do it "legit".

Obsidian armor just makes whips too strong, this has nothing to do with bee armor, bee armor's problem relates to the minions surrounding it, I talk more about this in my reply to whoneedsnamestbh
I'm not sure if I'm the only one who noticed, but the updates to giving players alternatives were often divided into "forks in the road". I can't say for sure if Obsidian Armor was balanced around Queen Bee when it was first introduced, but it certainly is now, very similar in manner to what you suggested a while back about Imp Minions being an alt. This is almost the same idea, but a bit more interesting.

The reason Obsidian Armor needs to remain broken, is because it sits in an odd place in the progression spectrum. Let me give you a visual example of what I mean, especially when taking balance in account.

--------- [Bee Armor]

--- [Bee Armor + Bee Weaponry]
<<<<< [Obsidian Armor]
------------ [Spider Armor + Minion + Sentry + Hybrid Weapon]
<<<<< [Hallowed Armor, Summoner], [Obsidian Armor + Firecracker Whip]
---

---------

--- [Spooky Armor]

------------

---

---------

Imagine if the diagram above was a measurement for progression in-game; normally the goal is to allow a Weapon or piece of gear "breathing room", to get some kind of mileage. You want to avoid having a turnover rate that's too high & too fast, because it takes away from the feeling of achievement, or the player bonding with the equipment.

Obsidian Armor needs to do two things, 1.) compete with Bee Tier Equipment & 2.) avoid the quick replacement scale in progression. I personally believe that hallowed is superior to Obsidian Armor & Tiki is superior to Hallowed. If that's the case, then it fits-in well with healthy game progression. If however, Obsidian Armor steps on Hallowed Armors toes, or Hallowed, Tiki, then there's an issue. I don't beleive either do, which is why I don't believe they need to be changed. 🤷‍♂️🥤
 
Do you considered Tiki Armor to be inferior to Hallowed (Summoner)?
Getting a free hit every 30 seconds means that if you're used to nohitting bosses you can just put in a vague amount of effort and become literally immortal, plus hallowed armor has a small bonus of boosting all classes by 7% damage and critical hit chance, meaning that if you use a non-summon weapon alongside your minions that gets boosted too. It's not that tiki armor is underpowered (I would say it's just average), it's that hallowed armor is utterly ridiculous.
 
Getting a free hit every 30 seconds means that if you're used to nohitting bosses you can just put in a vague amount of effort and become literally immortal, plus hallowed armor has a small bonus of boosting all classes by 7% damage and critical hit chance, meaning that if you use a non-summon weapon alongside your minions that gets boosted too. It's not that tiki armor is underpowered (I would say it's just average), it's that hallowed armor is utterly ridiculous.
I don't disagree, but just keep-in-mind that, whenever we're discussing metagaming or hypotheticals, it normally only accounts for about 8-10% of the total player-base. It's not that we're to be ignored (we're taken into account when it matters), but we have to come last when abusable mechanics like these are considered. The amount of players in this form alone that could no-hit a Boss are probably less-than twenty (or thirty?). I'm including myself in that number as well... I don't have the patience. 😅💁‍♂️

My main point to qwerty3.14 though, was that, once you add weaponry into the mix, the gap between certain Armor Sets skyrockets. With Hallowed, simply picking up a decent Repeater or Gun, it leaves Obsidian Armor in the dust. It's just one of those necessary evils we've gotta live with if we want Summoner to have more options... 🤷‍♂️🥤
 
Honestly, if we’re going to nerf Hallowed in this thread, then Tiki might not need much of a buff.

Like you said, its biggest downfall is Hallowed. If we nerf Hallowed to not be literally more defensive than Turtle, that would help close the gap and Tiki might not need to be stronger by as much.

The transition from 3 to 4 minions at this point actually matters more than from 2 to 3, because in prehardmode and early hardmode, all your minions have clashing iframes while at this stage your minions should be somewhere between Blade, Sanguine and Tiger, which don’t have that problem. And the increase in damage of 2% is similarly meaningless to the increase in damage between Bee and Spider of 5%.

If Hallowed is nerfed the right amount, at pre-Plantera you have the choice between offense (spider) and defense (hallowed) with emphasis on hallowed, and post-plantera you have the choice between offense (tiki) and defense with emphasis on tiki.
 
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