That would, at best, indicate that the Flairon in particular is overpowered (The Terra Blade would be, and is, too, but it at least is going to be gated infor 1.3), which, unless it were to be disproportionately powerful in relation to the other Duke Fishron drops, would be difficult to confirm.
Game Mechanics Fixing Melee
- Thread starter neoselket
- Start date
neoselket
Ice Queen
the reason melee is overpowered is because it has the highest defense in the game, while also having insane DPS when using things like the flairon, as well as having lifestealing vampire knives. the examples you stated are powerful, but not near as powerful as melee. and good point about the melee knockback thing, i'll change that.
DarkWolf658
Terrarian
Plz explain how neva miss bullets and stealth arent as good as the flairon. And also explain how razorpine an spectre regen arent as good as vampire knives.
The stealth part doesn´t seem to affect minibosses, but the increased damage can be used to compensate for that, specially with Crystal Bullets and a Chain Gun, so the problem with it is that you can´t dodge.
neoselket
Ice Queen
chlorophyte bullets are good, but they have WAY lower DPS than the flairon, which also has homing, and standing still isn't the best battle strategy, especially with moderatly low defense unless you want to be squashed like a ripe tomato on a highway. as for spectre armor, the damage with the razorpine is good, as is the healing, but the -40% damage can really cut back on the damage, whereas beetle armor can actually increase damage, as well as having very high defense to combine with the lifesteal. basically, the survival value is somewhat the same except with much higher defense, thus lowering the need for lifesteal and allowing the player to switch to more powerful weapons.
also, i've edited the main post a bit with the help of some of the criticism.
Xylia
Terrarian
Who needs stealth, when nothing can hurt you because you've got 108-109 Defense (With Ironskin Potion)? That's not even counting the beetle buff.
"Neva Miss Bullets"? That's cute, because my Flairon doesn't miss either and has infinite "ammo" and homes in on enemies, lol.
I can easily solo Pumpkin Moon Wave #14 or Frost Moon ~10-12 with a very modest trap arena (just a bunch of spiky ball traps on the ground, like 40 or so of them on a 1s timer) and very rarely worry about my health, as long as I use an ironskin and rejuv potion, have campfire and heart lantern nearby.
If I actually worried, I could actually use heart statues, but I've not needed them yet.
The case of Spectre armor would be able to be avoided by using the Mask, which will pretty much get insane with the damage.
As for Shroomite, it´s more of it being difficult to use. Against the FM, it´s very deadly against anything but Ice Queens, as it´s possible to make an arena so that Everscreams find it difficult to hit you, while Santa-NK1s have terrible aiming skills.
MegaMage314 🌳
Living Tree
It doesn't have to if logic is being pushed aside for the sake of something more important, and in this case it's balance and fun.
Xylia
Terrarian
It can work to some extent, but it seems that the later you get in hardmode, the more balanced the weapons are assuming you're wearing at least the proper armor.
You can use a Megashark on Prime and Twins while wearing Melee Titanium/Adamantite, you could even do so on Plantera... but if you try going after Fishron with some sort of ranged weapon (not sure what you'd use for him if you're ranged...) it probably wouldn't work very well, and I can personally tell you that as awesome as the Tsunami bow is, it doesn't work very well while wearing tank armor while trying to do Pumpkin Moon, even with Holy Arrows. It works OK-ish, but then I whipped out a Flairon and did 3x better, easy.
Now if I had been wearing the proper bow&arrow armor, well now... I bet I would have done far, far more damage and it would have been much, much more effective.
I also notice it with magic-based weapons. Sure, Magnet Sphere, Inferno Fork, etc can hurt and hurt surprisingly well........ on mobs that I can 2-shot with a Terra Blade or Flairon. And I run out of MP after like 4-5 uses of these kinds of weapons. Now, if I were wearing the Spectre DPS armor, I'd be raining down all sorts of damage with that stuff.
They want you to be able to have some cross-class ability, but don't expect to go toe-to-toe against Fishron or the Moons (and I assume 1.3 content?) with it, unless you're doing something like a Nimbus Rod for a little extra damage, like I do with Golem. It's just there for a little extra damage, so why not? Same with minions. It's free damage.
Varsia
Empress of Light
I would assume that the 1.3 content would cater to all kinds of players, considering my main character, while primarily melee, does tend to use other weapons when they would be deemed useful. So, essentially, a balanced class. It'd seem silly to not allow balanced classes to not be able to get past it.
Considering it's given us all this time with "mix-and-match! Do whatever!", you wouldn't expect some extra progression to require me to use some particular class, cause that just ruins the whole diversity of it all.
Also, I've heard it be mentioned that Fishron and the Moons are just side content of something. So I guess that's something.
Xylia
Terrarian
I never said that they were trying to force us to use a certain class for something, I merely said that as you get towards Fishron and Moons, weapons of a different class than your armor quickly starts losing effectiveness against the most current content.
I don't know if they are going to scale back Fishron/Moons in 1.3 to make them more accessible like they did the Mechs for 1.2 or not.
But I wouldn't expect to wear Beetle Armor and be using Tsunami or something and performing well. Maybe passably, barely?
That, and another thing we need to consider, is that melee gets projectile weapons late-game, and we no longer need magic or ranged weapons. We can use them but they don't work very well, because we got plenty of ranged options already. That's why they allow the use of guns in early-to-mid Hardmode; you need some sort of projectile weapon and so they seem to say "use a Megashark!". Unless, of course, you wanna use light discs, but they're not really my kinda thing lol.
As for Fishron/Moons being "Side Content", I beg to differ.
Once you get up to Golem/HM Dungeon, where else can you go except for Fishron and the Moons, at least until 1.3?
Fishron is the obvious "next step" as he drops some of the best items in the game currently in 1.2.4. There are some side-grades to be found in the Moons, but Fishron is arguably easier than the Moons, so it is usually Golem/Dungeon -> Fishron -> Moons as Fishron's gear works really nice in the Moons.
Nutella Fairy
Skeletron Prime
Why not just nerf Flairon and Scourge of Corrpurtor's stats? I don't get why ruining melee weapons makes things balanced. It's just those two weapons that everyone overuses need nerfs.
Xylia
Terrarian
It isn't that they "need" nerfs, in fact the Scourge isn't even all that powerful. Nerf it and it might as well be useless, considering all the stuff you gotta go through to get one.
As for the Flairon, well... if you nerf it, then you run into a problem where melee doesn't have much to keep up with magic users and their ridiculous setups involving the Spectre Armor, where they can throw stuff all over the screen and do ridiculous damage doing it.
I'd say keep Melee just where it is. Ranged could maybe use a little bit of a buff maybe. That, or a better selection of weapons. At the end of the game, it is what... Tsunami, T.Shotgun, or Sniper Rifle? not much choice there, TBH...
EDIT: And of course, Chain Gun if you like Rambo-style... forgot about the Chain Gun.
Nutella Fairy
Skeletron Prime
Pulse Bow, Stynger, Megashark, Chain Gun, Snowman Cannon, Stake Launcher, Candy Corn Rifle... Are you kidding me?
Xylia
Terrarian
Stynger isn't really all that powerful when you compare it to Fishron's drops, neither is the Megashark. Chain Gun I already edited and admitted I forgot about it. The Snowman Cannon, well I wouldn't know; I've never got one to drop? *shrugs*
Stake Launcher... IMO, it fires a bit slow and it works great on Vampires.... how often do you fight vampires, again?
And the CCR... it's OK, but the limited range and the arc can be a turnoff at times.
EDIT: And another problem with ranged, is that magic gets lots of homing projectiles, and Melee does as well with the Flairon and also the Scourge. For Ranged to do this... again, you're looking at T.Shotgun, Chain Gun, or the Sniper Rifle because the other listed weapons use special ammo that does not home. And even then... Chlorophyte? lol. Not like that rains out of the sky or anything...
Homing weapons will be much more effective as a rule than non-homing weapons.
Nutella Fairy
Skeletron Prime
Stake launcher has insane peircing, and it murders the first few waves within a few seconds, and I didn't even mention the all-powerful Pulse Bow. Piranha Gun is a dungeon guardian killer.
Xylia
Terrarian
For the few times you have all kinds of enemies in a straight line, I suppose the Stake Launcher could have its niche. How often is that, again? Moons, maybe... but don't most people use traps for the little small fry enemies and focus on the bigger stuff?
Pulse Bow did not seem all that powerful when I tried it. It has a cool ricochet ability, but that's about it. Oh, and it uses it's own ammo type, or shall I say, it seems to "forget" the ammo type you're actually using.
And the Piranha Gun... well, ok, sure you can kill the Dungeon Guardian with it... and... what else, again?
When you get to the end of the game when you're making these big decisions about what weapons you're going to use... you're probably thinking in terms of Pumpkings and Ice Queens, as well as helping burst down stuff like Everscreams and Mourning Woods faster than the traps can. But once the Pumpkings/Ice Queens come out, that's when you need something good and as a ranged... I find the list rather lacking. If you want to stay alive, you gotta do a lot of dodging which doesn't give you lots of time to aim. That's when homing projectiles really shine, you don't have to aim, you just fire in the general direction of the enemy while flying circles around him. Below, the traps continue to mow down the small fry mobs while you work on the boss.
The Piranha Gun might sound good for that, maybe. However, you could also go Magic or Melee and do quite a bit more DPS with superior weapons, like Flairon, Razorblade Typhoon, etc.
EDIT: Reading the wiki, it sounds like the Snowman Cannon is probably the ideal choice... but wait... it is dropped during Frost Moon, lol. By the time you GET one of those bad boys... you probably are done, or near-done with the moons already, lol.
Nutella Fairy
Skeletron Prime
Against Ice Queens? Let's take a look at my chain gun, with never miss chlorophyte bullets, that, with shroomite armor, always crits, dealing about 150 damage, with insane firing speed. And I can also activate stealth mode, because ice queen goes bye bye before she touches me. RANGED IS JUST AS GOOD AS MELEE.
Xylia
Terrarian
Yeah if you don't mind blowing a ton of Chlorophyte and... you gotta GET a Chain Gun first, and they come from... yes, Frost Moon. From Santa-NK1.
Not exactly the easiest thing to get ahold of, lol. Again, you gotta wait until the end or near the end before getting anything that's really nice.
Now, once 1.3 comes out, if they end up making the Moons more accessible, this might not be so bad, but right now... I still think Ranged could use a little love in the Post-Golem but Pre-Moons department.
Or, at the very least, make Chlorophyte Bullets a bit more reasonable, like 1 per 200 instead of 1 per 70.