Weapons & Equip Imp/Spider/Twins AI changes

[qwerty3.14]

I mean, I always respect the numbers, but considering just how easy Hornet Minions are to get, not locked behind anything but a readily available, summoned Boss; I really feel like buffing them is a reach. I'm not saying you're entirely wrong, but on the other side of this, what obstacles in early-Hardmode really call for it? There's no Boss or enemy I can think of that calls for a major buff to Hornets, even in Master Mode.

If you are going to use the hornet staff and the starcannon together, give me an example of an enemy or boss that you would be killing faster with the bee armor build vs. the necro armor build.

In addition, the Bee equipment is getting a buff, to include the added bonus of pre-Hardmode Pygmy Necklace. It really feels like this kinda stuff is being analyzed in a vacuum, when it shouldn't be. Just think about how powerful the Bee equipment is... really, Ranger stuff aside (let's also consider that 1.4.1 is buffing them). Summoner is just fine now, but will also get to use Stinger Necklace, Beenades, Honey Comb (+ healing buff), Hive Pack & Bee Gun! What more can you ask for, that's crazy!?

Just because other bee equipment is good that doesn't mean the hornet is good. If anything do to how good a lot of be items are that just means the hornet staff should get buffed.

As for the pygmy necklace, that's an accesroy, lets see what it might be competing with... you know what else is getting buffed in 1.4.1? The magma stone, it will now inflict a new debuff that does 15 dps. You would need Bee armor and a load of menacing modifiers for 1 extra hornet to add 15 dps.

There's also the stinger necklace, effectively adding 2.5 damage to every attack, meaning that it you're landing 5 or more atacks per second it will do more damage than an extra hornet. You know what attacks 5 times per second? 5 hornets. So if you have a summon build going with 5 hornets you get more damage output from a stinger necklace then adding another hornet, and if you got space for another accesory you can throw on the sharktooth necklace too. You also get to add this armor penetration to your main weapon too.

 

[Pigman Δ]

I'm going to resolve this conflict once and for all by DPS testing certain summons against The Twins.

DAMAGE RATING SYSTEM (lowest to highest) F, E, D, C, B, A, S, X (Ideal rating is S, X means OP)
AI RATING SYSTEM (lowest to highest) durr, Stupid, Bad, Decent, Good, Smart, Einstein (Ideal rating is Einstein)

VAMP FROG
Gyazo
This thing is OK against ground enemies, but pales against bosses even BEFORE its level.
DAMAGE: C
AI: STUPID
NEEDS DAMAGE and AI BUFF.

SPIDER
Gyazo
It's pretty powerful... if it is able to reach the enemy. I propose simply making it able to fly at targets.
DAMAGE: A
AI: DECENT
NEEDS AI BUFF.

IMP
Gyazo
haha it's even worse than I thought 11-24 DPS
DAMAGE: D
AI: BAD
NEEDS HUGE AI and DAMAGE BUFF.

BLADE
Gyazo
It's not got the best DPS in the world, but it's really smart.
DAMAGE: B
AI: EINSTEIN
SPECIAL MENTION
Gyazo
haha blade + ichor + good tag damage combo go brrrrrrr
(the start of the gif shows the blade doing ludicrous DPS [which then diminishes as the tag and ichor wear off])
THIS UPGRADES THE DAMAGE TO: X
MAY EVEN NEED DAMAGE NERF.

SANGUINE
Gyazo
The best summon to get for it's point in the game if you aren't willing to use Golden Shower (stupid) or not prepared to go close and use a whip (smart, except in the case of the Blades)
DAMAGE: S
AI: EINSTEIN
PERFECTLY BALANCED, LIKE ALL THINGS SHOULD BE.
HOWEVER, NEEDS AN ATTAINABILITY BUFF.

DRAGON
Gyazo
An incredibly powerful summon that is a great choice for ML. Def needs a nerf.
DAMAGE: X
AI: SMART
NEEDS A DAMAGE NERF.

CELL
Gyazo
Actually a very decent summon, but it has the incredibly bad fortune to be competing with the Stardust Dragon.
DAMAGE: A+
AI: SMART
NEEDS A DAMAGE BUFF.

XENO
Gyazo
Whoa... This is actually much better than I thought... The best summon at this point, replace the Blades and Sanguines with this.
DAMAGE: S
AI: EINSTEIN
PERFECTLY BALANCED, LIKE ALL THINGS SHOULD BE.

*Note: At this point I had to murder the Twins and spawn another lot as Spaz was getting dangerously close to phase 2, which has higher defense and is faster.*

SLIME
Gyazo
So the Slime has better DPS than the Hornet and just as good DPS as the Imp. Think about that. (Note, just after I recorded this GIF, the DPS went up to around 13)
Unfortunately, it's near impossible to obtain early enough.
DAMAGE: A
AI: GOOD
PERFECTLY BALANCED, LIKE ALL THINGS SHOULD BE.
HOWEVER, NEEDS AN ATTAINABILITY BUFF.

FINCH
Gyazo
Oh... Oh dear... This thing is just... awful...
DAMAGE: D
AI: BAD
NEEDS AN AI and DAMAGE BUFF.
ALSO NEEDS AN ATTAINABILITY BUFF.

PIRATE
Gyazo
Huh, this is so much better than I thought. Still, it can't fly, shame.
DAMAGE: A
AI: BAD
NEEDS AN AI BUFF.
ALSO NEEDS AN ATTAINABILITY BUFF.

TWINS
Gyazo
The Twins appear to be good at bosses, unfortunately the Blades and Bats are better. Oh, and the Twins are further on.
DAMAGE: B
AI: DECENT
NEEDS A SLIGHT DAMAGE and LARGE AI BUFF.

PYGMY
Gyazo
It seemed OK (not good though, remember this is a post-plantera summon) until I flew up. It stopped attacking immediately to catch up. Unfortunately, 90% of the time during battles you are flying.
DAMAGE: C
AI: durr
NEEDS A LARGE DAMAGE and RIDICULOUS AI BUFF.

TIGER
Gyazo
Oh well... It seemed really good until I flew. Then it pulled a Pygmy Staff.
DAMAGE: A+
AI: durr
NEEDS A RIDICULOUS AI BUFF.

RAVEN
Gyazo
Same as above, except the Raven isn't that good for DPS for how it is obtained (pumpmoon is so difficult!)
DAMAGE: B
AI: Stupid
NEEDS A DAMAGE and LARGE AI BUFF.

DEADLY SPHERE
Gyazo
Same story as the last few, offensively bad when flying, which is like 99% of the time.
DAMAGE: B+
AI: Bad
NEEDS A DAMAGE and LARGE AI BUFF.

SHARKNADO
Gyazo
This is so inaccurate it's funny. Remember the only bosses after Duke are EoL and ML, both of which are MUCH harder to hit than the Twins. (Suggestion: Make it home)
DAMAGE: A
AI: durr
NEEDS A HEAVY AI BUFF.

TERRAPRISMA
Gyazo
Ok, so it may look like it is only half as strong as the Dragon, but a 2-segment dragon isn't twice as strong as a 1-segment dragon, whereas 2 terraprismas are twice as good as 1.
DAMAGE: S
AI; Einstein
PERFECTLY BALANCED, LIKE ALL THINGS SHOULD BE.


P.S Most summons have very respectable DPS. The problem lies with the fact that 90% of the time, you are going fast, which means that most summons will drop attacking to follow you, stopping their damage output in its tracks.
The problem with summon balance is that you will always be able to do this:
Gyazo

 

[qwerty3.14]

TERRAPRISMA
Gyazo
WAIT HANG ON HOW IS THIS ONLY 50% AS DPSY AS THE DRAGON
At least it's much smarter I guess...
DAMAGE: B+
AI; Einstein
NEEDS A HEAVY DAMAGE BUFF.

It's not 50% of the dragon, well if there's only 1 it is but 2 terraprismas is twice as good as 1 terraprisma, whereas a 2 segment long dragon isn't twice as strong as a 1 segment long one.

 

[J Bame]

CELL
Gyazo
Actually a slightly decent summon, but it has the incredibly bad fortune to be competing with the Stardust Dragon. It still isn't the greatest, though.
DAMAGE: B
AI: SMART
NEEDS A DAMAGE BUFF.

The Stardust Cell fires extra shots at enemies you are attacking with another weapon, you are not showing this in the gif which is why its damage looks low to you. There is also the Celled debuff, which doesn't do a lot but it's still there.

That being said, it's still weaker than the Dragon with the extra shots factored in, but the latter needs a nerf, this thing is perfectly fine.

TERRAPRISMA
Gyazo
WAIT HANG ON HOW IS THIS ONLY 50% AS DPSY AS THE DRAGON
At least it's much smarter I guess...
DAMAGE: B+
AI; Einstein
NEEDS A HEAVY DAMAGE BUFF.

The Dragon's damage has diminishing returns (A dragon with 2 segments isn't twice as strong as 1 segment), with let's say 8 minion slots both of them have comparable DPS. Not to mention that both weapons are still broken so buffing either of them would be stupid

 

[Pigman Δ]

It's not 50% of the dragon, well if there's only 1 it is but 2 terraprismas is twice as good as 1 terraprisma, whereas a 2 segment long dragon isn't twice as strong as a 1 segment long one.

Oh yes of course, how did I not think of that?

Gonna edit it based on the feedback, thanks
EDIT: Done

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

If you are going to use the hornet staff and the starcannon together, give me an example of an enemy or boss that you would be killing faster with the bee armor build vs. the necro armor build.

Let's take my last Summoner play-through as a perfect example, right... it's important to keep a few things in mind that often get overlooked when we just focus on the numbers.

• Star Cannon ammo is expensive. I only plan to use it against WoF, or any other, more difficult Boss, so there's prep time (that means, in my case, it's a Trump Card).
• My Main Weapon at this point in the game, is likely either Snapthorn or Beenades. Considering this is a play-through, money & resources need to be considered.
• Minions are an extremely reliable source of free, ranged ammunition, which means, you will cut down the need to fire your weapon by a considerable amount.
• There's also the Journey that needs to be considered, I can say with confidence that I feel more conformable traversing the Master Mode Jungle as Summoner, more than other Classes.
• I'm not a very good shot, but as a Summoner, I don't really need to be. A good amount of my DPS is gonna be free & that means somethin' because I beat Master Mode.
• Also, let's not forget that dying eats up resources, money & time. Summoner Class has excellent survivability in some instances, especially when retreating from enemies.

I don't wanna go on & on, but Master Mode for me, was a battle of attrition. Something dying faster was only part of why I won, it was also because I was able to secure more resources, ammunition & buffs over time. A Boss that took someone 5 tries, might've only taken me 2-3. Most of my time was spent exploring & I did little to no mining. It's not always about killing things the fastest, we have an entire gameplay experience to take into consideration here.

Just because other bee equipment is good that doesn't mean the hornet is good. If anything do to how good a lot of be items are that just means the hornet staff should get buffed.

Again, I don't see a reason for it. It's not that I totally disagree, but by how much though? I've said it many times here, but killing Queen Bee will pretty much carry you all-the-way into early-Hardmode, easily. This is with Bee Armor, the amount of time & resources it preserves, plus all the other goodies, plus Pygmy Necklace in 1.4.1, plus Bewitching Table, plus whatever OP Weapon you're using at the time. I mean, just with this set-up, had I know better, I could've gone straight for Imp Staff right away.

As for the pygmy necklace, that's an accesroy, lets see what it might be competing with... you know what else is getting buffed in 1.4.1? The magma stone, it will now inflict a new debuff that does 15 dps. You would need Bee armor and a load of menacing modifiers for 1 extra hornet to add 15 dps.

Sounds powerful, but I don't see why a Summoner can't also use Magma Stone +Minions & even a Yoyo maybe. See, this entire set-up can get pretty out-of-hand, quickly.

There's also the stinger necklace, effectively adding 2.5 damage to every attack, meaning that it you're landing 5 or more atacks per second it will do more damage than an extra hornet. You know what attacks 5 times per second? 5 hornets. So if you have a summon build going with 5 hornets you get more damage output from a stinger necklace then adding another hornet, and if you got space for another accesory you can throw on the sharktooth necklace too. You also get to add this armor penetration to your main weapon too.

Which can be swapped in & out for a Bewitching Table buff, depending on what's more important to you at the time. There's nothing stopping a Summoner from taking advantage of this new upgrades, especially if we're still discussion pre-Hardmode; now imagine Hornets being that broken in addition to this...

 

[qwerty3.14]

I'm going to resolve this conflict once and for all by DPS testing certain summons against The Twins.

DAMAGE RATING SYSTEM (lowest to highest) F, E, D, C, B, A, S, X (Ideal rating is S, X means OP)
AI RATING SYSTEM (lowest to highest) durr, Stupid, Bad, Decent, Good, Smart, Einstein (Ideal rating is Einstein)

VAMP FROG
Gyazo
This thing is OK against ground enemies, but pales against bosses even BEFORE its level.
DAMAGE: C
AI: STUPID
NEEDS DAMAGE and AI BUFF.

This minion has good knockback and attack speed, I've found it to be all round the best pre hardmode minion but that isn't saying much, I just want it to use local iFrames so that I can actually benifit from a big army of these things.

SPIDER
Gyazo
It's pretty powerful... if it is able to reach the enemy. I propose simply making it able to fly at targets.
DAMAGE: A
AI: DECENT
NEEDS AI BUFF.

I really don't thik this thing needs a buff, it may not be the best for fast flying boss fights but it is amazing at everything else. Maybye even too good.

IMP
Gyazo
haha it's even worse than I thought 11-24 DPS
DAMAGE: D
AI: BAD
NEEDS HUGE AI and DAMAGE BUFF.

averages out to 13.6dps... when you consider that a horde of these things can easily cause some of the shots to miss due to iFrames its comparable to the hornets' damage output.

TWINS
Gyazo
The Twins appear to be good at bosses, unfortunately the Blades and Bats are better. Oh, and the Twins are further on.
DAMAGE: B
AI: DECENT
NEEDS A SLIGHT DAMAGE and LARGE AI BUFF.

I think this mostly just needs local iFrames, and to stop getting stuck on things.

TIGER
Gyazo
Oh well... It seemed really good until I flew. Then it pulled a Pygmy Staff.
DAMAGE: A+
AI: durr
NEEDS A RIDICULOUS AI BUFF.

I'd rather see this thing get a big damage buff, I want to see this thing mow down grounded enemies!

RAVEN
Gyazo
Same as above, except the Raven isn't that good for DPS for how it is obtained (pumpmoon is so difficult!)
DAMAGE: B
AI: Stupid
NEEDS A DAMAGE and LARGE AI BUFF.

I think this minion is fine, if you think pupkin moon is too hard, then all the pumpkin moon weapons would need to be buffed.

DEADLY SPHERE
Gyazo
Same story as the last few, offensively bad when flying, which is like 99% of the time.
DAMAGE: B+
AI: Bad
NEEDS A DAMAGE and LARGE AI BUFF.

Moreoless has the same issues as the optic staff.

SHARKNADO
Gyazo
This is so inaccurate it's funny. Remember the only bosses after Duke are EoL and ML, both of which are MUCH harder to hit than the Twins. (Suggestion: Make it home)
DAMAGE: A
AI: durr
NEEDS A HEAVY AI BUFF.

Similar to the tiger I'd rather this thing get a bunch of damage, if its AI got fixed completely it'd just be a xeno staff clone whereas if this thing got a big damage buff it could serve as a 'bomber' minion that would disintigrate big slow enemies.

 

[qwerty3.14]

Let's take my last Summoner play-through as a perfect example, right... it's important to keep a few things in mind that often get overlooked when we just focus on the numbers.

• Star Cannon ammo is expensive. I only plan to use it against WoF, or any other, more difficult Boss, so there's prep time (that means, in my case, it's a Trump Card).
• My Main Weapon at this point in the game, is likely either Snapthorn or Beenades. Considering this is a play-through, money & resources need to be considered.
• Minions are an extremely reliable source of free, ranged ammunition, which means, you will cut down the need to fire your weapon by a considerable amount.
• There's also the Journey that needs to be considered, I can say with confidence that I feel more conformable traversing the Master Mode Jungle as Summoner, more than other Classes.
• I'm not a very good shot, but as a Summoner, I don't really need to be. A good amount of my DPS is gonna be free & that means somethin' because I beat Master Mode.
• Also, let's not forget that dying eats up resources, money & time. Summoner Class has excellent survivability in some instances, especially when retreating from enemies.

I didn't bring out the star cannon you did, and as I stated the star cannot crit! Other late preahrdmode ranged weapons (like the beenade) Actually get MORE out of necro armor because of the crit bonus.

I don't wanna go on & on, but Master Mode for me, was a battle of attrition. Something dying faster was only part of why I won, it was also because I was able to secure more resources, ammunition & buffs over time. A Boss that took someone 5 tries, might've only taken me 2-3. Most of my time was spent exploring & I did little to no mining. It's not always about killing things the fastest, we have an entire gameplay experience to take into consideration here.

I'm not saying that you can't use the hornet just that as of right now its too weak to the point where it can't argue getting investment into it.

Again, I don't see a reason for it. It's not that I totally disagree, but by how much though? I've said it many times here, but killing Queen Bee will pretty much carry you all-the-way into early-Hardmode, easily. This is with Bee Armor, the amount of time & resources it preserves, plus all the other goodies, plus Pygmy Necklace in 1.4.1, plus Bewitching Table, plus whatever OP Weapon you're using at the time. I mean, just with this set-up, had I know better, I could've gone straight for Imp Staff right away.

This isn't about other queen bee gear this is about the hornet staff.

Sounds powerful, but I don't see why a Summoner can't also use Magma Stone +Minions & even a Yoyo maybe. See, this entire set-up can get pretty out-of-hand, quickly.


Which can be swapped in & out for a Bewitching Table buff, depending on what's more important to you at the time. There's nothing stopping a Summoner from taking advantage of this new upgrades, especially if we're still discussion pre-Hardmode; now imagine Hornets being that broken in addition to this...

It sounds like you missed my point. The pygmy necklace isn't free it costs an accesory slot, if you equip the pygmy necklace you get an extra hornet, so I was comparing how an extra hornet compares to the other accesories, and as I demonstrated even if you're using bee armor and have 5 hornets, there's at least 3 accesories that provide better offensive bonuses.

If the hornet staff was better it would make the pygmy necklace situationally better than the other accesories, for example if the hornet staff had 18 base dps it could do more damage than the magma stone against a single target, however if you were to say hit a line of enemies with a sunfury the magma stone would apply 15 extra dps to all of them.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

I didn't bring out the star cannon you did, and as I stated the star cannot crit! Other late preahrdmode ranged weapons (like the beenade) Actually get MORE out of necro armor because of the crit bonus.

I was only discussing the Star Cannon because it was my experience, perhaps it might bring some things to light. From what I've been seeing, some players were trying to go through Master Mode using only Whips, which I try often to make clear, isn't even a lil' bit intuitive. There was never a time in my experience that I ever considered using Whips as a Main Weapon, a good idea. The game itself, never lead me to believe that using only Whips & Minions was a good idea either, not a single visual cue, NPC comment or suggestion.

It's not directed toward you specifically, but i'm trying to be a transparent as possible when I say my experience in 1.4.0 was organic.

I'm not saying that you can't use the hornet just that as of right now its too weak to the point where it can't argue getting investment into it.

I just find it odd, because I never got to a point in the game where I ever felt my Hornet Minions weren't doing their job. There's something in the game I must've missed, which is why I tend to overshare, but the only response I've gotten so far is "sTop uSing sTAr CaNnoN"! Because of how easy it was to spam my way into early-Hardmode, I can only imagine stronger Hornet Minions, because I promise you, had they been any more powerful, I'd've probably fought the Twins right away instead of getting the Spider Gear.

This isn't about other queen bee gear this is about the hornet staff.

I keep trying to make it clear that Minions are synergy Weapons in my eyes, I don't analyze them in a vacuum, because it'll have you arrive to false conclusions; take Pigman Δ's take on Spider Minions for example... no competent Summoner believes that they need a buff; that's just insanity.

It sounds like you missed my point. The pygmy necklace isn't free it costs an accesory slot, if you equip the pygmy necklace you get an extra hornet, so I was comparing how an extra hornet compares to the other accesories, and as I demonstrated even if you're using bee armor and have 5 hornets, there's at least 3 accesories that provide better offensive bonuses.

Perhaps, but I'm also taking into consideration what it is that the player who chooses the necklace over another accessory is trying to do with their build. As I've said before, once I killed Queen Bee, I won early-Hardmode, easy. This is Master Mode, mind you! I can only imagine doing the very same thing with buffed Hornets & it has me shook...

If the hornet staff was better it would make the pygmy necklace situationally better than the other accesories, for example if the hornet staff had 18 base dps it could do more damage than the magma stone against the magma stone on a single target, however if you were to say hit a line of enemies with a sunfury the magma stone would apply 15 extra dps to all of them.

 

[SaltyDog]

I should have said the xeno and the stardust cell need buffed as their dps is low. The deadly sphere and the stardust dragon need to be improved as well, but their dps is fine. The problem with them is that they are worthless in many places due to attacking anything just by touching it, eg; the dungeon (post golem), and the underworld(though the underworld is the same for all minions).

 

[Dapling]

I should have said the xeno and the stardust cell need buffed as their dps is low. The deadly sphere and the stardust dragon need to be improved as well, but their dps is fine. The problem with them is that they are worthless in many places due to attacking anything just by touching it, eg; the dungeon (post golem), and the underworld.

Their DPS isn't low, the Stardust dragon's DPS is just absurd and should have been nerfed a long time ago. You should not get literally the DPS of another player using a vortex beater from one minion while you aren't even doing a summoner build.

 

[SaltyDog]

You know even the deadly sphere, despite being gotten before any of the other three, is stronger than the xeno and the stardust cell. Then again if your talking about the stardust dragon, the stardust dragon is just insane. Their problem is the fact that they will kill anything and everything.

 

[Dapling]

You know even the deadly sphere, despite being gotten before any of the other three, is stronger than the xeno and the stardust cell. Then again if your talking about the stardust dragon, the stardust dragon is just insane. Their problem is the fact that they will kill anything and everything.

The Stardust Cell has infinite range and literally becomes twice as strong from using a non-summon weapon alongside it. People only call it underpowered because they don't use it. The Deadly Sphere Staff gets stuck on walls and is much slower with lower range than the Xeno and Cell staffs. Not sure where you pulled the deduction of it being stronger than the cell staff from, especially because even if you take the easy strat of just looking at numbers the sphere staff still doesn't do well. Finally, this isn't mentioning that you compared the 2 minions that literally can't miss to one that is particularly unreliable.

 

[qwerty3.14]

I just find it odd, because I never got to a point in the game where I ever felt my Hornet Minions weren't doing their job. There's something in the game I must've missed, which is why I tend to overshare, but the only response I've gotten so far is "sTop uSing sTAr CaNnoN"! Because of how easy it was to spam my way into early-Hardmode, I can only imagine stronger Hornet Minions, because I promise you, had they been any more powerful, I'd've probably fought the Twins right away instead of getting the Spider Gear.

Spider staff has like 52 base dps, hornet has 9 base dps... so how is doubling that to just 18 dps going to cause you to skip the spider staff?

 

[SaltyDog]

The Stardust Cell has infinite range and literally becomes twice as strong from using a non-summon weapon alongside it. People only call it underpowered because they don't use it. The Deadly Sphere Staff gets stuck on walls and is much slower with lower range than the Xeno and Cell staffs. Not sure where you pulled the deduction of it being stronger than the cell staff from, especially because even if you take the easy strat of just looking at numbers the sphere staff still doesn't do well. Finally, this isn't mentioning that you compared the 2 minions that literally can't miss to one that is particularly unreliable.

I'm sorry but I literally used all four of those, as well as the fact that I am a melee and I use minions simply as a side weapon when I am afk or something so I don't die. From experience I have died more times when using the xeno and the stardust cell than I have when using the other two.

 

[Dapling]

I'm sorry but I literally used all four of those, as well as the fact that I am a melee and I use minions simply as a side weapon when I am afk or something so I don't die. From experience I have died more times when using the xeno and the stardust cell than I have when using the other two.

That doesn't really prove anything, considering I have been doing dedicated summoner builds for years and have used all of those in multiple scenarios from multiple progression tiers. You could argue that doesn't prove anything either, but eh... we're both just using anecdotes here, the most unreliable form of evidence. Try using the Deadly Sphere Staff against Enraged Empress and compare it to the Stardust Cell staff. The empress will get slammed by walls of projectiles assuming you use a weapon alongside them, while the deadly sphere staff will want you to stay in range where you'll die instantly.

 

[SaltyDog]

I could kill them off with the last prism almost instantly and why would I still be using the deadly sphere anyway as I have the stardust dragon which is about ten times better.

 

[Dapling]

I could kill them off with the last prism almost instantly and why would I still be using the deadly sphere anyway as I have the stardust dragon which is about ten times better.

Because earlier you said it's so great that it apparently outclasses the Stardust Cell staff. And you also just completely missed the point of testing.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

Spider staff has like 52 base dps, hornet has 9 base dps... so how is doubling that to just 18 dps going to cause you to skip the spider staff?

To give some insight, I was only upgrading when I felt it was needed. Bee Gear lasted a pretty good while in early-Hardmode, this is with the Bee projectiles being bad. At a certain point, the Minions weren't killing, so I had to upgrade. It wasn't that they were bad, but I'm sure I don't need to explain what happens if enemies are left alive too long on Master Mode.

On the other hand, let's pretend I was a numbers guy; Hornets being buffed to do around 18 DPS would put them in about the same tier as Imp Minions, correct? That'd mean that the Imp Minions would also need to be buffed and I'd assume they'd do around 36 DPS +fire debuff. I'm only pretending to be a numbers guy, but pre-Hardmode Minions that inflict 36 damage, per Minion, in early-Hardmode seems a bit excessive. I could easily reck Twins with five Imps (180 potential passive damage + whatever I'm using)...

 

[qwerty3.14]

On the other hand, let's pretend I was a numbers guy; Hornets being buffed to do around 18 DPS would put them in about the same tier as Imp Minions, correct? That'd mean that the Imp Minions would also need to be buffed and I'd assume they'd do around 36 DPS +fire debuff. I'm only pretending to be a numbers guy, but pre-Hardmode Minions that inflict 36 damage, per Minion, in early-Hardmode seems a bit excessive. I could easily reck Twins with five Imps (180 potential passive damage + whatever I'm using)...

Imps do a bit more damage than bees but the also attack a bit slower, and since they pierce they often cancel each other's attacks which means that right now they're pretty comparable to the hornets. I don't think molten should be a straight upgrade to the bee gear just look at the bee's knees which can vastly out perform the molten fury thanks to the bee arrows. Not to mention its more difficult to kill queen bee than it is to mine hellstone.

My Ideal imp and hornet would be say 20 damage for the hornet, 23 damage for the imp and make the imp fireballs use local iFrames. The hornet would do a bit more single target dps since it's faster, while the imp can pierce.

Since the hornet attacks once per second it would have 20 dps
Since the imp attacks 0.8(on average) times per second it would do 18.4 dps
The spider attacks 2 times per second so it has 52dps.