Weapons & Equip Fix melee speed scaling with spears, buff spears & add more spears

[Lancer of hatred]

I think that the game would benefit from having more spears and better spears. I believe that melee players would like if they had more options for fighting bosses than what they already have.

One of the ways you can do that is by reworking how melee speed affects spears. Currently, spears don't have their DPS increase significantly after they get past a certain amount of melee speed due to them getting invincibility frame issues.
Higher melee speed increases the DPS of swords, but it doesn't increase the DPS of spears in the same way. Relogic should make spears get affected by melee speed boosts, just like how swords get affected by them.
This will be useful because it will make melee speed builds affect the DPS of more weapons than just swords.
Relogic should also do something to fix the glitch that causes too much melee speed to make spears fly out of the hands of the user.

In pre-hardmode, if you play on Corruption worlds, you don't have access to a good spear like the Rotted fork. Your only option is using other weapons or using the Rotted fork. So I suggest adding a pre-boss spear that corruption players can use. Maybe a corruption themed spear? A jungle themed spear? A snow biome themed spear?

You use the Rotted fork and Storm spear all the way until Skeletron, so I also suggest adding a pre-Skeletron spear that's post-Brain of Cthulhu/Eater of worlds. A hellstone spear? A meteorite spear? Queen bee drop spear? Deerclops drop spear?

The Dark lance is fine as it is currently, but it can sometimes outperform the Adamantite glaive and the Titanium trident due to the Dark lance having longer range. So I believe that the Adamantite Glaive and TItanium Trident should have their reach increased by 1 block or 2 blocks or maybe even more, to make them viable against pre-Plantera bosses. I mean, there are no other spears you could use efficiently at that point in the game. The obsidian swordfish has so little range that it's unusable on most bosses of its tier, so maybe add another pre-Plantera spear that would have enough range to make fighting the mechanical bosses on Master mode more bearable, that segment of the game has a lot of methods to craft weapons with, so I doubt y'all would have issues coming up with an idea for what another pre-Mechanical bosses spear would look like.

The Gungnir and Mushroom spear are fine the way they are, though the Ghastly glaive deserves a buff. It is a spear you obtain after beating one mechanical boss but despite being harder to obtain than the Gungnir and Mushroom spear, it performs worse in every aspect that matters. It should have better range or better damage to compensate for its low range.

After beating the mechanical bosses, you only get the Chlorophyte partisan which is decent and the North Pole which is very hard to get. This segment in the game lacks spears. Add more pre-Golem and post-Golem spears to spice up playthroughs.

TL;DR
Make melee speed increase the DPS of spear correctly.
Fix I-frame issues with spears.
Fix visuals when spears have too much melee speed.

Add more spears, preferably at the pre-boss, post-evil bosses, pre-mech bosses, pre-Golem and post-Golem stages of the game

Buff the range of Adamantite glaive & Titanium trident.
Buff the damage or range of the Ghastly glaive to make it worth getting.

 

[BladeStaff]

Make a TL;DR for folk like me who are To Lazy and didn't read.

Also I wont border a buff to spear size(as most of them don't shoot projectiles)

 

[Lancer of hatred]

Make a TL;DR for folk like me who are To Lazy and didn't read.

Also I wont border a buff to spear size(as most of them don't shoot projectiles)

I added a TL;DR, though it would be better if you just read the whole thing.

 

[Salty_]

I added a TL;DR, though it would be better if you just read the whole thing.

"If I had more time I would've written a shorter letter"
Your points are as follows:

1.
- Currently spears can lose damage from having a higher melee speed because the spear may finish its attack animation before the game can check for the second hit. This is especially pronounced with fast spears like Gungnir, where having too much melee speed means you only hit once per thrust instead of twice, lowering its DPS a good chunk.
- So, melee speed should also affect the hit rate of a spear while its out, and not just how fast the attack completes, that way a spear will always hit the same amount of times per thrust irrespective of melee speed.

2.
- Buff spears and add more.


Now to address your points:
Point 1 is entirely reasonable and should be implemented. Having a higher melee speed should not reduce your damage output.

Point 2 is a nice idea. But on your "rotted fork only good spear early game" point, did you forget that the storm spear and swordfish exist?

 

[Lancer of hatred]

"If I had more time I would've written a shorter letter"
Your points are as follows:

1.
- Currently spears can lose damage from having a higher melee speed because the spear may finish its attack animation before the game can check for the second hit. This is especially pronounced with fast spears like Gungnir, where having too much melee speed means you only hit once per thrust instead of twice, lowering its DPS a good chunk.
- So, melee speed should also affect the hit rate of a spear while its out, and not just how fast the attack completes, that way a spear will always hit the same amount of times per thrust irrespective of melee speed.

2.
- Buff spears and add more.


Now to address your points:
Point 1 is entirely reasonable and should be implemented. Having a higher melee speed should not reduce your damage output.

Point 2 is a nice idea. But on your "rotted fork only good spear early game" point, did you forget that the storm spear and swordfish exist?

The Storm spear is really good, but there should be another spear that Corruption players could obtain without world-hopping. The Storm spear is also really hard to get if you don't have a Rotted fork or something similar.
The Swordfish isn't good. It has too little range to make it worth it, especially in Master mode. There should be a spear at least as good as the Rotted fork (Which is easy to get) in terms of range.

 

[Solarpower]

I believe that melee players would like if they had more options for fighting bosses than what they already have.

Wait a minute. Even MORE options than we've got now ?
Melee has like more options than range+mage+summoner altogether ! Why do you ask for more ?

 

[TechionPrime41 🌳]

Actually, maybe make spears throwable(and magical).... Provides mages with more options.

 

[Lancer of hatred]

Wait a minute. Even MORE options than we've got now ?
Melee has like more options than range+mage+summoner altogether ! Why do you ask for more ?

That's an exaggeration, but melee getting more weapon options doesn't mean other classes will get less weapon options. If you want more weapons for other classes, make a suggestion and hope you're listened to. I am not opposed to other classes getting more weapons, but I want melee to get more weapons too.
Either way, I find personally find melee subclasses to be more well-defined than the other classes. Their mechanics are more distinct from each other than how, let's say, how wands and spellbooks are different from each other. So I think melee subclasses should be developed more to have more options and be more viable throughout the game. Same with other subclasses, but I prefer melee classes, so that's why I am making an "Improve the spear subclass" post rather than an "Improve every subclass" post.
As you can see, this post is quite detailed and people are already hesitant to read it due to its length, so going one by one for every other subclass in the game and saying all their faults, progression gaps and how they could be improved would make it even longer. Would you have preferred if I made a post ten times the length of this one explaining how Relogic could expand every other subclass?

Actually, maybe make spears throwable(and magical).... Provides mages with more options.

I mean, if you want a throwable melee weapon, use a boomerang, flail or projectile sword. I am not opposed to making spears throwable, but I don't think it's necessary to make the subclass better. Just buffs to DPS and range, and more spears would suffice.
I am not opposed to the mage class getting more weapon options, but I don't think you should remove a subclass from melee just to make them more versatile. If you want, you can make a post detailing how the mage class could gain more options and asking the devs to add more magic weapons.
Either way, me personally, throwable spears fit more with the melee or ranger class than the mage class.

 

[TechionPrime41 🌳]

I mean, if you want a throwable melee weapon, use a boomerang, flail or projectile sword. I am not opposed to making spears throwable, but I don't think it's necessary to make the subclass better. Just buffs to DPS and range, and more spears would suffice.
I am not opposed to the mage class getting more weapon options, but I don't think you should remove a subclass from melee just to make them more versatile. If you want, you can make a post detailing how the mage class could gain more options and asking the devs to add more magic weapons.
Either way, me personally, throwable spears fit more with the melee or ranger class than the mage class.

Fair enough.

 

[Meowlegend]

I mean, if you want a throwable melee weapon, use boomerang, flail or projectile sword. I am not opposed to making spears throwable, but I don't think it's necessary to make the subclass better. st buffs to DPS and range, and more spears would suffice.

Either way, me personally, throwable spears fit more with the melee or ranger class than the mage class.

Terraria does not have deeply explained classes and just have damage types, so anything can be Melee/Ranged/Magic/Summon weapon, really. But to me, spears are always melee, and thrown spears can exist, Daybreak is my second favorite melee weapon.

That's an exaggeration, but melee getting more weapon options doesn't mean other classes will get less weapon options. If you want more weapons for other classes, make a suggestion and hope you're listened to. I am not opposed to other classes getting more weapons, but I want melee to get more weapons too.
Either way, I find personally find melee subclasses to be more well-defined than the other classes. Their mechanics are more distinct from each other than how, let's say, how wands and spellbooks are different from each other. So I think melee subclasses should be developed more to have more options and be more viable throughout the game. Same with other subclasses, but I prefer melee classes, so that's why I am making an "Improve the spear subclass" post rather than an "Improve every subclass" post.
As you can see, this post is quite detailed and people are already hesitant to read it due to its length, so going one by one for every other subclass in the game and saying all their faults, progression gaps and how they could be improved would make it even longer. Would you have preferred if I made a post ten times the length of this one explaining how Relogic could expand every other subclass?

I think both Melee and Ranger have so many options throughout the game by also having the most weapons, and dont need anything more. We already got so many reworks and weapons for two classes, and Ranger is the best class even (atleast for me). I do think however, that melee subclasses should be improved, because as of currently almost no one uses spears and yoyos... Swords are not that good either, most of the swords you will use in a melee run are Zenith's components (makes sense since Zenith is a sword respresenting your journey). Boomerangs are vital, and I am a big fan of them, I would like to see more boomerangs throughout the game. There is also the "other" category, there are also really good weapons from there. Shadowflame knife is a good one, helps in early hardmode and is really fun (spammable and bouncy). Jousting lances are not useful in a regular run, but are funny. Solar Eruption and Daybreak are vital at this point.
I kinda like your suggestion by the way, spears really do need improvement.

 

[Lancer of hatred]

Terraria does not have deeply explained classes and just have damage types, so anything can be Melee/Ranged/Magic/Summon weapon, really. But to me, spears are always melee, and thrown spears can exist, Daybreak is my second favorite melee weapon.

Fair enough, not saying that they can't exist, but they can arguably fit the ranger class too. And why make throwable spears when you can make boomerangs, flails or projectile swords? Not opposed to it, though.

I think both Melee and Ranger have so many options throughout the game by also having the most weapons, and dont need anything more. We already got so many reworks and weapons for two classes, and Ranger is the best class even (atleast for me). I do think however, that melee subclasses should be improved, because as of currently almost no one uses spears and yoyos... Swords are not that good either, most of the swords you will use in a melee run are Zenith's components (makes sense since Zenith is a sword respresenting your journey). Boomerangs are vital, and I am a big fan of them, I would like to see more boomerangs throughout the game. There is also the "other" category, there are also really good weapons from there. Shadowflame knife is a good one, helps in early hardmode and is really fun (spammable and bouncy). Jousting lances are not useful in a regular run, but are funny. Solar Eruption and Daybreak are vital at this point.
I kinda like your suggestion by the way, spears really do need improvement.

I agree with everything, but to be fair, boomerangs aren't exactly vital. I go through entire playthroughs without using them. You can reasonably play melee Terraria just by learning how to fight up close and at medium ranges.
The Solar Eruption and Daybreak have kinda fallen off the meta. I mean, you only really use them for Moon Lord, and they're good, but you can do better with a Terra Blade using a melee speed set up and a Flying dragon with a normal melee DPS set up.
Though I guess they're good if the Terra blade bores you, and you don't want to do the Old one's army.

But yeah, yoyos also deserve a rework since they're all the same minus a few differences. But I could save that up for another game suggestion.

 

[Modding Salmon]

Wait a minute. Even MORE options than we've got now ?
Melee has like more options than range+mage+summoner altogether ! Why do you ask for more ?

Dude melee has a lot of subclasses it would be fun to expand them also to add on some spears could be added to mage and ranged + some boomerangs could be moved to ranger and keep some for melee or boomerangs could be completely range

Fair enough, not saying that they can't exist, but they can arguably fit the ranger class too. And why make throwable spears when you can make boomerangs, flails or projectile swords? Not opposed to it, though.

I agree with everything, but to be fair, boomerangs aren't exactly vital. I go through entire playthroughs without using them. You can reasonably play melee Terraria just by learning how to fight up close and at medium ranges.
The Solar Eruption and Daybreak have kinda fallen off the meta. I mean, you only really use them for Moon Lord, and they're good, but you can do better with a Terra Blade using a melee speed set up and a Flying dragon with a normal melee DPS set up.
Though I guess they're good if the Terra blade bores you, and you don't want to do the Old one's army.

But yeah, yoyos also deserve a rework since they're all the same minus a few differences. But I could save that up for another game suggestion.

Boomerangs would be nice for a range subclass i remember making a slingshot subclass a while ago for ranger but yo-yos deserve a rework they are fun ngl especially with the new magic yoyo bag coming in 1.4:5

Actually, maybe make spears throwable(and magical).... Provides mages with more options.

Honestly why not just make some spears for range melee and mage give all 3 classes a bunch of spear weapons to play around with melee gets the regular expanded spears with some thrown spears
Range gets throwing spears
And mage also gets throwing spears and some other magic spear's

 

[Lancer of hatred]

Dude melee has a lot of subclasses it would be fun to expand them also to add on some spears could be added to mage and ranged + some boomerangs could be moved to ranger and keep some for melee or boomerangs could be completely range



Boomerangs would be nice for a range subclass i remember making a slingshot subclass a while ago for ranger but yo-yos deserve a rework they are fun ngl especially with the new magic yoyo bag coming in 1.4:5

I don't see how spears could work in the other classes unless you mean throwing spears.
I also don't see moving boomerangs to other classes as necessary. I mean, maybe, it's basically non consumable throwers. But maybe a non consumable ranger class should be developed rather than taking boomerangs from melee.
Either way, yeah, I agree with expanding all subclasses.

Honestly why not just make some spears for range melee and mage give all 3 classes a bunch of spear weapons to play around with melee gets the regular expanded spears with some thrown spears
Range gets throwing spears
And mage also gets throwing spears and some other magic spear's

I'm not opposed to other classes getting throwing spears but I feel like if every other class gets a weapon that works the same, that takes away from the uniqueness of the weapon type.

 

[Modding Salmon]

I don't see how spears could work in the other classes unless you mean throwing spears.
I also don't see moving boomerangs to other classes as necessary. I mean, maybe, it's basically non consumable throwers. But maybe a non consumable ranger class should be developed rather than taking boomerangs from melee.
Either way, yeah, I agree with expanding all subclasses.

I'm not opposed to other classes getting throwing spears but I feel like if every other class gets a weapon that works the same, that takes away from the uniqueness of the weapon type.

yep if everything has it it’s not unique there should be ways to give spears to mage without all 3 having throwing spears

And yes all subclasses should get more content range mage and melee

 

[Meowlegend]

Dude melee has a lot of subclasses it would be fun to expand them also to add on some spears could be added to mage and ranged + some boomerangs could be moved to ranger and keep some for melee or boomerangs could be completely range



Boomerangs would be nice for a range subclass i remember making a slingshot subclass a while ago for ranger but yo-yos deserve a rework they are fun ngl especially with the new magic yoyo bag coming in 1.4:5




Honestly why not just make some spears for range melee and mage give all 3 classes a bunch of spear weapons to play around with melee gets the regular expanded spears with some thrown spears
Range gets throwing spears
And mage also gets throwing spears and some other magic spear's

Boomerangs makes sense as melee weapons, and even if they dont, Terraria does not have deeply explained classes, so what type of damage weapons deal dont matter. They just have damage types on them, no difference.
Also most of the melee weapons are fillers that no one uses, actual stuff that matters are like 70-80 weapons.

 

[Yousef the H]

before you read anything below, i hate how this subclass is called the "spear" subclass by the community even though it's made of spears, AND lances (they are usually interchangeable but come on there is a difference), and the worst part? JAVELINS ARE RANGED... AND DAYBREAK IS MELEE EVEN THOUGH IT'S A JAVELIN like please they're all polearms BE CONSISTANT RELOGIC

I think that the game would benefit from having more spears and better spears. I believe that melee players would like if they had more options for fighting bosses than what they already have.

One of the ways you can do that is by reworking how melee speed affects spears. Currently, spears don't have their DPS increase significantly after they get past a certain amount of melee speed due to them getting invincibility frame issues.
Higher melee speed increases the DPS of swords, but it doesn't increase the DPS of spears in the same way. Relogic should make spears get affected by melee speed boosts, just like how swords get affected by them.
This will be useful because it will make melee speed builds affect the DPS of more weapons than just swords.

melee speed needs an entire fix aside from this, i've made a post about it and i genuinly think *melee* speed benefits summoner more rn with the exception being terrablade

Relogic should also do something to fix the glitch that causes too much melee speed to make spears fly out of the hands of the user.

that's a velocity issue, you shouldn't encounter it much unless you use TOO much melee speed

In pre-hardmode, if you play on Corruption worlds, you don't have access to a good spear like the Rotted fork. Your only option is using other weapons or using the Rotted fork. So I suggest adding a pre-boss spear that corruption players can use. Maybe a corruption themed spear? A jungle themed spear? A snow biome themed spear?

corruption spear is eh, we need differences between the two biomes. jungle has already far too much in it for all classes, but what lacks anything is the tundra with very few things in it aside from just redesigned forest items
i thought a good lance would be "icicle impale" (yes that's a reference) a lance craftable with materials in the tundra would be cool but likely too weak to matter, i have no idea how to make it viable, i can see this being an early hardmode lance crafted with the ice core thingies

You use the Rotted fork and Storm spear all the way until Skeletron, so I also suggest adding a pre-Skeletron spear that's post-Brain of Cthulhu/Eater of worlds. A hellstone spear? A meteorite spear? Queen bee drop spear? Deerclops drop spear?

deerclops wouldn't make sense, the only melee weapon you get with crafting with hellstone items is gonna be a good way to make hellstone be more melee-y

The Dark lance is fine as it is currently, but it can sometimes outperform the Adamantite glaive and the Titanium trident due to the Dark lance having longer range. So I believe that the Adamantite Glaive and TItanium Trident should have their reach increased by 1 block or 2 blocks or maybe even more, to make them viable against pre-Plantera bosses. I mean, there are no other spears you could use efficiently at that point in the game. The obsidian swordfish has so little range that it's unusable on most bosses of its tier, so maybe add another pre-Plantera spear that would have enough range to make fighting the mechanical bosses on Master mode more bearable, that segment of the game has a lot of methods to craft weapons with, so I doubt y'all would have issues coming up with an idea for what another pre-Mechanical bosses spear would look like.

The Gungnir and Mushroom spear are fine the way they are, though the Ghastly glaive deserves a buff. It is a spear you obtain after beating one mechanical boss but despite being harder to obtain than the Gungnir and Mushroom spear, it performs worse in every aspect that matters. It should have better range or better damage to compensate for its low range.

After beating the mechanical bosses, you only get the Chlorophyte partisan which is decent and the North Pole which is very hard to get. This segment in the game lacks spears. Add more pre-Golem and post-Golem spears to spice up playthroughs.

daybreak is a javelin which is a polearm just like northpole and gungnir but i guess that's still a tad bit too little, still... yoyos have this same treatment late game and i think they both deserve new weapons in those stages
i made a suggestion about adding a third pillar weapon, with a spear being in mind because i forgot daybreak is a polearm


TL;DR
yes, fix melee speed
why are javelins ranged but daybreak (which is a javelin) melee?
icicle impale either a pre hardmode or an early hardmode craftable lance
hellstone spear

 

[Meowlegend]

before you read anything below, i hate how this subclass is called the "spear" subclass by the community even though it's made of spears, AND lances (they are usually interchangeable but come on there is a difference), and the worst part? JAVELINS ARE RANGED... AND DAYBREAK IS MELEE EVEN THOUGH IT'S A JAVELIN like please they're all polearms BE CONSISTANT RELOGIC

daybreak is a javelin
why are javelins ranged but daybreak (which is a javelin) melee?

Daybreak is not a javelin lol. It is too big and heavy to be a javelin. Javelins are thin and light, Daybreak is not. Also, the tooltip calls it a spear. Spears are also throwables, they are just harder to throw compared to Javelins. Daybreak does not have to be a held spear, it being thrown is much better.

 

[Yousef the H]

Daybreak is not a javelin lol. It is too big and heavy to be a javelin. Javelins are thin and light, Daybreak is not. Also, the tooltip calls it a spear. Spears are also throwables, they are just harder to throw compared to Javelins. Daybreak does not have to be a held spear, it being thrown is much better.

it kind of acts like a javelin, but i was wrong indeed it is a spear (i forget they're throwable man)
none of the terraria spears are throwable which is a shame, a right click option to throw them at maybe half the original use time could be a good thing to spice up fights
although that'd make all of them spears, which would mean no lances, and while no one cares i say no!

 

[Meowlegend]

it kind of acts like a javelin, but i was wrong indeed it is a spear (i forget they're throwable man)
none of the terraria spears are throwable which is a shame, a right click option to throw them at maybe half the original use time could be a good thing to spice up fights
although that'd make all of them spears, which would mean no lances, and while no one cares i say no!

I wish they were throwables too.
Melee class has many weapons that should be improved, spears and yoyos are one of them.


Also jousting lances are funny

 

[Lancer of hatred]

before you read anything below, i hate how this subclass is called the "spear" subclass by the community even though it's made of spears, AND lances (they are usually interchangeable but come on there is a difference), and the worst part? JAVELINS ARE RANGED... AND DAYBREAK IS MELEE EVEN THOUGH IT'S A JAVELIN like please they're all polearms BE CONSISTANT RELOGIC

The spear subclass includes multiple different types of polearms just like how swords include maces, sticks, living creatures, frying pans, canes, etc. To be more precise, the spear class is made out of polearms not spears. Spears are a type of polearm and lances are a type of spear.
Throwing weapons like knives and throwable spears tend to switch between melee, mage and ranger depending on what's convenient. I personally don't have an issue with it since at the points you obtain throwable knives and spears for melee, you have boomerangs, flails and projectile swords with similar range, though it's indeed kinda weird how throwing weapons don't have a well-defined class.

melee speed needs an entire fix aside from this, i've made a post about it and i genuinly think *melee* speed benefits summoner more rn with the exception being terrablade

Yeah, I agree that melee speed overall needs a rework. Melee speed tends to benefit the DPS of true melee swords, but not the DPS of their projectiles due to it being separate from the weapon. So if you like true melee, maybe opt for melee speed. Same if you main weapons that have their DPS increased significantly by melee speed. I think it's only the True night's edge that benefits from melee speed? I'd have to check. Either way, I disagree with melee speed being better for summoner than it is for melee. A full damage build benefits summoner more since it would be increasing the damage of the minions, sentries and whips rather than just increasing the DPS of the whips. It's also better if you're mixing class because more damage benefits all classes and the minion you're using to assist you.

that's a velocity issue, you shouldn't encounter it much unless you use TOO much melee speed

You're right, but either way, I'd prefer to have the graphics of fast spears reworked just to have them look nicer. I am pretty sure the Gungnir can start flying out of your hand even when you don't have a lot of melee speed.

corruption spear is eh, we need differences between the two biomes. jungle has already far too much in it for all classes, but what lacks anything is the tundra with very few things in it aside from just redesigned forest items
i thought a good lance would be "icicle impale" (yes that's a reference) a lance craftable with materials in the tundra would be cool but likely too weak to matter, i have no idea how to make it viable, i can see this being an early hardmode lance crafted with the ice core thingies

Yeah, that'd be nice.
I was thinking spears could get a Ball O Hurt / Meatball situation where the Rotted fork gets a corruption counterpart just like the flails.

daybreak is a javelin which is a polearm just like northpole and gungnir but i guess that's still a tad bit too little, still... yoyos have this same treatment late game and i think they both deserve new weapons in those stages
i made a suggestion about adding a third pillar weapon, with a spear being in mind because i forgot daybreak is a polearm

Rather than add a third pillar weapon that's a spear, why not make the Daybreak act like a spear with one click and like a javelin with the other click?

That is very similar to what the TRAE mod did lol