tModLoader Experience and Classes

Discussion in 'Released' started by Saerus, Dec 24, 2016.

?

Are the new class advancement requirements reasonable?

Poll closed Jan 18, 2017.
  1. Yes! Major changes are NOT needed.

    19 vote(s)
    76.0%
  2. The Monster/Boss Orb requirements are reasonable, but not the other requirements.

    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  3. The other requirements are reasonable, but not the Monster/Boss Orb requirements.

    5 vote(s)
    20.0%
  4. No! Major changes are needed.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Iara

    Iara Terrarian


    I think the melee speed needs some balancing. Instead of raw numbers, it should just be a small percentage boost. (0.1% per level) Or else you get such a ridiculous amount.
    Yoyos only bug out on excessive melee speeds. And I mean EXCESSIVE. The likes that make beam-swords the most powerful items in the game. I think pegduin made a video about this.


    I really need to get down and play this mod to give more suggestions.
     
  2. ardittristan

    ardittristan Steampunker

    I think this is a bug but after the last update when i died i deleveled
     
  3. Saerus

    Saerus Skeletron Prime

    Thanks for all the feedback!

    I'm just about to step out the door so I can't say much right now, but I have added all of your requests to the To Do list.

    Happy Holidays!
     
  4. Iara

    Iara Terrarian


    See you!

    You never told me if you wanted me to test your mod throughly, so I will take that as a no, lol.
     
  5. Saerus

    Saerus Skeletron Prime

    I really appreciate the offer :) , but I think that any thorough testing is best left until after the first pass of balancing.

    The current state of the mod is quite clearly unbalanced. ;)
     
  6. ardittristan

    ardittristan Steampunker

    I think i found out what was wrong, the level counter shows the level of the player (if in multiplayer) with the most xp, so i had less than 100 xp but my friend had more so it showed that i had more than 100 xp while i did not but my friend did.
     
  7. Coleby

    Coleby Terrarian

    Can you level up past level 146? My XP froze in 57398/141500.
    My guess is that the mod ignores stacks with size of 9999999, causing levelups past lv. 145 impossible.[​IMG]
     
  8. Heya Saerus, I don't know if you know this, but it is possible to equip more than one token at the moment, making it quite easy for people to just have all their slots filled with class tokens and thus making them gods. Think it would be possible to make them like wings where you can only have one equipped?
     
  9. Kagutsuchi

    Kagutsuchi Terrarian

    I know your feeling. I tried to play with both, I can only get 9999 Exp, i can't advance further than level 8 and that kinda sucks.
     
  10. セフィロス

    セフィロス Skeletron Prime

    U Should check out the last posts done by Hiccup for Prefixes, he said he dont want to maintence multiple versions of the mod when the mod is not finished. And also he said what u need to delete in his mod to take off the rare enemys stuff if its bother someone.

    @Saerus
    As much as i like the idea and waited for a tmloader mod that adds a actual level system together with a Good RPG class mod. I must really dislike the 1 acc slot taken for the class. In terms of Unbalance and other stuff i cant say much didnt played it yet, the free inventory slots u need for the experience bothers me too, since i already hate the small space for the inventory compare to the amount of items u can get from the exploring specialy in earlygame.

    I downloaded the mod and i will test it out a bit when i have some freetime for it but still some points on this mod here scares me still away and thats why i still pref RPG Class Mod over this.

    Anyway Have Fun and Goodluck on the mod will have a eye on it in future.
     
  11. Saerus

    Saerus Skeletron Prime

    Multiple different classes can be equipped, but you actually lose all bonuses if you do this.
    non_stacking.png
     
  12. Saerus

    Saerus Skeletron Prime

    Thanks for pointing this out!

    I fixed this issue before, but I must have broken it again somehow. Maybe with the 0.9.1 update. I'll get this sorted out before too long. Thanks!
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 27, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 27, 2016 ---
    That is a lot of exp. Did you create it with HERO/Cheat Sheet? Or is the exp and/or level formula too generous?

    I plan to move away from the "exp is an item" implementation so it will be possible to earn more experience soon(ish). I will also be increasing the experience requirements so don't be surprised when your level drops.

    My aim is to create a system with no realistically obtainable cap. It will be "possible" to level beyond this point.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 27, 2016 ---
    AND
    I will be moving away from the "exp is an item" implementation, so you will be able to use MaxStacks.
     
  13. Iara

    Iara Terrarian

    Now that you are moving out of the whole "item" route... How about instead turning classes into something else?

    The easiest thing I can think of is a buff item, that will give you buff accordingly. These buffs linger until the player dies (Kinda like pets or light pets do)

    Do you get my drift? I assure you most people would rather rebuff themselves with each level up, rather than use up an accesory slot. Also, it would feel more "natural".
     
  14. Saerus

    Saerus Skeletron Prime

    That's the idea, more-or-less. I won't be implementing them as as actual buffs, but the result will be similar.
     
  15. Iara

    Iara Terrarian

    That would be EVEN BETTER actually. I suggested them as actual buffs because that is easier to code. Way easier.


    You could also make EXP to be an item that is automatically used, like hearts or mana stars that enemy drops.
     
  16. Saerus

    Saerus Skeletron Prime

    I've already converted exp to a character-level int. It is stored in the character file during save, and read during load time. There will be no tangible exp item, but the UI will show current experience as it does now. I already fixed the multiplayer UI bug.

    EDIT: These changes are not live yet.
     
  17. NeoPhantom

    NeoPhantom Skeletron Prime

    Heya, love to see another class mod in the making there!

    I see that many mention the classes are a bit imbalanced though. So maybe I can give some input as well?

    For example, I find the branches of the different classes to be on the low side. How about adding another rank afterwards? This can help identify the things that you can give the classes as well as what to limit them with as well!

    >Squire (melee)
    ->Warrior (offensive)
    -[>Ronin (attack speed)
    -[>Berserker (pure damage)
    ->Guard/Tank (defensive)
    -[>Knight (armored/defense)
    -[>Paladin (regeneration)
    ->Brawler (knockback)
    -[>Gladiator (mixed)
    -[>Collosus/Champion (extreme knockback / ignore knockback inmunity?)

    This first group is simple. Will the player advace for increased damage and lowered defenses, increased defenses with reduced damage, or will he wish to push enemies away without risking either stat dropping?

    Following the increase in damage and reduction of defense, the player once again must make a choice. Will the player want to attack a huge number of times in a very short period in exchange for significantly lowered defenses OR will he prefer to cut down his attack speed in exchange to make each of his attacks devastatingly powerful!

    For the defensive route, the player can choose between donning the heaviest of armors to gain massive defenses while lowering their movement speed and jump height OR to make a pact with the gods to gain their protection in the form of increased life regen though having mana drained while in effect.

    Finally, the players who chose the Brawler can make the choice to continue to push enemies far, FAR away in order to not deal with them and even limiting enemy spawns slightly OR to obtain the benefits of the Warrior and Guard as a Gladiator thus gaining both offense and defense without losing out in either, though lacking the specialization of their advancements.

    >Hunter (ranged)
    ->Archer (arrows)
    -[>Ballista (arrows drop down faster but deal excessive damage)
    -[>Hawkeye (arrows travel farther and faster before affected by gravity)
    ->Gunslinger (bullets)
    -[>Artillery (shooting speed)
    -[>Sniper (damage/slow)
    ->Ranger (mixed)
    -[>Striker (criticals)
    -[>Cannoneer (explosives)

    >Mage (magic)
    ->Wizard (damage +manacost)
    -[>Mystic (overdamage +manacost)
    -[>Bloodmage (can use health when out of mana instead)
    ->Sorcerer (mana regen)
    -[>Sage (defensive)
    -[>Shaman (greatly reduced manacost)
    ->Syphon (Attack speed)
    -[>??
    -[>??

    ->Cleric
    -[>Saint
    ->Hexer (debuff)
    -[>Cultist (debuff)


    These are some examples, though Ill write the rest later on the day after giving mod a proper lookthrough!
     
  18. updatedude

    updatedude Terrarian

    Hi, great mod. I like your apparent point of view of not forcing people to play in a certain style.

    I'm just here to give you my experience as well as an alternate view to some of the other posters.

    Honestly, I don't see why any class/mod should penalize the player in any way, because these kinds of mods are gonna make the player OP regardless. It's up to the player not to abuse it. So I don't understand why anybody wants the modder to nerf/penalize them. Classes Based RPG is different because it encourages particular play styles and it doesn't allow the player to get truly OP.

    Your mod also encourages particular play styles but allows people to get OP through "cheating" or plain old fashion grinding. Both are legit styles. I think yours is "better" in some ways because of the customization it affords. Just because I can be OP, doesn't mean I HAVE to. But boy, is it FUN to go all Superman sometimes.

    For instance, I'm playing 2 characters using your mod. One, a legit Ninja (Throwing) and one, a Cheat Sheeted Fortress (Damage Reduction/Defense/Exploding). The former makes the ninja more viable while the latter is just plain OP fun time/testing purposes.

    That said, sometimes I feel like playing the Fortress legitimately and your mod's great for that because all I have to do is swap the location of his EXP Orb with a lesser, more legit one.

    Your mod actually made me grind the Slime King for XP, which is great! On Expert Mode, it nets 260~290 exp per kill and a TON of gold. Which makes getting new crowns easier depending on the mods being used. So hitting level 20+ is actually quite viable.

    I'm also fine with EXP and Class taking up a slot because of how much advantage we're getting in return. But having the slot back would be nice as well.

    That said, while playing the Ninja class, I found that it was getting impossible to level up because I was in a rather challenging world and every time I died, I lost all my EXP.

    So what I found was that whenever I returned to the surface, I could just "save my progress" by storing my EXP in a chest. This allowed me to squirrel away EXP for leveling up. And that really gives it that old school vibe that I dig.

    tl;dr, It is totally FINE to be unbalanced because your mod lets the player adjust how much benefit they get.

    I do have one request though. Is it possible to cap the jump height? I legit grinded my Ninja to level 30 and his jump is starting to get out of hand. I have another cheaty character with 999999 EXP and he jumps way too high.

    Random idea/suggestion/request, how about a new Damage Reduction Class, perhaps 0.3% Damage Reduction per level or an Armor Penetration Class?

    Again, thanks for the fantastic mod.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
  19. updatedude

    updatedude Terrarian

    Hmm... well, just started playing with the newer version... anybody have a link to the older more broken version? v0.1.7?

    Edit: Not that it's a bad update mind you. It seems more balanced. I just prefer the older version for the reasons I outlined in the previous post.
     
  20. Saerus

    Saerus Skeletron Prime

    Thanks for the feedback!

    I really do hope that people will be able to enjoy this mod in a way that fits their own style. I want some semblance of balance for the more hardcore folks, but I want to leave things open to silly fun for those who want to go that route.

    I have added a new command "/exprate #" that allows people to change the rate at which experience is gained. This setting is stored with each character and works in both singleplayer and multiplayer. You set it to 10% for a challenge or 1000% (or more) to crank out levels - default is 100%.

    I noticed issues with jump speed as well. I'll be putting in a few limits during the balance pass to keep things from breaking.

    Re: damage reduction/armor pen.
    That would be pretty easy to add. I'll keep it in mind when I get to the balance pass. Feel free to remind me if I forget :p
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 27, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 27, 2016 ---
    I like the idea of further specializing the classes, but we're not quite at that point yet. Lets first get everything working and see how the current classes fair.
     
    updatedude likes this.