Terraria: Otherworld Changing of the Guard: An Update from Otherworld

[FlyKip]

Will TOW also be available for Linux? Please say "yes"

It will. I think.
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That was with the prior development team though, and now we have a new development team. It seems to me that Re-Logic was trying to avoid another Edge of Space happening by changing development teams.

I think if Edge of Space would have been handed to someone more competent, it would have done well. But instead, the people who held the rights to it decided to throw an unfinished game up on Steam just to cash in when they no longer wanted to work on it.

Thankfully, Re-Logic is not the kind of company that does stupid crap like that. They want to release the game right and good, and so this is what we get: a new development team that will hopefully work out better, but at a cost of added delays.

At least we didn't get a buggy, incomplete mess of a game that's barely worth playing, and a bunch of empty promises (like Edge of Space). I just wish EoS's developers would have sold the project to someone else or something, the premise was really cool. It just needed work to make it into a good game.

@rubeszilla : The tower defense aspect isn't what bothers me about 1.3.4 .... it's the mechanics behind it, and the lack of supporting weapons other than tons of summoner minions/turrets, especially pre-hardmode. Terraria (the original one) was NOT built with this in mind, and it shows glaring flaws, right down to the fact the game has this annoying anti-terrain exploit feature in it.

Everywhere else in Terraria, you are free to do whatever you wish with Terrain (which is, you know, THE WHOLE PREMISE OF THE GAME?!) to gain the upper hand over your foes. But NOT with the 1.3.4 content, oh no. The game will tell you to sod off if you don't have an almost perfectly flat area of at least 200 blocks on either side of the crystal. I don't know about you, but the worlds I tend to generate, I have to do an annoying amount of terraforming JUST to get the stupid eternia crystal to even work, unless I do it in the desert.... oh wait..... sandstorms. I get sandstorms like 50% of the time. Not gonna try and do tower defense in the middle of a sandstorm, you know?

And even if I went through all the trouble to flatten a large portion of the world for the crystal's liking, what do I get as a reward? yay, summoner equipment... that I'd never use because I don't play summoner!

At least Terraria: Otherworld, the Tower Defense aspect is baked into the core game, and the game would be DESIGNED around it and it should work much better. I've seen screenshots of the towers being in varied terrain, so it doesn't require huge flat expanses just to work.

Respect the crystal. He has feelings.

 

[Aurora3500]

Will TOW also be available for Linux? Please say "yes"

It will. I think.

Terraria Otherworld has not been confirmed for Linux as of this time.

The following is just my opinion and should not be taken as an official statement. It is possible that it will become available for Linux at one point. Because of how Terraria became available for Mac & Linux later down the road, but there's no way of knowing when it could happen. There's a lot of uncertain variables at this time, and in my opinion, it will be best to wait awhile until Re-Logic and/or Pipeworks is ready to share more about what platforms it will be available on.

 

[DeletedAccount343]

@Cronik post #150, Nicely put.

When I'm talking about communicating I'm not talking solely fancy spoilers. It's just months is a long time with no news and not knowing what to expect. If you look at the Terraria Otherworld Facebook page it kind of tells the story. Quite a few spoilers at the start, new mechanics and interesting game-play. And then few and far in between posts.

I like quality before speed and I will wait for a good game. I see people posting they don't mind waiting a few more years. I don't mind either, but years is a long time. All we know is it's probably not coming out this year. Could possibly not come out next year. It's nice to know because I'm going to treat hype in a game coming out in a year or less much differently than a few years. I can't be hyped and see "exciting news soon" for years or else I'm going to have hype burnout lol.

Maybe I'm not like most people and maybe I'm wrong about how I would react but I like having ball park estimates and ideas of when things will happen. Even if they are wrong, I can sympathize with setbacks and delays. As long as it's somewhat constantly reevaluated and updated and not changed within a month or two of release.

It's probably not being released this year is very vague. It took two years to get this far to get to a fresh start. It could take two more years. It could take more. I don't know what to expect.

 

[Croiss]

This is going to be HL3 all over again, but I do have high hopes that you will not let us down!

 

[Loki]

@Loki will you have a test build for us?

Not sure what you mean? We will not be doing EA or anything like that, if that is what you meant.

Make no mistake: this doesn't feel like forward progress to a community that expected the game to be released over a year ago

Not thinking anything otherwise on our end. Sometimes, you have to back the truck up a bit to get it going down the right path. I wouldn't say "back to square one" is necessarily accurate, but I would expect some things will be revisited, yeah, during that review. Here's hoping that you can get to where we are on that grief spectrum soon - I would say your note about that journey internally vs externally is pretty on point.

This DOES raise the bar, mind you. When there's this much drama surrounding a much-anticipated release, then expectations go up dramatically after massive revamps and delays.

I suppose that is the case - but we would have rather shared what was going on with you guys than not. I would hope that people see that we are doing whatever it takes to get this right (these "dramatic" changes are not cheap in terms of any kind of resource nor are they pleasant) versus either putting out whatever we have even if it falls way short. The 20/20 hindsight here is that we revealed Otherworld too soon. Will quote myself here from the OP:

Clearly, had we known this would be the scenario way back then, we would have held off on announcing the game until a later time - but such is game development.

I heard a rumor it's not coming for PC?Steam. Is this true?

Not in the slightest. LOL! Who came up with that one? Plans are still for PC/Steam, XB1, PS4. Before anyone asks about Switch or mobile, those are absolutely both going to be considered - but we need to get the core game right first.

Understandable. For some people, seeing is believing after all. Hopefully Pipeworks can deliver on Re-Logic's expectations. All eyes are on them now.

Proof will be in the pudding!

Funny, I pretty much said almost these exact words to the guys at PW when this all came together. Opportunity comes with pressure, and this is packed with both. Excellence has a way of rising out of such situations.

Otherworld needs to be different enough from Terraria to pique my interest - and add something more interesting than the already very interesting formula that already exists. Tough tasks!

Precisely. We are confident that the game laid out on the current design document will hit that mark.

the relogic team probably could have already programmed and finished the game themselves instead of relying on other teams to do it

If people wanted no more Terraria updates and to wait even longer for it, sure. I think folks forget that we are a very small team and we are not trying to become a 50-person studio overnight. That leads to "bad things" more often than not.

Trying to go too big too quickly, man. Should have just released it bare bones like original Terraria and added updates. That worked once, why not again?

Define what is required at that bare bones 1.0 in 2017? The genre has evolved. The bar has been raised - by Terraria itself along with other games. We are not trying to stick everything into 1.0 - there will be post launch ideas as well - but we do have a very clear vision to hit for 1.0 to reach the standard that @rubezilla so aptly laid out above.

I think if Edge of Space......

Not to delve into that situation - but I will say that there is ALWAYS more going on behind the scenes than most people will ever see or realize. Even as a close follower of the industry for over 3 decades, a gamer for longer, and so on... I have learned a lot more about "what I didn't know that I didn't know" about how the dev side of things works in the past two years than I could ever have imagined. Still, as someone said above - ultimately, the proof is in the pudding. At the end of the day, results matter most.

The tower defense aspect isn't what bothers me about 1.3.4 .... it's the mechanics behind it

Tower Defense in a sandbox is a massive balance challenge. There are really two core ways to go about it. One is what you see in 1.3.4. The other is really only possible if you design around it foundationally. With T1, we had to roll with the first for obvious reasons. We all knew it wouldn't make 100% of everyone pleased - "You removed my sand from my sandbox", more or less... but as an optional and unique event, we rather like it. It challenges even experienced players to try something new vs the same arena mechanics that they are used to using to solve 90% of the challenges in the game. Anyway, totally get your critique - its one we anticipated some would have. I wouldn't necessarily assume that 1.3.4 is "how TD will work in Otherworld".

Also, keep in mind that the core foundation of Otherworld has to be that it is a Terraria game - and that means players expect a certain amount of freedom to "do their own thing on their own timeframe" - it is safe to assume that we have not forgotten this.

Maybe I'm not like most people and maybe I'm wrong about how I would react but I like having ball park estimates and ideas of when things will happen.

We tried to give "ballparks" on this game at first - and those ballparks turned out to be quite a bit off. So, I am not sure that solves anything either.

It's probably not being released this year is very vague. It took two years to get this far to get to a fresh start. It could take two more years. It could take more. I don't know what to expect.

Nor do we yet - the team has to dive into this headlong and get things fully scoped and planned to even have an INTERNAL roadmap/timeline (and this has already started)....and then game dev is a notoriously variable beast in regards to how things fit to that.

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Hopefully I got to most of the questions/discussions - sorry if I missed yours.

 

[TheRedReign]

Not gonna lie, the redesign of the Otherworld logo caught me off guard. I'm hyped to see what it looks like in the future! Additionally, I truly admire Re-Logic's commitment and dedication to this game. Despite all of the silence and delays, I'm grateful that they're taking their time with this game to make it as enjoyable as possible, because NO ONE is gonna be happy with a rushed, incomplete game. That's just common sense. Keep doing what you're doing, Re-Logic (and PipeWork Studios ). I'm so looking forward to this game!!!

 

[Xylia]

Tower Defense in a sandbox is a massive balance challenge. There are really two core ways to go about it. One is what you see in 1.3.4. The other is really only possible if you design around it foundationally. With T1, we had to roll with the first for obvious reasons. We all knew it wouldn't make 100% of everyone pleased - "You removed my sand from my sandbox", more or less... but as an optional and unique event, we rather like it. It challenges even experienced players to try something new vs the same arena mechanics that they are used to using to solve 90% of the challenges in the game. Anyway, totally get your critique - its one we anticipated some would have. I wouldn't necessarily assume that 1.3.4 is "how TD will work in Otherworld".

I did say that "TD in T:OW wouldn't bother me because the game would be designed with it in mind", lol.

So yes, I do realize that TD in Otherworld should work a lot better, because the game will be balanced around it, instead of it being balanced around the game like we have in original Terraria.

I 'get' why 1.3.4 was done the way it was, it's still.... awkward to actually set it up and get it working.

One thing that would help, is some clarification on what exactly the crystal wants from its surroundings. I will admit I've not checked the wiki recently, so maybe the exact mechanics are described there... I've tried some what I thought were very reasonable flat surfaces only to be told "nope! can't do" and I'm like "uh, why? There's nothing here that should be stopping it?"

Also, keep in mind that the core foundation of Otherworld has to be that it is a Terraria game - and that means players expect a certain amount of freedom to "do their own thing on their own timeframe" - it is safe to assume that we have not forgotten this.

*nods* I know that... my main point was that 1.3.4 was awkward and that T:OW will be better because the TD aspect will be rolled into the game's core. Assuming T:OW is still TD, lol.

 

[Loki]

I did say that "TD in T:OW wouldn't bother me because the game would be designed with it in mind", lol.

*nods* I know that... my main point was that 1.3.4 was awkward and that T:OW will be better because the TD aspect will be rolled into the game's core. Assuming T:OW is still TD, lol.

Yeah, did not miss that you stated those things - was more restating and expanding on them, under the notion that I was speaking to more than just the quoted folks.

TD is a core element of TOW, but TOW should not be a "Tower Defense game that also has a sandbox"....if that makes sense?

You would have to ask Yorai about the specifics on the crystal placement.

 

[Xylia]

Yeah, did not miss that you stated those things - was more restating and expanding on them, under the notion that I was speaking to more than just the quoted folks.

Ahh, okay. hehe. Understandable.

TD is a core element of TOW, but TOW should not be a "Tower Defense game that also has a sandbox"....if that makes sense?

In a way, I can kinda see what's meant. I was just curious if TD was still the aim/goal of Otherworld, because well, it was said that a lot of things about Otherworld could be changing, and I recall several people asking "Is it still gonna be TD?" and I don't recall seeing the answer. But then it's 10 pages already and I could have missed it.

You would have to ask Yorai about the specifics on the crystal placement.

Well I think before I go sending PMs or what not, I'll check the wiki sometime or something... not a huge deal. I was just saying it would help if someone (@Yoraiz0r or anybody who knows) would lay down exactly or at least a good idea of what the rules actually are about the crystal placement.

That way, if the game tells me "no", it'd be nice to know why/what I would have to change.

 

[SuperJay]

@Loki - sup my bae?

I haven't been following along with TOW but it sounds like you folks are making the right calls. Take your time, do what you need to do to be proud of what you release. At the end of the day, a great game will erase almost all the pre-release muttering about delays and communiation.

And kudos to you and the rest of the community team for being open, forthcoming, and honest about the situation. I don't envy your job, friend. Every time I stop by here I'm a bit surprised at how the Terraria community seems to expect that Rome be built in a day, but I guess that's part and parcel with a younger fanbase. Software development is hard, people! Good games don't get made in a year, or even two. Three to five years is a pretty reasonable timeline for a small studio (even with outside help) making a fairly deep, complicated game.

For us vintage-model gamers, it can be hard to understand this mindset of fans wanting every studio to keep them informed about everything going on internally on a development project. It wasn't like that when we were kids or even young adults; that's a fairly recent development in the last 5-10 years especially. It seems like many players make themselves unhappy by expecting so much communication and hand-holding and then being disappointed when that's just not practical or even useful for many companies, especially smaller studios. I get that the industry has changed and that many peeps expect that, but I just don't share the expectation. Firaxis can take three months to work on Civ VI patches without Sid Meier having to personally inform me of their progress on a weekly basis. I'll still play the game and appreciate the patches, and I don't sit here assuming that everyone's up and vanished if I don't hear anything for a few weeks or even a few months. #JustOldGamerThings

Anyway, keep up the great work and take care of yourselves; all the rest will fall into place from there. Cheers!

 

[DeletedAccount343]

We tried to give "ballparks" on this game at first - and those ballparks turned out to be quite a bit off

And that's fine, with me at least. I don't expect everything to work out perfectly and can sympathies with that. But when estimates don't work out, change it instead of scrapping it with no expectations. Just put a big statement saying this will most definitely change.

I guess my problem is I just need to take a big step back and not actively look for exciting news every so often and just be pleasantly surprised when it actually shows up on steam rather than ponder what the next update in months will say.

 

[Loki]

Anyway, keep up the great work and take care of yourselves; all the rest will fall into place from there. Cheers!

Always good when you stop by - I hope all is well.

You know I grew up in that same era - heck, half the time you didn't even know what was coming until WAY closer to launch.

"Is it still gonna be TD?"

It will have TD for sure....."be" implies that is all there is. For certain, TD will be a key aspect of progression...but at the foundation of the house, this must be a Terraria game... not TD with Terraria elements.

 

[Leinfors]

But when estimates don't work out, change it instead of scrapping it with no expectations. Just put a big statement saying this will most definitely change.

Experience has shown that this most definitely doesn't work. The original estimate was pretty clearly indicated to be nothing more than a goal, yet it was taken as hard date by many. No matter how broad your estimates are, no matter how many disclaimers you put indicating its just an estimate or goal, people take it as "the release date", and are disappointed when it falls short. The only solutions are to bind yourself to a release date for better or worse (not a good option), or to avoid long term dates entirely. Otherwise it just risks too much fan dismay.

 

[StarMix]

For me, this is not bad news, there was hope for further development of the Terraria and on the patch 1.4, and I also hope in this patch to finally see a big awesome pet raven(not fighting) !!! Which would follow you to different dark and not very corners of your wonderful game, thank you guys for Terraria and do not forget about it

 

[Feutor]

Well I can't wait... Actually I guess I can since I have to... for another few years... I am just really sad because school is taking more and more time and I am afraid I won't be able to concentrate 100% on this awesome game you are developing when it comes out. But yeah, can't wait. I mean I can.
[doublepost=1491411399,1491410847][/doublepost]Also, please don't even bother replying to people that speak for "The Terraria community" We all know that 50% of these people are kids that talk about things they don't even fully understand and people that feel like they have to compare Yrimir to HERO under every single video because both make Terraria videos. My point is, that Terraria community you guys got going is made out of all kinds of age groups, yes most are kids but not all of them so don't listen to everything you read, don't let some of the bull I read on here demotivate you guys, I already know ToW is gonna be great simply based on that one ocean screenshot. Take as much time as you need to, most of us Terraria veterans that have been playing and following Terraria for years, have patience as well as faith in the developers, no worries

 

[hoaxdream]

really good news!

for the meantime i bought oxygen not included while waiting lol

 

[ValmontDraconus]

Hopefully everything comes out alright in the end. I love Terraria and have strong hopes that Otherworld will live up to potential.

I like some of the things I saw of it thus far, but was never really sold on the character designs and animations. They just didn't look as good to me.

 

[ZeroJinKui]

One thing I have to ask though, is what's up with all the company swapping? We were dealing with Engine Software for awhile... then 505 Games.... and now its Pipeworks Studios. I hope at some point we'll actually settle on a company at some point? Bringing a company in to work on something and then giving them the boot and bringing in another company.... that's got to be a LOT of wasted time, and money. Hopefully Pipeworks Studios ends up being better. I am not really familiar with them so I can't say much, I'm just hoping they'll deliver. At least they seem to be more vocal and visible to the public, so that's a plus at least.

you realize 505 is the PUBLISHER, right?

it's because of them that we even have terraria on consoles.

engine was the developer, now pipeworks has taken up the mantle... they've only switched developers once.

also, you just sound immensely jaded regarding terraria... maybe you just need to move on?

just saying, you don't seem to have many positive things to say about it, anymore... probably a sign that you are burned out on the game and should take a long break from it, at the very least.

you even ranted about an update that tons of people enjoy, but you don't... i don't really see the point in ranting about something like that, honestly... i mean, it took up a large chunk of your post, even.

anyway, sticking to the point of this topic, i didn't mind the silence, business can be messy at times, i imagine, so it's understandable that no one wanted to say anything until everything was firmly in place.

it can really blow up in everyone's faces if developers speak too freely, after all, since things can change when you least expect them to, or ambition gets the best of people and no one can live up to it.

anyway, while things didn't work out, i still appreciate the work engine put into everything.

i trust re-logic and pipeworks to see things through to the end, and get things done right, and i look forward to when terraria 1.3 and otherworld is finally finished.

 

[Xylia]

you realize 505 is the PUBLISHER, right?

it's because of them that we even have terraria on consoles.

engine was the developer, now pipeworks has taken up the mantle... they've only switched developers once.

This was already addressed....

also, you just sound immensely jaded regarding terraria... maybe you just need to move on?

just saying, you don't seem to have many positive things to say about it, anymore... probably a sign that you are burned out on the game and should take a long break from it, at the very least.

I have plenty of positive things to say about Terraria. Though there is a point to be made that one can only do the same kind of stuff over and over again, and needs new content now and then (other than Dark Souls kinda stuff, that is).

you even ranted about an update that tons of people enjoy, but you don't... i don't really see the point in ranting about something like that, honestly... i mean, it took up a large chunk of your post, even.

So, just because I didn't enjoy it as much as others who loved it, that means my opinion is wrong, or bad?

I was simply explaining why I was so hopeful that 1.3.5 has something in it that I would really enjoy, and explaining why 1.3.4 didn't fit that criteria much.

I think overall you're reading too deep into what I said. I was merely trying to say that yeah I have hope for Terraria and T:OW but the long delays are going to be rough because I miss the days when there was new content to be had, when I wasn't getting bored of the game, lol.

Doesn't help that the Dark Souls mods are such a tease. awesome looking content that's just too difficult to really be fun.

EDIT: And also, this isn't Terraria's or Re-Logic's fault, but there really aren't very many games that I'm actually interested in lately. The video game market seems rather dry this past year or two... not much coming out that I like. Terraria's one of the few, and sadly it's difficult for me to even do a playthrough because I've seen the stuff a million times already it feels like.

 

[Techdude594]

@Xylia, while things are heavily in flux right now, I think its pretty clear from the spoilers shown already that the game does not have that sort of 1 to 1 conversion potential in terms of taking textures and just copy+pasting them into the other game. Things have different shapes, the games have their own enemies and items, and the animation mechanics are entirely distinct from Terraria's.

TOW isn't just a retexture of Terraria that could be "swapped back" in terms of art. They are both entirely distinct games with their own art and animation styles which aren't interchangeable. Would it be plausible to exchange the art of some items for others? Probably. But there is nothing even set in stone that items will be of the same dimensions; perhaps a piece of furniture that is 1x3 blocks in Terraria could be 2x4 in TOW, which doesn't allow for a simple "the assets are right there" swap out. What about unique enemies and armors, which only exist in one or the other? Perhaps its just lingering misinterpretation of TOW as a reskinned Terraria, but it wouldn't be as simple as a swap out.

This comment just gets me excited even more! We've already seen new weapons and armors spoiled, can't wait to see what new content you guys make, new mechanics, bosses, biomes, etc, all while staying faithful to the Terraria style we have grown to love!